and may have already done so...
But sometimes the winner and loser of a situation (that doesn't otherwise keep score on a scoreboard)... has more to do with who has the most to gain and who has the most to lose. The reality is that Donald Trump (already dealing with four investigations that have been going on since before he was elected President) doesn't have that much else to lose in this fight.
The fact is that the President's approval ratings appear to have both a built in ceiling and a built in floor. More so than any previous President, the opinions about him are pretty set in stone. He might move up or down a few points here or there, but figure him to stay in the low forties almost regardless of what happens (good or bad).
What the FBI declares about him, or what former FBI Director Robert Mueller declares about him will be taken with a grain of salt either way. If Mueller suggests he did something illegal, Trump supporters will brush it off as partisan and personal. If Mueller ultimately clears him of any criminal wrongdoing, Donald Trump haters will just declare that he didn't dig deep enough.
Ultimately what is at stake here is the credibility of the FBI way more than the credibility of the President. The FBI as an organization has been possibly the most revered organization in our government. No more. They are being questioned by nearly half of America and probably for good reason. The reputation of the FBI will likely take a hit. It's only a question of how much of a hit.
Ultimately what is at stake here is the credibility of the FBI way more than the credibility of the President. The FBI as an organization has been possibly the most revered organization in our government. No more. They are being questioned by nearly half of America and probably for good reason. The reputation of the FBI will likely take a hit. It's only a question of how much of a hit.
Ironically, these arguments coming from the left talking about how the FBI will ultimately "get Trump" are actually very damaging to the FBI in and of themselves. The simple argument that the FBI will fuck with people for personal reasons is exactly the sort of thing that will reaffirm Trump supporters that Trump is the victim of personal FBI attacks. In a strange way, it's literally the same argument viewed from a different perspective. Ultimately it's odd that Democrats and the liberal media will make these sorts of arguments (which by nature damages the FBI) while simultaneously accusing Trump the the GOP of attacking the FBI... for doing what they themselves suggest that the FBI would do?
The "only" way that the FBI and special counsel comes out of this reasonably unscathed is if they undercover real actual proof of high level Trump campaign involvement with the Russian hacking of the emails, or some other coordination with the ultimate release of them. Something that both reinforces their decision to spend so much capital and time on this issue, and is actually illegal. Coming up short on the Russian Trump collusion front will greatly strengthen the case that this was a partisan witch hunt from the beginning.
The worst case scenario for the FBI is if they find no "collusion" but Mueller chooses to push something different against Trump (such as obstruction) without providing smoking gun beyond all reasonable doubt proof. No doubt that Mueller would do severe damage to the cause by floating an abstract accusation of obstruction that is left up to any sort of interpretation or opinion. If the central aspect of Mueller's case is the firing of his buddy Jame's Comey, it would look like pay back for firing an FBI Director. Anything short of a taped conversation or confession from Trump that he was looking to obstruct justice would fall on deaf ears to many Americans (as it should). Moreover, it would certainly help to affirm the argument that the FBI is engaging in a partisan personal attack against someone simply because that person had the audacity to criticize and fire one of their own.
Right now the FBI and the Mueller investigation are not really working from a position of power, as much as some would like to argue that they are. In fact, they appear to be between a rock and a hard place. If they cannot come up with the goods on Russian Trump collusion, then the investigation looks partisan. If they attempt to charge more Trump campaign aids with process or unrelated crimes, then they prove the witch hunt cries. If they attempt to say Trump broke the law without absolute truth, it looks like petty partisan payback. If they do none of the above, then they will appear impotent to the Trump haters.
64 comments:
Politico
WHITE HOUSE
Russia probe lawyers think Mueller could indict Trump
Many legal scholars doubt a U.S. vs. Trump case is possible, but two attorneys who have dealt with special counsel Robert Mueller's team disagree. One expects Mueller to move as early as this spring.
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The article concludes:
Philip Allen Lacovara, who served as a top counsel to the two Watergate special prosecutors, said he believes Mueller could seek an indictment against Trump, but only if the facts suggest a “slam dunk” case against the president.
Lacovara dismissed the Clinton Justice Department memo’s contention that an indictment would interfere with the president’s official duties.
