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Tuesday, July 18, 2017

Riddle me this...

So you are an American investigative reporter, investigator, or busy body who is looking into the inner dealing of a political campaign you feel is corrupt. You have uncovered some information that would likely be of significant relevance to an upcoming election, and would likely sway voters to vote against this particular candidate.

But... you have personally donated the maximum amount of money to the campaign of the opposing candidate to the one you are investigating.

Now if, providing "information" or "dirt" on a political candidate is to be defined as something "of value" - wouldn't be true that you would not be allowed to report on this subject or otherwise make the information public, because you would be presenting "something of value" to the campaign and thus would effectively put yourself over your donation limit?

Considering Federal election laws prohibit someone who has contributed the maximum amount of money to a candidate in one election cycle from giving money "something of value" to someone else to give... that would also preclude you from using any sort of intermediary to get such information out to the campaign. Effectively if "information" was "something of value" then the only legal thing to do would be to keep it to yourself in this particular case.

Lastly: how much... exactly... would this information be worth and who would decide it's worth? What if someone considers it worth more than the $2700 you are allowed to donate to a candidate? Does that information become an automatic violation of campaign donation limits, even if you hadn't donated anything in the past? What if you had $27,000 worth of information that would be beneficial to a campaign, wouldn't you be limited to only providing 10% of said information?
_______

Reality for those trying to argue that information is "something of value".  You cannot argue that it would be "something of value" if it came from a foreign source, unless you are also willing to concede that it's "something of value" for an American who provides the same information. After all, the "something of value" would always be defined as "something of value". Where it came from would not increase or decrease the value.

What a truly frightful concept... that the Government could simply deem "information" to be "something of value" in order to regulate (and criminalize) the release of that information.

But I have a guess here. My guess is that our Courts would offer that the first amendment would prevent "information" as being deemed "something of value" for the purposes of criminalizing the exposure of such information as a violation of campaign finance laws.

Anyone want to argue I am wrong?

32 comments:

opie said...

Anyone want to argue I am wrong?
You and your hypotheticals are always wrong

Commonsense said...

Opie is sure a bundle of fiery intellect today.

Caliphate4vr said...

This should also give pause to Democrats who want to cheer “Obamacare is saved!” Obamacare is now in worse shape than ever. And Obamacare was not exactly in good shape before. Obamacare was, in fact, wheezing and sweat-soaked every time it had to walk from the couch to the fridge.

That last sentence made me think of fatty.

LMAO

Roger Amick said...


Trump had undisclosed hour-long meeting with Putin at G-20 summit

After his much-publicized, two-and a quarter-hour meeting early this month with Russian President Vladi­mir Putin at the Group of 20 summit in Germany, President Trump met informally with the Russian leader for an additional hour later the same day.

The second meeting, unreported at the time, took place at a dinner for G-20 leaders, a senior administration official said. Halfway through the meal, Trump left his own seat to occupy a chair next to Putin. Trump was alone, and Putin was attended only by his official interpreter.

The encounter underscores the extent to which Trump was eager throughout the summit to cultivate a friendship with Putin. During last year’s campaign, Trump spoke admiringly of Putin and at times seemed captivated by him.

Meeting each other face-to-face for the first time in Hamburg, the two presidents seemed to have a chemistry in their more formal bilateral session, evidenced by the fact that it dragged on for more than two hours.

But Trump’s newly-disclosed conversation with Putin at the G-20 dinner is likely to stoke further criticism, including perhaps from some fellow Republicans in Congress, that he is too cozy with the leader of a major U.S. adversary.

https://ieonline.microsoft.com/#ieslice

If we didn't have a free press, we would never know about this formerly secret meeting.

"something of value" should not be criminal in this case. we probably should know what happened but I don't think there's any violation of law at all.

But in the junior meeting "something of value" provided by a foreign nation may be criminal. If "something of value" in this case, was used to influence the Presidential election, was probably a violation of election law.

Roger Amick said...

Trump tweeted in anger about this. so the fake news is getting worse.

It was never released before. The president did not have his own interpreter. The President should always have his own interpreter.

Instead of getting mad if he mentioned what they talked about no problem. But he didn't he gets mad and tweets instead. Again that raises suspicion on what happened it happens all the time he does not seem to understand that. He might not like it but that's the way that works. He does not know how to manage being the President and that's the bottom line

rrb said...




break out those articles of impeachment alky! you got him this time!

game over!

Roger Amick said...

I never said that you racist idiot.

My name is Roger not Alky. Cease-and-desist the insults, per the request of the host. Get over five years of sobriety is difficult but it's a landmark achievement most people never make it that long never relapse you, never.

You can't read. I said there's nothing you can be charged for that meeting, no way Jimmy you jerk. He should have had his own interpreter there, yes. And given his complete lack of knowledge and history and ignorance foreign affairs, we can't feel comfortable.

The meeting with Junior on the other hand, had something of value been provided by a foreign country to influence our elections that is very possibly, a violation of the electoral rules of law.

I have heard lawyers on both sides disagree I don't know.

