Sunday, June 9, 2019

Hard cases shouldn't force anyone to make bad law

Is Bill Barr a bad man?
Lawyers have a saying: Hard cases make for bad law. In other words, the more unusual and extreme the circumstances, the more damaging the precedent it sets for all the other cases to follow.
 

Barr and the others should have realized that Trump is as hard a case as there is.
You were never going to preserve the integrity of the presidency by defending the least honest, most reckless example of presidential leadership we’ve ever seen. You can’t shore up the institutions of government by enabling a man who wants to dismantle them.
Trump isn’t the case you seize on to uphold precedent. He’s the case you call an outlier and toss aside.

Look, I will give this particular writer (Matt Bai) a lot of credit for basically being honest about what he expects. However, something tells me that he doesn't necessarily view his own argument the same way that I (or many others) see it. The bottom line is that Bai quite literally argues that we should ignore whatever good precedents there are, replace them with bad precedents, in order to allow the means to be justified by the ends. This is the argument that many try to make without actually coming out and saying it. These people pretend (somehow) that what they are arguing is within the norms, when it's extremely clear that it's not. There is sort of a wink, wink, nudge, nudge sort of deal going on with it. This writer is being honest.

Now Bai sort of ignores the concept that by bypassing a legal norm (or precedent) that you are basically creating a new one. He appears to believe that you can pick or choose your precedents based on whether or not you fundamentally agree with (or otherwise like) the person you are looking to charge. You ignore the legal norms and legal precedents "this time" (or toss them aside as the article states) and then just go back to them "next time" like nothing ever changes.

But the "old saying" is much more realistic in actual legal world. Once you have changed your legal standards for one instance, it will be forever judged for anything coming after it. I look back at the 2000 USSC example of Bush v Gore, to find something that no matter how hard the court tried to argue that this was about the FSSC ruling (and not law in general), it was never going to be viewed that way.

The coldheartedtruth here folks is that if you want to impeach or indict President Trump for whatever actions you believe he should be impeached or indicted for, they will have to be judged exclusively by the norms, precedents, and known definitions of the law. The fact that he is President and it becomes a political process as much as a legal process, actually demands we are more strict in following norms and precedents in order to effectively eliminate as much political opinions as you can.

  • If no other American Citizen has ever been charged with Obstruction because they tried to control a media narrative, then you cannot charge this American citizen. 
  • If no other American Citizen has ever been charged with a crime for excessive Tweeting, then you cannot charge this President.
  • If no other American Citizen has ever been charged for the actions of other people, then you cannot charge this American citizen. 
  • If no other President has ever been charged with Obstruction for using a Pardon during an investigation, then you cannot charge this President simply for bringing them up. 
  • If no other President has ever been charged with a crime for firing a subordinate appointment, then you cannot charge this President.

However, what this writer is arguing, is that Trump is "otherwise" such a bad actor that we shouldn't make these sorts of arguments in his defense. The concept, quite frankly, argues that Barr shouldn't defend the norms of the law, or argue that we should abide by precedent, because the end result is that those arguments work to defend the "least honest" and "most reckless" behavior of a President that "we have ever seen". Rather, we should pretend that such norms and precedents don't exist, and simply charge "this" President in spite of them. 

Not because the actions deserve it, but because the person deserves it.

Now the other significant problem with this issue (other than the willingness to toss aside any and all legal norms and precedents in order to "get somebody") is that the reality that this is the "least honest" and "most reckless" President is a matter of personal opinion. It certainly isn't something that can be objectively "proven", especially considering most people don't remember more than handful of Presidents. Trump is the forty fourth President, and to declare that he is the most "anything" of all Presidents seems pretty silly and premature (considering he has been President just over two years). 

Trump has not led us into a war (as many Presidents have). He has not led us into a depression or recession (as many Presidents have). He has not pushed a radical agenda (as many Presidents have). He has not created a list of enemies, he has not been secretly negotiating arms for hostages, he did not secretly provide palettes full of cash to an enemy, he has not sold arms to terrorists, he did not oversee an unwarranted investigation into a political opponent, he has not had twenty year old interns give him head in the oval office, he has not blamed a Youtube video for an act of terror against an American embassy, and he certainly did not demand we knew where the WMD were to justify an invasion of another country.  

