Friday, September 14, 2018

Manafort plea deal

So the question always appears to go back to "what does this mean for the President".  Oddly, it really doesn't seem to matter what is actually taking place, for some people, every event will prompt them to ask "what does this mean for the President."

I got nothing on Russian collusion, but I know all about Brett
 Kavanaugh's evil obsession with locking young girls in rooms.

But let's put all of that aside for a second and look at reality.

Manafort was charged with multiple counts and multiple charges for basically the same underlying action. By all accounts if he had been found not guilty of the crimes he faced in the first D.C. trial, it would have been much more difficult for Mueller to garner any guilty verdicts in the second  trial. Likewise, now that he has been found guilty in the first trial, Manafort's chances of beating the charges in the second trial were slim to none.

But moreover, given the fact that the charges were all related to what accounts to the same criminal activities, there was almost "no" chance that either Judge would sentence Manafort to any sentences that would have run consecutively. Given that Manafort had already been found guilty of the charge that provided the longest sentence (Bank Fraud - 30 years), most observers  believe that more guilty verdicts from another trial would not have been worth the time and effort. Yes, Manafort would have had more convictions, but it probably would not have resulted in a substantially longer prison sentence (if it even effected it at all).

So the second trial would have been little more than a big waste of time and money for both parties involved. From all accounts, the Prosecutors have agreed to a ten year prison cap for Manafort. In exchange Manafort is giving up multiple things of value, including four houses, and multiple bank accounts. He will no doubt have to sign an affidavit admitting the crimes in question. I would not be surprised to see some "generic" agreement to cooperate in any other investigations.

However, the idea that Manafort has something to provide Special Counsel in regards to Russia or Trump has no logical merit. If Manafort had something to provide, he would have provided it a long time ago, back when he had some leverage.  This plea makes perfect sense for everyone involved, and that perfect sense has nothing to do with Russian collusion.
_______

Update: As I stated earlier, there was always a better than good chance that Manafort would provide an agreement to "cooperate" with Special Counsel.  This same agreement to cooperate was made by George Papadopoulos, by General Flynn, and by Rick Gates. In as much as all of them have "agreed to cooperate" there is not any rumors that any of them have actually cooperated with any actual real information.

Most legal experts believed that Manafort was looking at eight to ten years to begin with. His plea does not reduce that prison sentence, nor did it allow him to be released pending sentencing (which was apparently something he was asking for). Add to it, the fact that he is giving up substantial accumulated wealth (four houses and numerous bank accounts), this deal does not look like one that has greatly benefited Manafort. Reports that he (at age 69) simply did not want to deal with the stress of another trial, and that both sides felt it was a waste of time, seems more likely the reason why this deal doesn't seem to benefit anyone.

Generally if Manafort had something to provide Mueller, you would have seen the same sort of "plea" Mueller made with Papadopoulos or Flynn, that did not include any specifics. That way Mueller could press Manafort for information with the both promise of a reduced sentence and the threat of tossing out the plea agreement if he didn't get what he wanted.


34 comments:

Anonymous said...



However, the idea that Manafort has something to provide Special Counsel in regards to Russia or Trump has no logical merit. If Manafort had something to provide, he would have provided it a long time ago, back when he had some leverage. This plea makes perfect sense for everyone involved, and that perfect sense has nothing to do with Russian collusion.


there you go again...

injecting logic and reason into one of the alky's TDS-fueled fantasies.

show some compassion CH.

Anonymous said...




so what's missing here?


Prosecutors, who made a point of noting the activity occurred “at least through 2016,” used bank records and other documents to show what they say Manafort did to hide evidence of his work for Ukrainian politicians, hide millions in proceeds in offshore accounts, and then spend the money lavishly on clothing, luxury items, homes and cars.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/paul-manafort-plead-guilty-forfeit-assets-special-counsel/story?id=57823235


oh yeah. any mention of trump and/or russia.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Again your assumption is based upon insufficient information. If he has agreed to cooperate and perhaps has information on the Russian investigation during his tenure as the chairman of the campaign and has recollection about the meeting in the tower and during the election it would be devastating if there was cooperation between the campaign and the Russians.

I am not saying that he has dangerous information to the candidate Trump and the President. But we don't know that yet.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

If he has agreed to cooperate and perhaps has information on the Russian investigation during his tenure as the chairman of the campaign and has recollection about the meeting in the tower and during the election it would be devastating if there was cooperation between the campaign and the Russians.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

He acknowledged to the judge that he understood that his plea deal included an agreement to cooperate with Mueller's office, and delay sentencing while he works with prosecutors.