And if the reporter had contributed to one party or the other, the $2700 that should have no impact on anything..



rrb said...



well alky, the white house is denying the occurrence of a "secret" meeting. and considering the sources of the reporting - cnn and WaPo (tag line: democracy drowns in bullshit), i'm inclined to believe the white house. did trump break protocol by not having his own interpreter? sure he did. i suspect he didn't know the rules.

so yeah, i have zero fucks to give over this latest "firestorm" of what is most likely nothing.

i am glad you picked up on it though. trump seems to be fucking with you like a person would with a cat and a piece of string or a laser pointer. you keep chasing it but never really grasp it.

carry on alky. and please keep us apprised of the next super top secret deep state leaks, will ya?

someone needs to keep an eye on the laughably irrelevant "holy fucking shit!!!11! / RUSSIA!!!11!" controversy of the minute and it might as well be you.

Commonsense said...

Roger calls a public after dinner conversation, where all the media is observing, a secret meeting.

And he wonders why people think he still has a problem.

opie said...

Rathole posted....

sure he did. i suspect he didn't know the rules.

IOW's, he's a flaming idiot, like you!!!! You would think the POTUS might have a sense of right from wrong. This is clear indication he don't give a fuck, just like you said above

opie said...

Anonymous Caliphate4vr said...
This should also give pause to Democrats who want to cheer “Obamacare is saved!” Obamacare is now in worse shape than ever. And Obamacare was not exactly in good shape before. Obamacare was, in fact, wheezing and sweat-soaked every time it had to walk from the couch to the fridge.

That last sentence made me think of fatty.

LMAO

The stupidity continues unabated. The loser salesman is the perfect supporter for trump....Go to work and earn some commission. LOLOLOLO

opie said...

, where all the media is observing

The media was excluded from that meeting....IDIOT

He should have talked to merkel instead of Putin

James said...

Strange. The great Republican healthcare debacle dominated ALL the news last night, even that on the those of the conservative talk show blowtorches (Hannity screaming at the Republicans, Larry Elder too).

Yet there is no thread about it here.

Ashamed, aren't you, Ch?
_____________________

This is a diversionary thread. Don't let him get away with it.

HERE'S THE REAL NEWS

Health Care Bill Enters Zombie Phase
OR The Actions of An Unpresidential President
OR

EMPHASES JOYFULLY ADDED

July 19
Rick Klein: “The GOP health care proposals are now in their zombie phase, and the undead can be hard to kill off. Perhaps that’s why President Trump is responding to major setbacks by ATTACKING JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY — Democrats, Republicans and even the people who depend on Obamacare for their health insurance — if he’s serious about letting insurance markets fail now. Where he’s not assigning blame, of course, is on himself: ‘I’M NOT GOING TO OWN IT,’ the president declared.”

“That – aside from being a STUNNING ABDICATION OF PRESIDENTIAL RESPONSIBILITY, if he’s serious — means that the White House plan is that THERE IS NO PLAN. The president will lunch with all Republican senators today to try to change minds one last time. But in blaming basically everybody, Trump’s own actions have given those senators NO REAL political wiggle room. Just because Trump doesn’t have a strategy, though, doesn’t mean Republicans in Congress can’t. A failed vote next week would free up lawmakers to go rogue, and even – GASP – talk to people on the other side of the aisle.”
_________

GASP indeed. :-)
Exactly what John McCain (no fan of Obama) is saying. And other level headed Republicans of which there are a few.
Even more, Republicans who are facing the wrath of their constituents.

James said...

Sam Baker: “It ain’t over until it’s over, and there’s still some chatter bouncing around Capitol Hill about last-minute shenanigans or a Hail Mary on the Senate floor. And President Trump is sure to put some serious pressure on the moderates this afternoon when all of the Republican senators lunch with him at the White House. But unless something dramatic changes, Washington appears to be ABOUT DONE with the repeal-and-replace phase of the debate over the Affordable Care Act.”

James said...

"The meeting lasted an hour and the only other person present was Putin’s translator."

https://politicalwire.com/2017/07/18/trump-second-meeting-putin/

In Commensa's mind, that doesn't constitute a secret meeting.

ROFL

But get back to HEALTHCARE.

Commonsense said...

"The meeting lasted an hour and the only other person present was Putin’s translator."

Plus all the leaders of the G20, their spouses, and the entire media contingent observing.

The story that they were "alone" is absolute fiction.

James said...

Headline at politicalwire.com
HOUSE GOP CAN'T EVEN PASS ITS SPENDING BILL
excerpt:
Bill Kristol: “July 2017 could be the month historians look back to as the moment the GOP lost any credible claim to be a plausible governing party.”

Jennifer Epstein said Ian Bremmer said...

Jennifer Epstein‏
Verified account
 
@jeneps
Follow

More
White House confirms Trump & Putin met a second time at the G-20. @ianbremmer says it lasted an hour and only other was a Putin translator.

good old gentle decent democracy minded James said...