In many ways, this President has done very little "other" than work hard to push the agenda he was elected on, attempt to make good on his campaign promises, and do what he said he would do by acting in a somewhat non-conventional manner. A case in point would be his recent hard line negotiations with Mexico that made so many conventional thinkers shit their pants, but all ended up good in the end. 

So while it's dangerous at any time to argue that standards, norms, protocol, rules, and precedents should not be followed because the person you want to go after legally is an exception, it's even more dangerous to make that argument of an exemption over political differences and personal dislike of the President's personal behavior. 

But again... I give Matt Bai many props for his honesty, even if his overall argument is shit.


46 comments:

cowardly king obama said...

A case in point would be his recent hard line negotiations with Mexico that made so many conventional thinkers shit their pants, but all ended up good in the end

For all the airtime of immigration issues over the past few years I never once heard any mention of "tariffs".

It was brilliant.

To hear detractors mock Trumps approach is to defy reality and reduces their standing even further. This is not the complete solution but it has real possibilities of giving some relief. Lets hope so.

anonymous said...

Another example of stupid laws enacted by stupid southern republican assholes.....Many conventual thinker believe this species of humans DNA should be stopped!!!!!


June 9 at 12:10 PM
When a young woman came to the Family Services of North Alabama office last year for help with trauma, saying she had been raped by her step-uncle when she was 15, rape crisis advocate Portia Shepherd heard something that “killed me, shocked me.”

The step-uncle, who was getting out of jail after a drug conviction, wanted to be a part of their child’s life. And in Alabama, the alleged rapist could get custody.

“It’s the craziest thing I ever heard in my life,” said Shepherd. “On the state level, people were shocked. How could Alabama even be missing this law?”

Alabama is one of two states with no statute terminating parental rights for a person found to have conceived the child by rape or incest, a fact that has gained fresh relevance since its lawmakers adopted the nation’s strictest abortion ban in May. That statute even outlaws the procedure for victims of sexual assault and jails doctors who perform it, except in cases of serious risk to the woman’s health

Anonymous said...

Roger you are off Topic, again.

Try harder and focus.

Anonymous said...

Trump is the least honest, most reckless example of presidential leadership we’ve ever seen.

500 words later, all you have is a pile of shit. You don't dispute what Bai said.

We cannot impeach the President for being the least honest, most reckless example of presidential leadership we’ve ever seen.

•If no other President has ever been charged with Obstruction for using a Pardon during an investigation, then you cannot charge this President simply for bringing them up. If the prosecutor can prove intent to offer a pardon with the intent to get the witness to lie under oath in return for a pardon a crime was committed.

•If no other President has ever been charged with a crime for firing a subordinate appointment, then you cannot charge this President. If the prosecutor can prove intent suppress and investigation into the actions of the President, a crime was committed.

anonymous said...

Blogger KD said...
Roger you are off Topic, again.


SO FUCKING WHAT!!!!!! Everything you post is off topic and usually wrong,,,,,goat fucker....BTW you really have trouble keeping up! BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

Anonymous said...

Dennis, you can't be this way irl.

So I will chalk this up to your online persona.

Anonymous said...

If the prosecutor can prove intent to suppress an investigation into the actions of the President, a crime was committed.

Anonymous said...

Joe White and his 22 Dwarfs are pissed that President Trump keeps winning for unions and blue collar workers .

Cowardly King Obama has it on topic and right:
"It was brilliant.

To hear detractors mock Trumps approach is to defy reality and reduces their standing even further. This is not the complete solution but it has real possibilities of giving some relief. Lets hope so."

Anonymous said...

Speaker in Name Only Polosi , confused, stuttering and pisses off that Pres. Trump walked over her again.

C.H. Truth said...

If the prosecutor can prove intent to suppress an investigation into the actions of the President, a crime was committed.