“When an incumbent president, whether it’s Bush or Obama or Trump, spends an enormous amount of time on the golf course, it’s a little bit fanciful to say the president can’t be called to account for alleged criminality because he’s got to be available 24 hours a day to be president,” he said.
One of the Russia defense attorneys also suggested what he called a “jujitsu move”: naming Trump as an unindicted co-conspirator in a larger obstruction of justice case that targets one or more associates.
Whatever Mueller and his deputies have planned, the attorney said, it is not likely to be anticlimactic.
Whatever Mueller and his deputies have planned, the attorney said, it is not likely to be anticlimactic.
“There’s a sense of confidence I feel when I’m with them,” said the same lawyer. “Their level of confidence has grown, and that’s a body language thing.”
Senator John CornynVerified account
@JohnCornyn
1) I respect the men and women of the FBI and DOJ; 2) I respect both former Director Mueller and current Director Wray; and 3) I believe an impartial ethics investigation of leadership of both organizations during last administration is essential to restore public confidence
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Notice nothing about Comey or Obama, but a need for an impartial ethics investigation of both organizations under Obama. I agree
You got suckered, and since your head is so far up Trump's rectum, you couldn't see it.
The release of the memo mattered less than #releasethememo.
After weeks of buildup, the three-and-a-half-page document about alleged F.B.I. abuses during the 2016 presidential campaign made public on Friday was broadly greeted with criticism, including by some Republicans. They said it cherry-picked information, made false assertions and was overly focused on an obscure, low-level Trump campaign adviser, Carter Page. And boy did you buy in.
It didn’t live up to the hype.
But the campaign, captured in the hashtag #releasethememo, which was trending on Twitter for days, may have a far more significant impact than the memo’s contents. It was a choreographed effort by House Republicans and top White House officials to push a highly contentious theme — that the F.B.I. and the Justice Department abused their powers to spy on the Trump campaign, and relied on dodgy information from a former British spy paid by Democratic operatives.
What began as an ember more than two weeks ago was fanned into a blaze by conservative media titans, presidential tweets and Republican lawmakers urging people to use social media to pressure Congress to make the memo’s contents public. “I invite everybody to use the hashtag #releasethememo,” Representative Raúl Labrador, the Idaho Republican, said on Fox News during the campaign’s infancy, adding that Americans would be “shocked” when the memo was released.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/02/us/politics/memo-trump-nunes.html
If Trump is charged the Trump lovers will go into shack, because the scam designed to block the investigation to it's conclusion will be left to try and claim this whole thing was a "Witch Hunt". They will claim that the "Fake News" lied to everyone. And when the majority of Americans, who didn't vote for him and approximately 60% of us real Americans will be laughing at your sorry face.
I should have been more specific, an investigation of the LEADERSHIP of both organizations under Obama. The politicization appears criminal.
"cherry-picked information"
I saw a report on One American News showing all the major news outlets, MSNBC and CNN all using this same phrase in regards to the memo story. Coincidence? or are they just now mouthpieces with a coordinated message? And they don't realize how obvious it has become, except to partisan democrats.
Thank God for PRESIDENT TRUMP
There is no credible evidence of politicization.
Unless you believe the "evidence" in the memo.
You must have missed the IRS apology letter this week, the hidden tweets that were recovered,the entire resist movement with government agencies creating alternate web sites, and the mountain of other compelling evidence. Oh, and the memo.
ROFLMFAO
I believe the Hillary loss has forever mental altered the lefist.
100 % OF Democrats in the US Congress voted against a tax cut for the middle class.
James Boswell of Normal, Illinois is a pedophile.
Unless you believe the "evidence" in the memo.
short of the FBI releasing the entire application, and considering that the FBI officially went over the document for inaccuracies and national security issues...
Yeah, there is no reason "not" to believe the memo.
Certainly much better than the typical anonymous source NY Times story that you are used to treating like gospel.
This is just fucking ridiculous !
The assumption King is on a roll
The FBI as an organization has been possibly the most revered organization in our government. No more. They are being questioned by nearly half of America and probably for good reason. The reputation of the FBI will likely take a hit. It's only a question of how much of a hit.
