Saturday, July 28, 2018

Collusion vs Criminal Conspiracy

Defendants, together with others known and unknown to the Grand Jury, knowingly and intentionally conspired to defraud the United States by impairing, obstructing, and defeating the lawful functions of the Federal Election Commission, the U.S. Department of Justice, and the U.S. Department of State in administering federal requirements for disclosure of foreign involvement in certain domestic activities.
So what does this mean, in a nutshell?  First of all, it doesn't mean what some liberals are suggesting. Contrary to some arguments, it is not a catch all charge for some form of generic "collusion". There is a difference between "collusion" and "conspiracy".

In the case of the Russian trolling farm, the entire conspiracy was cited as breaking several actual laws. These infringements included stealing American identities, falsely posing as those people, concealing their funding from the FEC,  obtaining travel visas under false and fraudulent pretense, and (yep, you guessed it - the tried and true Mueller favorite of) failing to "register" as foreign agents.

The reality is that the conspiracy charges are directly tied to the fact that the "co-conspirators" broke laws to accomplish their goals. No Americans were charged in the indictment, because no Americans were widely complicit with any of the actual transgressions of the law. One American was charged for actually selling the stolen identities, but was not considered part of the larger conspiracy. Otherwise, simply participating in a rally or otherwise engaging with the group is not illegal.

So by this argument, the fact that the DNC and Hillary Clinton hired a foreign agent to dig up dirt on Donald Trump may be considered collusion, but not a criminal conspiracy. The reason would that the agent (Richard Steele) did not break any laws in gathering the information. (At least as far as we know. Nobody in the FBI seemed very concerned with looking into that possibility).  Either way, the argument then becomes that this is considered legitimate "opposition research" rather than conspiracy.

But by the same standards, the idea of the Trump campaign being provided with dirt on the Hillary campaign would not be considered a criminal conspiracy unless that information was obtained illegally. The Trump Tower meeting, for example, never materialized anything substantial (or anything illegally obtained) on the Clinton campaign. It did not (as some have suggested) involve stolen emails. Rather the dirt was a vague allegation of Russian campaign contributions to Clinton. Moreover, the Trump campaign did not actually use any of that material gathered in the campaign. So by the same reasons the Richard Steele dossier may be collusion, but not conspiracy, you must also consider the Trump Tower meeting to be the same.

This is why there is such a big focus on the "email" situation. The emails were hacked and then distributed, which is a crime (albeit a seldom charged crime). This was really the only significant "crime" committed that could conceivably be tied to Americans. So if it could be shown that the Trump campaign played a part in either hacking or distributing the DNC and Clinton emails, then a criminal conspiracy charge could probably be made. But short of the Trump campaign assisting the Russians in breaking some sort of law, there isn't anything that rises to the level of criminal conspiracy.

It's really that simple.

57 comments:

Commonsense said...

As the man said, it's not illegal to talk to a Russian.

Anonymous said...