He can hold that over his head if he doesn't cooperate.

Anonymous said...




oh alky.

"But we don't know that yet."


so after two fucking years there's still more to learn from manafort, eh?

God bless you and your fantasies, alky.

at this point it's become almost cute.

psychotic and delusional, but cute.



Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

"This had absolutely nothing to do with the president or his victorious 2016 presidential campaign," White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders said of the Manafort news on Friday. "It is totally unrelated.”

The question remains is that the fact that he may have to provide evidence on the campaign or Presidential involvement with the Russians to avoid an equivalent life sentence .

Anonymous said...




and has recollection about the meeting in the tower


so he's been saving this up until now, right alky? manafort thought to wait until he was completely and totally fucked before tossing out this tidbit that might have worked in his favor had he mentioned it MONTHS ago.

perhaps you should have mail order put you down for your nap.

Anonymous said...

The question remains is that the fact that he may have to provide evidence on the campaign or Presidential involvement with the Russians to avoid an equivalent life sentence .


alky, the plea deal already contains a 10 year cap on his sentence.

do you even read?

and gates has already been cooperating. if manafort had anything on trump gates would've given it up.


Anonymous said...




and here's the basis for ALL the wishful thinking:


Prosecutors said the Manafort's own deal, which will require him to forfeit an estimated $46 million in assets, includes a 17-page cooperation agreement with Mueller in which he will help the special counsel cooperate "in any and all matter as to which the government deems the cooperation relevant."

Specificially, Manafort must participate in interviews with investigators, provide documents and testify, if needed.


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/trump-campaign-chief-paul-manafort-pleads-guilty-to-conspiracy-charges.html


C.H. Truth said...

and gates has already been cooperating

as have Flynn and Papadopoulos.

I saw CNN fawning all over this...
as they will until the next big shoe drops...

Bottom line:

If anyone is "still" talking about the Trump Tower meeting, then they are complete morons. There is no "there there".

C.H. Truth said...

Rat - I offered another post (but no thread) regarding some supposed clarification offered by Politico.

The cooperation expected from Manafort will involved information and possible testimony against some of the unindicted co-conspirators that were mentioned in the indictment.

According to sources "close to the defense" the cooperation has nothing to do with Russia.

commie said...


According to sources "close to the defense" the cooperation has nothing to do with Russia.

Is that an anonymous source CH....something you abhor except when you don't LOLOLOLO

"Has nothing to do with the campaign"....Ssrah the beached whale.... Yeah, but what does he have????? About junior? The R plank change....on and on and on.....Going to be a lot of tweeting coming out!!!

commie said...

He is to cooperate fully with mueller....Imagine what he knows and how much he can harm trump....especially that little meeting he attended...could junior be next????? That sure would be a hoot....and no tweets yet....wonder why????

C.H. Truth said...

Imagine what he knows and how much he can harm trump

I am pretty sure that Manafort knows nothing about Trump and Russian collusion, because there would actually have to be collusion in order for Manafort to know about it.

But you can "imagine" whatever it is you want.

commie said...

because there would actually have to be collusion in order for Manafort to know about it.

You are stretching to the point of absurdity.....Collusion ain't a crime....conspiracy is and I am certain with Paulies position, he either led it, knew about it or participated in it....like the plank change for the convention...very coincidental it was a client of manaforts that seems to have gotten his way....BTW....there is no such thing as a coincidence,.....And you can keep whistling past the graveyard as another brick comes out of the trump wall....LOL

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The plea agreement reached between Paul Manafort and the special counsel’s office requires Manafort to cooperate “fully, truthfully, completely, and forthrightly” with the government on “any and all matters” identified by the government.

Scott, you are not being honest about this again. You duck and cover when your opinion based upon your assumptions are not supported by the evidence.

Especially since you started out with the quit sending me links to the Fake News stories about the candidate Trump.

I did sometimes send them at off hours. I apologized but you insisted on blocking my Facebook account because I dared to disagree with you.

Commonsense said...

I think Dennis and Roger are in for one hell of a disappointment.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

James, IN REPLY TO CH'S RAMBLINGS, cites the following:

A Lopsided Victory for Robert Mueller

Roll Call: “No matter how you look at it, this deal has to be seen as a massive victory for Mueller and his special counsel team.

“The only concession the special counsel made was to repackage the charges against Manafort in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia from seven counts to two and to ask judges for a shorter sentence.