Ironically, these arguments coming from the left talking about how the FBI will ultimately "get Trump" are actually very damaging to the FBI in and of themselves. The simple argument that the FBI will fuck with people for personal reasons is exactly the sort of thing that will reaffirm Trump supporters that Trump is the victim of personal FBI attacks. In a strange way, it's literally the same argument viewed from a different perspective. Ultimately it's odd that Democrats and the liberal media will make these sorts of arguments (which by nature damages the FBI) while simultaneously accusing Trump the the GOP of attacking the FBI... for doing what they themselves suggest that the FBI would do?
The absolute arrogance of the obama FBI, DOJ...and IRS is criminally historic. People are now beginning to attach Obama's name to it all, rightly asking what did he know and when did he know it.
His administration will go down as the most corrupt in history.
Roger says this is ridiculous:
Ironically, these arguments coming from the left talking about how the FBI will ultimately "get Trump" are actually very damaging to the FBI in and of themselves. The simple argument that the FBI will fuck with people for personal reasons is exactly the sort of thing that will reaffirm Trump supporters that Trump is the victim of personal FBI attacks.
I don't think so:
Former CIA counterterrorism official Phil Mudd: The FBI people "are ticked" and they'll be saying of Trump, “You’ve been around for 13 months. We've been around since 1908. I know how this game is going to be played. We're going to win" http://cnn.it/2GEPZD3
As one pundit said: "If you Don't want Trump muttering about the "Deep-State", don't act like a cartoon "Deep-State" villian.
"American Voters" said
"Obama's administration will go down as the most corrupt in history."
______________
Thanks for the laugh, Coward.
James, do you have friends at your church that where going to vote hillary but voted Trump because of the Russians?
"Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you," said Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer .
James said...
"American Voters" said
"Obama's administration will go down as the most corrupt in history."
______________
Thanks for the laugh, Coward.
___________________________________________
While I didn't post this, I and millions of other agree with it, and it's already obvious to any honest, engaged person.
signed cowardly king obama and JAMES'S FUCKING DADDY
PS guess the "pastor's" new signoff is Coward. It does match Obama, though the laugh sounds very disingenuous
Coward?
Sticks and stones...
There is a reason why this administration has more leaks than most, if not the most leaks ever. These people see the real Donald Trump behind closed doors. He's got an explosive temper, highly impulsive and irresponsible behavior. He refuses to read the daily briefing memos, and will lie on anything, depending upon his hours watching news coverage of his administration. Sean Hannity is now a regular phone call away. In effect, Hannity is an advisor. He is not qualified to be President.
Easy to see why there are so many leaks, disgraceful people who break the law regularly by doing so, such as from the House Intelligence Committee Adam Schiff.
and a compliant activist news media who will print anything damaging without any attempt to verify.
Disgraceful, but the tide (or wave) is turning
The real reason that Trump is attempting to discredit the law enforcement agencies and the intelligence community is pretty simple and completely escapes our host's windy diatribes.
President Trump has raised fears that he is tearing at the credibility of some of the most important institutions in American life to save himself..
He is turning the United States into a banana republic. And the Republican party that used to be the strongest supporters of the FBI and the department of justice, has been letting him to turn the Republican party into a mirror image of the President.
Seems even Don McGahn wrote a letter saying the memo was an opinion piece, while CH and company rally around the idiot in chief trying to destroy the country protecting his fat white ass...
letter Donald McGahn, Counsel to the President, attached to the memo:
"To be clear, the Memorandum reflects the judgments of its congressional authors."
But Ch and company fly along as if Page meant something...the only legitimate issue is trump being a hack as he tries to undermine the very fabric of the country..l.
Roger is backassing trying to blame the victim of banana republic tactics.
The banana republic was well under way before Trump was elected and the chief architects were James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Loretta Lynch, and Eric Holder.
That is what the memo conclusively laid out.
The banana republic was well under way before Trump was elected and the chief architects were James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Loretta Lynch, and Eric Holder.
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and the king was 0linsky himself.
The FBI as an organization has been possibly the most revered organization in our government. No more.
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more like 'never was'.
the FBI is chock full of incompetence and dirty cops. the mythical reverence that you speak of is the shit tv shows and movies are made of. the actual FBI is a cesspool. it needs to be destroyed.
menstral the cramp opines his bias once again with..