However, as several journalists pointed out, the existence of the private dinner was never in question. Coverage of the conversation focused on its unusual length and the fact that there is no government record of it. Trump did not use an American translator during the interaction, instead relying on Putin's translator.

Ian Bremmer, president of geopolitical risk firm Eurasia Group, said other attendees were shocked by the conversation.
"Pretty much everyone at the dinner thought this was really weird, that here is the president of the United States, who clearly wants to display that he has a better relationship personally with President Putin than any of us, or simply doesn't care," Bremmer told the New York Times. "They were flummoxed, they were confused and they were startled."

Commonsense said...

No direct quote from any of the other G20 leaders not even an anonymous source with close ties to any of the leaders . Just an opinion from an NGO functionary with an agenda.

Loretta said...

"good old gentle decent democracy minded James"

No such person exists.

No pedophilia to swoon over yet today Pastor James Boswell?

caliphate4vr said...

The stupidity continues unabated. The loser salesman is the perfect supporter for trump....Go to work and earn some commission. LOLOLOLO

Damn fatty does the hook in your gaping jaw hurt. You are so easy to bait, but then you have a brain the size of a trout

I busted you and im out fat boy, troll away, it's your life

LMAO

C.H. Truth said...

So a guy who wasn't at the dinner suggests that pretty much every one who was at the dinner was "shocked" and "thought it was really weird"?

(because of course normal people "never" mingle at a dinner party)


Seriously... is there "anything" that you don't reflexively believe?

opie said...

Damn fatty does the hook in your gaping jaw hurts]

Feel better loser? The only profession with less respect than insurance sales are car salesman Good day, pauline and sell some product everyone needs to have and you think they don't. Busted....you really need help!!! LOLOLOL at you again, loser                                                                                                                 .

caliphate4vr said...

Feel better loser?

You waddled in and swallowed the bait fatboy, inhaled like you do pies.

You just aren't bright and I guess, the plastic hip caused by morbid obesity, is why you spend so much time here when you are "supposedly" in the N GA mountains.

70 some odd years of shitty choices are why you are ambulatory and incapable of clarity thought, much less walking

LMAO

wphamilton said...

As far as I know, the independent press reporting the news has never been deemed to be a contribution to a political campaign, regardless of whom might have been helped or damaged. So you have presented a false equivalency.

Even if you're being facetious, the implications of construing the free press to be a political contribution are staggering. I don't begrudge anyone their delusions, even the paranoid delusions about the press, but don't even try to codify it into law. Free America will squash that like a bug.

opie said...

Loser sales man posted....
You just aren't bright and I guess, the plastic hip caused by morbid obesity, is why you spend so much time here when you are "supposedly" in the N GA mountains

If you really paid attention like monitoring when post here, I said almost 2 weeks ago that I was heading back to floriduh for a concert. Since you are a genius in your own mind and sell medical insurance, I would have figured you would know they don't use plastic for hips. Not that it matters to assholes like you, I'm 6'2" and weight 210 and have no problem taking care of little shits like you. ....but, I am sure you think stupidity is normal for loser salesman like yourself. Now again, must be a crappy day selling since you seem to be having lots of time here rather than working. I'm sure your employer would frown on using his equipment for blogging. Yer still an idiot.

opie said...

So you have presented a false equivalency.

Really, not the first time CH has done that. Most of the time he just makes up his alternate facts tho support his rants. But I do believe just about any campaign tries to get as much free air time as they can whenever they can. I would take a leap and say that I think CH confuses that concept with reality of what they do.

Commonsense said...

As far as I know, the independent press reporting the news has never been deemed to be a contribution to a political campaign

Define independent and who determines that.

During the presidential campaign MSNBC was a 24/7 commercial for Hillary Clinton.

You could almost say the same with Trump and Fox News. (Although it wasn't as blatant as MSNBC in that they also presented liberal and anti-Trump conservative points of view.)

I could argue their "coverage" were in kind contributions in violation of campaign finance laws.

That's why these laws are absurd as well as an unconstitutional restriction of political speech.

opie said...

During the presidential campaign MSNBC was a 24/7 commercial for Hillary Clinton.

Your unfounded opinion. And I'm sure fox was just as neutral.....And you could also argue the sky is green and gays are not normal. Both absurdities .

caliphate4vr said...

I'm 6'2" and weight 210

Fatty you've ranged from 6'2" to 6'4" and from 195 to 220


You're a liar.

And I didn't know you were in FL cause I rarely read your posts, it's disjointed gibberish of a rambling pot head.

Have fun watching whatever washed up old band they can get to play at The Villages, moody blues or some other equal shit.

Hell in the last year I've seen Awolnation, Of Monsters and Men, Counting Crows, Dave Matthews, Sheryl Crowe, Green Day, Death Cab for Cutie, Smashing Pumpkins and have my tickets for Social D And Toad the Wet Sprocket

caliphate4vr said...

BTW fatty since you're so curious, I didn't work today. I'm executor of my late maternal grandmother's will.

Was in probate getting a cool $250k.

it's good to be me

LMAO