You mean like when Hillary refused to turn over her server to the FBI, then bleachbit it to wipe it clean prior to the FBI seizing it?


The reality is that four of the ten articles of the Bill of Rights deal with the constitutional protections of citizens that our law enforcement wants to put under investigation. Every last one of those basic fundamental constitutional rights "suppresses" an investigation.

So no, Denny... regardless of how many times it's repeated (of course only in regards to this particular Trump investigation) - investigators have to suck it up and accept the fact that the Constitution protects people and allows them to push back on investigators.

Investigators are not legally allowed to run amok and do whatever they want, while those being investigated just bend over and take it up the ass.

Anonymous said...

Dirty TOP Cops.

"WASHINGTON — “This is the only time I am aware of, sir.” “I have not seen that before, sir.” “I’ve never seen that.”

These are just some of the words utilized by former acting FBI director Andrew McCabe when asked during closed door testimony about an email penned by disgraced ex-FBI chief James Comey circulating a draft statement exonerating Hillary Clinton in the private email server case a full two months before the FBI interviewed Clinton and other witnesses in the criminal probe.

Documents previously released by the FBI show that Comey on May 2, 2016 sent the email in question to McCabe, FBI general counsel James Baker and chief of staff and senior counselor James Rybicki. Clinton was interviewed by the FBI on June 2, with Comey later testifying that she was not sworn in and that the interview was not recorded."

Anonymous said...

Denise why do you so deeply desire my personal Data?

Anonymous said...

More Winning
"
BREITBART

DEMS BATTLE 4 IOWATRUMP-MEX DEALMIGRANT SURGESPYGATEFAKE NEWSTPUSA WOMEN’S SUMMIT

Ruth Bader Ginsburg: Kavanaugh ‘Boosted’ Female SCOTUS Law ClerksJIM WATSON/AFP/Getty ImagesKATHERINE RODRIGUEZ9 Jun 20191,055

1:56

Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg (RBG) told a group of judges in upstate New York on Thursday that her colleague, newly-appointed Justice Brett Kavanaugh, was the reason the Supreme Court (SCOTUS) had more female law clerks this term.

“Justice Kavanaugh made history by hiring a team of all-female law clerks for his staff. Thanks to his selections, the Court has this Term, for the first time ever, more women than men serving as law clerks,” Ginsburg announced on Thursday."



James said...

If Obama had done one fifth of the disgusting things this pitiful excuse for a supposed president has done, you and all the other denizens who bottom feed at this blog would be absolutely livid with outrage, and you know it.

James said...

Trump Defends Mexico Agreement with Few Specifics

“President Trump spent much of this weekend tweeting that Mexico will take ‘strong measures’ against northward migration as a result of Friday’s trade deal, and bewailing the ‘Corrupt Media’ for underplaying those measures’ significance, Politico reports.

“But Trump didn’t specify any Mexican concessions on immigration, referring vaguely to unnamed ‘things we had, or didn’t have.’ And the one concession the president did specify (in a Saturday tweet), concerning agricultural trade, did not appear in the joint statement issued Friday.”

“Neither the White House, nor the State Department, nor the Homeland Security Department volunteered any clarification to the president’s tweets Sunday.”
_______________

Oh but he is such a big hero and wonderful deal maker.

Anonymous said...

This all happened on his watch with his full knowledge and his direction.
You stupid bitch Jane.

Jonathan Swan said...

Business Seeks to Tame Trump on Trade

Jonathan Swan: “Trump’s blunt use of presidential leverage to force the Mexican government to harden its immigration enforcement appears to have caused an unintended side effect:
U.S. business leaders have begun urgently discussing strategies to claw back the virtually unchecked trade powers that Congress has handed over to presidents during the past 80 years.

“Even though the business community is now breathing a sigh of relief that Trump won’t be hitting Mexico with new tariffs, the last week of Trump’s threats may have a longer lasting effect.”
______________________

Overreaching such as that Trump has done can lead to some good after all.

Anonymous said...

The Left is outraged at Pres. Trump win .

Why?
Because the Socialist Democrats are all about open borders.

Anonymous said...

