tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post7337816968519696751..comments2024-01-02T04:15:58.292-06:00Comments on The Coldheartedtruth: Here's a thought about the Google Manifest dude.. C.H. Truthhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07424696045921160961noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-35578129323044706182017-08-12T22:06:58.119-05:002017-08-12T22:06:58.119-05:00CH, I presented you with three of his claims from ...<b>CH, I presented you with three of his claims from his first page, quoted them, and told you that there is not only no scientific evidence, but that no modern psychologist or neuroscientist accepts them.</b><br /><br />Sorry. But you are just flat out wrong. In fact, it would be hard to even be any more wrong. <br /><br /><b>Your reluctance to find a single specific quote or opinion to substantiate these affirmative claims proves it.</b><br /><br />I have provided several specific quotes from a variety of scientists on this thread. Again, WP... you are just flat out wrong. <br /><br /> <br />C.H. Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424696045921160961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-64075176723013696682017-08-12T22:00:35.977-05:002017-08-12T22:00:35.977-05:00CH, I presented you with three of his claims from ...CH, I presented you with three of his claims from his first page, quoted them, and told you that there is not only no scientific evidence, but that no modern psychologist or neuroscientist accepts them.<br /><br />You argue with vague generalities about differences in brains, differences in hormones, your assumption of different roles in 10,000 BC, and so on, and in not a single sentence have you even attempted to show that any of those generalities and differences demonstrate - or even support - those claims.<br /><br />I'm not "the only one" in this case. My "opinion" here represents the vast majority of neuroscientists and psychologists. You are very much out on an island with this, arguing points not in question and pretending significance that isn't there. Your reluctance to find a single specific quote or opinion to substantiate these affirmative claims proves it.wphamiltonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-30638590562771385402017-08-12T21:52:42.045-05:002017-08-12T21:52:42.045-05:00WP - I provided quotes from neuroscientists, behav...<b>WP - I provided quotes from neuroscientists, behavioral pychologists, and others who actually stated very specifically that Damore's statements regarding the science were accurate. </b><br /><br />I don't see that at all. I'm not sure that you understand what they were saying, and how it relates, or actually doesn't relate, to Damore's claims. Which are almost universally rejected.wphamiltonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-49741632340536050742017-08-12T14:53:54.224-05:002017-08-12T14:53:54.224-05:00I'd be curious who read the actual memo Damore...I'd be curious who read the actual memo Damore wrote:<br /><br />https://medium.com/@Cernovich/full-james-damore-memo-uncensored-memo-with-charts-and-cites-339f3d2d05f<br /><br />and who read the one being circulated that removed the charts and links.<br /><br /><br />I didn't realize until today that his memo was being circulated specifically without including the charts and links that he actually used. Presumably to make it look less like an serious paper, and more like a opinionated rant.<br />C.H. Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424696045921160961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-58160036913160277542017-08-12T09:13:55.337-05:002017-08-12T09:13:55.337-05:00So the real question to ask yourself... is what is...So the real question to ask yourself... is what is the "best" thing for society in all of this. There seems to be a fairly demanding argument on the left for a need to blur the gender differences, and do whatever we can to create (at least the illusion of) sameness.<br /><br />This feels like an attempt to simply ignore scientific differences for purposes of an ideology... and I am not sure that it really serves any greater purpose. We certainly do not seem to be a more cohesive and happy society since we have started to reject the notion that there is anything healthy or helpful regarding gender differences. <br /><br />I wonder how healthy it would be to teach children that gender differences are some sort of myth, and how healthy it would be to live in a society (like the google world) where you can be punished for believing something that is scientifically true... simply because it doesn't correlate with what we "want" to teach. <br />C.H. Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424696045921160961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-53987178502830243792017-08-12T09:02:27.893-05:002017-08-12T09:02:27.893-05:00But if you are asking for "my opinion" (...But if you are asking for "my opinion" (or even if you are not) - the science shows that there are inherent differences between men and women in multiple ways. Biologically, genetically, hormonal, and neurological. <br /><br />These differences create certain natural male and female traits that (if you believe in evolution) likely have been strengthened over time because they fit a need. <br /><br />This probably leads to the tradition and social aspects of gender roles, which probably further strengthens the neurological differences (neuroscience suggests that a neuropathway can be strengthened through use, almost like a muscle, whereas a lack of use can lead to weakening).