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Sunday, March 5, 2017

Those who understand Donald Trump take him seriously

but not literally. Those who don't understand, take him literally but not seriously... 


Trump drives people to stupidity 
I first heard this literal vs serious statement during the election campaign, and thought it to be some clever rhetoric. But using this statement as my guide, and applying it to situations that arise, it's becomes pretty apparent that the statement is oft-repeated for a reason. The current firestorm over the President's early morning tweets regarding the possible wiretapping of Trump Towers is a glaring example of such. Let's apply judge the concept of "literally but not seriously" to a statements someone might make about former President Obama and see how that turns out:

The Affordable Care Act is Barack Obama's biggest accomplishment.

LBNS: What a stupid thing to say. We all know that Presidents don't create legislation. He didn't write the law, and he was not responsible for passing the law. It was written by Congress and passed by Congress. It wasn't even the same as what Obama promised when he was running. Only an idiot would call it Obamacare.

That would be taking a statement "literally" but not seriously.

But when it comes to claims about Obama (or most any liberals) most other politicians, the media, and the general public took those claims seriously, if not literally. He didn't have to literally write Obamacare, or literally pass Obamacare, and it didn't literally have to be exactly what he campaigned on for people to believe that it was his election win and his influence that led to the passing of the Affordable Care Act.


Imagine if we took the statements "Bush lied us into war" or the "USSC stole the 2000 election" literally but not seriously? Would anyone try to suggest that it was Powell and Cheney who pushed the intelligence (and therefore Bush was not responsible), or demand that robbing an election is impossible in the literal sense?

When the collective members of the American government, media, and general public hear a statement like "Bush lied us into war" they have the functioning ability to understand what about that statement to take seriously and what about that statement to take literally. It seems that if Donald Trump makes a statement, all that cognitive ability is suddenly lost and the American collective can only understand literal statements.

The bottom line is when something happens from within the executive branch (whether it be a national security issue, justice issue, or foreign policy issue) we generally give credit or blame on the President. So taking the President's statement "seriously, but not literally" he is accusing the executive branch of the Government of wiretapping Trump Towers (and accusing Obama of knowing). How do we logically know this? Because the reports that have been surfacing suggest that a wiretap was obtained by the Justice Department, and Trump stated that he just heard. The larger issue is that Trump does quite obviously believe that the wiretapping took place under the knowledge of former President Obama, which ultimately would make him responsible (as the boss). In the eyes of a businessman like Donald Trump, what happens under his charge is going to ultimately be his responsibility. I am sure he holds others (like Obama) to this same standard.

51 comments:

Roger Amick said...

Your claim that the issue is the Russians alleged involvement in the election, is false.

The real and extremely important issue, is the mental instability of Donald Trump.

You are dancing in circles, to avoid the reality that President Trump is "a clear and present danger" to the country. He sees things that do not exist. I respect your intelligence, and your ability to write opinions expressing your beliefs. But this is much more than the day to day political discourse.

You have been defending the President, despite the irrational and impulsive behavior of the President. Take a step back and put that grey matter to work and consider the evidence that his behavior is dangerous. I'm not doing this for partisan politics. I'm seriously troubled by his behavior. He is dangerous, beyond a reasonable doubt.

KD said...

The Average American struggling after the "8 lost years" is looking for ways to make more money, invest and pay down debt to give their kids a paid for College Degree and to live life better then in the last 8 years.

Trump Effect has raised expectations , employment and Investments IN the USA.

The Election turned on ONE Single ISSUE, Trump gave hope to those that have not had a voice to those that Hillary silenced with her "Despicable" comment, she was talking to every voter.

Liberals are you over two things, are you over Trump Winning and are you over hating the American Voter/

C.H. Truth said...

Your claim that the issue is the Russians alleged involvement in the election, is false.

Roger - not even sure what that statement means?

There appeared to be some evidence that the Russians hacked the DNC and Clinton campaign email servers. There is also evidence that they attempted but failed to hack the RNC and Trump campaign servers.

- There is no evidence that the Russians or anyone else hacked the "election" which would mean that they were able to manipulate voting totals, hack into voting machines, or something of that nature.

