Sunday, January 28, 2018

The new liberal Jeffry Toobin legal logic?

So the oft wrong Jeffrey Toobin wrote an interesting piece about how he now believes that "it's clear" that Trump obstructed Justice. The logic of the Toobin argument attempts to draw on the basic concept of  simple action vs action with intent... but with one pretty clear logical error.

He appears to be missing the action.

He correctly suggests that there is a difference between a company insider just selling stock because they just needed some cash, and a company insider selling stock because they have inside information that tells them that the stock price is about to go down. The former is simply an action. The latter is an action that includes criminal intent. Of course, inside trading laws are clearly written, and there are concrete factors that play into the legality of a trade. Thus, the issue isn't proving intent so much, it's still about proving that the person had inside information. You prove the facts relevant to the law, and intent follows. That's generally how laws are written. They are not written as open ended psychological questions. 

Toobin doesn't want to talk about the facts of the law, because quite frankly the law itself doesn't address the tangible actions taken. So Toobin's farcical logic is to reduce the actual facts of the law and the actual action taken place to irrelevancy, while elevating the intent into the only thing that matters.

Toobin appears to be piggy backing to some degree on the Comey argument that Clinton's actions (while clearly criminal) were not actually criminal because they lacked intent... by arguing that even if no criminal action was taken, that criminal intent can create a crime. This, of course, would effectively turn our entire legal inside out, likely with the need to replace investigators with psychologist in order to determine who is actually committing a crime.

Imagine for a second, a person being deemed guilty of a crime because they showed some sort of willingness to do so, while never following through. Would we arrest someone for driving under the influence, because they wanted to drive home from the bar, but was eventually talked out of it by concerned friends? Of course not. The criminal act never took place.

But according to Toobin, the very suggestion that Donald Trump had to be talked out of firing Robert Mueller as special counsel shows "intent" to commit a criminal act, and that intent (not the actual action) is what's important.

But even if one was willing move past the fact that Donald Trump didn't actually fire Robert Mueller (which is the only tangible fact we have right now) you still have no actual evidence that Trump's motive would have been  to "obstruct justice". The rumors were that Trump wanted Mueller out (meaning a different person could still continue the investigation) and those same rumors suggested that Trump provided specific reasons for why.

Here is the reality, folks.

Nearly everyone (across the political spectrum) at some point in time believed that James Comey needed to be fired. Whether it was for his decision to make a public statement not recommending charges against Hillary Clinton, whether it be reopening the Clinton investigation right before the election, or whether it be how he was handling the Russian collusion investigation... Comey was questioned by everyone. Simply put, he not the right man to lead the FBI forward. There was no broad confidence in him from the American public.

Furthermore, there are numerous legal experts (across the spectrum) who believe that Robert Mueller is too close (as a former FBI director and personal friend of James Comey) to an investigation that calls into question FBI tactics, the actions of his friend, as well as being the person who may be judging the reasons his friend got fired. Many believe he is the wrong person to be leading this special counsel, thus tainting the entire investigation.

Those are legitimate, if not prevailing views. At worst, they would be political disagreements. Toobin wants to turn these opinions into something criminal, because he sees something more nefarious as the true reasons for the President (and by logic anyone) questioning Comey and Mueller. He's quite literally blinded by his own partisanship and hatred for the President, that his mind cannot process that legitimate reasons exist for actions to be taken (or not taken in this case). Therefor, it should "be clear" to everyone that it's all criminal.

James Comey rewrote the laws and provided his own personal psychological evaluation to demand Hillary Clinton didn't commit the crime she tangibly and unquestionably committed. Toobin is suggesting that we rewrite the law and allow people who think like him to provide psychological evaluation to demand that Donald Trump committed a crime that he tangibly and unquestionably didn't actually commit.

This is not how criminal justice works. You cannot quite literally make up new definitions for a crime, replace objective law with subjective opinion as your determining factor for innocence or guilt... simply because you favor one Presidential candidate over another.



50 comments:

wphamilton said...

Toobin's reasoning is exactly right, at least in his general thesis. No matter what distinctions you're trying to draw around "actions" (which aren't even legal concepts in this context, but apparently your own invention), it is fundamental and inescapable that the law relates to ANY ACTION, which corruptly attempts to impede the administration of justice.

That is the letter of the law, CH. The intent is central to establishing the crime. I understand that you may not approve of the law (though I don't understand WHY you object), but you cannot re-write it on that basis.