<br /><br />It would be logical to conclude that stripping away any sense of gender, by only allowing gender neutral activities, gender neutral toys, gender neutral clothing, etc... that you may be able to reduce the differences between the genders to some degree. That over time, as the need for gender specific roles are lessened by technology (do we need males to hunt or fight anymore), it's possible that evolution might narrow the gap somewhat more.<br /><br />But the biological science suggests that blurring these gender lines to the point of some degree of gender "sameness" (deemed by some to be the only true form of equality) is a complete exercise in futility. There are still two sexes, with two different sets of chromosomes, gene patterns, biological bodies, hormones, and neurological strengths and weaknesses. It's simply "unnatural" to assume that we can ever fully expect a completely gender neutral or gender fluid society. C.H. Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424696045921160961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-26161286747987214092017-08-12T08:46:11.574-05:002017-08-12T08:46:11.574-05:00WP - I provided quotes from neuroscientists, behav...WP - I provided quotes from neuroscientists, behavioral pychologists, and others who actually stated very specifically that Damore's statements regarding the science were accurate. <br /><br />Last time I checked, none of them were asked about whether or not they agreed with WP Hamilton's version of this. <br /><br />The only WP Hamilton "opinion" that I am actually disputing here is the "opinion" by WP Hamilton that Damore's entire essay was 100% void of any scientific evidence what-so-ever... An opinion WP Hamilton stressed multiple times... and an opinion clearly rejected by many qualified people who have read Damore's paper. <br /><br /><br />But hey, WP... while neuroscientists, biologists and clinical psychologists might disagree with you, at the very least you have the intellectual backing of Opie and James. <br />C.H. Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424696045921160961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-85747634964953895072017-08-12T08:03:37.518-05:002017-08-12T08:03:37.518-05:00appear to be at odds with the opinions of real neu... appear to be at odds with the opinions of real neuroscientists and behavior psychologists who pretty much all believe that Damore's essay was scientifically accurate. <br /><br /> WP Isn't it special that you too are the recipient of CH speaking for you! Typical of those who can't defend their tenet. Simple question seems to have drawn the typical crickets chirping.......Good job!!!opienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-83427886914789611572017-08-12T07:33:49.443-05:002017-08-12T07:33:49.443-05:00Where does social engineering come into it, in thi...Where does social engineering come into it, in this google rant and firing? What Google policy is it that you believe is social engineering?<br />____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________<br /><br />in the affirmative action of their hiring practices and their prosecution of thought crimes.<br /><br />both pursue a desired outcome.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-10194894729294958722017-08-11T22:15:54.987-05:002017-08-11T22:15:54.987-05:00Secondly, in any of the examples you've cited,...Secondly, in any of the examples you've cited, do you believe that the authors of those quotes are trying to reprise the old nature vs nurture argument in neuroscience? Or do you believe they should be interpreted in the modern context which holds that these traits evolve over time with the individual, shaped simultaneously by both genetic and environmental factors?<br /><br />Simple question: which is it?wphamiltonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-23924403602669107542017-08-11T18:58:18.347-05:002017-08-11T18:58:18.347-05:00I don't know precisely what it is that you bel...I don't know precisely what it is that you believe "real neuroscientists" are saying that disagrees with me, but I'm pretty sure that it's not what you think it is. So let's break it down.<br /><br />Do you believe that any neuro-scientist, anywhere, has claimed to be able to predict personality trains from an electrical activity map of a brain that has no trauma or other pathology? Simple question, yes or no.wphamiltonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-11509252161506269072017-08-11T17:05:16.565-05:002017-08-11T17:05:16.565-05:00WP -
Well your cursory opinions appear to be at ...WP - <br /><br />Well your cursory opinions appear to be at odds with the opinions of real neuroscientists and behavior psychologists who pretty much all believe that Damore's essay was scientifically accurate. <br /><br />But I guess they are just not quite as educated on the subjects as you are... or perhaps they did not read Damore's essay quite as closely as you did?C.H. Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424696045921160961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-7781824008747415882017-08-11T15:58:23.445-05:002017-08-11T15:58:23.445-05:00"Within the field of neuroscience, sex differ..."Within the field of neuroscience, sex differences between women and men—when it comes to brain structure and function and associated differences in personality and occupational preferences—are understood to be true, because the evidence for them (thousands of studies) is strong."<br /><br />You understand that this statement in no way supports the three claims. Right? <br /><br />I did more than a "cursory study" of this btw. More than 3 decades ago, and I've kept up with cursory interest since then.wphamiltonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-87237333466590925312017-08-11T15:52:05.673-05:002017-08-11T15:52:05.673-05:00I think that's the point, Opie...
