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Tuesday, June 27, 2017

Here is the reality folks...

ACA is creating a world of medical haves and medical have-nots... and the longer it goes on, the worse this situation becomes. The only question I have is given that the implicit goals of ACA are the very the reasons why this phenomenon is happening... was this somehow the plan or did the Democrats simply not think this thing through.

Let's recap:

  • Democrats have always favored a government run single payer. Medicaid provides such an option of such a government run insurance.
  • The ACA does everything in it's power to eliminate low cost health insurance by putting mandatory requirements on what health insurance must cover. Even the lowest level bronze plan can be out of range for a low income earner.
  • The Medicaid expansion is clearly designed to fill that gap, creating an explicit manner to move people off private insurance and unto the government run Medicaid. 

So far so good? Would anyone disagree that the ultimate goal here would be to move as many low income people as possible off private insurance and into Medicaid?

So why is this a problem? Simple... because depending on which medical survey you read, somewhere between a third and half of doctors are no longer taking Medicaid patients and a large chunk of other doctors are no longer taking "new" Medicaid patients. The reasons are simple. To keep costs low, Medicaid generally underpays significantly what private insurance pays, and requires doctors and hospitals to write off a significant portion of the bill. In other words, they make less money (significantly less money) treating a Medicaid patient. Now most doctors have been willing to take on a certain amount of Medicaid patients, but quite obviously there becomes a limit.

So just because you add more people to the Medicaid rolls, doesn't necessarily mean that there will be enough doctors to treat them. We are already seeing a doctor shortage with Medicaid participants, and the doctors that do see them are obviously not always the top of the line. You may end up at teaching hospitals, working with interns, first year residents, and others who have not otherwise established a client base. Worse yet, is that many times it is hard to find a high level specialist, if you end up needing higher level health services.

Meanwhile, for those who can afford private health insurance, they can see pretty much any doctor that is in their network. No doctor will turn away a patient because they have private health insurance. Not only do they understand that they will be paid (most of what they bill) through insurance, they know they can bill the patient for what is left over and generally receive payment.

Now the kicker in all of this is that this damages the Medicaid program for those who it was originally designed to help. Those who had expensive long term medical needs who did not have the means to pay for it. Now they suffer with the doctor shortages and lack of quality care, because Democrats decided to expand Medicaid into a form of single payer for the poor.

I tend to believe that things like this are done with the best of intentions. Like many other things that had to do with the ACA law, it doesn't appear that it was well thought out.

130 comments:

Roger Amick said...

. Some of it makes sense but let's think about it. There are ways to do this that will not lead 22 million more people without insurance. From the number of percentage of people without insurance will increase dramatically under the Senate Law. The bottom line that is not fair to the people and you know that. You can talk about the ideology all you want but we need Solutions and they neither side is doing very well on it they're not. But the Republican way is the one who's going to toss millions of Americans under the so-called open fair market is going to help them it will not and you know that.

New Ama AARP and almost any other advocates for older Americans is strongly opposed to this. The reduction of Medicaid just not fair the worst people are the one that's going to need the help are not going to get it. This is not fixed the problem.

No it's six Republican Senators will not even let this come to a vote at this as McConnell wants us to do. And if they had up and down vote today on the whole thing it would fail right now badly and you know that.

I hear that the president is calling the Senators but they're not scared of him. What is popularity hanging 40% or less he has no power over them he had none. Not only that the more moderate Republicans understand it is not fair to take 22 million more people and put them up basically out on the goddamn Street.

opie said...

I'm waiting for someone who has a modicum of intellect to explain in detail how wonderful the Senate plan is and how it will benefit the US and the people. My guess, no one can, all you have is repeal which is painfully obvious you cannot. Next, tax breaks for the elite which excludes all the sycophants here. LOLOLOLOL

Roger Amick said...

The ACA has some basic faults. But rather than fix the problems the president is obsessed with repeating anything to do with the legacy of Barack Obama. That Oddball obsession which helped him get elected in in the red States especially is not the best way to handle the problem Nationwide.
Neither the senate or house version will pass, there are just too many problems as the people get more exposed to the holiday weekend and look at this and say this just ain't right. Look at the polls you'll know I'm right.

Medicare have saved my life. Millions of other Americans have the same thing. I paid in over 45 years I will get more out of it than I put in but that's insurance and the way it works.
Something hardly ever mentioned in this that is a massive tax cut for the upper income. While the devastation of Medicaid will leave the less well-off on the street.

caliphate4vr said...

. Some of it makes sense but let's think about it. There are ways to do this that will not lead 22 million more people without insurance

Freedom really pisses off donks, those 22 million would be ELECTING to be out of, on their own free will.

And let them suffer the consequences

Try to come up with something besides a talking point, for once

opie said...

ACA is creating a world of medical haves and medical have-nots..

The funny thing is CH, you all now own health care in its entirety and can't get out of your own way. It is amusing to watch your spin and excuses, but the bottom line is after 7 years of repeal and replace, you cannot come up with a plan as donald promised would be the best thing since condoms and maintain medicare and medicaid bennies. The only thing you have exposed is the total dysfunction in DC and that no one has the market on fixing what needs to be fixed, only giving tax breaks to the health care industry and himself. Wake up sycophants, elections do have ramifications. LOLOLOL

opie said...

, those 22 million would be ELECTING to be out of, on their own free will.

Nice of you to be speaking for those 22 million people. LOL

caliphate4vr said...

More than half of food stamp recipients in twenty-one Georgia counties have been dropped from the program due to state instituted work requirements.

According to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, state figures reveal that 11,770 people considered able-bodied without children were required to find work by April 1 to continue receiving food stamps.


Watch out CH the last time we cracked down on the mooching class the Somali's left for Maine and Minnesota. You may get another influx

Roger Amick said...

Governors from both Republican Democrat states are coming out right now against the Senate bill.

opie said...

More sycophants should have this type of wake up calls. My guess rat hole who is close to retirement, probably self employed, will be the one who trump care costs the most. Oh well, enjoy the suck!!!!

Former GOP Rep. Jolly: Affordable Care Act gave me a ‘safety net’
Gabby Kaufman 58 minutes ago

Republican David Jolly during a candidate forum in February 2014.
Republican David Jolly during a candidate forum in February 2014. (Photo: Brian Blanco/Reuters)
While members of his party scramble to repeal the Affordable Care Act, former Rep. David Jolly, R-Fla., praised it as a “safety net” for unemployed people with pre-existing conditions — as he recently was.

Appearing on MSNBC’s “The Last Word With Lawrence O’Donnell” Monday, Jolly alluded to the backlash against the House and Senate health care bills, saying “the politics of Obamacare in 2017 are different than 2013.” Jolly ran on an anti-Affordable Care Act platform, winning a special election in 2014 before losing his seat in 2016.

“On January 4, I was a former member of Congress, unemployed, with no health insurance, and a pre-existing condition,” Jolly, who is 44, said. “And while I ultimately chose a private sector plan, I also knew in 2017, Obamacare provided an exchange that was a safety net that wasn’t there before. And to be honest with you, if I had had to rely on it, I knew it was there.

