- The President is under investigation.
- Justice Kavanaugh has written papers on how he doesn't believe Presidents should be investigated while in office.
- Therefor it would be a conflict of interest for Trump to nominate Kavanaugh, because he may end up ruling on something to do with the Mueller probe.
- In fact, according to many liberals, the President should be allowed to nominate anyone while under investigation.
Well let's start with the obvious flaw in the argument. The President is not a target of any investigation here. There has been no evidence produced by anyone that there was any involvement by the President in any criminal or otherwise legally suspect behavior.
But let's move past that. Let's focus on the fundamental argument that a President should lose his constitutional powers to behave as President if he is "under investigation". By the basis of that argument, from the day a special counsel is appointed to investigate anything having anything to do with the President, till the day that special counsel completes his or her probe... the country would effectively be without a President. Considering some of these probes can last years, you could effectively wipe out an entire Presidency simply by starting any sort of probe that involves the President. In fact, it's not inconceivable that a President could be reelected as President, while under investigation, and still be unable to perform his duties as President.
So the question becomes, what is the constitutional argument being made by the left, that a President should inherently lose the powers of the office while under investigation? Is there even a constitutional argument to be made?
More to the point, one could come to a pretty simple and logical conclusion. Because the President's detractors will attempt to undermine his or her authority during any investigation that affects the President, investigating a President while in office is inherently a very bad idea. The investigation could in theory reduce the powers of one of the three branches of Government, as well as effectively disenfranchising the election process via some sort of prosecutorial coup.
More to the point, one could come to a pretty simple and logical conclusion. Because the President's detractors will attempt to undermine his or her authority during any investigation that affects the President, investigating a President while in office is inherently a very bad idea. The investigation could in theory reduce the powers of one of the three branches of Government, as well as effectively disenfranchising the election process via some sort of prosecutorial coup.
Doesn't the very argument that a President cannot be President while under investigation prove Kavanaugh's point that it's a bad idea to investigate Presidents while in office?
Just curious...
Just curious...
58 comments:
Gabriel Malor
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Kavanaugh wrote after the Clinton investigation that the law should be changed so presidents can focus on their jobs while in office.
To that end, he suggested that Congress change the law:
https://twitter.com/gabrielmalor/status/1016510985358790656/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1016510985358790656&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2Fgregp-3534%2F2018%2F07%2F10%2Fgabriel-malor-explains-why-cory-booker-dick-durbin-and-everyone-else-is-wrong-about-their-new-favorite-anti-kavanaugh-talking-point%2F
Damn funny. Keep going.
Well let's start with the obvious flaw in the argument. The President is not a target of any investigation here. he us a subject of the investigation
Brett Kavanaugh said that the President should no be under civil or criminal charges while he is President.
There has been no evidence produced by anyone that there was any involvement by the President in any criminal or otherwise legally suspect behavior.
Because the information on the possible wrongdoing is ongoing and the Muller investigation teams has been silent without any leaks or hacking we cannot (assume) has no involvement by the President in any criminal or otherwise legally suspect behavior.
The argument that a President should lose his constitutional powers to behave as President if he is "under investigation" is a clear expansion of the powers granted by the Constitution. He literally could stand on 5th Avenue in Manhattan and shoot every single person he can until he runs out of ammunition. He could be impeached for the murders. But while he is performing the difficult task of being President he could not be imprisoned or indicted.
He wrote that opinion while Obama was in office.
So what?
It's still against every single bit of common sense that he said last night because of his mother's question.
he us a subject of the investigation
Brett Kavanaugh said that the President should no be under civil or criminal charges while he is President.
so your burden is even less, alky. subject of an investigation? for what crime?
perhaps we should appoint a special counsel at the start of each presidential term for, oh i don't know... whateverthefuck.
and by doing so we have just rendered that president effectively powerless to carry out their executive branch duties.
congrats alky. you exposed a gargantuan flaw in your own childish argument.