The point i...<br />I think that's the point, Opie...<br /><br />The point is firmly on the top of your head.....For what its worth, it still is not science, it is anecdotal opinions. Funny how you for the first time believe a bunch of science experts on a nothing news story. The same type of people back GW which you ignore by your naive, the models are wrong. I have not said any of the findings are wrong. I do maintain it ain't science in spit of you thinking it is. BTW, I really have no dog in the discussion other than the scientific method which this has not been part of your or the google BS. Maybe when the trial results are published and reviewed, I might care. But a times opinion writer is still not a credible source for science. BTW, all your quotes are opinions. Thanx for taking the time out to once again prove nothing. opienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-11665983866865863372017-08-11T15:26:02.381-05:002017-08-11T15:26:02.381-05:00Since earning his bachelor’s degree and Ph.D. in p...Since earning his bachelor’s degree and Ph.D. in personality psychology from the University of Michigan <b>David P. Schmitt</b> has authored or co-authored more than 50 peer-reviewed articles and book chapters.<br /><br />Quote:<br /><br />"I think it’s really important to discuss this topic scientifically, keeping an open mind and using informed skepticism when evaluating claims about evidence. In the case of personality traits, evidence that men and women may have different average levels of certain traits is rather strong. For instance, sex differences in negative emotionality are universal across cultures; developmentally emerge across all cultures at exactly the same time; are linked to diagnosed (not just self-reported) mental health issues; appear rooted in sex differences in neurology, gene activation, and hormones; are larger in more gender egalitarian nations; and so forth"<br />C.H. Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424696045921160961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-91989079162700166052017-08-11T15:16:57.198-05:002017-08-11T15:16:57.198-05:00Read it this morning. You have a point?
Lee Jussi...<b>Read it this morning. You have a point?</b><br /><br /><b>Lee Jussim</b> is a professor of social psychology at Rutgers University:<br /><br />Quote: "The author of the Google essay on issues related to diversity gets nearly all of the science and its implications exactly right."<br /><br /><b>Geoffrey Miller</b> is an evolutionary psychology professor at University of New Mexico:<br /><br />Quote: "For what it’s worth, I think that almost all of the Google memo’s empirical claims are scientifically accurate. Moreover, they are stated quite carefully and dispassionately."<br /><br /><b>Debra W Soh</b> is a Toronto based science writer who has a PhD in sexual neuroscience from the University of York<br /><br />Quote: "As a woman who’s worked in academia and within STEM, I didn’t find the memo offensive or sexist in the least. I found it to be a well thought out document, asking for greater tolerance for differences in opinion, and treating people as individuals instead of based on group membership."<br /><br /><br /><br />I think that's the point, Opie... C.H. Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424696045921160961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-62250632471514537202017-08-11T15:12:37.922-05:002017-08-11T15:12:37.922-05:00Again, CH, I find it amazing you have now become a...<b>Again, CH, I find it amazing you have now become an expert concerning the sexes. </b><br /><br />I just have the curiosity level to do simple research.<br /><br />As pointed out over and over... I make no argument as to whether or not Damore is correct with everything he states, just that what he states (despite WP's dubious claims otherwise) are backed by scientific studies (good, bad, or indifferent). <br /><br />In fact, WP is pretty much the only person I have seen who is making the argument that Damore is citing wild opinion with zero scientific evidence. <br /><br />Most of the educated people that read his memo/manifesto/essay either claim that his science is correct, or they claim he is relying too heavily on science that is considered "controversial", or that he is overstating his claims. But most everyone (other than apparently WP) understands that he has an actual working knowledge of this stuff and has done his research.<br /><br />As one female neuroscientist suggested:<br /><br /><i>Within the field of neuroscience, sex differences between women and men—when it comes to brain structure and function and associated differences in personality and occupational preferences—are understood to be true, because the evidence for them (thousands of studies) is strong. This is not information that’s considered controversial or up for debate; if you tried to argue otherwise, or for purely social influences, you’d be laughed at.</i><br /><br />Bottom line is that James Damore is a person with a Masters of Biology from Harvard, who obviously has put a great deal of research into the subject matter at hand. <br /><br />WP is a Tech expert who has stubbornly refused to do even the slightest bit of cursory research on the subject, apparently to bolster his claim that he does not see a "shred of scientific evidence". A claim that is much easier to make when you refuse to look into it. C.H. Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424696045921160961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-3151406913159986802017-08-11T15:10:20.219-05:002017-08-11T15:10:20.219-05:00C.H. Truth said...
