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Monday, March 6, 2017

A quick recap of events

So the question everyone is asking is whether or not there is any truth to the claims that the former Department of Justice asked for or asked for and received a FICA warrant to monitor communications in Trump Tower during the height of the election season.


Let's start with one clarification to the situation. While President Trump may have brought a large amount of attention to the issue, there is little reason to believe that the President himself either has any specific insider information or that he simply pulled something out of his anus. This appears to be be little more than the President repeating claims made by a select number of media outlets that such a FICA order was granted.

While I would certainly argue that it doesn't appear very Presidential to simply repeat rumors on a twitter feed that has over twenty six million followers, the days of political restraint on such subjects may be a lost cause. After all, there is probably less evidence of Trump/Russia collusion than there is evidence of a Trump Tower wiretap. But this doesn't stop every other Democrat in the Country from getting in front of a microphone and accusing the sitting President of criminal espionage. Senator Al Franken actually found a reason to bring up the debunked Russian golden shower Prostitute dossier in a Senate Confirmation hearing, which brought us to a possible new low in casual debunked scandal dropping.

So, for me the fake outrage over Trump repeating such allegations falls on deaf ears.

What we know: 
  • Heat Street, McClatchy, BBC, and Guardian are some of the media outlets who have reported on either the rejected June FICA request for a warrant, the granted October FISA request, or both. All are citing unnamed sources within the intelligence community. 
  • Guardian, NY Times, and others have reported on intercepted communications that the intelligence communities have of Donald Trump, Paul Manafort, Carter Page, and Roger Stone. While some could be explained by suggesting that the wiretaps were ordered on the other Parties involved, there are some serious logical issues with that explanation (more on that).
  • With the exception of James Clapper (who denied any personal knowledge of a wiretap on Trump Towers) the other official denials were only in regards to whether or not the former President may have ordered a warrant. The spokesman for the former President could have offered a blunt denial that any such warrant existed, but rather only suggested that any such warrant would not have been ordered by the President. 
From a standpoint of trying to put two and two together, the thing that stands out with all of this are the high levels of leaked information regarding intercepted communications from selected members of the Trump team. The logic dictates two possible scenarios. 
  1. Either the former administration have been monitoring communications of a vast wide range of international people like the Ambassador of Russia, the President of Australia, the President of Mexico, and a wide range of Russian operatives that they were suspicious of. It would also be the case that these particular foreign agents had reason to "only" talk to a selected number of Trump associates. 
  2. They were monitoring those select people from within the Trump team. 
Occam's Razor suggests that when offered differing explanations for the same scenario, that the simplest explanation that offers the least amount of assumptions is likely the correct explanation. The simplest and most independently logical explanation would be explanation two. But quite obviously that's not "proof" by any stretch of the imagination. It's just a logical deduction from what we currently know. 

Either way, at this point moving forward... any information leaked or otherwise reported on any possible connections between Trump and Russia will come with a question as to the means that such information was obtained. It sort of becomes a ironic twist. On one hand, if there was no FICA warrant granted to monitor Trump officials, then how can claim that there is any reason to suspect collusion? On the other, if there really was reason to suspect collusion and you have all of these intercepted communications, how can you deny that Trump players were being monitored?

52 comments:

opie said...

Quick recap of events.. Trump is full of shit!!!!!!! Try again CH.

opie said...

Your entire screed is nothing more than false equivalency, your typical argument of bias. Get over it, He made it up!!! Trump is INSANE!!!!!!!

C.H. Truth said...

Trump is INSANE!!!!!!!

Sure... and so is Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Al Franken, and any other Democrat who pushes the made up argument that there was collusion between Trump and the Russian to "hack of the election". Ahem...

KD, said...

ColdHearthedTruth and Mark Levin are correct.


Mr Rossen was spied upon and so was his family by President Obama.

Thousands of US Citizens were denied basic right of Privacy by Obama when he Ordered the IRS Director Lowest Learner to act against Americans.

The killing of Americans in other Countries
By Obama by use of Drones.

You elected him twice and you knew and you just did not care.

KD, Yuge WIN BY TRUMP said...

CHT you know you won when the best opium has is to crybaby.

The left is NEVER Going to get over the Trump WIN, Never.
SO with that fact well established, bulldozer and slashing and burning is the order of the Day.


KD, said...

US Senators of both Parties and US Congress critter of both parties had their conversations tapped by Obama while they spoke with BiBi and people with in the Israeli government.

Obama spent US Tax dollars to try to over throw that election.

The leftist here, did and said nothing.

Roger Amick said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Roger Amick said...

Ahem.