C.H. Truth said...

Sorry WP...

But in order for a prosecutor to charge someone with "any" crime, you have to be able to prove that crime was committed "beyond a reasonable doubt".

You and Toobin both live in a world where if you can imagine it, then it must be the truth, and therefor illegal. Moreover, by trying to argue that perfectly legal actions were illegal because of a belief regarding motive... it requires you to prove that the motive was nefarious "beyond a reasonable doubt".

So logically...

In order for Trump to have committed a crime, a reasonable prosecutor would have to believe that the "only" reasonable explanation for Trump's actions was a blatant attempt to obstruct justice. Not only does the prosecutor have to believe this personally, but they have to believe that they can convince 12 random Americans that the "only" reasonable explanation for Trump's actions was a blatant attempt to obstruct justice.

Considering a significant portion of our population not only accepts the explanation give for firing Comey, but agrees with it... trying to convince 12 random Americans that these explanations were not reasonable... seems like it can only really come from very severe cognitive dissonance.

C.H. Truth said...

WP...

Let me ask you this.

An executive sells stock during a time period that is otherwise legally allowed to. But it turns out that prior to that particular sale of the stock, that certain other executives in the company were given some inside information that would have led them to believe that the price of stock was going to go down.

Now one could make an assumption that the executive in question made that sale based on his receiving this inside information second hand from one of the other executives or otherwise hearing about it. It would certainly cast suspicion.

But in order to prove that this executive engaged in insider trading, would a prosecutor be allowed just to allege that it must be true, or would a certain finding of fact have to be shown? Wouldn't there have to be some evidence presented that this person was told or otherwise found out about it?

Seems to me... that the law would be pretty clear. That no jury should convict someone of a crime without tangible evidence, simply because the prosecutor provided them with an unsubstantiated theory that it could be a crime.

Or do you disagree?

Or would you generally agree, but disagree when it comes to Trump?

James said...

Look up Jeffrey Toobin in Wiki.
He has established a solid reputation
as a researcher and commentator.

James said...

Click on Ch's link and read the entire NYT article, whick ends:
_______
McGahn recognized the key fact—that Trump wanted to fire Mueller for the wrong reasons. Trump wanted to fire Mueller because his investigation was threatening to him. This, of course, also illuminates the reasons behind Trump’s firing of Comey, which took place just a month before the President’s confrontation with McGahn regarding Mueller. Trump and his advisers have offered various tortured rationalizations for the firing of Comey—initially, for example, on the ground that Comey had been unfair to Hillary Clinton during the 2016 campaign. Trump himself came clean in an interview with NBC’s Lester Holt and in a meeting with Russia’s foreign minister. In both, Trump acknowledged that he fired Comey to stall or stop the Russia investigation—that is, the investigation of Trump himself and his campaign.
This was an improper purpose, and McGahn clearly saw that the same improper purpose underlay Trump’s determination to fire Mueller. So McGahn issued the ultimatum that prompted the President to back down.

Mueller and his team surely have evidence on obstruction of justice that has not yet been made public. But even on the available evidence, Trump’s position looks perilous indeed. The portrait is of a President using every resource at his disposal to shut down an investigation—of Trump himself. And now it has become clear that Trump’s own White House counsel rebelled at the President’s rationale for his actions.

Abundant questions remain about Trump’s fate in the Mueller investigation. Can or will a sitting President be indicted? What, if anything, will the House of Representatives do with respect to its impeachment powers? In what forum and format will the public see the full range of the evidence against the President? But on perhaps the most important question of all—whether the President of the United States committed the crime of obstruction of justice—the answer now seems clear.
__________________
Jeffrey Toobin has been a staff writer at The New Yorker since 1993 and the senior legal analyst for CNN since 2002. He is the author of “The Oath: The Obama White House and the Supreme Court.”

Myballs said...

If a guy leaves a bar after drinking, would like to drive home but doesn't, toobin and wp think he's guilty nonetheless.

It's absurd.

wphamilton said...

But in order for a prosecutor to charge someone with "any" crime, you have to be able to prove that crime was committed "beyond a reasonable doubt".


I know that you won't accept the fact, because I've pointed it out before, but to be blunt: this is specious reasoning which has no legal foundation. Obstruction does not require an inherently illegal action, period. You need to find another argument, because this one simply doesn't work and isn't even persuasive otherwise.