Or have a conversation with a drunk.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Background to “Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US
Elections”: The Analytic Process and Cyber Incident Attribution
“Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections” is a declassified version of a highly
classified assessment that has been provided to the President and to recipients approved by the
President.
 The Intelligence Community rarely can publicly reveal the full extent of its knowledge or the precise
bases for its assessments, as the release of such information would reveal sensitive sources or
methods and imperil the ability to collect critical foreign intelligence in the future.
 Thus, while the conclusions in the report are all reflected in the classified assessment, the declassified
report does not and cannot include the full supporting information, including specific intelligence and
sources and methods.
The Analytic Process
The mission of the Intelligence Community is to seek to reduce the uncertainty surrounding foreign
activities, capabilities, or leaders’ intentions. This objective is difficult to achieve when seeking to
understand complex issues on which foreign actors go to extraordinary lengths to hide or obfuscate their
activities.
 On these issues of great importance to US national security, the goal of intelligence analysis is to
provide assessments to decisionmakers that are intellectually rigorous, objective, timely, and useful,
and that adhere to tradecraft standards.
 The tradecraft standards for analytic products have been refined over the past ten years. These
standards include describing sources (including their reliability and access to the information they
provide), clearly expressing uncertainty, distinguishing between underlying information and analysts’
judgments and assumptions, exploring alternatives, demonstrating relevance to the customer, using
strong and transparent logic, and explaining change or consistency in judgments over time.
 Applying these standards helps ensure that the Intelligence Community provides US policymakers,
warfighters, and operators with the best and most accurate insight, warning, and context, as well as
potential opportunities to advance US national security.
Intelligence Community analysts integrate information from a wide range of sources, including human
sources, technical collection, and open source information, and apply specialized skills and structured
analytic tools to draw inferences informed by the data available, relevant past activity, and logic and
reasoning to provide insight into what is happening and the prospects for the future.
 A critical part of the analyst’s task is to explain uncertainties associated with major judgments based
on the quantity and quality of the source material, information gaps, and the complexity of the issue.
 When Intelligence Community analysts use words such as “we assess” or “we judge,” they are
conveying an analytic assessment or judgment.
 Some analytic judgments are based directly on collected information; others rest on previous
judgments, which serve as building blocks in rigorous analysis. In either type of judgment, the
tradecraft standards outlined above ensure that analysts have an appropriate basis for the judgment.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

 Intelligence Community judgments often include two important elements: judgments of how likely it
is that something has happened or will happen (using terms such as “likely” or “unlikely”) and
confidence levels in those judgments (low, moderate, and high) that refer to the evidentiary basis,
logic and reasoning, and precedents that underpin the judgments.
Determining Attribution in Cyber Incidents
The nature of cyberspace makes attribution of cyber operations difficult but not impossible. Every kind of
cyber operation—malicious or not—leaves a trail. US Intelligence Community analysts use this
information, their constantly growing knowledge base of previous events and known malicious actors, and
their knowledge of how these malicious actors work and the tools that they use, to attempt to trace these
operations back to their source. In every case, they apply the same tradecraft standards described in the
Analytic Process above.
 Analysts consider a series of questions to assess how the information compares with existing
knowledge and adjust their confidence in their judgments as appropriate to account for any
alternative hypotheses and ambiguities.
 An assessment of attribution usually is not a simple statement of who conducted an operation, but
rather a series of judgments that describe whether it was an isolated incident, who was the likely
perpetrator, that perpetrator’s possible motivations, and whether a foreign government had a role in ordering or operation.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Putin Ordered Campaign To Influence US
Election
We assess with high confidence that Russian
President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence
campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential
election, the consistent goals of which were to
undermine public faith in the US democratic
process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her
electability and potential presidency. We further
assess Putin and the Russian Government
developed a clear preference for President-elect
Trump. When it appeared to Moscow that
Secretary Clinton was likely to win the election, the
Russian influence campaign then focused on
undermining her expected presidency.

 We also assess Putin and the Russian
Government aspired to help President-elect
Trump’s election chances when possible by
discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly
contrasting her unfavorably to him. All three
agencies agree with this judgment. CIA and
FBI have high confidence in this judgment;
NSA has moderate confidence.
 In trying to influence the US election, we assess
the Kremlin sought to advance its longstanding
desire to undermine the US-led liberal
democratic order, the promotion of which
Putin and other senior Russian leaders view as
a threat to Russia and Putin’s regime.
 Putin publicly pointed to the Panama Papers
disclosure and the Olympic doping scandal as
US-directed efforts to defame Russia,
suggesting he sought to use disclosures to
discredit the image of the United States and
cast it as hypocritical.
 Putin most likely wanted to discredit Secretary
Clinton because he has publicly blamed her
since 2011 for inciting mass protests against
his regime in late 2011 and early 2012, and
because he holds a grudge for comments he
almost certainly saw as disparaging him.
We assess Putin, his advisers, and the Russian
Government developed a clear preference for
President-elect Trump over Secretary Clinton.
 Beginning in June, Putin’s public comments
about the US presidential race avoided directly
praising President-elect Trump, probably
because Kremlin officials thought that any
praise from Putin personally would backfire in
the United States. Nonetheless, Putin publicly
indicated a preference for President-elect
Trump’s stated policy to work with Russia, and
pro-Kremlin figures spoke highly about what
they saw as his Russia-friendly positions on
Syria and Ukraine. Putin publicly contrasted the
President-elect’s approach to Russia with
Secretary Clinton’s “aggressive rhetoric.”