“That’s why the politics of Obamacare in 2017 are different than 2013,” he continued. “I lost my doctor, and I lost my plan in 2013, and I was angry about Obamacare, and I ran for Congress. But in 2017, as an unemployed perso

C.H. Truth said...

Roger...

Medicare and Medicaid are two entirely different creatures... one is technically self funded (much like Social Security). You pay into it, and then you reap the benefits later in life.

While the other (Medicaid) is a low income entitlement. Not sure that someone with your medical condition would have been accepted if they only had Medicaid to pay for it.

opie said...

More than half of food stamp recipients in twenty-one Georgia counties have been dropped from the program due to state instituted work requirements.

Good, saving the state money because able bodied people got jobs. What a novel concept applicable to those who found work. Wonder how many were actually looking for work and finally found it to be able to get off snap. Something that was not reported on which is germane to the good news. LOL

Myballs said...

Project Veritas now has cnn executive admitting on video that the network is witch hunting trump.

Fire Zucker.

C.H. Truth said...

Roger - nobody seriously believes that 22 million Americans will lose their insurance. According to most estimates less than half that many Americans have acquired insurance since ACA was established.

The 22 million number is nonsense and everyone knows it.

To tell the truth, I think Trump is right. If the the AHCA doesn't pass, then just sit back and watch Obamacare implode. I wouldn't spend a penny to prop it up anymore. If it doesn't work on it's own after this long, it simply wasn't a very good design.

If the only argument that Democrats want to make is that it's the Republican's fault for not fixing their broken program, then that's a debate I am sure Republicans would be willing to have.

Arguing (as Democrats are doing) that Republicans now "own" Obamacare (named after a Democratic President) is an admission that Obamacare is a failure. An admission that after eight years in office, the only legacy Obama left was a failed healthcare law that requires Republicans to fix.

Is that really your argument?

Roger Amick said...

No. .
The 22 million is not nonsense stop that b*******. The 22 million that's 22 million more than would be lose coverage under the ACA as it is configured today that means a lot of people will not have coverage I mean millions of us and that is not good for us. If they go back to the old system where you have to go to the emergency room and get care the cost of Medicare per person will go through the roof and you know that I'll stop that b******* and let's talk about it and get it right instead of this accusing each other being stupid or ignorant or something like that we're working on something we got to get it done and you can't do it like this you just can't do it this has to be fixed

Roger Amick said...

But the Republicans do not offer anything to fix the problem at all they're making it worse. This is not right they can't continue to do this that is why they're losing support Nationwide. Did you see all the governor's came up today and against it Republicans and Democrats this is not right. We can fix it but we can't just throw rocks at each other and call each other it doesn't work that way. We can't fix it by pointing fingers like you did. I spent a lot of time looking at stuff and reading when I have my spare time between my gym sessions and and other stuff that's very intense the last few weeks last week and I've been reading a lot about it and from both while not from the right why not from alt right okay that's crazy but I'm in looking at it and there's nothing that this with the Senate bill or the house bill is actually going to make the the healthcare system in the United States any better it's not Obamacare but it is better than what we had before and we can fix the problem instead of pointing fingers at each other

caliphate4vr said...

I wouldn't spend a penny to prop it up anymore. If it doesn't work on it's own after this long, it simply wasn't a very good design.

The problem with the left is they believe in their own bullshit. Think Yul Brynner in the 10 Commandments, "So let it be written, so let it be done"?

caliphate4vr said...

The 22 million is not nonsense stop that b*******. The 22 million that's 22 million more than would be lose coverage under the ACA as it is configured today

There are supposed to be 23 million in the exchanges TODAY as Bumblecare is configured TODAY per CBO scoring and you're under 11 million

Roger Amick said...

You don't believe the 22 million people right will you been listening to the Rope White House again why do you listen to it in the white house and use your own goddamn brain it's true stop that you're letting Donald Trump lead you down a path to Danger stupidity and defeat stop this I know there's a little upset but I'm upset by this this is not right what you guys are going to do is put millions of people in danger shorten their lives cost billions of dollars and give the rich people billions of dollars in tax breaks they don't need and it will not improve the economy trickle down economics does not work and you know that so let's get back to work and make something that will work damn it and make it work for all of us not just a few and not just make it look like it our party is better than yours we've got to do that we've got to be better than that we are better than that but you party is worst right now because your present is a f****** nut

opie said...

." If it doesn't work on it's own after this long, it simply wasn't a very good design."

The problem with the left is they believe in their own bullshit

And pauline buys CH bullshit instead....That's a great endorsement of complete and utter bullshitl Too funny even for you Pauline. The irony of CH's statement is that the R plan is a pile of dog crap which only serves the rich who want tax breaks. Idiots.

Roger Amick said...

It's time for breakfast you guys and digest it and figure it out actually think about it and don't follow the the party line on either side I'm not following the party line in the Democratic side personally I like a single player para system but we're not going to get it so I'm realistic and let's move on and make it work you not doing that you're pointing fingers and being calling somebody else stupid. That is not productive it will not fix the problem. I'll catch you later sometime I intense training today and all kinds of stuff so and yes sorry rrb I'm getting better every damn day and you can't stop it they are amazed with my progress period they've never seen anything like my case to come out 3 weeks in a couple days after slicing me from wide open and putting in your living room and doing all this other stuff I am Incredibles condition I'm getting more mobile everyday and it's getting wonderful and in six months I'm already down 290 lb I was 285 lbs before surgery most of that was Liquid so that came out and so I'm a hundred I'm down to 190 lb not 290 I've lost almost 100 pounds in 6 weeks 4 weeks no free weights and whatever since the 3rd of June so sorry I'm going to get I'm getting better every damn day breakfast Roger you guys have a nice time arguing and calling names and each other and not fixing a goddamn thing

opie said...

There are supposed to be 23 million in the exchanges TODAY

And you're supposedly educated.....LOL. Yep, the CBO is completely wrong. Uninsured rate of less than 10% is wrong also? Seems to me it is a pretty successful getting that many people on rolls, which you deem failure. Only idiot salesman who sell insurance think that is a bad. Nice that pauline embraces the loser talking point without thinking, again,

Roger Amick said...

Solution is simple. Do it like we did for the history this country. When we have a problem we work out the problems we make compromises and we get things done to fix the problems. Donald Trump is not making that going to let that happen he is too divisive and in fact I think he's insane and we got to get we got to get past that and get the damn thing system fixed it's not you know Scott. We can fix it together but we cannot let that idiot in the White House Divided the country and farther than it's ever been divided in the history that I my life because of his insane tweets that contradicts himself day after day after day after day after day after day after day and he doesn't continue the day after day after day and you never complain about it you let him do it you get away with it you don't say anything about it you just go supporting you say I'm wrong and he's okay and you're right that's not right breakfast Roger goodbye

caliphate4vr said...

Who did the donks work with to pass this steaming pile of shit?

Who said this?

Elections matter. I won; you lost. Deal with it.

fucking awful when the shoe is on the other foot.

C.H. Truth said...

Roger - I assume you haven't read anything in the CBO report, and likely have ignored anything written about it that is critical?