No matter how much you *want* it to be different, that's the law. It's the way it is written, it's the way it's prosecuted, and it's the way courts interpret it.

wphamilton said...

You folks are again ignoring the fundamental element of "corrupt intent". Deliberately? I don't know why, but it is consistent in every one of your posts.

It's not *easy* to prove corrupt intent (or any intent) when a person potentially other reasons for the action. What all of you are misunderstanding is that "potentially other reasons" does NOT disprove the criminal intent. If and when Mueller demonstrates the intent to obstruct, rather than intent for other reasons, then he has a case for obstruction of justice. CH and others here act as if it's a slam dunk that Trump *could* fire Comey for misconduct, or other reasons, as if that by itself proves that he had no intention of disrupting an investigation. It's both a logical and legal fail - you're simply wrong about it. Massive case history disproves you. Legal experts dispute you. The law itself is clear enough to dispute you.

Trump hasn't made it any easier on himself, with his various public statements that he DID intend to disrupt the investigation. Statements that he *wanted* to fire Mueller to end the investigation. These statements speak to his intent. Not enough for adequate proof, IMO, but in support of other evidence these statements of intent are significant.

You can bet that some Republican politicians will trot out that argument that Trump "has the right" to fire whomever, and it may sway a few of the electorate, but you can be assured that the argument fails in courts, in Congress, just as it fails here.

wphamilton said...

But in order to prove that this executive engaged in insider trading, would a prosecutor be allowed just to allege that it must be true, or would a certain finding of fact have to be shown

In your example, the prosecution would have to demonstrate that the executive had knowledge of the inside information. They would have to show also that the executive intentionally used the information for his trading strategy.

The executive can't get away just by claiming that he could sell the stock anyway, or that he didn't like the dividends, if he knew the information beforehand and wanted to sell before the price dropped. This discussion isn't helping your argument with respect to Trump. In fact, if you insist on a strict analogy, it's worse for you. The SEC needs establish "intent" only to the extent that the Executive knew the ramifications of the information, and intended to use that information even partly for that reason. By your analogy, if it held (it doesn't, but it's YOUR analogy( nothing more would need be proven. Trump already knew that firing Comey would impede the Russia investigation. It's a lower bar than "corrupt intent".

Jeffrey Toobin said...

James Boswell of Normal, Illinois is a pedophile.

C.H. Truth said...

No matter how much you *want* it to be different, that's the law. It's the way it is written, it's the way it's prosecuted, and it's the way courts interpret it.

Yet, nobody has ever been charged with obstruction for firing an FBI director.

So once again... WP is 100% wrong on fact.

C.H. Truth said...

The SEC needs establish "intent" only to the extent that the Executive knew the ramifications of the information, and intended to use that information even partly for that reason. By your analogy, if it held (it doesn't, but it's YOUR analogy( nothing more would need be proven. Trump already knew that firing Comey would impede the Russia investigation. It's a lower bar than "corrupt intent".

Except under your analogy, every law enforcement agent or any prosecutor could be charged with a crime every time they decided not to pursue a suspect, not to further investigate, or not to charge someone with a crime... because not doing so might be considered "obstruction" by someone else who had determined that the person in question should be pursued, investigated, or charged. The possibilities exist where a simple transfer of someone could be construed as obstruction because some case that person is working on might otherwise be dropped or not pursued with the same vigor.

There absolutely has to be a corrupt motive, WP... and that is required both in the case of insider trading or in the case of obstruction.

That is not even a question or an implication in my analogy.

The simple question in my analogy is whether or not the corrupt motive needs to be established above and beyond a simple "theory" as to the motive.


Your answer here:

In your example, the prosecution would have to demonstrate that the executive had knowledge of the inside information. They would have to show also that the executive intentionally used the information for his trading strategy.

Is the correct one, and that is what would be required to prosecute Trump. You would have to prove that Trump's intent was not to fire Comey for the reasons that were given... but that his intent was purely a matter of nefarious intent... in order to disrupt an investigation.

Given that Comey told him personally that he was not under investigation, and given that his own counsel suggested that firing Comey would probably "broaden" not "limit" the investigation into Russian collusion... there is really no evidence that Trump fired him for anything other than the reasons he provided.

I think the major problem here, WP...

Is you simply refuse to acknowledge that there is no actual evidence that Trump fired Comey to hamper the investigation, and rather you make your arguments built on some assumption that there is.

There isn't. None has been established. There is only a working theory in place... and working theories are not evidence.

wphamilton said...