I think WP, Opie, and James sho...C.H. Truth said...<br />I think WP, Opie, and James should read this:<br /><br />Read it this morning. You have a point?opienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-55266851587139788802017-08-11T15:08:18.878-05:002017-08-11T15:08:18.878-05:00The fact that you don't believe that there are...The fact that you don't believe that there are any scientific studies regarding male vs female assertiveness/aggressiveness as it's tied to biology (and testosterone)... is absolutely mind boggling.<br /><br />Studies involving both assertiveness and social anxiety measures are sparse. Those that are available have mostly been used to evaluate applications of what is already assumed to be a negative correlational relationship between assertiveness and social anxiety with other points of behavioral, affective, or cognitive interest. For example, one such study used the FNE and the RAS to evaluate the differing results of skills training or cognitive-behavioral therapy. The researchers found that neither type of behavioral help was more beneficial than the other (Hammen, Jacobs, Mayol, & Cochran, 1980). Other studies have found a negative correlation between dating competence and assertiveness when compared to social anxiety levels and a negative correlation between social anxiety and inferiority when compared to assertiveness. (Leisure-Lester, 2001; Paterson, Green, Basson & Ross, 2002).<br /><br />http://www.kon.org/urc/v6/moore.html FWIWopienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-73583993517582584272017-08-11T14:55:56.345-05:002017-08-11T14:55:56.345-05:00I think WP, Opie, and James should read this:
htt...I think WP, Opie, and James should read this:<br /><br />https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/11/opinion/sundar-pichai-google-memo-diversity.htmlC.H. Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424696045921160961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-90542870250094371692017-08-11T14:53:08.383-05:002017-08-11T14:53:08.383-05:00Again, CH, I find it amazing you have now become a...Again, CH, I find it amazing you have now become an expert concerning the sexes. You really should spend more time with your new lady instead of trying to convince me, wp and james how smart you really aren't.. Note again, you are posting opinions, not science...opienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-54648950298372068382017-08-11T12:28:50.587-05:002017-08-11T12:28:50.587-05:00James...
You understand that the reason why biolo...James...<br /><br />You understand that the reason why biologists and neurologists are studying the differences has nothing to do with "teaching" little girls that they are inferior.<br /><br />Most of the research is trying to figure out why certain physical diseases are more prominent to certain sexes, and why there are even neurological differences. Understanding why (for instance) Alzheimer's disease effects women and men differently, could be the key to actually curing the disease. This would be why it is important to study the differences in brain activity between men and women. Yes, this will also perhaps reinforce some of the "stereotypes" if said studies confirm those "stereotypes". But science is science. <br /><br />If we simply demand that biologists and neurologists who study these differences are heretics because they don't observe liberal political dogma... and we discount and confront them at every turn... what good does that do for society? Do we stop trying to make medical advancements, because we may find out things that disrupt your political goals?? <br /><br />C.H. Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424696045921160961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-51780181534277396962017-08-11T11:43:59.684-05:002017-08-11T11:43:59.684-05:00Let's start teaching little girls in school ho...Let's start teaching little girls in school how inferior they are in oh so many ways.Disgusted with Ch, Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-2638249436087230012017-08-11T11:41:14.003-05:002017-08-11T11:41:14.003-05:00btw... specific to your wording to the first:
htt...btw... specific to your wording to the first:<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathizing%E2%80%93systemizing_theory <br /><br />There appears to be several references to several studies starting in 1998 on your specific wording (or his specific wording).<br /><br /> C.H. Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424696045921160961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548360050548401665.post-29310592810769246242017-08-11T11:34:12.223-05:002017-08-11T11:34:12.223-05:00WP... it's obvious that you refuse to actually...WP... it's obvious that you refuse to actually look into this yourself. Because if you did, you wouldn't make silly arguments that take about 2 minutes to prove wrong. <br /><br />The fact that you don't believe that there are any scientific studies regarding male vs female assertiveness/aggressiveness as it's tied to biology (and testosterone)... is absolutely mind boggling.<br /><br />_____<br /><br /><br />Lastly... do you DENY that statistics show that women are diagnosed and treated for depression considerably more often than Men, and in the cases of your more milder form of temporary depressions (usually stemming from situational events) is 2-3 times higher? <br /><br />(hint - anyone reading this thread can do a search and find these statistics)<br />C.H. Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424696045921160961noreply@blogger.com