FISA Documents on Carter Page released
What did we find out:
- That the Steele dossier was not only a part of the dossier, but it was the the main piece used. Almost all of the facts used on the FISA warrant came directly from the dossier.
- The FBI stated in the warrant that they had done due diligence to vet the facts from the FBI, and they claimed that said facts had been verified as accurate. The case supervisor signed the warrant under penalty of perjury that it was accurate. Obviously we know from sworn testimony (from a variety of hearings) that the FBI didn't verify the dossier, much less verify anything as accurate (the dossier was mostly inaccurate).
- That the sources used by Steele did not provide first hand information, but rather they used hear say evidence (in that they knew people who made claims). So in affect, the FBI relied on Steele, who they know relied on unknown sources, who relied on other source. All in all the FBI were using triple hearsay as facts for a FICA warrant. But claiming them as vetted.
- The warrant suggests not only that Steele did not know exactly who he was working for, but that he was never told about any effort to discredit Trump as a candidate. The warrant suggests the the source (Steele) did not know the motivation for the investigation. Furthermore the warrant never points out that Steele had any personal motivation. The FBI suggested that they "speculated" that the investigation was done for political purposes.
- That the warrant contained multiple references to "media reports" as evidence that Carter Page needed to be monitored. Moreover, it would appear that the sole reason for some of the renewals came from "media reports". Most importantly, the application states that the information from the media was independent of Richard Steele. But (again) we know that is not the case, and that the FBI would have known this at the time.
63 comments:
Trump Claims Vindication Despite Evidence to Contrary
---And Ch "Truth" follows right along like the obedient
little lapdog he has become.
EMPHASIS ADDED
“President Trump claimed WITHOUT EVIDENCE on Sunday that his administration’s release of top-secret documents related to the surveillance of a former campaign aide had CONFIRMED that the Justice Department and the F.B.I. ‘misled the courts’ in the early stages of the Russia investigation,” the New York Times reports.
Said Trump:
“Looking more & more like the Trump Campaign for President was illegally being spied upon (surveillance) for the political gain of Crooked Hillary Clinton and the DNC.”
“In a series of early-morning tweets, Mr. Trump left UNmentioned how the documents laid out in stark detail WHY the F.B.I was interested in the former campaign adviser, Carter Page.”
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The Snake Oil President's incessant lying is wrapping him into a tighter and tighter cocoon of falsehoods.
add emphasis above:
HOW THE DOCUMENTS LAID OUT IN STARK DETAIL
and then emphasize WHY
HOW THE DOCUMENTS LAID OUT IN STARK DETAIL
and then emphasize WHY
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A DAMN LIE.
BUT, THEN AGAIN, YOU'RE A DAMN LIAR.
James - did you read the released documents?
It is an embarrassment. Our law enforcement lied to get a warrant to spy on Carter Page. That can no longer be plausibly denied.
The warrant was issued because of an extensive investigation into the Russian meddling and it did include the dossier. But the dossier was not a factor in the issuing of the subpoena. It was just part of the extensive investigation and the judge clearly saw that there was probable cause to issue the subpoena.
They don't admit any motives except for the evidence.
There you go again with your opinion based upon your partisan beliefs.
That the Steele dossier was not only a part of the dossier, but it was the the main piece used. Almost all of the facts used on the FISA warrant came directly from the dossier.
That is false. You relied upon your various right wing websites to interpret the information upon their partisan beliefs.
Multiple former investigators have said that the FBI issued a standard request for a warrant on extensive investigations involving the media, because in the modern times the media has an influence on the investigations especially among those involved who used the internet to protect the candidate.
CH the omnipotent posted that....
It is an embarrassment.
BWAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!! To you and you don't count for anything more than a single vote....To see the same tired argument that the dossier had any bearing in the warrant is complete and utter BS driven by bias....Sorry.....shoes are dropping and soon will be on trumps throat....just like even rassmussen is showing....a declining trend in an already precarious administration....More cohen recordings will be the icing on your despair....LOLLOL
The FISA warrant on Page was justified because of his contacts with Russia, and the FBI and Justice Department followed proper procedure in seeking and getting the Foreign Intelligence.
The FBI's interest in Page predated its knowledge of the opposition research dossier and say it was not the dossier and the Page FISA warrant that prompted the FBI's counterintelligence investigation into Russia, but rather an earlier conversation that former Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos had with an Australian diplomat about alleged Russian dirt on Clinton.
The timeline discredits your accusations that the dossier was the first and primary evidence. You and your President believe that the FBI/DOJ practice partisan process in support of Hillary Clinton.
I have read portions of the 400 page report. But Scott you are not the Coldheartedtruth. An echo chamber of the President.
Commie, he is on vacation. But he always finds time to defend the indefensible.
The fake president spreading more BS just like our esteemed host....Blame all but yourself for your travails....sad you all slurp this crap like the losers you are....
Trump defends Putin summit, blames 'Fake News' for derision
Michael Walsh 5 hours ago
Trump tweets defense of Putin summit, blames 'Fake News' for public disapproval
President Trump defended last week’s divisive summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin, amid new reports that Americans disapproved of his actions by a wide margin.
On Sunday morning, Trump tweeted that his private meeting with Putin and news conference at the Presidential Palace in Helsinki on July 16 was a success, and that the press is responsible for the widespread criticism.
Many Americans were aghast that Trump, who has an insulting nickname for nearly every one of his political opponents, did not confront Putin over Moscow’s interference in the 2016 U.S. elections, and even cast doubt on the findings of his own intelligence agencies.
