Tuesday, August 20, 2019

Misleading headline?

Well not really... but is the story misleading? 

 74% of economists in survey see US recession by end of 2021
A strong majority, 74%, of U.S. business economists appear sufficiently concerned about the risks of some of President Donald Trump's economic policies that they expect a recession in the U.S. by the end of 2021.
The economists surveyed by the National Association for Business Economics, in a report released Monday, mostly didn't share Trump's optimistic outlook for the economy, though they generally saw recession coming later than they did in a survey taken in February. Thirty-four percent of the economists surveyed said they believe a slowing economy will tip into recession in 2021. That's up from 25% in the February survey.

Well first of all, the questions asked of the NABE had nothing to do with whether or not they are concerned with Trump's policies. Everyone understands that recessions will happen in some form of a cycle, and that economic policies simply may not prevent them from eventually happening. The only real reference to his policies was a question regarding a possible trade deal with China, which economists were not confident of. Of course, that really isn't an economic question as much as it is a political and negotiation question.

The article implies that economist believe that tariffs and higher deficits are a concern (which seems odd since we have been dealing with tariffs since Trump has been President, and our deficits are running at a lower percent of GDP than they had just a few years ago). But those subjects were not actually addressed in this particular poll. The authors of the article just sort of tossed it in their for effect.

The breakdown:
  • Approximately forty percent see a recession prior to the 2020 election.
  • Approximately a third do not see a recession happening until 2021.
  • Approximately a quarter do not see a recession at all in our immediate future. 

What this represents is actually a slightly less amount of them believing it will happen prior to the election than did six months ago. In February the number was closer to forty five percent believing we would see a recession before the election. So quite obviously the strength of the economy "right now" convinced a few of these economists to push back their predictions.

This is obviously "at odds" with the media's increased attention to the possibility of the recession, since the media seems to act as if the chances have gone up dramatically. The reality is that the economists polled here see the economy as stronger than they did six months ago, and predictions of any recession have been pushed out further into the future.

As a whole, the business economists' recent responses have represented a rebuke of the Trump administration's overall approach to the economy.
Still, for now, most economic signs appear solid. Employers are adding jobs at a steady pace, the unemployment rate remains near a 50-year low and consumers are optimistic. U.S. retail sales figures out last Thursday showed that they jumped in July by the most in four months. 

Again, the idea that this survey is a "rebuke" of Trump's overall approach to the economy is not exactly as self evident as the article would like it to be. The economy at this point is still going plenty strong, and the "blue chip consensus" regarding the third quarter GDP is actually rising as the quarter goes on. These predictions are moving from under the two percent threshold to coming at least a couple tenths above that number. A recession (keep in mind) is defined as two consecutive quarters with negative GDP growth. There is a big difference between two percent and a negative GDP growth.

Things would have to change in a hurry.

38 comments:

anonymous said...

Seems logical to me the panic trump is showing with news of tax cuts and rate decreases to stimulate the economy....I do recall that one bush stimulus where everyone got a hundred bucks to spend.....which Lil Scotty bought some chinese camping equipment....seems to me that really did nothing to growth!!!!! And the inevitable happened anyway....Oh well, keep hoping people....he's heading toward a cliff!!!!!

anonymous said...

A December 2009 study found that only about one-third of the tax rebate was spent, providing only a modest amount of stimulus.[12]

Another study compared the spending patterns of households that received their stimulus payments early on with the spending of patterns of households who had not yet received their payments


I would expect similar results today!!!!

Anonymous said...

Russia Collusion 🔜 Impeachment 🔜 Racism 🔜 Recession 🔜 Re-election.

anonymous said...

Kansas goat fucking fraud...no brains !!!!!

C.H. Truth said...

Gee Denny...

What is wrong with our government trying to stimulate the economy? Perhaps we could try spending another 1.5 trillion on subsidies for green companies and other areas that were not "shovel ready" like we did in 2009. Then we can go back to the ridiculous statistic of "jobs saved" rather than "jobs created" and deficits in the 1.55 TRILLION dollar range!


The reality is that our government should never be just sitting on their collective hands. They should always be looking for ways to stimulate and spur the economy on.

I know this... If I was Trump, I would be pushing for a little short term stimulus and dare the Democrats to block it. It would certainly be a fun 2020 having a bunch of Democrats trying to simultaneously suggest that the economy is tanking while blocking economic stimulus!

Reality is that the Feds will cut rates once or twice between now and next summer, there will be some sort of "deal" in place with China and the economy will "not" be in a recession. Then we will see if people will vote their tangible pocketbooks or for the mirage of free stuff.

anonymous said...