“Besides that, prosecutors extracted a guilty plea, a cooperation agreement for Manafort to tell them everything he knows and fork over any documents they request, an admission of guilt to the 10 remaining charges from the Eastern Virginia trial, and likely a multi-year prison sentence for Manafort.”

Key takeaway: “Holding out on cooperation with Mueller’s team for as long as he did not strengthen Manafort’s bargaining position — it weakened it.”

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Trump Team Suddenly Not Sure Manafort Will Tell Truth

CNBC: “After Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chairman, agreed to cooperate with prosecutors working for the special counsel on Friday, President Trump’s legal team released a statement attributed to Rudy Giuliani, Trump’s outside counsel in charge of the Russia probe.”

Once again an investigation has concluded with a plea having nothing to do with President Trump or the Trump campaign. The reason: the President did nothing wrong AND PAUL MANAFORT WILL TELL THE TRUTH.

“Minutes later, they seemed to reconsider. A ‘corrected’ statement REMOVED the bit about Manafort telling the truth.”
____________

A HUGE LOL. You can't make this stuff up.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Rudy Giuliani's statement(s).

Once again the investigation has concluded with a plea having nothing to do with President Trump or the Trump campaign. The reason: The President did nothing wrong and Paul Manafort will tell the truth.

The statement was released twice and the (and Paul Manafort will tell the truth ) was deleted from the statement.

The President's position is in danger.

I don't believe that the Muller investigation would not have given him the break, if they didn't already have something really bad for the President. He has been with the Muller investigation team for many hours in the last few days.

We are all speculating on the information we have been given. But you really have to think that this surprising event if there isn't something there.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Once again the investigation has concluded with a plea having nothing to do with President Trump or the Trump campaign. The reason: The President did nothing wrong. and Paul Manafort will tell the truth.

C.H. Truth said...

Funny how things went from:

Manafort agrees to flip on Trump

to

Manafort agrees to to something that "might" have something to do with Trump, maybe, perhaps.


The reality is that Manafort (like Gates who also supposedly flipped on Trump) knows everything about Ukraine and US Lobbying, and next to nothing about Trump and Russia.

There are now "Multiple sources" reporting that the cooperation agreement is not in reference to Trump.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Your multiple sources including conservative media and websites.

You are ignoring a simple question.

Manafort had no experience in running a political campaign. He didn't even pay him. But he did know that he had long been involved with the Russians oligarchy who were connected to Vladimir Putin.

His plea agreement starts specifically that he must fully disclose exactly everything about the candidate Trump and the possible wrongdoing. He had been undergoing interviews with the Muller investigation team for many days prior to the quite unexpected decision to admit committing crimes. The revisions to the Giuliani statement were more evidence that they feared that he would give up everything. He also has a clause that if he failed to cooperate that the pardon would be rescinded.

We don't know for sure Scott but you may have to eat your words.

But you can "imagine" whatever it is you want.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

So why did he bring in Manafort???

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Politico has opinions by highly qualified prosecutors and lawyers who know more than we do.

The past several weeks revealed the breadth of Mueller’s work in other ways. More than a dozen witnesses during Manafort’s trial in Virginia acknowledged receiving subpoenas from the special counsel, demanding everything from television advertisement scripts to an invoice for a Mercedes Benz.

Mueller also demonstrated that he can tap at will into other federal law enforcement branches and their deep bench of experienced investigators when he needs specific kinds of help.

One has been Michael Welch, an IRS special agent whose has spent 25 years leading investigations into tax cheats. Two others are FBI forensic accountant Morgan Magionos and Paula Liss, a Treasury Department expert in fraud and money laundering. Both testified in the Virginia trial about how the Mueller team relied on their expertise to sift through millions of dollars in payments from secret foreign bank accounts.

The FBI is anchoring Mueller’s probe in other vital ways too. About 14 agents raided Manafort’s Alexandria, Virginia, condominium last summer to procure the financial documents and emails so central to the government charges. Special agents also went to the homes of bank executives who did business with Manafort for interviews. One of the contractors who did millions of dollars of work on Manafort’s homes described during last month’s trial meeting “for several hours with a very pleasant young lady from the FBI who went step by step, invoice by invoice, over detail of each invoice, matching it with each payment.”

Mueller’s thoroughness has upended the defense plans for other Trump loyalists. Lawyers for Flynn had maintained regular contact with the president’s attorneys until late November 2017, just a week before the former Trump national security adviser pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate with Mueller’s prosecutors rather than face trial for lying to the FBI.