Roger is backassing trying to blame the victim of banana republic tactics.
Trump is a unmitigated liar and fraud....he is doing more to turn this country into a tyrannical state with his attack on law and order, and you are supporting it which is most amusing showing your complete lack of reasoning and intellect....His kind of voter!!!!!!
That is what the memo conclusively laid out.
Sure it did....your blind faith is most delusional...
Rat the hole is drowning in foolishly posted with out basis
he FBI is chock full of incompetence and dirty cops
Yeah, sure rat....and trump is clean as a whistle ....LOLOLOLOL
Seems even Don McGahn wrote a letter saying the memo was an opinion piece
I suppose that's his opinion but the great problem for liberals is that no matter how they try to impeach it and no matter how much their friends in the media try to discount and pooh pooh it, the memo rings true.
It rings true on the facts and it rings true on the conclusion.
And the central conclusion is that the FBI used false, salicatious, and unverified political opposition research in order to spy on a private citizen.
And got the warrant without disclosing those pertinent details to a FISA judge.
That alone should be enough to scare the bejesus out of anybody.
IF the memo is meaningless. Why is the Deep State and it's willing press all pissed off?
2018 Democrat Bumper sticker
IMPEACH 45
They are clinging to the lie, that there would not be an investigation, without the dossier. The timeline proves that this claim is partisan fiction.
The investigation started in July. The dossier didn't enter into the timeline until October of 2016, and had no effect the investigation. The investigation was launched because the Russians were intervening into the election. The investigation into the Russian intervention was not motivated by domestic politics. It was designed to investigate and expose and prevent future interventions into the most important right of the people to choose those to govern the country.
The the investigation expanded into the possible collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, was there were many contacts between people involved in the campaign, had multiple contacts with the Russian federation. It was not a partisan investigation as charged.
Here is what a new agent swears to when coming on board at the FBI
"I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."
If you all doubt they live by this like rat...there is no hope any of you will take your head out of trumps ass......
Trump is a unmitigated liar and fraud.
Which is just your opinion, but even unmitigated liars and frauds have constitutional protections.
he is doing more to turn this country into a tyrannical state with his attack on law and order
Which is ironic, since Trump has rolled back Obama's extra constitutional executive orders.
There is nothing law and order about the FBI using police state tactics against private law abiding citizens. The leadership who initiated these police state tactics were appointed by Barack Obama.
KD the ass wipe posted
Why is the Deep State and it's willing press all pissed off?
And asswipe, link us up to the deep state....BWAAAAAAAAA!@!!!!!! Another figment of your lipid filled fetid, mind....
Which is just your opinion,
Not really menstral....you forgot these few instances....there are many more
Do I believe President Trump, who says the FBI's conduct in conducting its counterintelligence investigation was a "disgrace"? The same president who said his tax cut was the biggest ever (way off) or who said that his inaugural crowd was the biggest and his State of the Union address was watched by the largest audience ever? Who said that he loved Puerto Rico on the same day that the Federal Emergency Management Agency cut off food and water aid? Who claimed there was "substantial evidence of voter fraud" in 2016? Trump tower wire tap!!!
As I have things to do, James and Opie are doing a stand up job of kicking ass, just like the New England Patriots will do this afternoon.
What the FBI and DOJ leadership is doing rips at the very foundation of this nation's governance. Yet, almost no one on the left, be it here, in DC or the news media are the least bit concerned. This should be a great concern to all of us.
If this continues, this political civil war will become a real one.
The investigation was launched because the Russians were intervening into the election.
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no, the investigation was launched because team hillary CLAIMED russian intervention.
It was designed to investigate and expose and prevent future interventions into the most important right of the people to choose those to govern the country.
but you were quite all right with it when 0linsky did it to israel during THEIR election.
hypocrisy is the bedrock of liberalism alky. and russia didn't do any more than unleash a pile of fakebook bots. cost putin about a hundred grand. oh, and he got podesta's emails for free. he just went phishing for them and old johnny boy handed them right over.
your russia, russia, russia thing is a myth, alky. a pure fabrication to cover a whopping dose of butthurt on hillary's fat drunken ass.
you and mueller and the rest of the left can keep jerking off. the rest of america is going back to work making $$$ hand over fist.
idiot.
just like the New England Patriots will do this afternoon.