- There is also zero evidence that any hacking of the DNC or Clinton campaign had anything to do with the Trump campaign, or that the Trump campaign in any manner shape or form "aided" any hacking of the DNC or Clinton campaign.

Yet, those claims sit out there, almost unchallenged... along with demands that these claims warrant "investigations" in spite of no actual probable cause. These are fantasies, made up by liberals who hate the fact Trump won the election, and they demand that they be taken seriously.

Yet, when someone makes an allegation that the Trump Towers were wire tapped during the election, something that has multiple sources (and has not been actually specifically denied by anyone from the Previous administration)... you want to take issue with the "allegation itself" and demand that it should not have been made, or that there is something inherently wrong with making the claim... while simultaneously demanding that without any evidence that there is no reason to look into it?

C.H. Truth said...

If the claims are true Roger... and the Justice Department to the FICA courts and got a warrant to wire tap Trump Towers. Intentionally left out Trump's name in their request (so that they could get the tap). Then that would be a serious breach of conduct. Likely criminal.

But your only concern at this point "seems to be" what may or may not be going on behind the scenes with Donald Trump and his advisers... something that is completely irrelevant to anything in the real world.

Get a grip Roger.

opie said...


Get a grip Roger.

LOLOLOL!!!!! You keep saying you need evidence to convince you.....What evidence do you have Obama ordered a wire tapp .......??? Game...set match!!!!!

C.H. Truth said...

Opie...

I have as much evidence of a Trump Tower wiretap as you have of Trump/Russian collusion. Which is to say both of us are working under allegations (without any real proof proof).

So I believe at this point that both stories should be covered the same.

Due process is something guaranteed to us as Americans. Nobody gets to search or seize without due process. Nobody gets to demand people testify without due process. None of this gets done without probable cause.

As it stands... there is not probable cause to either investigate the allegations of Trump colluding with the Russians, or the allegations that Trump Towers was wiretapped.

With one major difference.

Whether or not there was a FICA warrant issued is a simple matter of checking. Someone with security clearance can look into this and make the determination. If there was no warrant, then Trump should apologize and move on. If there was, then there needs to be a full scale investigations as to how and why this took place.

As far as Trump Russian collusion... there is no simple task available to prove or disprove the allegations. Without the ability to prove an allegation it remains just that... an allegation. A judge would never issue an arrest, search or any other type of warrant over an allegation that comes with no proof. Therefore there is no reasonable probable cause at this point. So an investigation (while I am sure there will be one) is unwarranted.

KD said...

Yet, when someone makes an allegation that the Trump Towers were wire tapped during the election, something that has multiple sources (and has not been actually specifically denied by anyone from the Previous administration)... you want to take issue with the "allegation itself" and demand that it should not have been made, or that there is something inherently wrong with making the claim... while simultaneously demanding that without any evidence that there is no reason to look into it?"

Be kind to poor financially damaged HB, he is under a lot of stress at home, attempting to explain why he lost so much money in the US Stock Market when he invested on Nov. 9th, on the guidance of his trusted buddy Paul Krugman. They believed under a President Trump the US Economy would nose dive taking the US Stock Markets with it, the reverse is true, he lost his bet , never will he learn , NEVER beat agains the US Workers.

US Economy might recover from the "8 lost years", it may take Trump 8 years to fix it, it was left to him in such a mess.

But, as a businessman/woman we know how to build it, fix it and get it running correctly, that is what all voters want, PROSPERITY is back in style, welcome to the revolution .

KS, AFL-CIO loving Trump said...

. If there was no warrant"

Then all Obama black Operation director did was break the law and act outside of the rights with in his office.

Liberals- Exactly what are the criminal charges against Trump, other then he WON?

KD, Dems keep being Defeated in US Senate said...

The Dems are eating more smelling shit today as all their paid for protesters and all night sit in have had exactly zero ROI.

Why they fought so hard against a black man to head HUD, is beyond me, was he too, "the wrong kind of Nig**"

"The president now has all but two of his Cabinet picks confirmed. Former Georgia Governor Sunny Perdue is awaiting a hearing to lead the Department of Agriculture, and Alexander Acosta to bethe secretary of labor"

Roger Amick said...

A day after President Donald Trump accused former President Barack Obama of wiretapping his communications during the late stages of the 2016 presidential campaign, White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Sunday that neither Trump nor any White House official will be commenting further on the matter.