1: There is no proof that there was any wiretapping as the President has claimed.

2: The outrage should be over the unsubstantiated claims by the President, were based not on anything from within the government of the United States. Mr Trump based his claim entirely, on internet posts by radio talk show host, Mark Levin.

3: There is a legitimate reason, to determine whether or not, the Trump campaign and the government of Russia colluded to influence on the election. Vladimir Putin is not a fan of the United States. His background was as a spy in the KGB of the former USSR. I agree that right now we do not have any public knowledge, if there was cooperation between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. But we have the right to know what Mr. Trump knows and how he got it, if he did coordinate with Vladimir Putin.

4: There is no doubt that Putin wanted to get Mr. Trump elected. He has a deep hatred of Hillary Clinton. As the Secretary of State, Mrs Clinton, she worked to try and defeat the incursions into the Ukraine. Mr, Trump has been almost mute on that issue. What few comments he made, were at least ambiguous. We all know that he has very little knowledge about foreign affairs. Mr. Putin obviously believes that Mr. Trump is "a useful idiot".

Take my advice my friend, and recognized that the President is a clear and present danger to the United States.

rrb said...




hey alky,

your pageviews on the gaslight blog have plummeted to 371.

get to clickin', gin blossom.

KD, Hi OpuimBaked said...

Remember these words from madam asshole Peelosey:
"“We’re talking about addressing the disparity in our country of income, where the wealthy people continue to get wealthier,” Pelosi said in 2010 at a United Steelworkers’ event. “That disparity is not just about wages alone,” she added. “That disparity is about ownership and equity. It’s all about fairness in our country.

She is because of her private businesses that no one believes she should divest herself from , puts her in the top 1 %.

Typical Liberal Elitist

Oh and Remember too, Obama said that same kind of empty headed bullshit.

As he signed a 60 Million dollar book deal.

C.H. Truth said...

Hypocrisy Roger...

If making an allegation without evidence is where we need to focus our outrage... then why are you not outraged with those who are alleging that Trump colluded with the Russian without any evidence.

The former Director of National Intelligence stated this weekend that there was no evidence of collusion between Trump and the Russians. Senator Coons (a Democrat on the Senate intelligence committee) and Senator Cotton (a Republican on the Senate intelligence committee) both stated that they had seen no evidence of collusion.

No evidence "in spite" of the fact that there has been multiple investigations ongoing regarding the subject.

____

Meanwhile... if you demand that it continues to be investigated, because the allegations seem grave, and therefor the gravity of the situation requires it. Then how can you not apply the exact same logic to demand we investigate what wiretapping and interceptions were being used by the former Administration, who seemed to listen in on a disproportionate amount of communications of Three or Four people associated with Donald Trump?

I don't see how possible American collusion with a foreign agent hacking a political campaign email server is any more important than possible misuse of wiretapping and communication intercepts by our intelligence communities.

C.H. Truth said...

Bottom line:

You either investigate all of these claims... in spite of no evidence that any of the claims are true.

Or you investigate "none" claims... because there is no evidence that the claims are true.


But Sorry Roger. You don't get to pretend that one baseless claim deserves multiple investigations (because those claims are against Trump) but that other claims should not be investigated (because those claims are against the former administration).

KD, Protect and Defend the US Constitution for the enemy within (known as Obama) said...

Trump Just Signed a New More Restrictive Travel Ban on Terrorist nations.

""We cannot compromise our nation's security by allowing visitors entry when their own governments are unable or unwilling to provide the information we need to vet them responsibly, or when those governments actively support terrorism." Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday. "


Liberals, get out you little black book and GO JUDGE SHOPPING.

It is a great day in the US to be Conservative with a Conservative President and their nada you Liberals can do about it but be bitch slapped.

Oh, noticed the dems gave up and put up the white blouse of surrender on the rest of the Trump Nominations.

rrb said...

But Sorry Roger. You don't get to pretend that one baseless claim deserves multiple investigations (because those claims are against Trump) but that other claims should not be investigated (because those claims are against the former administration).
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


that's one of my favorite things about liberals -

if they didn't have double standards, they wouldn't have any standards at all.

rrb said...



"If you're in IRS and have a certain president's tax return that you'd like to leak, my address is: NYT, 620 Eighth Ave, NY NY 10018." —New York Times' Nicholas Kristof



why do i have the sudden urge to buy a pallet of dirt cheap copy paper, label the boxes with the IRS logo, and have it delivered to this asshole?


Roger Amick said...

Hypocrisy on steroids.

I don't see how possible American collusion with a foreign agent hacking a political campaign email server is any more important than possible misuse of wiretapping and communication intercepts by our intelligence communities.