When one uses the Power of the Presidency it is never ever an "Overreaching".

Jane you are one stupid old godless bitch.

Anonymous said...

What did Obama know about the spying on Trump and when?

Biggest scandal of all time.

When do we get the IG report?

NYT said...

Barr Keeps Amassing Power

New York Times: “The move illustrates Mr. Barr’s swift rise in the pantheon of President Trump’s most prominent and loyal allies — and in the eyes of Mr. Trump himself. In a cabinet stocked with government neophytes and placeholders, the deeply experienced Mr. Barr is quickly emerging as the most influential figure in the second half of Mr. Trump’s term.

“But his rising power over the intelligence community has been accompanied by swelling disillusionment with Mr. Barr among former national security officials and ideological moderates. When he agreed late last year to take the job, many of them had cast him as a Republican straight shooter, steeped in pre-Trump mores, who would restrain an impetuous president.

“Now they see in him someone who has glossed over Mr. Trump’s misdeeds, smeared his investigators and positioned himself to possibly declassify information for political gain — not the Bill Barr they thought they knew.”
__________________

In service to a criminal president, Barr has gone criminal himself.

"We won't lie for Trump," Mexican officials o said...

Mexico Not Aware of Farm Deal Touted by Trump

“President Trump boasted of ‘large’ agricultural sales to Mexico as part of a deal reached Friday on border security and illegal immigration that averted the threat of U.S. tariffs, but the deal as released had none, and three Mexican officials say they’re not aware of any side accord,” Bloomberg reports.

“Trump told his 61 million Twitter followers in an all-caps message that Mexico had agreed to ‘immediately begin buying large quantities of agricultural product from our great patriot farmers.'”

Anonymous said...

Keep going, Jane, or Alky or dummy denise.

Not a false pastor said...

The great Patriot Farmers overwhelming support President Trump.

Just like our military men and women.

And people of faith.

A tremendous president.

Well said, James, well said, I said...

If Obama had done one fifth of the disgusting things this pitiful excuse for a supposed president has done, you and all the other denizens who bottom feed at this blog would be absolutely livid with outrage, and you know it.

Anonymous said...

According to Dummy Denise the US has no grain to sell.

Anonymous said...

This all happened on his watch with his full knowledge and his direction.
You stupid bitch Jane.

. said...

Why so livid?

JAMES'S FUCKING DADDY said...

Well said "not a fake pastor".

The Obama scandals just can't be hidden forever despite the deniers.

Worst president with biggest scandal of all time. Now coming out.

Anonymous said...

Using executive power to "suppresses" any investigation into the actions of the President, is not included in the Constitution of the United States.

It is objection of justice and the house of representatives has both the obligation and authority to charge the President with high crimes and misdemeanors.

Anonymous said...

Lol, oh how badly Mueller failed the left.
They are crying babies.

Anonymous said...

"objection of justice"

Hiding Roger Epic Fail exposes himself.

Why hide Roger?

Anonymous said...

Will Obama be charged?

Or will his "team" take the hit.

And what about Hillary?

So many crimes, so little time

cowardly king obama said...

Right KD .."objection of justice"

Howling at TDS roger

Anonymous said...

Yep, Roger is too old, too broken and stupid to use today's technology.

He hung himself.

THAT'S WHAT I AM, TRUMP said...

THE WORST PRESIDENT EVER.

They refuse to acknowledge my greatness, Trump said...

BOO HOO HOO.

JAMES'S FUCKING DADDY said...

The POS "pastor" continues losing.

President Trump and America are now winning.

TRUMP 2020

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

https://m.facebook.com/groups/229974393707047?view=permalink&id=2243612152343251

Rev. James Boswell said...

From the Pulpit
James Boswell

A novel
approach to
Jesus

Honest biblical scholarship has revealed realities about the historical Jesus that are not widely shared in churches because they are considered too disturbing. Those realities indicate that Jesus had a number of mistaken expectations about his near future, and if that is true, it means that he was a limited human being -- something which many Christians, especially fundamentalists and Bible literalists, will not admit, for it reveals that Jesus was not "inerrant."