The White House is trying to limit the damage to the President

Roger Amick said...

The President cannot order wiretapping.

Roger Amick said...

I can see that you are blind to the reason for this wiretapping claim.

It is designed by President Trump to distract public attention on the investigation of Russian interference, perhaps in conjunction with the Trump campaign. As of now, we have not seen anything that supports that claim. But Mr Trump is designed attention.

The rational reason for this distraction, is that they may have actually acted in conjunction with the Russian government.. You are buying into this strategy, for reasons that are unclear or just partisan.

Hook, line and sinker.

Roger Amick said...

here was no warrant,

The only "evidence other than claims made by Mark Levin on Breightbart.


C.H. Truth said...

The President cannot order wiretapping.

No, but he can ask his A.G. to go to a FICA court to get a warrant.

Again Roger... are you trying to be stupid on purpose?

You have been wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, and more wrong about Trump. Yet you act as if you have it all figured out. The entire concept of my post was to suggest that for those of you who continue to be wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and more wrong about Trump...

Is because you have lost all ability to see past the literal.

The truth is, that if there was a FICA warrant, it had to go through the Justice Department. Nobody would be going to a FICA court to bug Trump Towers without the A.G. and presumably the President in the know.

You can continue to pretend you are too stupid to see past the literal. Or perhaps it just is that you are too stupid to see past the literal?

opie said...



I have as much evidence of a Trump Tower wiretap as you have of Trump/Russian

IOW's you got shit.....btw....where did I claim anything about trump collusion? As to the collusion, I'l wait for the investigations do their thing, not a second before. You and the tweets are the ones talking about it. Once again, you convolute the argument, typical of the weak minded right that is now defending the BS. The Potus cannot order wire tap......PERIOD!!!!!!! Laughable that you, trump, and that huckabee spawn, do not know that.

Loretta Russo said...

"You can continue to pretend you are too stupid to see past the literal."

He isn't pretending, and neither is the crack head loon.

Loretta Russo said...

""I've been in that court and I became a lifelong critic of it -- I've litigated FISA cases since then. The standard is very, very low. Applications are rarely if ever turned down. Literally, only a couple of applications have been turned down in the history of that law because it was written largely to evade the Fourth Amendment protection." - Jonathan Turley

Roger Amick said...

You have no credible evidence that President Obama requested his Attorney General, to get a warrant in the FICA court. Unless you believe Mark Levin, then you have zero credibility.

caliphate4vr said...

Due process is something guaranteed to us as Americans. Nobody gets to search or seize without due process. Nobody gets to demand people testify without due process.

Ah Cold, that was before the light worker. Now Americans can be drone zapped without due process, media personalities can be spied on without due process....

Myballs said...

The fact remains, the NSA had Trump's calls to the Presidents of Australia and Mexico. Those two leaders were not targets. That means that they were tapping Trump.

Whyand who Knew about it.

opie said...


The fact remains, the NSA had Trump's calls to the Presidents of Australia


Really a fact????? I imagine that is probably wrong, but , I am sure the WH has the tape they made.

Myballs said...

Yes a fact you idiot. Have you been under a rock?

Commonsense said...

Congress is going to investigate Obama's wiretaps.

James said...

We will soon know the truth says Rubio. Good.

James said...

I guess Commonsense meant wiretapps.

Roger Amick said...

Lets Take a Reality Break.

FBI Director James B. Comey asked the Justice Department this weekend to issue a statement refuting President Trump’s claim that President Barack Obama ordered a wiretap of Trump’s phones before the election, according a U.S. official, but the department has not done so.

Comey made the request on Saturday after Trump accused Obama on Twitter of having his “‘wires tapped’ in Trump Tower."

The revelation, first reported by the New York Times, underscores the fraught nature of the FBI’s high-profile investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 election. A key question fueling the probe is whether Trump associates colluded with Russian officials to help Trump win.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/03/05/trump-seeks-congressional-probe-into-politically-motivated-investigation-during-2016-campaign/?utm_term=.538d00a404d1

Roger Amick said...

Another report by the enemy of the people.