Mueller’s investigators also sicced federal prosecutors in New York on Cohen, whose guilty plea last month – on the same day as Manafort’s conviction in Virginia -- rocked the president’s inner circle. Even after the FBI raided Cohen’s home, office and hotel room in April, Trump spoke by phone with his longtime fixer, who once said he’d take a bullet for the president. Rudy Giuliani, a personal attorney to Trump, didn’t signal until mid-May that Cohen was no longer representing Trump.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Those cases and others are earning Mueller’s team new praise as the latest cooperation agreement sinks in.

“The Manafort plea confirms what many observers knew from the outset — that Mueller had assembled a superb team of professional prosecutors who could track through complex financial transactions and figure out whether federal crimes have been committed,” said Philip Lacovara, an attorney who served on the Watergate special counsel team.

“The track record of convictions demonstrates that Mueller is systematically building his cases and charging only persons who have been caught dead to rights,” he added. “Manafort’s belated capitulation should signal anyone else charged by Mueller that there is little chance to escape.”

Barbara McQuade, a former federal prosecutor who attended Manafort’s Virginia trial, credited the Mueller team with securing the guilty plea and Manafort’s cooperation by redrafting their indictment against him to encompass all his misconduct in a single conspiracy against the U.S. charge while dismissing the remaining counts.

“This accomplished two goals — requiring him to admit to all of his criminal conduct while at the same time reducing his potential sentencing exposure because of the five-year statutory maximum for that count to provide an incentive to plead guilty,” she said.

Duke University law professor Samuel Buell, another federal prosecutor, said he’s most impressed by the Mueller team’s “incredible discipline with which they have been able to tune out and seal off everything around them and just do what federal prosecutors and FBI agents do.”

“So far, it’s as if Trump and his political operation practically don’t exist for them,” added Buell, who worked with Weissmann to prosecute the Enron case. “What is happening to Mueller’s targets is the same thing that has happened to hundreds of others, for years and years, when faced with experienced, talented, determined, and patient prosecutors and agents.”

“In those circumstances, federal criminal law wins almost every time,” he added. “These prosecutors knew that going in and they’ve kept their eyes on that ball."

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

I know that you hate liberals who copy and paste but since you don't allow comments on the Politico article I thought that we should see the picture.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Yeah I know that it doesn't have any references to the hoax but I still think that Muller has assembled the finest investigative team ever.

It will be a silver lining or the best thing for the country when the pink haired fucking moron gets out of the White House.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Matt Drudge, the founder of the conservative news aggregation site Drudge Report, predicted Friday that the GOP would lose 60 seats in the House in November's midterm elections.

Drudge appeared to base his prediction on President Trump's approval rating according to a Rasmussen Reports poll released Friday. The poll found that Trump's approval rating matched former President Obama's approval at the same stage in his presidency at 47 percent among likely voters.

"Trump and Obama both have 47% approval at this time of presidency, according to Rasmussen," Drudge tweeted. "Trump will also lose 60 seats in the House like Obama did during first midterm!

Anonymous said...


The cooperation expected from Manafort will involved information and possible testimony against some of the unindicted co-conspirators that were mentioned in the indictment.

exactly.

and i heard that it may also include some info on some of the russians already under indictment that will never see a trial here in the US.

Anonymous said...


Blogger Roger Amick said...

So why did he bring in Manafort???


because he had the misfortune to work on the trump campaign for about an hour.

in case you haven't figured it out alky, mueller is now in face-saving mode. there is no russia collusion, never was, and the real crime is hillary and 0linsky using the FBI to try and beat trump.

so there is a shit-ton of criminality here alky. it just happens to be your team that's dirty. a nice diversion is to fuck with flynn manafort, gates amd cohen, and to give lil papadop two weeks in the clink. no russia, russia, russia, so mueller creates a diversion. oh, and he indicted 13 russians who will never stand trial.

ol' bob hasn't really accomplished shit. even after assembling a team of rabid partisans and nasty scumbag lawyers like weissman.

if mueller had any honor he would've resigned in shame by now, but since he's a known dirty cop, he'll hang in there to the bitter end.

Anonymous said...

Former lobbyist Tony Podesta, Mercury Public Affairs partner and former Minnesota Republican Rep. Vin Weber and former Obama White House Counsel Greg Craig are all under federal investigation by prosecutors for the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York, multiple sources with knowledge of the matter told NBC News on Tuesday.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/former-lobbyist-tony-podesta-others-under-investigation-federal-prosecutors-over-n896396



huh. no trump and no russia.

wphamilton said...

Looks like you were wrong AGAIN about Manafort, since he pleads guilty and not to "process crimes".

And of course he has information about collusion, which is part of his full cooperation.

Another Victory Lap.