 Moscow also saw the election of President-
elect Trump as a way to achieve an
international counterterrorism coalition against
the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL).
 Putin has had many positive experiences
working with Western political leaders whose
business interests made them more disposed
to deal with Russia, such as former Italian
Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and former
German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder.
 Putin, Russian officials, and other pro-Kremlin
pundits stopped publicly criticizing the US
election process as unfair almost immediately.

The motive for the investigation was the fact that Putin wanted Mr Trump to weaken the Western alliance and NATO allies.


Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Before the election, Russian diplomats had publicly denounced the US electoral process and were prepared to publicly call into question the validity of the results. Pro-Kremlin bloggers had prepared a Twitter campaign,


#DemocracyRIP,


The Russians intent was #DemocacyRIP.

Given the results of the election, they got what they wanted.

cowardly king obama said...

Roger Amick said...
Before the election, Russian diplomats had publicly denounced the US electoral process and were prepared to publicly call into question the validity of the results. Pro-Kremlin bloggers had prepared a Twitter campaign,

So basically roger is saying Obama killed the democracy.

Now I see what this "resistance" is all about.

and roger is desperately trying to sow discord. and run when he is called out.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Trump Tower meeting happened and then candidate Trump cooperated in arranging the meeting. (Allegedly) But he lied repeatedly in regards to the meeting. Is it criminal? No.

Does it matter that he has lied far more often than any other President in history? Yes! It should. But you dismiss it as Fake News.

You still cling to the only motivation is personal animosity on Trump by the leadership of the FBI and Justice department and the dossier. If they come to a conclusion that he violated the law, you will claim that the probable cause was not based upon facts or evidence, but partisan politics.

Crooked Hillary got the FBI to investigate for partisan reasons. Obama let it happen.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Evidence of drug use is impossible to ignore.

cowardly king obama said...

Roger Amick said...
Evidence of drug use is impossible to ignore.

You need to get it under control, you are embarrassing yourself

commie said...

You all have been ragging on Cortez and her campaign strategy....but you all accept this asshole and his idiocy in front of God and country and remain mute as church mice....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1OSLWo9SiU

Still wondering why KD has so much difficulty with a simple math problem...maybe some other righty is willing to help????

What is the % increase from $587 to $804??? I've asked 6 times and he keeps hiding!!! I just can't understand his claims of a degree from Loser U and his inability to complete a simple math problem!!! Is he afraid of the answer?????

cowardly king obama said...

Only low iq commie would seek help on a simple math problem and be so desperate he needs to ask 6 times. He obviously wouldn't even be able to recognize a correct response.

This isn't like begging on the street when you keep sticking your hat out.

Nobody here gives a shit.

ROFLMFAO !!!

Anonymous said...

Lol, answered you twice.
I am done feeding you troll.

Anonymous said...

Lol, answered you twice.
I am done feeding you troll.

Anonymous said...

Nancy Pelosi down graded September 11th, 2001 to an "Incident".
Then added:
"“We have a responsibility to protect our borders. All of our borders. Let’s make no mistake about that. Democrats have been strong on that point. All of our borders,” Pelosi told the reporters."

caliphate4vr said...

I just can't understand his claims of a degree from Loser U

LMAO from someone that went to FDU..

commie said...

LMAO from someone that went to FDU..