FBI asked Justice Department to refute Trump's wiretapping claim
Shimon Prokupecz

By Shimon Prokupecz, CNN

Updated 6:55 PM ET, Sun March 5, 2017

(CNN)The FBI asked the Justice Department on Saturday to refute President Donald Trump's assertion that President Barack Obama ordered the wiretapping of Trump's phones last year, two sources with knowledge of the situation told CNN.
The FBI made the request because such wiretapping would be illegal, since the President cannot just order the eavesdropping of a U.S. citizen's phones, the sources said. The sources would not say who was involved in the conversations between the FBI and DOJ.

So far, the Justice Department has not said anything in reaction to Trump's tweets on Saturday, in which he made the wiretapping allegations.
Asked about the FBI request, a Justice Department spokesman said he had no comment. The FBI refused comment as well.

The New York Times first reported that the FBI asked the Justice Department to refute Trump's wiretapping claim.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/05/politics/fbi-justice-wiretapping-claim/

I would love to see a live feed of Mr Trump on Air Force One today. All reports claim that they have never seen him so angry. He's a mental case

Myballs said...

Here's another reality break. Mukasey says he was tapped.

And maybe you think it was the Australians and Mexicans that tapped those trump calls.

Roger Amick said...

I wonder how much longer Coney will have his job.

Sorry folks..... but the man you support is out of his fucking mind.

C.H. Truth said...

You have no credible evidence that President Obama requested his Attorney General, to get a warrant in the FICA court.

Nope... and there is no credible evidence that Trump colluded with Russia. There is no credible evidence that Jeff Sessions had anything but the same meeting with the Russian Ambassador than he did with over two dozen other foreign Ambassadors in 2016. There is no credible evidence that Trump hired Russian Prostitutes for golden shower activities.

I guess the day everyone is willing to drop all the nonsense is the day we can all decide to move forward. But as long as we are investigating things like unfounded allegations of Espionage against the President, we can certainly find the time to make a determination if there was a Warrant obtained to wiretap Trump Towers.

Btw... only one of us here actually believes that Trump's own cabinet will use an article of the constitution to relieve the President of his duties. That, my friend... is the craziest allegation of them all.

James said...

Still No GOP Consensus on Obamacare Replacement

Contrary to the claims of GOP leaders, Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME) told CBS News that not all Republicans are on the same page on Obamacare replacement.

Said Collins: “There is not a consensus. This is very difficult to achieve the president’s goals and the goals that many of us have of wanting to expand access to coverage and have a damper on the prices.”
________________

David Nather: “All of the focus lately has been on the difficulty of getting conservative House Republicans to vote for the emerging GOP bill — but Collins’ comments are a reminder that the Senate will be an even tougher sell, for moderates as well as conservatives.”
________________

The simple fact is that if you come up with something that works, it will be shot down by your hardcore right in favor of something that will not work.

What a lot of incompetents up there in among the hoity toity Republicans.

James said...

Trump Remains Upset with His Senior Staff

President Trump “is extremely frustrated with his senior staff and communications team for allowing the firestorm surrounding Attorney General Jeff Sessions to steal his thunder in the wake of his address to Congress,” sources tell CNN.

Said one source: “Nobody has seen him that upset.”

“Trump is upset because he doesn’t believe he is getting the credit he thinks he deserves for his time in office so far because of self-inflicted wounds and missteps… The President’s mood is adding to tremendous pressure inside the West Wing and aides have been seen in tears in recent days at multiple meetings.”

The New York Times reports Trump was also frustrated by the Sunday talk shows and felt people didn’t defend him strongly enough on his claim that former President Obama wiretapped his phones during the campaign.
_________________

Oh poor widdle Donald. He is stupid enough to fire off tweets that have his own staff cringing because they know they can't be backed up and then gets upset because they won't go out on a dangerous limb to defend him.

"...aides have been seen in tears in recent days at multiple meetings.”

What a bunch of incompetents, and the ones who aren't incompetent are in tears.

James said...

HERE'S THE REALITY BREAK CH WAS CALLING FOR:
______________

Lawmakers stunned, baffled by Trump’s wiretap allegations
____

The White House, meanwhile, is pushing for a probe of the Obama administration.
____

Congressional Republicans were flummoxed Sunday by President Donald Trump's and his White House’s continued assertions — provided without evidence — that President Barack Obama had wiretapped Trump Tower during the 2016 presidential campaign.