What is wrong with our government trying to stimulate the economy

And what the fuck is wrong with you???? They are stimulating the economy why Lil Scotty???? Because it is roaring along and things are great???? Please... now repeating the mistake of the bush rebates which did nothing but get you some camping equipment ain't the answer.....tariffs and misguided trade wars are driving the discussion and impacting growth....Unless he pulls your head out his ass....all these knee jerks will do nothing as history proves....!!!! Cut rates to what ZERO which will only help the elite but Mc Mansions and do nothing for you!!!!!

anonymous said...

. There is a big difference between two percent and a negative GDP growth.


IOW's Obama's economy did a great service to the US.....finally you admit things were good under previous administration....why did it take the threat of trumps flailing finally convince you???????

Myballs said...

Holy head up his ass Batman, dopie is Roger stupid today.

Commonsense said...

now repeating the mistake of the bush rebates

There's evidence the Bush rebates worked. The now know for certain Obama's stimulus package was an unmitigated disaster.

To truly stimulate the economy, tax cuts are more efficient.]

Myballs said...

Dem silence on the antisemitism of plain and omar is deafening. Meanwhile harry Reid is rippingvthe stupid presidential platforms of Democrat candidates while they and the media try to talk down the economy.

4 more years of Trump and liberal heads exploding.

anonymous said...

There's evidence the Bush rebates worked.


Why don't you provide some of that evidence.......BWAAAAAAAAA!!!! Cramps lies again!!!!

anonymous said...

BTW....the obama stimulus probably prevented the recession becoming a depression....that alone makes it a major success!!!!

anonymous said...

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/crisis-no-more-the-success-of-obamas-stimulus-program/




The tea leaves are clear: The Great Recession will not be a second Great Depression.
And, as I argue below, President Obama’s stimulus package, though imperfect,
deserves a great deal of credit for bringing us back to the positive trajectory we’re on
today. Any reasonable grader of the stimulus’s effects on driving recovery and combating joblessness would give the stimulus at least a B+. In the
pages that follow, I first outline the size and contours of the government’s
response to the recession, paying specific attention
to how this response does and does not differ from government
policy in recessions past. I distinguish between standard and
nonstandard responses, that is, policies typical of those in other
post-war recessions and those that are unusual. Then I consider
the success of the policies and the public’s surprisingly hostile
reaction to them. Voters’ sour views on the stimulus make it
unlikely Congress will extend or expand the program, even if the
economy takes a turn for the worse.

Anonymous said...

Dennis i have the US Constitution .

You have no law or legislation at all.

Ok.

You ran off, why?

Anonymous said...

Denny, as you had kids, did you save and fully fund their college?

Anonymous said...

Russia Collusion 🔜 Impeachment 🔜 Racism 🔜 Recession 🔜 Re-election. (® CS).

anonymous said...

He goat fucker when you had your spawn, why did you raise them as leeches to society like you??????


And I have no law you dumb fuck.....I support enhanced laws being written and passed by congress being held by McConnell

anonymous said...

In a statement released on Sunday, Schumer urged McConnell to call back the Senate and consider a House-passed universal background check law as a first step to addressing the epidemic of mass shootings.
"When President Trump spends more time and energy denouncing Rep. Elijah Cummings and Baltimore than he does denouncing right-wing extremists who often traffic in hate and white nationalism, it shows his priorities are un-American and way off balance," Schumer added, noting Mr. Trump's penchant for attacking Democrats.

Commonsense said...

And, as I argue below, President Obama’s stimulus package, though imperfect,
deserves a great deal of credit for bringing us back to the positive trajectory we’re on


This is unmitigated nonsense as everybody with and ounce of intelligence knows.

For Denny; the stimulus package was passed in 2009 the first year of the Obama Administration.

During the following Obama years GDP growth never exceeded 2.6% and unemployment was in double digits. Obama's own economist said this was the "new normal".

That is the definition of an unmitigated failure.

Anonymous said...




Jim Hanson

Verified account

@Uncle_Jimbo
Follow Follow @Uncle_Jimbo
More
Remember the #DemocraticSocialist convention that devolved into a caricature of PC culture gone mad w/ a snowflake-triggered circular firing squad?

Enter South Park
Who simply animated their insanity
Bravo


https://twitter.com/Uncle_Jimbo/status/1163853323147108352?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1163853323147108352&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Face.mu.nu%2F

Anonymous said...



During the following Obama years GDP growth never exceeded 2.6% and unemployment was in double digits. Obama's own economist said this was the "new normal".

That is the definition of an unmitigated failure.



my favorite part was watching the callous prick giggling like a child while admitting that there was nothing even remotely "shovel ready" about the porkulous.