But let me point out three issues:

1) That the CBO is counting (in the 22 million) people from states where the medicaid expansion has not been accepted... because the CBO assumes that these states will sometime (in the future) accept the medicare expansion. This is one example where they are counting "potential" future coverage as a tangible loss.

2) That the CBO is still clinging to the concept that there will be upwards of 25 million people on the exchanges, and that many of those "potential" future insured will be lost.

3) That the CBO does not count those who will be covered by certain types of insurance as losing coverage, because it does not qualify (under the ACA) as meeting the minimum requirement for insurance.

So the reality is that they are not saying that 22 million people (who are insured today) will lose insurance... they are including both future potential recipients of insurance from ACA as tangible losses, as well as people who will considered themselves to be insured, but not so by CBO standards.

So yes Roger... on those points alone, the 22 million is nonsense.

opie said...

Anonymous caliphate4vr said...
Who did the docks work with to pass this steaming pile of shit?

LOLOLOL>>> you donks now own this aromatic pile of shit, and cannot get out of your own way...Elections do matter as you point out and are immobilized with competing factions. Funny how the irony is lost on simple thinkers like yourself.

opie said...

So yes Roger... on those points alone, the 22 million is nonsense.

In your opinion. In your wise ways, I guess a number of only 10 million would be a lot better. LOL!!!

Loretta said...

"actually think about it and don't follow the the party line" - Roger

LOL! Rich I tell ya.

C.H. Truth said...

Solution is simple. Do it like we did for the history this country. When we have a problem we work out the problems we make compromises and we get things done to fix the problems

You mean like we did when we passed ACA in the first place?

Democrats compromised with other Democrats as well as with their principals to pass Obamacare, without any input from the Republican Party at all?


The reality is that you have to have a fundamentally sound strategy to work with... and unfortunately I am not sure that the basic concept of ACA is a fundamentally sound strategy... for a myriad of reasons, starting and stopping with the fact that heavy handed Government interference rarely (if ever) works out well in our economy.

Loretta said...

"There are supposed to be 23 million in the exchanges TODAY as Bumblecare is configured TODAY per CBO scoring and you're under 11 million"

Oopsie.

wphamilton said...

Medicaid is to be slashed, the people who gained thereby will lose it, and therefore are counted in the numbers of people losing coverage.

Why do our current cadre of Republican congressmen hate poor people?

Roger Amick said...

Ch all that spinning should make you dizzy. I read enough of it not all of it but that isn't accurate number and you know it every other source other than your f****** President says it's true here you go again the party line you stand in line and say yes sir sieg heil that's enough of this b******* think for yourself used to be the cold hearted truth you're not anymore you're just a follower of Donald J Trump this makes no sense you used to be a sensible moderate period not anymore no more dispassionate thought just follow the fucken leader. This is ridiculous

caliphate4vr said...

The reality is that you have to have a fundamentally sound strategy to work with... and unfortunately I am not sure that the basic concept of ACA is a fundamentally sound strategy..

Everything donks said about the law was a lie.. EVERYTHING

California is the latest state to report that emergency room usage is up despite expanding Medicaid eligibility.

Emergency room visits by people on Medi-Cal, the state's Medicaid program, rose 75% over five years from 800,000 in the first quarter of 2012 to 1.4 million in the last quarter of 2016, according to California's Office of Statewide Health Planning and Development.


Loretta said...

"Everything donks said about the law was a lie.. EVERYTHING"

Disgusting sheep.

wphamilton said...

Because the doctors won't see the patients on Medi-Cal. Blame greed in the medical profession, not the insurance law.

Demand exceeds the supply of medical service. The free market will take care of it in time.

C.H. Truth said...

Roger -

I always find it amusing how you never actually dispute my arguments.

You simply demand that it is all somehow a matter of "how many people agree with me" versus "how many people agree with you". When in fact, 99% of those with an opinion haven't read the actual CBO report. I assure you that most who have read the report agree with me. In fact, you don't have to go very far to find this analysis.

Then, Roger... you get all huffy, puffy, and you demand that it's all because somehow I just follow Trump. I can almost see the veins sticking out in your head as you type your tirade!!!


It's actually the only manner in which you argue anything anymore. Proving once again that EVERYTHING with you is about Trump. No matter what. All Trump all the time!

I assure you, that I have not gotten one bit of this argument from Trump or any tweet from Trump or anything to do with Trump.

C.H. Truth said...

What's even more ironic... is that if Nancy Pelosi suggests that 22 million Americans will die... then this is exactly what you will throw up as a post on the legacy blog.

Seems you actually "have" the problem of being the sheep who carries the talking points memo around with you.

C.H. Truth said...

Because the doctors won't see the patients on Medi-Cal. Blame greed in the medical profession, not the insurance law.

Blaming someone doesn't fix the problem. You can't fix "greed". You can only fix the law.

Demand exceeds the supply of medical service. The free market will take care of it in time.

Only if there is money to be made. The problems right now with 50% of the Doctors not taking Medicare patients is exactly the free market at work.

The long term problem is that Doctors will make less money, meaning less people will be willing to go through the extra eight years of school, meaning the problem will only get worse.

But at least while all of this is falling apart, you can blame greed... and stick to your guns on ACA being such a great law.

Roger Amick said...

Reality left this place several months ago.
A quick note on the 22 million to 22 million people. Republican Senators have all stated that the 22 million is something they have to deal with as reality it is real if they are not denying it like you are doing hi. Are you claiming to be more informed than than the Senators that represent you and and others across the country Republicans Democrats and even Independence all site that 22 million and you dispute it what the hell is going on in your mind I have to ask you're a good guy but you seem to have lost it I just don't get it I got lunch to eat another in the gym

caliphate4vr said...

The long term problem is that Doctors will make less money, meaning less people will be willing to go through the extra eight years of school, meaning the problem will only get worse.

We can always do what NHS has done, start importing paki doctors, that eventually load their cars full of petrol and drive them into an airport....

But yeah, its always greed not government over promising and under performing

rrb said...




Everything donks said about the law was a lie.. EVERYTHING
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


limbaugh had a caller today who made an excellent suggestion -

the CBO should score 0linsky-care right now, where it stands in the present day, and hold THAT number up to their projections of the GOP plan.

but they wouldn't dare.



Caliphate4vr said...

What's point? CBO has shit the bed on every healthcare projection they have ever made

Roger Amick said...

I have stayed off the Legacy Legacy blog this is worthless not worth my time. Since you've closed this and to anybody else I have to do it through the responses that's all I can do I can't post a lot of stuff I would like to but I understand at your place and you're getting good numbers you're getting lots of visitors I understand that. With the lack of diverse intelligent opinions sometimes limits the debate you can close everything seems everything off criticize the president.