A day after Trump made the charge, Hill Republicans were largely mute, and those who spoke out were perplexed at the source of Trump’s information, which the White House has yet to disclose.

Sen. Marco Rubio said Sunday he had seen “no evidence” to back up Trump’s wiretap claims. Rubio is a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, which is investigating Trump’s ties to Russia and has received classified briefings on the issue.

“I'd imagine the president and the White House in the days to come will outline further what was behind that accusation,” the Florida Republican said on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” “The president put that out there, and now the White House will have to answer as to exactly what he was referring to.”

Rubio’s comments came a day after Nebraska GOP Sen. Ben Sasse, a longtime Trump critic, said Trump owed it to the public to share more details about his allegation. Other Republican lawmakers who have clashed with Trump made similar demands for more information.

“It would be more helpful if he turned over to the intelligence committee any evidence that he has,” said Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine), a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, on CBS' "Face the Nation."
______________

Yep. A little actual evidence could go along way here.

Roger Amick said...

The FBI was shocked by Mr Trump's tweets. They were accusing the FBI to be a co con conspirator with President Obama.

This is the firs time that a President charging his predecessor with a crime.

You are unwilling to remove your support of Kr Trump, despite how crazy Mr.Trump is acting in an irresponsible manner. And you call ME crazy. The 25th amendment was written to deal with a President cannot conduct the requirements of the office. Lets get real. He is impulsive, harbors deep anger and irresponsible behavior.

cowardly king obama said...


POP, pop, POP, POP, pop, POP, pop, POP, pop, POP, POP, pop, POP, pop..

ROFLMAO !!!!

95 more months of this !

C.H. Truth said...

This is the firs time that a President charging his predecessor with a crime.

Yet, it doesn't seem to bother you that most every Democrat is STILL accusing the Sitting President of a crime in spite of multiple investigations into the allegations coming back with absolutely zero evidence that it was true.

Myballs said...

Trump's charge now has the same dems and media who have spent tge last month pointing to wiretap evidence now walking that back, admitting that there really is no evidence.

Loretta Russo said...

Spam by the fired faux pastor.

Roger Amick said...

Obama is not the one responsible for the investigation of the Russian hacking of our election. And like I have said, this whole thing is an attempt to draw attention away from the investigation of the campaign's possible involvement. There is nothing we have seen yet, but think about this.

Seven or so of his campaign members had contact with the Russian ambassador to the United States. Google the guy, he's a very intelligent and a spy and who speaks for Putin. Now of course, they didn't conspire to rig the election, but maybe they did. It looks a lot like they have something to hide, and by creating this distraction is a way to stall or end the investigation.

Yes we have the right to know what they did, and who did it. Or if not. You tend to give them excuses, but we have the right to know what they did and who knows it. Mr. Trump>. did he know, do you? If you think you do, that's crazy.

Commonsense said...

Obama is not the one responsible for the investigation of the Russian hacking of our election.

Was he not president?

Roger Amick said...

I just learned that Trump robbed a bank. And I have exactly as much evidence for that claim as Trump does that Obama tapped his phone.

Roger Amick said...

The investigation was not directed by the President. He did not order it done. Pure and simple, you don't know how the system works. Was it possible that he told the Secretary of Justice, but no one makes that claim. Until you did, Menstra.

Commonsense said...

Well I know there is no such thing as a secretary of justice.

And I'll bet you when he ordered the Attorney General to look into it he certainly didn't leave a paper trail.

The only diffrence between Nixon and Obama was that Nixon didn't have a FISA court to give his political wiretapping the veneer of legitimacy.

Roger Amick said...

Just wait. My error on the DOJ was me in a hurry.

Donald Trump shouldn’t have tweeted his morning missives to paranoia, as he has announced to the world that he is being spied on and the news won’t be good. While he was trying to cast aspersions on former President Obama, Trump managed to cut off his nose to spite his face because he focused attention on why the government would be spying on him.

A FISA warrant, or Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrant, is a judicial warrant that has to be applied for.