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there you have it folks. bet on the eagles.
They are clinging to the lie, that there would not be an investigation, without the dossier.
Let's confront the real lie here.
Nobody ever said there wouldn't be an investigation without the dossier that is your invention and your invention only.
What McCabe said in effect was that they never would have sought a FISA warrant without the dossier.
Meaning that without the dossier, they did not have enough evidence to satisfy even the ridiculously low bar a FISA warrant requires.
The "cripple" will kick his ass.
It's a lot tighter than the rrb Selfi on the Legacy blog.
Meaning that without the dossier, they did not have enough evidence to satisfy even the ridiculously low bar a FISA warrant requires.
No, the evidence was multiple trips to Russia, by an advisor of the Trump campaign.
Probable cause.
Rat the idiot hole posted another falsehood...
no, the investigation was launched because team hillary CLAIMED russian intervention.
I guess all investigative branches agreed that the russian messed with the election was fraudulent??? Based on what, your gut feeling which most likely was gas.......The DNC hacking was just a coincidence....LOLOLOL Yer a fuck stick and asshole...
Again that's not what McCabe said.
If "multiple trips to Russia" is enough probable cause for a FISA warrant then everybody in America should be scared, very scared.
No, the evidence was multiple trips to Russia, by an advisor of the Trump campaign.
Probable cause.
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LOL.
No, the evidence was multiple trips to Russia, by an advisor of the Trump campaign.
Probable cause.
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FORMER advisor, alky.
The FBI’s FISA application discussed in #TheMemo did not target a “Trump campaign adviser.” Rather, the FISA application asked permission to surveil Carter Page, former Trump campaign adviser. And, by the way, Page was known to law enforcement as early as 2013, long before he ever joined the Trump campaign.
Susan Wright mentioned this fact this morning, but the misconception is so widespread and so central that I think it deserves its own post.
Remember: the yuuuuge and giant revelations in #TheMemo all centered around the FISA applications to surveil Carter Page. But Carter Page stepped down as a Trump foreign policy adviser on September 26, 2016. According to #TheMemo, the first FISA application targeting Page was obtained almost a month later, on October 21, 2016: “On October 21, 2016, DOJ and FBI sought and received a FISA probable cause order (not under Title VII) authorizing electronic surveillance on Carter Page from the FISC.”
The fact that Page was not a member of the Trump campaign when the initial FISA application was granted is not some new revelation. It has been known for months. For example, the New York Times reported in April 2017:
After Mr. Page, 45 — a Navy veteran and businessman who had lived in Moscow for three years — stepped down from the Trump campaign in September, the F.B.I. obtained a warrant from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court allowing the authorities to monitor his communications on the suspicion that he was a Russian agent.
Yet that does not stop the world from repeating the error McCarthy makes in the quote above: that the application to surveil Carter Page sought “a warrant authorizing surveillance of a Trump campaign adviser.” I see this repeated all over the Internet, in very prominent places.
https://www.redstate.com/patterico/2018/02/03/um-guys-fisa-application-discussed-thememo-not-target-trump-campaign-adviser/
They are clinging to the lie, that there would not be an investigation, without the dossier. The timeline proves that this claim is partisan fiction.
The investigation started in July. The dossier didn't enter into the timeline until October of 2016, and had no effect the investigation.
Factually incorrect. The Steele dossier had three parts. The first was provided in June, and the last was provided in December.
Moreover, there is a blatant attempt to confuse the Russian meddling investigation... with the Russian/Trump collusion.
Nobody has ever suggested that the FBI should not have investigated potential Russian meddling. By all means, if you believe that a foreign power is trying to undercut your elections, you should figure it out (in a factual non-political way). Spend all the resources you want. Get it figured out.
But investigating whether the Russians meddled (which is a counterintelligence investigation) and then getting a criminal warrant suggesting Trump campaign members are "foreign agents" and the Trump campaign is in general criminally involved in conspiracy...
Are two distinctly different things.