I look for the White House Press briefings and the press releases tweets by the idiot in the White House and I predicted I did write it down but I predicted more than once you're going to follow Party Line in subtly Time After Time After Time you ignore the law the lies and distortions. You still more worried about some email then idiot that claimed that Obama was in Kenya. And then he claimed they wiretapped his place they did not it was a lie. The crowd size Obsession it wasn't even f****** clothes not clothes. But you don't quit a sizing for that never never you don't criticize Donald J Trump I don't get it my friend I don't get it. I was accused of worshipping Obama I was wrong I said so and I said it often because he did make a lot of mistakes. Nobody is perfect but you seem to think that Donald Trump is perfect he is not. You let everything every Distortion every thing they have to reconnect three different people have to speak different ways around in the pores like spice Spencer and all the people they're going nuts trying to figure out what the hell to say this time.. And now they won't even La cameras into the Press room because that fake media will manipulate it. You believe the minute the fake media the b******* and you better than that you should not be like that you're better than that my friend and you got to stop stop start thinking you got it you're a highly intelligent man. But it is hiding behind this worship or whatever you want to call it I just don't understand it at all.

Of course it's your blog you can just say what you want and argue either way it's your place that's the way it works but sometimes I just have to we've known each other online since 2002 I think it is no hint about 911 now about 2001-2002 that's a long time and seeing you changed so much.

I will see you soon to see I'll quit this line because you just do not you say I'm wrong even if every senator in the house and then them say this 22 million is an accurate number you and Sean Hannity and the president and a couple others are the only ones that just beat that number very few others what you do and you believe it is false it is not false Scott it is not signing off I got to go this is ridiculous. The recording is not always accurate but you can pretty well get one I mean I don't want us to go back and edit stuff but you got you got it you're a good man and a good father and look how you're a good husband I just don't get why you have changed so much behind Donald Trump I just don't get it my friend I just don't get it.

rrb said...

and yes sorry rrb I'm getting better every damn day and you can't stop it
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

alky,

for the very last time...

die tomorrow or live to be 100 - either way i just don't fucking care. that's how little you mean to me. zero. zilch. nothing.

you should however, have a psychiatric evaluation to attempt to learn why my opinion means so much, and why you appear to be consumed with my opinion of whether you live or die. i've never resided inside someone's head to this extent before and i'm just glad you're a full continent away.



truth is, i had you pegged for a fucking whack job since the sores board days. you're irrational, unable to stitch together a coherent thought without copy/paste assistance, and what REALLY ails you cannot be fixed by a donor organ.

what a waste of a perfectly good liver.

.



rrb said...

Caliphate4vr said...
What's point? CBO has shit the bed on every healthcare projection they have ever made
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

well, i suppose i would just be hopeful of an HONEST assessment based upon the fact that it's cratering in the light of day for all to see. at the very least it would probably be, as you suggest, a hilariously partisan joke of an effort.

C.H. Truth said...

Roger -

The CBO projected just a few months ago that 15 million people would sign up for Obamacare in 2017. That number was 10.4 million as of March 31... assuming not everyone pays for the entire year, the actual number at the end of the year will be under 10 million.

The CBO projects that next year (2018) that 18 million people will be signed up on the Obamacare exchanges.

So their projection for this year literally over-projected that actual amount by almost 150%.


So - if you are so impressed with the CBO and believe that they are so accurate, how about a wager? How much will you be willing to bet that they are correct and we will see 18 million people on the exchanges next year??

You are so confident in the CBO - then put your money where your partisan mouth is?

opie said...

The CBO projected just a few months ago that 15 million people would sign up for Obamacare in 2017.

Your whole argument is based on miming the R words that the CBO stinks at the job they do. Wow, talk about not thinking things through let alone proving that the ACA didn't reduce the uninsured by roughly 50%. That seems to be success, but as I asked before, if only 10 million lose insurance, would you consider that a successful bill? In what universe is that good other than R world where only tax breaks count, of which you will not benefit!!! For shitting the bed, someone hitting 500 would be a superstar. Keep digging, when the boys go home for july 4 recess and their R base starts screaming louder than now, only then will you come to your senses and see your bias ain't gonna work anymore. LOLOLOL

opie said...

Why do our current cadre of Republican congressmen hate poor people?

Because they have great bennies getting elected by those who hate the poor like rathole, who thinks poor are just leeches to society. Oh well, stalemate again as the vote is delayed. Wait till those assholes go home and get an earful from their constituents.

opie said...

Anyone from the senate come out and tell us how great the bill is or are they just blaming obamacare failure???? Sad, but ironically funny.

opie said...

Brilliant, the WH now embraces the disgraced James O'Keefe as real. Anyone notice her fake eyelashes were on skewed today,.....She looked ravishing!!!!

Sarah Huckabee Sanders lambastes fake news — and then promotes a journalist accused of deceptive videos

In the span of a few seconds, the deputy White House press secretary attacked the media for inaccuracies and then turned around and urged them to watch a new video from conservative undercover video journalist James O'Keefe, who has been accused of deceptive editing and tactics.

Commonsense said...

She was brilliant.

rrb said...

The CBO projects that next year (2018) that 18 million people will be signed up on the Obamacare exchanges.

So their projection for this year literally over-projected that actual amount by almost 150%.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


doing my best roger impersonation -


"SO? SO WHAT??? What's 18 Million minus 22 Million???

See! Told ya! CBO was right !!!"

opie said...

Changing to a subject I enjoy.....seems sea level is rising faster than predicted....maybe the CBO can do a better job???

Paris (AFP) - Ocean levels rose 50 percent faster in 2014 than in 1993, with meltwater from the Greenland ice sheet now supplying 25 percent of total sea level increase compared with just five percent 20 years earlier, researchers reported Monday.

The findings add to growing concern among scientists that the global watermark is climbing more rapidly than forecast only a few years ago, with potentially devastating consequences.

Hundreds of millions of people around the world live in low-lying deltas that are vulnerable, especially when rising seas are combined with land sinking due to depleted water tables, or a lack of ground-forming silt held back by dams.

Major coastal cities are also threatened, while some small island states are already laying plans for the day their drowning nations will no longer be livable.

"This result is important because the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)" -- the UN science advisory body -- "makes a very conservative projection of total sea level rise by the end of the century," at 60 to 90 centimetres (24 to 35 inches), said Peter Wadhams, a professor of ocean physics at the University of Oxford who did not take part in the research.

That estimate, he added, assumes that the rate at which ocean levels rise will remain constant.

opie said...

Blogger Commonsense said...
She was brilliant.

Especially for a fat, ugly bigot. LOL

Commonsense said...

Ironic that you would call somebody else fat and ugly Opie. ☺

rrb said...

Paris (AFP) - Ocean levels rose 50 percent faster in 2014 than in 1993, with meltwater from the Greenland ice sheet now supplying 25 percent of total sea level increase compared with just five percent 20 years earlier, researchers reported Monday.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


huh.

another thing that 0linsky promised to fix that he fucked up.



opie said...

It's ironic you think she's brilliant...our GED who is in the bottom fifth percentile. LOLOL!!!

opie said...

another thing that 0linsky promised to fix that he fucked up.

Sure he did, rathole. The only fuck up is trump and being a denier. LOL

Commonsense said...

opie said...
It's ironic you think she's brilliant...our GED


It just bugs the shit out of you that I'm smarter than you.

Guess you're just going to have to live with it.

opie said...

It just bugs the shit out of you that I'm smarter than you.

A bag of nickels is smarter than you, asshole.

wphamilton said...