Although that is disturbing, if something is true, it is true. I have tried, therefore, in a recent novel, to be as honest about Jesus as I can and must be. That does not mean that I enjoy being controversial or hurtful. Rather, it means I am convinced that any truth about Jesus should somehow result in good. Somehow, it should. For that reason, I am delighted to learn that there are atheists, skeptics, and members of other world religions who find my depiction of Jesus so convincing that they now believe he really did exist, and are interested in learning more about him. I recommend the "Info" page on my website,www.TheDeadSeaGospel.com, for a listing of some excellent historical Jesus studies now available.

However, I was even more delighted to receive a note from a Christian believer indicating that she also benefited from historical honesty. She wrote, "Your work, The Dead Sea Gospel, genuinely impacted my life with its theologies and perspectives on the historical Jesus. In fact I can't stop thinking about it, and thoughts of it influence and abide in my Lenten reflections. In sum, I find it liberating -- in no way damaging my faith. but rather enhancing it. Thank you.Your book is a gift. I feel indebted to you."

She also said she found the novel's storytelling "stunning. [This] Jesus is radically incarnate, thoroughly and even limitedly human. I find my faith strengthened, not lessened by that fact. And paradoxically, as I encounter Jesus emerging in such (human) form, I find myself grasping and embracing the idea and mystery of atonement as never before! This remarkable novel, grounded in brilliant scholarship, has actually renewed my faith and contributed to my spiritual understanding of Jesus."

I am humbly, deeply grateful for such responses, whether they come from skeptics or from believers. And any "brilliance" in my book is largely attributable to the exceptional studies listed on that "info" page. Good studying to all!
________________
Boswell is a retired Disciples of Christ pastor. He may be contacted on his website.

JAMES'S FUCKING DADDY said...

Great video out showing Obama's royal visit followed by Trump's. Obama was an embarrassement, he tried to toast the queen while they were playing the British anthem and he gave her an iPod of his speeches. Michelle was a wreck. Trump nailed it.

The queen had an extended private meeting with the queen and by all accounts they got on splendidly.

Melania was compared to Princess Diana. An outstanding trip.

Thanks President Trump.

JAMES'S FUCKING DADDY said...

*Trump had an extended meeting with the queen. LOL

JAMES'S FUCKING DADDY said...

What a beautiful day.

What a beautiful week

What a beautiful month

What a beautiful year

What a great first term President Trump


Must suck to be a POS "pastor" nobody cares about.

ROFLMFAO !!!

Anonymous said...



Using executive power to "suppresses" any investigation into the actions of the President, is not included in the Constitution of the United States.

It is objection of justice and the house of representatives has both the obligation and authority to charge the President with high crimes and misdemeanors.



then go for it, 'undercover' alky.

impeach the motherfucker.

quit fucking around.

and bringing john dean in to testify? that tells us this is just political theatre and jabba the nadler is just showboating.

if you guys actually had the case you claim to have, you'd be masturbating to MSDNC's impeachment hearings coverage right now.

Anonymous said...

objection of justice"

Hiding Roger Epic Fail exposes himself.

Why hide Roger?

Commonsense said...

Speaking of bad law;

California Dems agree to full health benefits for many low-income illegal immigrants, in swipe at Trump

State officials have estimated the benefits would be available to about 90,000 low-income illegal immigrants at a cost of $98 million per year.

“While it’s not all we sought, it will provide a real tangible difference for people, especially for those around and below poverty and for middle income families who don’t get any help under the federal law,” Anthony Wright, executive director of advocacy group Health Access, said. Indeed, a family of four earning as much as six times the federal poverty level -- or more than $150,000 a year -- would be eligible to get about $100 a month from the government to help pay their monthly health insurance premiums.

To pay for part of it, the state agreed to start taxing people who don’t have health insurance. It’s a revival of the individual-mandate penalty that had been on the books nationwide under former President Barack Obama’s health-care law until Republicans in Congress eliminated it as part of the 2017 overhaul to the tax code.


Just wondering who is going to pay for it all after the productive people leave.