The first needs very little reason to investigate. You don't need a judge, or a warrant, or even probable cause. You just go on a hunch. It's counterintelligence and the Russians are not entitled to any constitutional protections.
But when you attempt to start a full scale FBI investigation into a whole set of people... then you need real probable cause to do so. You cannot just start putting people under surveillance, digging into personal records, or otherwise hassling them without real probable cause. Doing so if a violation of the fourth amendment of our constitution...
which by the way, is entirely in place to protect citizens from overzealous cops who go after people for the wrong reasons... you know, like going after someone because they said something bad about their organization.
So the bigger the investigation... the more probable cause you need. You think when the FBI goes after organized crime, they start the whole thing up on one paper written by a private dick that they never verified?
This, Roger... is exactly why the FBI, DOJ, Obama Administration, the Democrats, and the media... all stood firm with the talking point that the Steele dossier was "not" the cause of the investigation. Because they knew that if it ever "was" exposed that they started all of this based on third hand drunken conversations and unverified paid opposition research... that they would exposed for what it is.
Next tax step .
Reduce payroll taxes by 2 percent of Social Security.
"Probable cause" stultus
CH drowns in trumps swill with this load of baseless opinion said...
"all stood firm with the talking point that the Steele dossier was "not" the cause of the investigation."
So glad to know you are now an expert on fisa warrants and what is in them....Without having seen the original , I find it most amusing the you can post with such certainty on what was done. IOW's bullshit on you....
Your brain is just a pile of shapeless mush....
Dennis, do you realize that when you start off with a vulgar insult, it just invalidates all the arguments you make after that?
That doesn't matter so much to the people who already know you since they dismiss what say anyway.
But a stranger reading the blog will 9 times out of 10 will stop reading at the insult.
And the 10th will just have an unfavorable view of your character.
Because they knew that if it ever "was" exposed that they started all of this based on third hand drunken conversations and unverified paid opposition research... that they would exposed for what it is.
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precisely. from the "most revered" law enforcement organization in our government.
That White Flag in up early today.
"Your brain is just a pile of shapeless mush..." oPie
The problem for Opie, Roger, James, and gang is that they probably know this doesn't play out well for them in the end.
When you have two sides arguing about what is happening behind the scenes, it's simple as to which side you should believe. That is the side who is willing to let it all out in the open.
Democrats have argued that the memo is misleading, dishonest, etc... but when Republicans have offered to declassify the underlying documents the Democrats all collectively take a dump in their shorts.
You Republicans are confident that full transparency will validate their summations. The Democrats are scared shitless that full transparency will make them look like bigger fools than they currently look.
The bigger problem for the left, is the upcoming Inspector General report. This is designed to be an objective well researched report from a person who's job is to oversee these things. They will have a big issue attempting to shout that one down as partisan or misleading.
Prez Obama knew, he had to, given that he was the singular smartest President eva'. And Hillary , even smarter, more qualified then even Obama, she Knew, and paid for the pee wee dossier. AG Lynch knew as Did FBI Director J. Edgar Comey.
Totally
"The bigger problem for the left, is the upcoming Inspector General report. This is designed to be an objective well researched report from a person who's job is to oversee these things. They will have a big issue attempting to shout that one down as partisan or misleading.".
CH once again speaks when he should not....
g is that they probably know this doesn't play out well for them in the end.
What I do know is that there is an eternity to the mid terms, and this BS ain't helping any R cause, especially with millennial and some women which I doubt your side will ever recover with the stupidity at the top....You can only say something so many times before it is time to pay the piper....wonder when those tax returns will be released in today's transparent environment....LOL
Menstral the cramp opines....
Dennis, do you realize that when you start off with a vulgar insult,
Do you think I give a shit about your cynical morals and opinion?????? Why don't you post the same message to rat hole....oh, I know,,,you agree with him....IOW's cramps the hypocrite strikes again...fuck you....LOL
HI oPie, how are you this fine Super Sunday?
HB ,I need to make a bet on the Super Bowl.
Who do you think will WIN.
r KD the mentally disabled trolled and said...
HI oPie, how are you this fine Super Sunday?
Why would you even give a fuck how I am doing...I certainly wouldn't even piss on you if you were on fire.....asshole
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