CH Said ...Blaming someone doesn't fix the problem. You can't fix "greed".

If you're allergic to regulation, then that might be true. However, regulations and laws do "fix greed" or prevent the fulmination of greed. Laws against fraud, against predatory practices, against price fixing ... too many examples to name them all here.

But even so, as I noted earlier, the free market will eventually fix it regardless. There is obviously a demand for the services, and if those doctors who are overwhelmed by their greed cannot provide them, then in time there will be doctors and clinics which will. Greed will lose.

It is important to know why because you ARE blaming the ACA for this situation, and "fixing" the ACA by the wealth shift from these people to the wealthy won't help, if it's not the ACA to begin with. I said this when Obamacare was first being designed, and there is no reason to change now: insurance doesn't fix the problem, not until we have real reform in the medical industry. Reforms in prices, drug prices, costs of procedures, philosophy of prevention before treatment, and so on. No matter what the insurance is for anyone, not just these Medi-Cal covered people, if the cost of care is unaffordable it doesn't help them.

Roger Amick said...

Repeal and replace

This has been the primary policy of the Republican Party since the ACA was originally passed. Donald Trump used this as a major part policy point to get elected president. Donald Trump also said "I am not going to cut your Medicare and Medicaid."

Events in the last week of revealed deep divisions within the Republican Party.

President Trump held meeting in the White House last last night and the end result was at least one more Republican said they will not vote for the Senate version, many of the citizens in the state would lose their Medicaid. 22 million Americans would have to find insurance on their own and that is an almost impossible task .

Stories coming out this morning have said that senators were simply amazed. The president had no understanding basic problems of medical insurance. President Trump was unable to persuade any of the Republicans to change their point of view. His increasingly erratic behavior is causing him more problems on a daily basis and in the end the repeal of the ACA is not going to happen.

Because of his low numbers in the polls, Donald Trump is unable to threaten anyone within his own party. Super PAC attacks on opponents to Senate bill has withdrawn their adds.

Electing a non-politician the most powerful political position on the planet is proving to be not a very good idea.

rrb said...

Electing a non-politician the most powerful political position on the planet is proving to be not a very good idea.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


well alky, you might have a point...

except for the fact that trump has been kicking the donks asses seemingly every day.

in fact, i'm still laughing my Ossoff.

now then, why don't you go back to making the most miraculous recovery of a liver transplant in the history of the known universe. maybe you can talk the hospital staff into throwing you a ticker tape parade upon your release.



caliphate4vr said...

It is important to know why because you ARE blaming the ACA for this situation, and "fixing" the ACA by the wealth shift from these people to the wealthy won't help, if it's not the ACA to begin with.

Complete and utter crap, I have stated repeatedly ACA is the greatest tranference of wealth from the middle class to moochers in history. You can't make your claim above without acknowledging my statement is so. ACA was about transference of wealth not healthcare.

I can post numerous Donks saying just as much

C.H. Truth said...

But even so, as I noted earlier, the free market will eventually fix it regardless. There is obviously a demand for the services, and if those doctors who are overwhelmed by their greed cannot provide them, then in time there will be doctors and clinics which will. Greed will lose.

The free market doesn't equalize things out, WP... the free market reacts to what is out there The free market is the reason why you can go to Nordstroms and by a $5000 suit or go to Walmart and by dress pants and coat for $150. Free Market creates the Porche dealer and the Kia dealer.

The free market doesn't require that Nordstroms drop their prices so that they can sell their product to the Walmart shopper anymore than Porche dealership will lower there prices to appeal to the Kia shopper.

When you provide a situation where one person can pay $1000 for a service, while another person can only pay $500 for that same service.... those at the top of the food chain will garner that $1000, while those with less skill, less experience, less reputation will have to settle for the $500.00.

The free market will dictate that those with the means will get the Nordstrom's experience with their healthcare, while those without the means will get the Walmart experience.

When the $500 was the occasional write off for a lower income person, more doctors were willing to take those on. When you literally start to expand that $500 service to make up a significant amount of the business, then that business (like any other situation where some can pay more than others) will start to create a tiered level of service.

caliphate4vr said...

Democrats Just Need to Admit That Obamacare Is a Wealth Transfer

I can post this and similar ad infinitume

caliphate4vr said...

The free market doesn't equalize things out, WP... th

And like it or not medicare Medicaid distorted the market and we can't have a free market

wphamilton said...

The free market doesn't equalize things out, WP... the free market reacts to what is out there

A huge demand for medical services is "out there", which is currently fulfilled by people going to ER because so many doctors won't accept medi-cal patients.

I don't know what you mean by "equalize things out" in this context, but the law of supply and demand operating in a free market will eventually ensure that there are clinics and doctors in California who will cater to those Cali-Care patients. The greed-doctors who refuse may or may not survive with boutique style businesses, but losing that size of a market share generally places businesses at a disadvantage.

rrb said...

There is obviously a demand for the services, and if those doctors who are overwhelmed by their greed cannot provide them, then in time there will be doctors and clinics which will. Greed will lose.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

if only that were the case and it was doctor's "greed" that was the problem. wp, i'm personal friends with a few docs, both family practice gp's and specialists. the resounding theme from all of them when we discuss this topic is that if the government would only get the hell out of the way and stop distorting the market under the guise of "fairness" we'd all be a lot better off. when dollars for care have to be filtered through government, costs are bound to rise. compliance with EMR's is just one example. these guys spend exponentially more time in front of a computer when that time could be better spent treating illness.

there are clinics popping up across the country that work on a cash only basis and treatment is less expensive as a result.

the ACA was born out of a desire for control, not to help the poor. it was a classic "spread the wealth around" scheme, practically a ponzi, because the left was too lazy and intellectually dishonest to tackle head on the issue of how to help the poor. you sound like obama when he chastised docs for performing unnecessary procedures just to line their pockets. it's not that simple and anyone who has direct knowledge of the machinations of direct doctor - patient will tell you.

what we're witnessing with the collapse of the ACA as we know it is simply the law of unintended consequences paying a predictable visit to the net result of liberal "thinking."

it's shame that the GOP had made so many repeated promises to repeal the shitpile. in retrospect, it would've been better for them to remain silent, let it runs it's course and completely collapse under the weight of it's own lies. at that point a repeal effort would've been unnecessary and we could've simply reverted back to the system that 80+% of americans already actually liked.



caliphate4vr said...

Not if you're reembursement rate is below your expenses.

It ain't magic medicaid medicare have been around for 50 years and docs aren't running to this golden payer. And it's not greed

wphamilton said...

Complete and utter crap, I have stated repeatedly ACA is the greatest tranference of wealth from the middle class to moochers in history.

I would say that is an untrue claim. The amount people pay in higher premiums alone is probably a greater transfer of wealth, and it goes the other way.

The Republican plan is a serious attack on the finances of everyone but the wealthy. If the Republicans force through something as widely unpopular as their plans have been, they risk adverse political impacts. Enough GOP Senators realize this that they're unlikely to pass anything until they find a more balanced approach.

wphamilton said...

When a doctor refuses to accept medi-cal patients because he wants to charge higher prices than medi-cal allows, yes that's greed.

opie said...