The only proof is Mark Levin.

Commonsense said...

According to this same intelligence sources who leaked the investigation there was "no evidence of collusion".

So it begs the question, if there is no evidence of collusion or improper contacts why is this still a story if not to politically sabotage the new administration?

rrb said...

I don't see how possible American collusion with a foreign agent hacking a political campaign email server is any more important than possible misuse of wiretapping and communication intercepts by our intelligence communities.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

genius,

the "russia interfered with our election" bullshit has been thoroughly investigated and no evidence has been found. zero, zilch, nada, none.

no matter how hard you look nothing new will be found.

so... exactly how much longer would you like to continue to investigate this? a year? two? i get where you're going with this. you NEED this to overhang the trump administration for a very long time to create a cloud of suspicion that feeds the democrat political meme.

sorry rog. there's nothing there. wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.

ironically, it is quite plausible to believe that 0linsky wiretapped trump. it requires no stretch of the imagination to go there, because that's the kind of asshole your dear leader is. and it could be further speculated that skeets NEEDED granny to be elected to cover up a significant amount of wrongdoing on his part. perhaps that's where this all leads. wouldn't THAT be ironic?

so once again you deploy psychological projection as the thrust of your argument.

find a new schtick. this one's getting a little long in the tooth.

Loretta Russo said...

"The only proof is Mark Levin."

LOL, keep thinking that.

Keep doing what you're doing over and over expecting different results, your liberal tears are delicious drunkard.

Loretta Russo said...

"ironically, it is quite plausible to believe that 0linsky wiretapped trump."

I can see the two-bit community organizer doing MORE than tapping the phones......

rrb said...

I can see the two-bit community organizer doing MORE than tapping the phones.....
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

farsi queen jarret didn't just move into chez 0linsky because he had a spare bedroom for rent.

there's a concerted effort to undermine and sabotage this presidency. that much is obvious to anyone other than the alky.

C.H. Truth said...

The only proof is Mark Levin.

How is that different than Democrats calling for investigations into alleged collusion between Trump and the Russians, which doesn't even include Mark Levin proof.

rrb said...



it's different because mark levin is a reliable bogeyman for the left. when he speaks, they freak. like the sun rising in the east.

they think the mere mention of his name with sneering condescension automatically discredits the guy. on the contrary, levin has more legal chops than any liberal sitting on any court in the land.

rrb said...




fat fuck from flint has 10 point plan to make trump toast again:


https://www.facebook.com/notes/michael-moore/do-these-10-things-and-trump-will-be-toast/10154445808842426



opie said...

How is that different than Democrats calling for investigations into alleged collusion

There was enough contact between his campaign and russians to cause questioning on what was going on. Then having flynn and sessions lie that they never met is another consideration, the other members coming clean after much pushing. . Toss in wikileaks and trumps selling of a major floriduh mansion to a russian fertilizer baron for 100 million. not disclosing his tax returns.... you have lots of interconnected dots that question what was done. OTOH......if obama ordered a wiretap and a warrant was issued.....show us!!! He can't, but it there was a tap, it followed protocol, all donnie has done is reveal a classified investigation. Your premise again is pure Bullshit, CH. Again, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. His track record on voting fraud, obama being kenyan are just the tip of the ice berg when it comes to trumps total bullshit. And that is all you can call it. BS complete BS!!!!!!

C.H. Truth said...

There was enough contact between his campaign and russians to cause questioning on what was going on.

I hate to tell you this, but there are 146 million Russians. Contrary to the popular opinion of misguided liberals, they are not all in election hacking cahoots.

There is no evidence that any Russian that Trump or his campaign met with has anything to do with whoever hacked the DNC and Clinton campaign.

Period.

This has been confirmed by the highest intelligence officials from the previous administration, as well as members of both Parties in the Intelligence committees.

This is a witch hunt, Opie. Something liberals just want to keep in the news. You know it and I know. The problem now is that everything they want to bring up as "evidence" can now be questioned as to how it was obtained.

Roger Amick said...

Republicans introduce ObamaCareLight®

Tax credits that favor the upper income families, that will higher income families. And increased premiums for the lower income families. No funding for Planned Parenthood.

About what I thought.

Roger Amick said...

The witch hunt is the wiretapping claim that Trump lied about.

Every time he's cornered, he lies and you don't give a flying fuck.

Roger Amick said...

Senator John McCain passed documents to the FBI director, James Comey, last month alleging secret contacts between the Trump campaign and Moscow and that Russian intelligence had personally compromising material on the president-elect himself.