Because the information on the possible wrongdoing is ongoing and the Muller investigation teams has been silent without any leaks or hacking we cannot (assume) has no involvement by the President in any criminal or otherwise legally suspect behavior.
sure we can. by the basic tenet of "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY."
due process. heard of it?
you would choose to prohibit a president from carrying out their duties just because they're under some kind of investigation??? especially one as fucked up as muellers???
nice temper tantrum alky. fatally flawed logic but i'll give you some drama queen style points.
sorry alky, but on paper you guys are royally fucked to the nth degree. there is literally nothing you guys can do to prevent kavanaugh from joining the USSC. come up with all the obscure legal asshattery you want.
you are fucked.
heh.
Didnt mueller and comey both say trump is not a target?
But roger the horse's ass knows more about it all.
He literally could stand on 5th Avenue in Manhattan and shoot every single person he can until he runs out of ammunition. He could be impeached for the murders. But while he is performing the difficult task of being President he could not be imprisoned or indicted.
uh, dumb fuck...
kavanaugh's writings specifically addressed CIVIL SUITS.
mass murder is a criminal offense.
try again alky.
IF the President should inherently lose the powers of the office while under investigation? The argument is meaningless. His Constitutional powers are not blocked is he is the subject of an investigation.
Is there even a constitutional argument to be made? This would be determined by the SCOTUS. Even Chief Justice Roberts is likely to expand the powers granted by the Constitution to the President.
More to the point, one could come to a pretty simple and logical conclusion. Because the President's detractors will attempt to undermine his or her authority during any investigation that affects the President, investigating a President while in office is inherently a very bad idea.
The investigation could in theory reduce the powers of one of the three branches of Government, as well as effectively disenfranchising the election process via some sort of prosecutorial coup.
There you go again asserting that the investigation was politically motivated against Donald Trump. The deep state conspiracy is alive in your "mind" All three of the intelligence chairmen were appointed by the President.
Civil and criminal rrb must lie
IF's Are for children.
" for what crime? " RRB
We know the crime, Trump won in a Freaking Landslide.
Hillbilly is be blamed, lost the Ellection and now the USSC for a Generation.
The winning continues.
He made the statement in 2009. Obama was President
Trump didn't win in a landslide by any measure.
The measure is Electoral Votes.
So, ya he did.
Roger what percent of Electoral votes did Hillary Win?
TRUMP Winning Bigly.
"Many Central American migrants slated for deportation are choosing to leave their own children behind in U.S. government shelters, says an official at the Department of Homeland Security.
“We’re seeing many of these [migrant] parents who have been removed decline to take their child,” said Matthew Albence, the Executive Associate Director of Enforcement and Removal Operations division at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement."
Another Measure, number of States Won.
Roger -
There have been two completed investigations in congress. Neither came up with a shred of evidence that the President did anything illegel.
The FBI investigation (which went on for nearly a year) never came up with any shred of evidence, and the President was assured till the very end (and Comey testified under oath) that the President was not a target of the investigation himself.
Likewise the Special Counsel has been investigating for over a year, and has yet to make Trump himself a target, much less show any evidence of any criminal wrong doing.
So while you cannot say what will happen in the future...
As of right now. It's 100% accurate to state that there is no evidence brought forward by anyone (and there have been four chances so far) that the President has broken the law.
Blogger Roger Amick said...
Civil and criminal rrb must lie
civil only alky.
take another hit of opium.
CH the Senate intelligence committee report was not as political and stated that the Russians were aggressively targeting Clinton. They neither said the crooked Hillary claims were not valid.
Of course don't know if the President was either in collusion or objecting justice yet. We don't know what Manafort has, nor Cohen and others.
You have been trying to justify the President cannot do anything wrong while he is in office. Because its not a distraction to performance as President. I guess that his might be the reason why he's dismantling NATO and doing exactly what Putin wants him to do.
You're not a lawyer nor am I. But the words targeted and subject both imply that they may have data that they have been keeping secret. Prosecutors never let the target of any investigations know what they are looking for or at what they already have.