WP....did this trail yesterday. Trail head is about 3 miles south of Vogel park on the same road. Has a very good parking area for day trippers. Took about 3.5 hours total up and back.....

https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/georgia/neels-gap-to-blood-mountain

caliphate4vr said...

I would say that is an untrue claim.

Well you're wrong for your scenario as stated here

and "fixing" the ACA by the wealth shift from these people to the wealthy won't help,

This wealth shift HAD originally to occure under the ACA. Acknowledge that simple fact. Moving it back isn't a shift unless you agree the original shift occurred under the ACA

rrb said...

Anonymous wphamilton said...
When a doctor refuses to accept medi-cal patients because he wants to charge higher prices than medi-cal allows, yes that's greed.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

no, that's the free market in action. if his cost to provide his service is greater than the medi-cal payment, he/she is losing money. any business, including private medical practice is not long for this world utilizing that economic model.

wp, every time the government engages in price controls it ends badly. health care is no different.

are you playing the classic liberal "healthcare is a basic human right" angle? because that's what it seems like.


caliphate4vr said...

Rat he's trying to argue supply and demand will eventually happen in a market where government sets the price

If that isn't cog-dis nothing is

rrb said...

Anonymous caliphate4vr said...
Rat he's trying to argue supply and demand will eventually happen in a market where government sets the price
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

FDR tried price controls, as did nixon. both failed. why do we continue to repeat the mistakes of the past thinking that they'll actually work "this" time?

there are plenty of doc's out there using the patch adams clinic model. some out of compassion, some out of practicality, and many out of a combination of the two.

a few days ago limbaugh had a caller who was a doc from TN. he and some colleagues set up a network of private clinics and work with anyone based upon their ability to pay. the guy claims to have performed basic physicals including flu shots for as little as $40. the key? government is nowhere to be found in the entire relationship. it's pure doc-patient like it was when we were kids. and it's working like a charm.


C.H. Truth said...

I don't know what you mean by "equalize things out" in this context, but the law of supply and demand operating in a free market will eventually ensure that there are clinics and doctors in California who will cater to those Cali-Care patients.

There may be...

But the reality is that Private Insurance pays more for every single service than does Medicaid. Therefore, the Free Market will eventually assure that there are Clinics and Doctors who are willing to work at the reduced rate..

And make no mistake, WP... the standard has always been what the doctors charge and what insurance pays... the standard is NOT what medicaid chooses to pay. So you have that exactly backwards. It's not greed to expect to be paid what you have always been paid.

So again... according to your own logic, the "free market" will evolve so that there will be two sets of clinics... the ones who cater to those with Private insurance (because they no longer take medicaid)...

and then there will be clinics and doctors that are willing to take the reduced rates of Medicaid patients.


But as "IS" the rule with the free market... you get what you pay for. When you pay 50% of what others are paying for the same type of service, you will not get the same quality of care.


Which is my entire point... which in a round about way you are agreeing with.


Unless you really truly believe that your top echelon doctors will eventually just "choose" to start reducing their own paychecks voluntarily because the Government decided that more people should be on medicaid?



Ultimately people forget that this is harming those who are on Medicaid (not because they make 130% of poverty) - but because they have expensive pre-existing conditions... and now the doctor they were seeing can no longer afford to take medicaid patients as a general rule (because ultimately that could become discriminatory).

wphamilton said...

caliphate4vr said...
Rat he's trying to argue supply and demand will eventually happen in a market where government sets the price


It must have got lost in the translation somewhere - I argued the opposite of that.

Even if the government does nothing in California - no price caps, no reforms, no shafting of the poor with TrumpDontCare, the free market will correct this transient problem of California doctors refusing medi-cal patients. Those who don't adapt will see their practice suffer, probably whining to their GOP congressmen about walmart-style medical practices killing local practices, or something along those lines. Maybe something else, but it will happen because the demand is there.

wphamilton said...

opie, that looks like fun. Thanks for the recomendation.
https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/georgia/neels-gap-to-blood-mountain

wphamilton said...

Medical insurance has already made a two-tier market, it's already distorted. Doctors accept the price that the insurance company allows, as already negotiated, and expect the cash customer to pay double or more. Unless the customer has the wherewithal to negotiate, which in most cases is unlikely. The situation is like a contract of adhesion, which would be unenforceable in other circumstances.

So you might as well accept that the situation you describe already exists, and everyone except those who can hire their own doctors have to live with it.

rrb said...

Those who don't adapt will see their practice suffer, probably whining to their GOP congressmen about walmart-style medical practices killing local practices, or something along those lines.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


i wouldn't bet on it. overhead and compliance costs being what they are, docs i know are more than happy to take that risk. what i can attest to happening through personal experience is a potential doc shortage due to government involvement. a primary care doc friend (whose dad was a surgeon) had a son who initially wanted to continue the family tradition. super smart kid, great grades, etc.. seemed like a no brained.

then the ACA was passed.

he had a ringside seat to all the BS his dad had to go through and after many lengthy family discussions, embarked on a career in food science instead.

i know this is just one example, but it makes me wonder if this isn't a story that will play out around the nation, causing a doc shortage further on down the road.

or to quote milton friedman:

"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."



rrb said...

Doctors accept the price that the insurance company allows, as already negotiated, and expect the cash customer to pay double or more.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


on the contrary, what's more likely to happen is the exact opposite. you walk in cash in hand, you eliminate a mountain of paperwork filing and the corresponding wait it takes the insurance co. to reimburse the doc.insurance co's are horrendous for slow payment, most likely due to the avalanche of ppwk they're required to deal with. cash, check or credit card is instant. and the smart doc will extend a discount for THAT transaction rather than the other way around.

rrb said...

no brained. - no BRAINER

caliphate4vr said...

Medical insurance has already made a two-tier market, it's already distorted. Doctors accept the price that the insurance company allows, as already negotiated, and expect the cash customer to pay double or more

If that were so, you wouldn't have the explosion of boutique doc shops you complained about earlier. They aren't taking insurance nor government reimbursement they are taking cold hard cash all be it on a monthly stipend, but it ain't twice the rate that an insurer was paying them for the same service.

caliphate4vr said...

on the contrary, what's more likely to happen is the exact opposite.

yep

C.H. Truth said...

WP...

Where else does your argument work?

Does the Porche dealership have to reduce their prices in order to garner the lower income folks? Does Nordstroms have to reduce the price of their suits because most people cannot afford a $3000 suit?

Where does this argument work... that when you create a multi-tiered system in terms of ability to pay... that the markets realigns everything down to the lowest common denominator.

Retail, restaurants, real estate, travel, even grocers have a tiered system of service. Those that sell the best merchandise, or have the best chefs working with the highest quality food, or the best builders building the biggest houses in the prime locations... etc, etc, etc... charge more money and generally earn more money.

Why would healthcare be different? You truly believe that there are not enough people with private health insurance to keep doctors and hospitals in the black? Their business will not be harmed because they refuse to take reduced payments from Medicaid patients...