The material, which has been seen by the Guardian, is a series of reports on Trump’s relationship with Moscow. They were drawn up by a former western counter-intelligence official, now working as a private consultant. BuzzFeed on Tuesday published the documents, which it said were “unverified and potentially unverifiable”.
What we know – and what's true – about the Trump-Russia dossier
Read more

The Guardian has not been able to confirm the veracity of the documents’ contents, and the Trump team has consistently denied any hidden contacts with the Russian government.

A spokesman for the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, on Wednesday denied Russia has collected compromising information on Trump and dismissed news reports as a “complete fabrication and utter nonsense”. Dmitry Peskov insisted that the Kremlin “does not engage in collecting compromising material”.

Trump’s transition team did not immediately respond to a request for comment, but late on Tuesday, Trump tweeted: “FAKE NEWS – A TOTAL POLITICAL WITCH HUNT!” He made no direct reference to the allegations.

An official in the US administration who spoke to the Guardian described the source who wrote the intelligence report as consistently reliable, meticulous and well-informed, with a reputation for having extensive Russian contacts.

Some of the reports – which are dated from 20 June to 20 October last year – also proved to be prescient, predicting events that happened after they were sent.

One report, dated June 2016, claims that the Kremlin has been cultivating, supporting and assisting Trump for at least five years, with the aim of encouraging “splits and divisions in western alliance”.

Roger Amick said...

The material, which has been seen by the Guardian, is a series of reports on Trump’s relationship with Moscow. They were drawn up by a former western counter-intelligence official, now working as a private consultant. BuzzFeed on Tuesday published the documents, which it said were “unverified and potentially unverifiable”.
What we know – and what's true – about the Trump-Russia dossier.

C.H. Truth said...

Roger - The fake Dossier story is at least two months old now (you may want to check the date of your story). Are you just finding out about this today?

I suppose when you run out of new fake allegations, you just recirculate the old fake allegations. Someone is bound to believe it's believable this time.

Commonsense said...

That's the dossier that has been widely debunked as containing, false, fabricated, and inaccurate information.

I'm amazed you had the nerve to actually repeat that garbage.

Well maybe no so amazed. It just convinces me Trump is right about the coordinated effort to subvert his administration.

Roger Amick said...

This is the shit you believe.

Mark Levin used his Thursday evening show to outline the known steps taken by President Barack Obama’s administration in its last months to undermine Donald Trump’s presidential campaign and, later, his new administration.

Levin called Obama’s effort “police state” tactics, and suggested that Obama’s actions, rather than conspiracy theories about alleged Russian interference in the presidential election to help Trump, should be the target of congressional investigation.

Drawing on sources including the New York Times and the Washington Post, Levin described the case against Obama so far, based on what is already publicly known. The following is an expanded version of that case, including events that Levin did not mention specifically but are important to the overall timeline.

1. June 2016: FISA request. The Obama administration files a request with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA) to monitor communications involving Donald Trump and several advisers. The request, uncharacteristically, is denied.

2. July: Russia joke. Wikileaks releases emails from the Democratic National Committee that show an effort to prevent Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) from winning the presidential nomination. In a press conference, Donald Trump refers to Hillary Clinton’s own missing emails, joking: “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing.” That remark becomes the basis for accusations by Clinton and the media that Trump invited further hacking.

Commonsense said...

Still waiting for you to try to debunk the actual facts in that time line.

You can't, so you dismiss it by calling it shit hoping nobody would notice.

Your crazed dishonesty is quite amusing nowadays.

Indy Voter said...

Just what was it that Trump, Manafort, Flynn, Sessions, and the rest were discussing with the Russians that would have prompted search warrants to be requested?

C.H. Truth said...

Roger

You argue around in circles here.

Unlike you, I am not taking sides. If one baseless allegation is going to be investigated, then both baseless allegations should be investigated.

If it was up to me... we would not be wasting anyone's time on the backwards logic of investigating unfounded allegations in order to find the probable cause to do so.

No judge in the world would provide a criminal warrant to arrest, search, or otherwise question anyone about a alleged criminal act without any probable cause. Wild eyed theories and fake dossiers are not probable cause.

They are simply means that politicians use to herd their sheep.

Commonsense said...

Wild eyed theories and fake dossiers are not probable cause.

Actually I could see the Obama administration using this fake dossier in a probable cause affidavit for a FISA warrant.

The bar is lower than it would be for a criminal search warrant. (So low that a FISA court almost never refuses a surveillance warrant.)

In a FISA court, the intelligence agencies don't have to say much more than "trust me".

Commonsense said...

Just what was it that Trump, Manafort, Flynn, Sessions, and the rest were discussing with the Russians that would have prompted search warrants to be requested?