A FISA warrant must certify that the “target of the proposed surveillance is either a ‘foreign power’ or ‘the agent of a foreign power’ and, in the case of a U.S. citizen or resident alien, that the target may be involved in the commission of a crime.”

This is the warrant that was reportedly (and disputably) given to counter intelligence agents so they had ability to cover those in Donald Trump’s campaign who had ties to Russia.

House Intelligence Committee member Rep. Jim Himes (D-CT) explained that Trump might have declassified a warrant against his own people with his tweet. Rep. Himes said, “Talking about a particular warrant, the existence of a warrant is something you simply don’t do. So when I wake up this morning and find that the President is tweeting about it. Mind you, he is the ultimate declassification authority, and if he just declassified the existence of a FISA warrant on his people.”

The Federal Judicial Center explained:

“Warrant applications under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act are drafted by attorneys in the General Counsel’s Office at the National Security Agency at the request of an officer of one of the federal intelligence agencies. Each application must contain the Attorney General’s certification that the target of the proposed surveillance is either a ‘foreign power’ or ‘the agent of a foreign power’ and, in the case of a U.S. citizen or resident alien, that the target may be involved in the commission of a crime.”

Heat Street reported that the FBI was granted a FISA warrant in October of 2016 to cover the activities of “‘U.S. persons’ in Donald Trump’s campaign with ties to Russia.”http://www.fjc.gov

The confirmation of a FISA warrant will be denied because that’s the nature of intelligence work. So it’s up to time to reveal if there was a FISA warrant issued, but people in the know seem to think there is.

If there wasn’t a FISA warrant issued already, Trump’s tweets just admitted that there should be. So the question is, the warrant would need to have certified that the person or people are foreign powers or agents of.

By tweeting without thinking, Trump may have declassified a warrant and brought down his entire presidency.



Tweet May Get Trump Impeached As President Declassified FISA Warrant On His Own People.

http://www.politicususa.com/2017/03/04/fisa-warrant-include-cert-target-foreign-power-agent-foreign-power.html

Commonsense said...

For all we know Lynch's DOJ attorneys use the now largely debunked and discredited Trump dossier to get the FISA warrants. It's a pretty low bar of probable cause we it comes to that court.

Which is necessary for national security but is ripe for abuse in the hands of an unscrupulous politician like Obama.

Nixon would have love having to FISA courts around to justify the break in at Watergate.

And as we have found out from the leaks. "There was no evidence of collusion, improper or illegal communications between Trump associates and the Russians."

Which begs the question, how would they know unless they wiretapped Trump Tower.

rrb said...

Roger Amick said...
The investigation was not directed by the President. He did not order it done.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

no shit, genius.

the president does not direct. he does not order. he requests. and then the AG takes it from there.

the fact that you asshats rushed immediately to a game of semantics indicates that there is a 'there' there. and knowing 0linsky and his penchant for wiretapping everyone from merkel to netanyahu to american citizens, the thought of him pulling this shit on trump is not some vague impossibility but rather a distinct probability.

KD, said...

I am currently reading Art of the Deal.

Really good read 45 pages into it.

Maybe those that lost in stunning style should read it , seeing he is going to be the President for the next 8 years.

Yes, 2020 landslide.

KD, No one was to know about the Lynch?Clinton Meeting said...

AG Lynch Meeting with Bill Clinton is having a spot light shown on it.

That was a strategy meeting on how she was to proceed against Trump.

opie said...

Paranoia strikes deep.....into your heart it will creep.....starts when you are always afraid......

From Buffalo Springfield, a long generation ago.....and applies to trump who stepped heavily on his crank. His girls on the shows were scary in their lack of defense of the donald.

C.H. Truth said...

Paranoia strikes deep.....into your heart it will creep.....starts when you are always afraid......

I agree... all this talk of Russian hacking and Trump collusion is just paranoia. It just begs the question as to how far this paranoia made certain people go?

opie said...

all this talk of Russian hacking and Trump collusion is just paranoia\

Keep rationalizing.....the russian collusion is out there for all to see.....his tax returns will answer his ties to russia. How far will you go keeping your eyes closed to his lorettaesque behavior and BS lies. Millions of illegal votes....obama not a citizen.....my inauguration was huge......the continuing BS you believe. LOLOL Unhinged you are CH.