Yet, nobody has ever been charged with obstruction for firing an FBI director.

So once again... WP is 100% wrong on fact.


That's one weird "fact" - did I say that someone had? LOL that's the only way that I could be "wrong on fact" based on that statement!

People HAVE been charged with obstruction for firing employees. Case law doesn't help you here. Once again 100% RIGHT on fact.

wphamilton said...

Except under your analogy, every law enforcement agent or any prosecutor could be charged with a crime every time they decided not to pursue a suspect, not to further investigate, or not to charge someone with a crime...

Under MY analogy? WTH! I told you that the analogy fails, and it's YOUR analogy not mine.


Do you have an idea of what "corrupt intent" might mean? Seriously, because this sounds like you're literally attaching no meaning to it, and just pretending that it's not there.


And this, that you wrote here, is a big does-not-follow. There is no rhyme nor reason with whatever it is you're going on about here. There is no rational way to get that statement, and Trump is not investigating, and you're reacting to a 100% correct description of the law, not any hypothetical. Are you just making things up to waste my time? Maybe it's a poor summary of something you read? Are you mixing up arguments?

C.H. Truth said...

So WP... Maybe if you ask a few more irrelevant questions... you will convince someone that you proved a point?

Bottom line:

- The President has authority to fire an FBI director.
- The President in this case fired an FBI director for well documented and fully explained reasoning.

You cannot charge someone with a crime for using their authority to fire someone for good cause.

Those are the facts. Period.

Everything else is a "theory" (bordering on conspiracy theory) with zero evidence behind it. That is the reason that you love to take this in 1001 different directions, argue semantics, and otherwise try to muddy it all up. It's your own attempt at slight of hand, because the straight forward argument doesn't work so well for you...

does it?

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Nearly everyone (across the political spectrum) at some point in time believed that James Comey needed to be fired.

A genius at work who created an opinion shared by a majority of the members of Congress?

You obviously don't like the comments I've been saying recently, but that is a complete fabrication designed to deceive.

I wasn't fooled.

Teresa Dulyea-Parker said...

James Boswell of Normal, Illinois is a pedophile.

wphamilton said...

You think that "corrupt intent" is an irrelevant question???

I'm going to have to give up on you, CH, if you can't do better than that.

Anonymous said...

Yes, butt.....

Anonymous said...

HB was the first here to call for Comey's firing, that was pre election loss 2016.

Anonymous said...

Winning Bigly.
Campbell Soup moving plant from Canada back to USA.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

wp, I have been trying to get past his stone wall for sometime since Trump won.

"I'm going to have to give up on you, CH, if you can't do better than that."

It's quite frustrating. He creates scenarios that are not based upon fact, but opinion. Liberals suck and are hypocritical. And that he's going along on everything the defenders of the President come up with. They believe that the FBI has been dedicated to the destruction of the President. That's absolutely bonkers.

There is no way to break down that wall. Ronald Reagan would be absolutely opposed to the President, who is running his office like The Apprentice. Your Fired.

Don't give up. CH can't fire either one of us.

Anonymous said...

CH can't fire either one of us.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


no, but he sure can block your worthless ass and ignore you.

idiot.

Anonymous said...

You obviously don't like the comments I've been saying recently, but that is a complete fabrication designed to deceive.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


alky,

you act like your 'comments' have meaning. they don't. for fucks sake, 90+% are copy/paste's anyway. so who the fuck do you think you're impressing with your indignation?

go back to fakebook and whine about trump's inauguration day crowd size remarks.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Nearly everyone (across the political spectrum) at some point in time believed that James Comey needed to be fired. Whether it was for his decision to make a public statement not recommending charges against Hillary Clinton, whether it be reopening the Clinton investigation right before the election, or whether it be how he was handling the Russian collusion investigation... Comey was questioned by everyone. Simply put, he not the right man to lead the FBI forward. There was no broad confidence in him from the American public.

Furthermore, there are numerous legal experts (across the spectrum) who believe that Robert Mueller is too close (as a former FBI director and personal friend of James Comey) to an investigation that calls into question FBI tactics, the actions of his friend, as well as being the person who may be judging the reasons his friend got fired. Many believe he is the wrong person to be leading this special counsel, thus tainting the entire investigation.