Of course don't know if the President was either in collusion or objecting justice yet. We don't know what Manafort has, nor Cohen and others.
alky, there's a time to fish, and there's a time to cut bait. manafort is in solitary 23 hours a day. for no good fucking reason at all. i can only speculate ho team mueller is fucking with cohen, but if he had value we would've seen it by know.
how long would you like this to go on? 5 more years? ten? twenty?
the fact is that your sore loser campaign hasn't turned up a fucking thing of value. and manafort hasn't flipped. nor has cohen.
give it up dickhead.
trump is your president.
deal with it.
It is possible that only can't write English but it looks like he can't read it either.
“We should not burden a sitting President with civil suits, criminal investigations,
rrbJuly 10, 2018 at 6:27 PM
Blogger Roger Amick said...
Civil and criminal rrb must lie
civil only alky.
take another hit of opium.
Have another PBR
You have been trying to justify the President cannot do anything wrong while he is in office.
no, but you have been trying, and lying to prove he DID do something wrong before he took office and after he took office.
btw, where's stormy? wrung out like an old dishrag?
where's your popadopa-douchebag? he was your key to the whole enchilada alky.
got any russians extradited to face those bullshit charges contained in those bullshit indictments?
Trump is a minority President.
We don't know if he got help from his brother Putin.
It is possible that rrb only can't write English but it looks like he can't read it either.
“We should not burden a sitting President with civil suits, criminal investigations,
rrbJuly 10, 2018 at 6:27 PM
Blogger Roger Amick said...
Civil and criminal rrb must lie
civil only alky.
take another hit of opium.
Have another PBR
Blogger Roger Amick said...
Trump is a minority President.
304 to 227, alky.
heh.
trump's in the white house.
cankles is getting shitfaced and trying to make the stairs.
I know that it's a waste of time but he's obviously going through some sort of mental issues.
"where's your popadopa-douchebag? he was your key to the whole enchilada alky."
Nonsense.
got any russians extradited to face those bullshit charges contained in those bullshit indictments?
Russia will never extradite anyone to face federal charges or at least questioned.
Minority is true. Our electoral system is not the popular vote.
Clinton won 2,864,974 more votes than Donald Trump,
so thanks for admitting what we've been saying...
...assholes like you and mueller are wasting our time.
Our electoral system is not the popular vote.
very good, alky.
but you do realize it's the only vote that fucking matters, right?
and it's why cankles' portrait hangs by the white house dumpster.
(epic troll, donnie.)
Jimmy you should not drink a six pack before you get on your laptop.
Is the "border thingy" over for dems already?
Clinton won 2,864,974 more votes than Donald Trump,"
Be nice if she new the rules of the game.
Hillary has her Elect Kankles Kampain re-Fired and is raising money. Maybe she can spend 1.5 Trillion.
#HideBillthisTime.
"Clinton won 2,864,974 more votes than Donald Trump"
BIG deal, Rog.
Of course don't know if the President was either in collusion or objecting justice yet.
Roger - the two Congressional investigations are complete. There is no "yet" involved. They did not find any evidence what-so-ever of any collusion of any kind and no offering of anything that the President did that was illegal. Whatever they found in terms of the Russians has nothing to do with Trump doing anything illegal. These committees had upwards of 99% of the same information that the FBI/Special Counsel has been privy to.
So I am not sure what your logic is? If Special Counsel concludes their investigation without coming to any finding of collusion will you continue to argue that we don't know?
As pointed out, Roger... this is America, right?
People in America (even Trump) are considered innocent until proven guilty. Or are you not an American?
The electoral college came to be to get the slave state votes for the Constitution. The country was more of separate republics than since the Civil War that your side lost.
I never said that he's guilty of collusion, if it's even a crime according to Alan Dershorich who has written that collusion isn't a crime against a sitting President. It doesn't fit the High crimes and misdemeanors standards.
Again you have been assuming his innocence before indictment.
Are you an American?
(If Special Counsel concludes their investigation without coming to any finding of collusion will you continue to argue that we don't know? )
I will move on to showing his incompetent Presidency. Like his demolition of NATO to forge a TriCentral coalition of the United States, Russia and China.
We have to wonder. Innocent until Proven Guilty, unless you live in the Land of Kankles.
"Again you have been assuming his innocence before indictment.