They wouldn't be choosing to do this, if it hurt their business. There is no "eventually" here. You are witnessing the Free Market reaction to this "RIGHT NOW". The refusal to take these patients "IS" the free market reaction, and there is no reason for it to change. Especially not when there is a shortage of doctors, and a potential shortage of medical students.

rrb said...



i'm old enough to remember when lasik eye surgery was priced in the thousands. today you can get it done for a few hundred bucks. as far as i know it was never covered by insurance, so what brought down the price if not for the free market?

caliphate4vr said...

Lasik, boob jobs, face lifts, tummy tucks all have come down because of the free market

James said...

Despite Trump’s Claims, Obamacare Isn’t Collapsing

June 28 Congressional Budget Office: “Although premiums have been rising under current law, most subsidized enrollees purchasing health insurance coverage in the nongroup market are largely insulated from increases in premiums because their out-of-pocket payments for premiums are based on a percentage of their income; the government pays the difference between that percentage and the premiums for a reference plan… Nevertheless, a small number of people live in areas of the country that have limited participation by insurers in the nongroup market under current law.”
__________________

And now let's look t some more delicious headlines from politicalwire.com:

Trump Loses Ground with Independent Voters
Secrecy Backfires on McConnell
Warren Urges Democrats to Back Single-Payer Plan
McConnell Rattles his Ranks
Quote of the Day
Trump Not Even Sure What Health Bill Does
Repealing Obamacare No Longer a GOP Unifier

caliphate4vr said...

“Although premiums have been rising under current law, most subsidized enrollees purchasing health insurance coverage in the nongroup market are largely insulated from increases in premiums because their out-of-pocket payments for premiums are based on a percentage of their income; the government pays the difference between that percentage and the premiums for a reference plan…

Yes the government pays it with unicorn farts and fairy dust. You are an utterly simplistic moron. Just like the used car salesman focusing on the monthly payments not the loan in totality.

James said...

The CBO is a simplistic moron?

rrb said...

Yes the government pays it with unicorn farts and fairy dust.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

didn't the house successfully sue 0linsky for failing to use the constitutional budget process to allocate the funds that bridge that gap?

caliphate4vr said...

They haven't been right yet on a single Bumblecare prediction. Have you been asleep this entire thread?

Where is the money coming from the magical pasture, where unicorns shit skittles and the money tree grows by the river of gold?

Idiot

rrb said...

Blogger James said...
The CBO is a simplistic moron?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

it's starting to look that way seeing as how their 0linsky-care projections were so spectacularly WRONG.

facts are stubborn things, pederast. and the CBO has no familiarity with the facts.

C.H. Truth said...

While the rest of us are having a discussion regarding how the market forces have been and possibly will react to the increase in Medicaid patients...

We get treated to another brainless C&P that proves that whoever pasted it has no ability to engage in the conversation themselves. Just let other people (especially those who are almost exclusively wrong) think for them.


The saddest part is that these people don't understand how dumb they look doing this.

rrb said...




When Bartiromo asked about allegations that the Obama Administration took money from Fannie and Freddie to pay for the implementation of ObamaCare, Mnuchin responded, “It is true. They used the profits of Fannie and Freddie to pay for other parts of the government while they kept taxpayers at risk.”


http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2017/05/01/mnuchin-on-fannie-and-freddie-funds-used-to-pay-for-obamacare-its-true.html


huh.

so THAT'S how the government "pays the difference between that percentage and the premiums for a reference plan…"

teegen goddard left that part OUT.


rrb said...

The saddest part is that these people don't understand how dumb they look doing this.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

and ol' rog hasn't even awoken from HIS drug induced coma yet today.

James said...

facts are stubborn things, pederast

LOL
Here's a stubborn fact, coward.
You won't dare call me "pederast" beneath
a signed statement with your real identity.

James said...

CH said:
The saddest part is that these people don't understand how dumb they look doing this.
_____________

Good ole James says:
Yep, sure is dumb of me to list a number of articles at 9:42 AM
above that you and the others here would rather ignore than answer.

Dumb indeed.

C.H. Truth said...

Here is a question for you James...

I expect a valid answer.


Given that the CBO just months ago projected that 15 million people would currently be on the Obamacare exchanges... and there are just 10.4 million as of March 31st (last day of sign ups)... and there will likely be many who stop paying...


Why would their long range estimates be taken seriously, when they cannot estimate withing a few months anything even near close to reality?


Do you often take the word of people who are consistently wrong?

Jane the boy lover said...

Jane, are you really attempting to chickenhawk the people here, no one here is interested in your fake bravado, hell, we are still waiting on the ACLU Letter you promised to post here, what is the hold up sissy bitch faggot?

KD, Jane is so funny, little blustery nanci faggot said...

Do you often take the word of people who are consistently wrong? "

As a Liberal all the time.

Did you see Nancy Polosi, fuck n A, she has Hillary Syndrome, she is lost in a daze, confused and slurring as she talks, making ever less sense.

James said...

I guess the answer would in part have to be

first, missing an estimate by less than one third is not as bad as missing it by more

second, if the CBO is so stupidly inaccurate, why do so many Republican politicians impatiently await it before deciding what stance they will take with the voters?

but the real question is,
-----------Why can't McConnell get the votes?

caliphate4vr said...

first, missing an estimate by less than one third is not as bad as missing it by more

ummm, 15 million is 50% larger than 10 million

idiot

KD said...

ol' rog hasn't even awoken from HIS drug induced coma yet today. "


He has spent nearly 1 million dollars of OPM to save his life, his wife has bilk Medicaid too, so more like 1.25 million and all he has to say is "they pay their own way in life"

Such humor, so stupid.

KD, Jane all talk , zerO action just like Obimbo the man lover said...

What a stupid liberal looks like doing math


Jane

"
first, missing an estimate by less than one third is not as bad as missing it by more"


Alky "42,810 days sober "

Cali called him out on that math drunk error.





James said...

but the real question is,
-----------Why can't McConnell get the votes?

And the real answer?

"... just 12% of of Americans approve of the Senate Republican health care plan."

C.H. Truth said...

James...

You do realize that there is a difference between "Math" and politics?

or do you?????

The CBO numbers shouldn't matter at all as a matter of policy? Would a private organization ever look to an outside source that gets the same issues so consistently wrong over and over and over?

of course not... if the CBO was a private organization working in the private sector they would have gone out of business. Nobody would hire them.


But as a matter of politics... you know that the Democrats will bash the 22 million over the head of anyone who votes for it. Doesn't matter if the number is correct or not.

Most people are as dumb as you when it comes to their politics. If someone on their side of the aisle says something, they believe it to be true. Doesn't matter if it's the CBO who can't predict what's going to happen a few months from now, or if it is CNN reporting something with another unnamed source.

People like you are sheep. You believe everthing.

So it matters politically.

James said...

No, Ch, I don't believe "everthing."
Nor do I believe everything.

For example, I don't believe
Cali's or KD's math that 5 is 50% of 15.

Instead, I believe that both politics and math are important.
But I admit, politics is more important--
--more important that just 12% of Americans approve the Senate health care bill.

Which surely is why McConnell can't get the votes.

Commonsense said...

For example, I don't believe
Cali's or KD's math that 5 is 50% of 15.


5 million is 1/2 of 10 million as 50% is 1/2 of 100%.