Those are legitimate, if not prevailing views. At worst, they would be political disagreements. Toobin wants to turn these opinions into something criminal, because he sees something more nefarious as the true reasons for the President (and by logic anyone) questioning Comey and Mueller. He's quite literally blinded by his own partisanship and hatred for the President, that his mind cannot process that legitimate reasons exist for actions to be taken (or not taken in this case). Therefor, it should "be clear" to everyone that it's all criminal.

James Comey rewrote the laws and provided his own personal psychological evaluation to demand Hillary Clinton didn't commit the crime she tangibly and unquestionably committed. Toobin is suggesting that we rewrite the law and allow people who think like him to provide psychological evaluation to demand that Donald Trump committed a crime that he tangibly and unquestionably didn't actually commit.

-----------

Every single one of those I highlighted are false claims, not backed by the facts, but the opinion of CH. But he falsely claimed that they are facts.

wp is more articulate than I am. But we both know that for reasons unknown, he does this all the time, since Trump became the President.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

rrb can kiss my liver.

You helped pay for it. 😈😈😈😈😈😈😈
😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

I have been busy and didn't have time to comment on this pile of feces. Not Mr racist rodent bigot, that the only c/p was from the host.

I'm sure that you wish he would block away here too. Just like he allows your fat ass on the top..

But I've been enjoying exposing Mr "Shoot them all, men, women and children, and let them rot, as a warning to any other Beaners who might try to cross the border"

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Fakebook lies for the racist rodent Birther only one month in!!!!!

President Trump
First 10 months
Jan. 21, 2017.“I wasn't a fan of Iraq. I didn't want to go into Iraq.” (He was for an invasion before he was against it.)
Jan. 21, 2017.“A reporter for Time magazine — and I have been on their cover 14 or 15 times. I think we have the all-time record in the history of Time magazine.” (Trump was on the cover 11 times and Nixon appeared 55 times.)
Jan. 23, 2017.“Between 3 million and 5 million illegal votes caused me to lose the popular vote.” (There's no evidence of illegal voting.)
Jan. 25, 2017.“Now, the audience was the biggest ever. But this crowd was massive. Look how far back it goes. This crowd was massive.” (Official aerial photos show Obama's 2009 inauguration was much more heavily attended.)
Jan. 25, 2017.“Take a look at the Pew reports (which show voter fraud.)” (The report never mentioned voter fraud.)
Jan. 25, 2017.“You had millions of people that now aren't insured anymore.” (The real number is less than 1 million, according to the Urban Institute.)
Jan. 25, 2017.“So, look, when President Obama was there two weeks ago making a speech, very nice speech. Two people were shot and killed during his speech. You can't have that.” (There were no gun homicide victims in Chicago that day.)
Jan. 26, 2017.“We've taken in tens of thousands of people. We know nothing about them. They can say they vet them. They didn't vet them. They have no papers. How can you vet somebody when you don't know anything about them and you have no papers? How do you vet them? You can't.” (Vetting lasts up to two years.)
Jan. 26, 2017.“I cut off hundreds of millions of dollars off one particular plane, hundreds of millions of dollars in a short period of time. It wasn't like I spent, like, weeks, hours, less than hours, and many, many hundreds of millions of dollars. And the plane's going to be better.” (Most of the cuts were already planned.)
Jan. 28, 2017.“The coverage about me in the @nytimes and the @washingtonpost has been so false and angry that the Times actually apologized to its dwindling subscribers and readers.” (It never apologized.)
Jan. 29, 2017.“The Cuban-Americans, I got 84 percent of that vote.” (There is no support for this.)
Jan. 30, 2017.“Only 109 people out of 325,000 were detained and held for questioning. Big problems at airports were caused by Delta computer outage.” (At least 746 people were detained and processed, and the Delta outage happened two days later.)
Feb later

Anonymous said...

I'm sure that you wish he would block away here too.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


not at all, alky. for the same reason i want to see you live to be 100; you provide too much comic relief around here.

But I've been enjoying exposing Mr

alky, you expose nothing but your own idiocy around here. you haven't had a compelling comeback to CH or me since yahoo soars. you're an intellectual weakling who must rely upon copy/paste's from news and public forums to form an opposing view, and without fakebook you wouldn't be able to dress yourself or take nourishment.

for chrissakes, mail order probably has to strap on your bone-colored velcro sneakers every morning. and that's when SHE'S not in the ER or the medicaid wing of the hospital trying to score you some opioids.

you see alky, you have a cripple card hanging from the rear view when you drive, and you have a virtual cyber cripple card on display every time you pop up around here.


btw, i saw "12 strong" yesterday. you wouldn't like it. the taliban loses.


wphamilton said...