Anonymous said...




so let's say for the sake of argument that we really are going into a recession.

so far the democrat economic policy has been -

open borders

medicaid for all

free college

forgive all student loan debt

free healthcare for illegals

free college for illegals

a $1000/month universal basic income

a green nude eel.

all in we're taking probably $70-$80 TRILLION over the next decade.

THAT'S supposed to pull us out of this impending recession???


that's not just stupid. that's alky-stupid.


anonymous said...

Rat the ag school drop once again proves why he dropped out!!!!!!

so far the democrat economic policy has been -

open borders

anonymous said...


This is unmitigated nonsense as everybody with and ounce of intelligence knows.


The HS drop out without a shred of evidence disses the words of a noted economist...who the fuck to believe!!!!! BWAAAAAAAAA!!!!! Still looking for your evidence of busch stimulus was a success.....Too fucking stupid for words....!!!

Anonymous said...




"When President Trump spends more time and energy denouncing Rep. Elijah Cummings and Baltimore than he does denouncing right-wing extremists who often traffic in hate and white nationalism, it shows his priorities are un-American and way off balance," Schumer added, noting Mr. Trump's penchant for attacking Democrats.


the crips, bloods and other african american gang-banging, drug-dealing allstars kill more people in a weekend across all our major urban centers in the country than right-wing extremists do in ten years.



Myballs said...

Even Rush talked about the fake recession news today. It's a bogus story. The payroll tax story is made up fake news. The Democrat media is worried because Trump has a great economy, especially for minorities.

Retired Orrin G. Hatch said...


Jon McNaughton has released a new Trump painting called “The Masterpiece.”

https://twitter.com/RetiredOrrin/status/1163927326889058311

C.H. Truth said...

It was a 1.5 trillion dollar waste of money. A give away to liberal special interest groups and an investment in "green technology" that still hasn't gone anywhere. The only part that worked at all was the $275 billion in tax cuts and tax incentives.

Comparing it to nothing other than what the Obama administration said it would do... it was a dismal failure.

Pull My Finger said...

@NonUtopian

Let me see if I have this straight... In San Francisco, plastic straws and bottles are bad, but handing out free plastic syringes to the homeless people shitting in the streets is an good use of taxpayers money.

Anonymous said...

Dennis, you want a gun law that will not stop a single mass shooting.

Gotcha.

Anonymous said...

Front Runner Creepy Joe.

"Biden, who returned to the campaign trail this week after being waylaid by a string of gaffes, told voters during an event in the early caucus state he was not worried about the crowds his more liberal opponents were drawing.

“What I’m trying to do is go around from town to town. And I’m drawing as big of crowds — bigger than anybody,” he said. “Have you seen anybody draw bigger crowds than me here in this state?”"



Anonymous said...

Bingo
"Former Rep. John Delaney (D-MD), a 2020 presidential hopeful, on Tuesday discussed the field of presidential candidates, saying most of his opponents are running on “impossible promises and fairy-tale economics” — a sentiment he has previously shared regarding Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) and Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)."

Anonymous said...




Comparing it to nothing other than what the Obama administration said it would do... it was a dismal failure.


or a smashing success when one looks at who it was really supposed to serve -

a significant portion of the 'shovel ready' $$$ washed thru public sector and teachers unions. the cash for clunkers $$$ flooded into the UAW, while at the same time fucking the bond holders who were actually left holding the bag for the auto makers failures.

the green energy $$$ was bullshit from the start, and only went to serve the eco-fuckwits special interests.

ultimately, what 0linsky publicly said it would do WAS a failure. but it's private intent? a smashing success. one cannot be too cynical when seeking the real motive for a democrat policy.

Anonymous said...

The authors of the new Green Deal got caught. They said it is about control of the people and wealth, NOT the enviroment.

Anonymous said...

"Comparing it to nothing other than what the Obama administration said it would do... it was a dismal failure."

Cash for clunkers took millions and millions of spare affordable parts off of the market hurting the finances of the very poor.

Commonsense said...

The HS drop out without a shred of evidence disses the words of a noted economist...

I actually graduated high school. 😊😊😊

And the evidence was laid out specifically for you Denny. To willfully ignore it takes on a whole new level of stupid.

Joel B. Pollak said...

@joelpollak

We haven’t even had one quarter of negative growth yet. I don’t recall media obsessing over recession when real GDP growth hit negative territory for a quarter under Obama in Q1 2014. I remember lots of talk about weather. Part of this is a deliberate effort to bring down Trump.

Catturd said...

@catturd2

DOW up 263 ... according to liberals - that means no recession today.

These people have the IQ of a buffalo fart.