BWAAAAAAAA!!!!!! Your masters is from where....fucked up U or the drunk tank? Oh you don't have one or a lake house. Sorry,

commie said...

What is the % increase from $587 to $804???

KD said...
Lol, answered you twice.

No you didn't you fucking asshole liar.....Sad you have have the intellectual prowess of a gnat....Why don't you provide the time and thread for your answer,....too lazy asshole????

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
commie said...

Another aberration that may cause sustaining the trump massive GDP numbers problems...
The housing market is slowing down, and that's a bad sign for the economy
Amanda Fung 11 hours ago



0:28 2:20
What a housing slowdown means in a strong economy

A number of key reports on housing data released in recent days are on a downward trend. Both existing and new home sales in the U.S. were down in June, and their previous month’s results were revised lowered. The lackluster sales data caused homebuilder confidence to plummet to its lowest level in 10 months Wednesday.

“The housing market has been losing momentum for several months,” said Stifel Chief Economist Lindsey Piegza, referring to a slump in housing starts, building permits, and sales during the second quarter. “Housing is a solid gauge of the overall health of the economy; weakness in housing raises a large red flag regarding the sustainability of domestic growth heading into the second half of the year.”

caliphate4vr said...

Fatty if you drive slowly through shithole Jersey with your windows down, they’ll chuck a degree in

Don’t forget to show up in Dahlonega tomorrow I’ll buy you dinner then shove your teeth down your fat throat

commie said...

KD....Your answer is wrong....Like I thought you can't do math....An asshole of gigantic proportions.....LOL to funny even for an idiot like you!!! Try again you failure...LOLOLOL!!!

commie said...

you drive slowly through shithole Jersey with your windows down, they’ll chuck a degree in

BWAAAAAAAAAA!!! You really are an asshole....how's that advanced degree you got at party U? And now you are making threats like the big asshole you think you are....I'm shaking in my boots as these size 13's will fit snuggly up your giant ass with out lube...LOLOLOL!

Anonymous said...

2013 Obama budget declared, “In the 21st Century, real GDP growth in the United States is likely to be permanently slower than it was in earlier eras . . . .”

cowardly king obama said...

Let me help low iq commie out and do the math on his posting:

"The lackluster sales data caused homebuilder confidence to plummet to its lowest level in 10 months Wednesday"

THAT MEANS THEY ARE STILL HIGHER THAN OBAMA

ROFLMFAO !!!

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

I'm as clean as a baby

cowardly king obama said...

Roger Amick said...
I'm as clean as a baby

WRONG, No baby has the level of TDS you do

Anonymous said...

CKO.

GREAT JOB.

Anonymous said...

Chicken Liberals Believe the sky is falling.

Keep cheering for a full blown recession.

Barry Soetoro said...

I'm shaking in my boots as these size 13's
_____________________
BIG FEET EQUALS A BIG MOUTH EQUALS A TRIGGERED PUSSY TROLL!!!

caliphate4vr said...

Fatty with your plastic hips your shoe size is irrelevant

Anonymous said...

Existing home sales
Last Lost Year = 2016 5.45 million

2018 projected sales from Denise post, 5.50 million.


caliphate4vr said...

BTW Hobbits have big feet too!

LMAO

Anonymous said...

((NOT MY President)) Trump Declares California Emergency After Carr Fire Tornado.

4th time President Trump is bailing out CA.

Anonymous said...

"we could've only had a mild recession. it took 0linsky the magic negro to make it "GREAT." RRB

Yep.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Except for the anti rejection medication Lyrica and vitamin supplements I'm as clean as possible. I also spent more about 90 minutes in the gym today. You don't want to arm wrestle with this guy.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The Great Recession under President Bush was about the worst since another Republican Presidential was in office in 1929. FDR got us out of that. Historically speaking the worst economic recessions in the last 91 years happened under a Republican administration. A Democratic President got us into a pretty solid position. Trump has not fucked it up


Yet

Anonymous said...