Are you an American?" "
Roger, you are kidding right?
If not, I feel so badly for you.
Badly. Lol
You Badly need a basic 101 level US Constitution class.
https://www.heritage.org/constitution/
Dirty Leg Page.
"Former FBI attorney Lisa Page will not appear for a private interview with two House committees despite being subpoenaed."
Really, why not. She was so sure Hillary would actually WIN.
The Senate just slammed the President.
WASHINGTON — Lawmakers in Washington worked quickly Tuesday to set legislative guardrails in support of NATO as President Donald Trump, who has repeatedly bashed the alliance, arrived in Europe for a NATO summit and meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin later in the week.
Hours after Trump landed in Brussels, the Senate passed a non-binding measure, 97-2, that expresses support for NATO, its mutual self-defense clause and calls on the administration to rush its whole-of-government strategy to counter Russia’s meddling in the U.S. and other democracies. of course there was no meddling in the elections in the free world. CH knows for sure.
With the established global order on shaky footing, Trump’s weeklong trip to Europe will test already strained bonds with some of America’s closest allies, then put him face to face with the leader of the country whose electoral interference was meant to help put him in office.
Senate Armed Services Committee ranking member Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., proposed the measure, which is technically a motion to instruct lawmakers who will reconcile the House and Senate defense policy bills for 2019. Republican Sens. Rand Paul and Mike Lee were the only senators to vote against it.
In a Senate floor speech Tuesday, Reed callled America’s commitment to NATO “ironclad” and Trump’s meeting with Putin “ill-advised.”
Lol, "non-binding".
Non binding. It was 97 2 in the Senate.
In this very partisan era getting all but two members of the Senate to vote for anything almost never happens.
Blogger KD said...
Lol, "non-binding".
yeah, it ranks right up there with "double-secret probation" and the UN "remaining seized of the matter."
according to the alky it's wrong for trump to insist that the NATO countries actually chip in a little $$$ and pay for their own defense. most of those NATO countries enjoy their levels of democratic socialism and all its perks because they have no defense budget. we protect their asses.
it begs the question that if the NATO countries think their own defense is not important, why should anyone else think it is?
NATO is Stronger because of President Trump.
The EU hates that he is using thier commitment to get them to pay what THEY said they would.
It cuts into paying for all that free shit they promised thier lazy takers.
when Pres. Trump sad to the American Socialist and EU Socialist "We are no longer the Piggy Bank".
it begs the question that if the NATO countries think their own defense is not important, why should anyone else think it is?" RRB
Those countries are what today's Socialist Democrat almost pulled off here. 2016 Landslide Trump Win stop it and now is reversing it. SSI and Medicaid/care have seen massive inflows from all those workers coming of the government teat and working.
It's gotten pretty bad for liberals when Roger creams his jeans over a non-binding resolution that says "we support NATO".
Meanwhile the commander and chief of US armed forces is raking Germany over the coals for double dealing with Russia.
LOL.
this has always been bullshit. putin knew that hillary was a feckless and criminally corrupt imbecile who can't walk unassisted. a known quantity who spends her off hours getting hammered. it defies logic to think that he would prefer trump over felonia milhous von pantsuit.
"The Senate just slammed the President."
It means nothing.
"it begs the question that if the NATO countries think their own defense is not important, why should anyone else think it is?"
Exactly.
We're protecting them from Russia, while they pour billions of dollars into Russia's coffer...
Yeah, that's brilliant???
We're living up to our part of the treaties of WWI and WWII, BUT they aren't.
The Socialist Democrat and the EU Socialist are mad that an Adult is calling them on thier Putin loving. Good catch RRB.
Germany could by Natural gas from the USA.
Gov. DeblozeeO broke US Law by illegally crossing into Mexico and back to the USA.
Elizabeth Warren
✔
@SenWarren
It’s clear that @realDonaldTrump’s Supreme Court nominee, Neil Gorsuch, doesn’t have enough support in the Senate to be confirmed.
4:02 PM - Apr 4, 2017
19.2K
5,412 people are talking about this
https://twitter.com/SenWarren/status/849351408809906178
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