Whatever it was Indy, it wasn't collusion, improper, or illegal.

That's what we learned from the leaks.

Roger Amick said...

It looks like we are going to suffer though four years of "The President Apprentice"©®

When someone or something makes him angry, we will get a Tweet Storm of lies and gross exaggerated and insults. The worst thing about it, is those who have a level four Trumpism, will write 500 word diatribes, that will excuse him, and worse, blame the Democrats who dare question his qualifications for the job.

Bet on it.

Roger Amick said...

You are taking sides. Indy called you on that, and you bounced in circles, as you avoided the Coldheartedtruth.

C.H. Truth said...

Roger.

On one hand... you would like to continue to investigate something that has been investigated going back to the Obama administration. Technically we are five months into this Russian Hacking investigation...

and there is currently ZERO evidence of any collusion.


But on the other, you want to completely discount allegations BEFORE they have even been investigated.

____

Are you really not smart enough to understand the hypocrisy of this? I thought you were a genius? Has Trump really made you that stupid?

Roger Amick said...

Trump used this, and this alone, to make the Tweetident into a Constitutional crisis.

This is what Trump believes. We have a prior administration, Barack Obama and his surrogates, who were supporting Hillary Clinton and their party, the Democratic party, who were using the instrurmentalities of the federal government, intelligence activities to surveillance members of the the Trump campaign. Mark Levin.

But what do you say? Nothing, but you demand a special prosecutor to investigate the alleged wiretapping. Why?? He's got ?

But there you go.

Roger Amick said...

You want a special prosecutor to look into the alleged wiretapping, based on?? This!

We have a prior administration, Barack Obama and his surrogates, who were supporting Hillary Clinton and their party, the Democratic party, who were using the instrurmentalities of the federal government, intelligence activities to surveillance members of the the Trump campaign. Mark Levin.

Good God.

Roger Amick said...

I have to ask this question.

From what we have seen, not just in the last six weeks, this long list of truly irrational things the man has said.

1: Birther nonsense.
2: Said Ted Cruz's father was part of the assassination of JFK.
3: The nonsense over the weekend.
4: “An ‘extremely credible source’ has called my office and told me that Barack Obama’s birth certificate is a fraud” public comments.
5: “I will build a great wall – and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me – and I’ll build them very inexpensively. I will build a great, great wall on our southern border, and I will make Mexico pay for that wall.
6: “All of the women on The Apprentice flirted with me – consciously or unconsciously. That’s to be expected.”
7: I can grab a pussy because I'm rich.
8: “I’ve said if Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her.”


Without even trying, I can show you things many more.

You didn't vote for him, but if any Democrat said anything like that, you would be in full blown outrage. But Trump is oh well, at least he isn't a Democrat.

You have not posted a single one, calling him wrong. NOT ONE!

Grow the fuck up.

I'm done for today, I can't go on, I'm wasting my time.

Roger Amick said...

Republican Sens. Rob Portman, Shelley Moore Capito, Cory Gardner, and Lisa Murkowski will not support the replacement for Obama Care. Others are on edge too.

Roger Amick said...

I think that in the next few weeks, we will see Republicans coming out with carefully written comments questioning the mental health issues,in regards to Donald Trump.

Why doesn't he provide his birth certificate?

Obama was the architect of ISIS.
His Twitter flood with accusations that came from Mark Levin

This is frighteningly possible that he's totally insane.

Commonsense said...

I think in the next few weeks we'll see you get the help you so desperately need.

Loretta Russo said...

"I'm done for today, I can't go on,"

Obviously not.

LOL.

caliphate4vr said...

Roger envisions himself as some modern day Paul Revere, when in fact he's just a hysterical douchbag

rrb said...

I'm done for today, I can't go on, I'm wasting my time.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


i'm thinking nurse ratchet showed up and it's time for your lithium.

you've completely lost it alky.

opie said...

The idiot trump again tweets another lie about Gitmo releases he attributed to Obama. Immediately debunked!!!!! But pauline et al attack roger instead of the source of all the BS, trump. But, those blinded by the light, will never see the truth. This is circling the drain and going down quickly. LOLOLOL. Time will not make this go away as you all pray for.


http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/guantanamo/article136873178.html

Loretta Russo said...

“I had a union job for 30 years. We had collectively bargained contracts that promised us a pension. I paid into it with every paycheck. Everyone told us, ‘Don’t worry, you have a union job, your pension is guaranteed.’ Well, so much for that.”

http://www.nilrr.org/2017/03/06/teamsters-pension-bust-leaves-4000-retirees-edge-financial-disaster/