15 million is 1 and 1/2 times 10 million. In other words it is 50% larger than 10 million.

Got math?

C.H. Truth said...

What's funny here James is that your math issues are basically related to your mindset. A funny mindset, but typical of your way of thinking.

In your mind the CBO projection of 15 million is the reality... and the 10 million is somehow the arbitrary variable that measures against the CBO estimate. Therefor, the difference of 5 million is only a third of YOUR reality... which of course was the 15 million that was supposed to sign up.

But the problem with this James... is that 10 million (not the 15 million) is the actual real tangible number.

The 15 million is what they projected. It's not real. Never was. So they did, in fact, project a number that is 150% more than it was in reality.

C.H. Truth said...

James - the fact that you continuously cut and paste other people's opinions and that you actually make the argument that you believe these are relevant to the conversations at hand (in spite of most of them being entirely off the subject)...

Shows that you do actually believe all of these things written by other people to be gospel.

It's why you apparently believe that 15 million people actually signed up for Obamacare (because that CBO wrote that they would) and somehow the official tallies must be off. Because the CBO is the gold standard and never gets anything wrong in Jame's world.

Good old gentle fair minded James said...

Here's an opinion. How true is it?

The Entire Trump Agenda Is Now at Risk

Ryan Lizza: “The GOP has adopted a major—even radical—agenda: transforming a massive sector of the economy, slashing taxes and rewriting the entire tax code, passing a budget that would dramatically reduce the size of government, and, in the middle of all of that, raising the debt limit. They have a plan to accomplish almost all of it before the end of the year, with minimal transparency, and without relying on a single Democratic vote. But if health-care reform goes down this summer, the rest of the plan may sink with it.

“For obscure parliamentary reasons, Republicans can’t move on with the rest of their wish list until they pass the health-care bill. And those prospects are not looking good.”

Concerned for his country, James said...

Study Finds GOP Bill Will Cause 208K Deaths

“The Congressional Budget Office projects that if the Senate Republicans’ health care bill becomes law, 14 million Americans will lose their health insurance in 2018, and, by 2026, 22 million would lose coverage,” Vox reports.

“Drawing on that work, we estimate that if the Senate bill becomes law, 22,900 excess deaths will occur in 2020 — and the figure will grow over time. 26,500 extra deaths will take place in 2026. Over the next decade, we estimate that a total of 208,500 unnecessary deaths will occur if the law is passed.”

Concerned for his country, James said...

Voters Overwhelmingly Reject GOP Health Plan

A new Quinnipiac poll finds just 16% of Americans approve of the Republican health care plan to replace Obamacare, while 58% disapprove.

If a lawmaker votes for the Republican plan, 46% of voters are less likely to support their reelection, with 17% more likely and 33% who say the health care vote won’t matter in their decision.

Said pollster Tim Malloy: “Call it a dressed up retread of the last GOP healthcare plan, or simply a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Americans aren’t buying this latest version of the plan to kill Obamacare. And the dismissal comes with the dire warning: If you vote for this one, you may not be around to vote for the next version.”

rrb said...

Over the next decade, we estimate that a total of 208,500 unnecessary deaths will occur if the law is passed.”
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

only 208,500, pederast?

not bad, pederast.

only about half of the number of abortions in a decade that occur every single year, pederast.

still relying on that CBO number without have the grasp of rudimentary math to interpret it, eh pederast?



rrb said...



the Q poll sampling was D +10.

geezus.

james's dad said...

One in 20 of the nation’s Medicaid recipients lives in Los Angeles County.

How many illegal immigrants ?

How many illegal votes ?

California wants to secede ?

PLEAZE !!!!

ROFLMFAO !!!

Oh, and fuck you and your spam james

opie said...

ummm, 15 million is 50% larger than 10 million

It all depends on your frame of reference, both answers are correct, but the right will insist that it is a horrible miss while the left use it as a reference point. Seems to me only signing up 10 million is a failure based on ideology. Idiots, including CH.

Commonsense said...

Well the failure is based on ideology. But the ideology is liberal and it failed because it didn't take reality into consideration.

caliphate4vr said...

And 8 million had individual insurance preBumblecare, yet their starting point says 10 million enrolled.

Pathetic

Good ole gentle truth-seeking gentle pastor James said...

Why is Rat so afraid to attach his legal name to the "pederast" accusation? :-)

Good ole gentle truth-seeking gentle pastor James said...

THIS IS TOO GOOD NOT TO PUT IT HERE AGAIN.

The Entire Trump Agenda Is Now at Risk

Ryan Lizza: “The GOP has adopted a major—even radical—agenda: transforming a massive sector of the economy, slashing taxes and rewriting the entire tax code, passing a budget that would dramatically reduce the size of government, and, in the middle of all of that, raising the debt limit. They have a plan to accomplish almost all of it before the end of the year, with minimal transparency, and without relying on a single Democratic vote. But if health-care reform goes down this summer, the rest of the plan may sink with it.

“For obscure parliamentary reasons, Republicans can’t move on with the rest of their wish list until they pass the health-care bill. And those prospects are not looking good.”
_______________
You can say that again, Ryan. (Oh, you just did.)

Commonsense said...

Yeah, there's too much winning. I'm concerned.

james's dad said...

“Sarah Huckabee Sanders did the briefing. Sarah Huckabee Sanders, like Trump, is fearless. She cannot be intimidated,” Limbaugh asserted. “And, boy, did they try yesterday. She opened up with a statement about the CNN story that had to be declined, deleted, and canceled, and the three people were fired.”

Then, he slammed CNN’s Jim Acosta, who has taken to TV and Twitter to express his displeasure with the recent off-camera press briefings. Limbaugh compared Acosta to a little kitten that chases around a laser pointer.

“Our old buddy little Jim Acosta who’s chasing the red laser pointer around and bumping into walls and sofas, he tweeted later, ‘This is just unreal. They called on conservatives. They call on conservatives and they won’t call on us. And they call us fake news. Is this America? Is this the Constitution?’ Just losing his mind.”

“The Trump White House owns CNN now,” Limbaugh concluded."

AND I OWN THAT LITTLE COCKSUCKR JAMES

ROFLMFAO !!!

kames's dad said...


* COCKSUCKER

james's dad said...


*james's dad

ROFLMFAO !!!

james's dad said...

THIS IS TOO GOOD NOT TO PUT IT HERE AGAIN:


AND I OWN THAT LITTLE COCKSUCKER JAMES

ROFLMFAO !!!

james's dad said...

Good ole gentle truth-seeking gentle pastor James said...
Why is Rat so afraid to attach his legal name to the "pederast" accusation? :-)
June 28, 2017 at 5:18 PM

Since you asked I'll do it for him:

pastor james boswell - from what james's said that is his legal name

ROFLMFAO !!!

rrb said...



19th Obamacare Co-Op Folds, Leaving Only 4 Operating in 2018

Minuteman Health was awarded $156.4 million in taxpayer-funded loans

http://freebeacon.com/issues/19th-obamacare-co-op-folds-leaving-4-operating-2018/


i love the stench of 0linsky-care in the morning.

smells like... failure.