Don't give up. CH can't fire either one of us.

Who cares Roger? He has enjoyed the privilege of our contributions, but he's abusing it lately.

Anonymous said...

Who cares Roger?
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

roger cares. deeply. if this blog were to go dark roger would be dead in 6 months.

Anonymous said...

WP is 100% wrong on fact." CHT

The left does care about facts, they do live in the land of emotions.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

wp, so true. He has changed since Trump was elected.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The back pain procedure was successful. I don't take Norco. Besides idiot, I have the prescription.

Roger Amick said...

James Boswell of Normal, Illinois is a pedophile.

Anonymous said...

Every single one of those I highlighted are false claims, not backed by the facts, but the opinion of CH. But he falsely claimed that they are facts.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


ok, genius...

pick them apart one by one and show us explicitly where CH is wrong.

you see alky, this is why i think you're an asshole. you make a claim such as you did here, you back it up with exactly zero evidence to support your position, and you think that by simply declaring CH to be wrong you have, by default, won the argument.

that's not how this works.

CH has provided us with his point of view. backed up and substantiated with a thread of logic and purpose.

you, on the other hand, have simply provided us with a declaration that CH is wrong. no substantive facts, no framework of an opposing viewpoint, nothing to support your claim. your only effort has been to use wp as a sort of crutch. seeing as you need a walker to be ambulatory, it's ironic that you would need a crutch around here to bolster your non-existent argument.







C.H. Truth said...

Roger - Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi (to name three prominent Democrats) all demanded that Comey had lost their respect, and many Democrats (Cohen, Waters, etc...) called on him to resign. Reid wrote a letter flat out claiming that Comey broke the law.

NY Daily News, ThinkProgress, Newsweek, and several other news outlets wrote editorials calling on Comey to resign.

Do you have a memory problem?

James said...

Wp and Roger drive rat crazy.

Cowardly Obama said...

James is a pedophile and Ch Truth sucks dicks.

James said...

Re Ch Truth at 8:50

He lost their respect before he gained their respect back.
Do you have a logic problem?

Anonymous said...

Reid wrote a letter flat out claiming that Comey broke the law.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


as did rod rosenstein himself.

cowardly king obama said...

answer the phone "pastor" jimmy

HELL IS CALLING YOU and they have your number

what a disgusting POS of a "pastor"

C.H. Truth said...

He lost their respect before he gained their respect back.

When you accuse someone of criminal behavior, or call on them to resign... there is no defensible reason to simply say "never mind" a few months later simply because the new President now agrees with your former position.

Ultimately, as the FBI directory you need to hold the confidence of the President and A.G. Comey didn't have it.


commie said...

Rat the douche posts another POS

Reid wrote a letter flat out claiming that Comey broke the law.

So fucking what!!!! Moore proof that certifies you are an idiot.....

James said...

as the FBI director you need to hold the confidence of the President

Not when the President is of the opinion that serving him comes before all else.

Commonsense said...

You have no real understanding of what "serving at the pleasure of the President of the United States" is.

And I'm sure you would love some super bureaucracy that is unaccountable to the president and is above the law.

But that's not how it works. Every single bureaucrat in the executive branch is responsible to the President of the United States and the president is accountable to the people. That's how it's suppose to work.

The very idea of an "independent counsel" or an independent anything is the real constitution crisis.

It's perverts Madison's system of checks and balances and create unaccountable government.

C.H. Truth said...

Sorry James...

You can disagree with your boss all you want. But ultimately your boss will win that argument every time. Comey was not Trump's equal or peer or someone independent of the President.

Comey was a subordinate to the President.

That might not mean much in the topsy turvy fantasy world you would like to live in. But in the real world, it means something.

Anonymous said...




The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.

- Ronald Reagan

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

CH. Everyone of you comments on Comey occurred during the campaign. When he released information that put the nail in the coffin.

Get educated. This high school graduate is picking you apart.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

During the campaign.

Roger - Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi (to name three prominent Democrats) all demanded that Comey had lost their respect, and many Democrats (Cohen, Waters, etc...) called on him to resign. Reid wrote a letter flat out claiming that Comey broke the law.

NY Daily News, ThinkProgress, Newsweek, and several other news outlets wrote editorials calling on Comey to resign.

Do you have a memory problem?

I don't.

You?