Your version of history is that of a very stupid liberal child.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

I know a lot more about history than kput'z. Most children over 12 know more than he does.

commie said...

Blogger KD said...
"we could've only had a mild recession. it took 0linsky the magic negro to make it "GREAT." RRB

And it only took 3 years to get to the same level of tax revenue that busch created in his lost years...


4th time President Trump is bailing out CA.

How many times has he bailed out texas this year????

Still looking for the correct answer, jag off...

And your housing stats do not take away from the massive slowdown in housing that I posted....It is a leading indicator of future sales, not current as you try to rationalize how stupid you are...

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The Godfather Presidency

“When Trump was a little boy, wandering around job sites with his dad — which was the only time he got to spend with him — he saw a lot of guys with broken noses and rough accents. And I think he is really enchanted by base male displays of strength. Think about ‘Goodfellas’ — people who prevail by cheating and fixing and lying. Trump doesn’t have the baseline intellect and experience to be proficient at governing. His proficiency is this mob style of bullying and tough-guy talk.”

Maureen Dowd

commie said...

Thinking out of the box.....making resources last and become more efficient....Putz will think it costs too much....burn a tree for christ

From today's NY Times

July 24, 2018

Hoover Dam helped transform the American West, harnessing the force of the Colorado River — along with millions of cubic feet of concrete and tens of millions of pounds of steel — to power millions of homes and businesses. It was one of the great engineering feats of the 20th century.

Now it is the focus of a distinctly 21st-century challenge: turning the dam into a vast reservoir of excess electricity, fed by the solar farms and wind turbines that represent the power sources of the future.

The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, an original operator of the dam when it was erected in the 1930s, wants to equip it with a $3 billion pipeline and a pump station powered by solar and wind energy. The pump station, downstream, would help regulate the water flow through the dam’s generators, sending water back to the top to help manage electricity at times of peak demand.

The net result would be a kind of energy storage — performing much the same function as the giant lithium-ion batteries being developed to absorb and release power.

Barry Soetoro said...

The Godfather Presidency
______________________
SO WHAT PUSSY TROLL???,!!!?

Commonsense said...

Much like Roger Dowd is obsessed with Trump's alpha male sexuality.

commie said...

Dowd is obsessed with Trump's alpha male sexuality.

Your point is???? And you fawn over every single thing he does....keep slurping....

Anonymous said...

Today the US Economy is at it strongest in a generation. The snowflakes grew up being told historic slow growth and high unemployment are the "New Normal".

Welcome to Reality under the CEO of these United States.

Anonymous said...

"I know a lot more about history " alky

Well, you have yet to display that you do.

Myballs seeing America become great again said...

Obama gave us the new normal, slowest recovery in history. All the spinning of the economic simpleton here can't change that

Barry Soetoro said...

Much like Roger Dowd is obsessed with Trump's alpha male sexuality.
______________________
TRUTH!!!

commie said...

slowest recovery in history

Which formed the base for trumps triumph of 4.1%.....Your simplistic views are once again noted...LOLOLOL

KD said...
Well, you have yet to display that you do.

As you can't even calculate a simple percentage.....quite the display of kansas education LOLOLOL!!

Commonsense said...

Your point is????

Dowd's ranting aren't to be taken seriously, neither are Roger's, and neither are yours.

commie said...

Dowd's ranting aren't to be taken seriously,

Neither are yours.....However....she is paid handsomely for her musings....no one gives a shit about yours...

Commonsense said...

Yes, some clowns are handsomely paid.However, they are still clowns.

Anonymous said...

I care for CS well thought out opinions.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Myballs seeing America become great againJuly 29, 2018 at 8:38 AM
Obama gave us the new normal, slowest recovery in history. All the spinning of the economic simpleton here can't change that..."

The really funny economic fucktards tell us "W"'s economy was worse then "Carter's" economy.
And those same economic bug eaters attempt to credit The Lost Years for Trumpnomics.