A new Washington Post-ABC News poll found that just one-third of Americans (33 percent) approve of how Trump handled his meeting with Putin whereas 50 percent did not. When asked about American leadership under Trump, 30 percent of respondents said it’s gotten stronger, 47 percent said it’s gotten weaker, 20 percent said it’s remained the same and 4 percent had no opinion. According to the survey, 56 percent of Americans disapproved of Trump for expressing doubt over the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusions about Russian meddling and 29 percent approved.
meeting with Putin and news conference at the Presidential Palace in Helsinki on July 16 was a success
Kinda like our esteemed host declaring CHT a success story with billions and billions of views.....LOLOLOL!!
CHT Awesome post of truth.
A new Washington Post-ABC
______________________
SO FUCKING WHAT!!!??!!
TRUMP IS STILL THE PRESIDENT, MOO MOO WEARING FATASS HILLARY WILL NEVER BE PRESIDENT AND YOU'RE JUST ANOTHER LIBERAL PUSSY.
That the Steele dossier was not only a part of the dossier, but it was the the main piece used. Almost all of the facts used on the FISA warrant came directly from the dossier.
_____________________
ABSOLUTELY THE TRUTH, BUT SINCE YOU'RE NOTHING BUT A RETARDED LIBERAL WHO LISTENS TO LIBERAL PROPAGANDA DAY AND NIGHT, YOU'RE TOO STUPID TO KNOW.
Funny how the kansan asshole and his shadow self arrive at the same time....I don't believe in coincidences......LOLOLOL!!!
Kinda like our esteemed host declaring CHT a success story with billions and billions of views.....LOLOLOL!!
_____________________
TRIGGERED PUSSY.
Funny how the kansan asshole and his shadow self arrive at the same time....I don't believe in coincidences......LOLOLOL!!
______________________
WHO CARES WHAT YOU BELIEVE LITTLE GIRL.
The only thing brainwashed trump sycophants know is that when trump lies, they swear it is the truth because they don't have the mental capacity to think on their own....Sad how low you all have fallen to fellate trump and his stupidity.
Hey Barry.....go service your pig wife and make her squeal !!! Than you can put on your knee pads, get down, raise your ass while trump gives you the fucking you deserve!!!! Too dayum funny!
You must get your information from Alex Jones.
That the Steele dossier was not only a part of the dossier, but it was the the main piece used. this is false .Almost all of the facts used on the FISA warrant came directly from the dossier. This is false also
You have no read the report but rely on nuts. Your insults are contrary to the host's request.
Than you can
___________________
"THEN" YOU STUPID HILLBILLY.
BWAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
Than you need to take a dump....it will clear what's left of your mind, KD Barry
TRIGGERED PUSSY.
Both Republicans and Democrats disagree with Scott. Sometimes we have a few Republicans who keep trying to get the Coldheartedtruth out on his President.
Before the release, Republicans had accused the bureau of failing to notify the court of the dossier’s political origins.
The application identifies Page by name and says that he engaged in “clandestine intelligence activities” on behalf of Russia and had been the target of Russian government recruitment. The application describes Russia as having interfered in the 2016 presidential election.
On Sunday, Rubio, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, disagreed with Trump’s conclusion that the Page wiretap was intended as a means of conducting surveillance on the Republican’s presidential campaign.
“I don’t think it’s part of any broader plot,” Rubio said.
Page “went around the world bragging about his connections to Russia” even before the campaign, which meant he was already “on their screen” at the FBI, Rubio said. “. . . I don’t believe that them looking into Carter Page means they were spying on the campaign.”
Six days after Trump’s meeting with Putin, both Graham and Rep. Adam B. Schiff (Calif.), the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, said they still do not know what Trump and Putin said when they met privately in Helsinki last week.
“We have no idea what this president, our president, agreed to,” Schiff said on ABC News’s “This Week.”
“Ostensibly there may have been agreements on Ukraine, on Syria, and who knows what else? . . . It is negligent with our national security for us not to know.”
Schiff said Trump is “acting like someone who is compromised by Russia.”
“It may very well be that he is compromised, or it may very well be that he believes that he’s compromised, that the Russians have information on him,” he said.
Responding to FISA release, Carter Page calls spying allegations ‘ridiculous’
https://wapo.st/2A0LyTz
Roger -
I doubt you read any of the document. Otherwise you would know that they called the dossier "Source #1" and that nearly all of the bullet points used were from "Source #1". The only corroboration shown was media reports (which the media outlet in question admits came directly from Steele), and what we now know is a lie that the FBI corroborated and verified the dossier.
The only other mention was that Page was previously under surveillance in 2013, which has nothing to do with the 2016 election. They didn't find anything on him in 2013, or in 2016.
But since you are arguing differently, why don't you point us to what other sources they used? Or are you going to use the same argument that the liberal media is attempting... that the "redacted" portions of the warrant applications are actually the other "sources".
Please Roger... instead of just insulting me, why don't you back up your assertion?
Roger -
Besides the fact that simply everything alleged in the FISA application turned out to be false. After months and months of monitoring, there was never even the slightest evidence brought forward that Page was any sort of spy or was doing any sort of colluding with the Russians.
So at worst the FBI was corrupt.
At best they were duped by Steele, and totally incompetent.
Take your pick.
Republican Senate nominee Corey Stewart (Va.) was interrupted by audience laughter during a debate on Saturday after saying President Trump "stands up" to Russia.
Stewart, the controversial chairman of the Prince William County Board of Supervisors, was participating in a debate against incumbent Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.).
He was attempting to attack Kaine's responses to acts of Russian aggression during the Obama administration, such as when Russians shot down an aircraft over Ukraine, or invaded Crimea.
"We have a president who is standing up to the Russians," Stewart said.
He was met by loud laughter from both the audience and his opponent.
I quit believing you when you bought into Fake News bullshit. liberal media is attempting redact information in the pursuit of the President and the FBI is partisan bs.
The dossier was not available when the investigation started. The FBI was duped by Steele in all the redacted sections. Again you assume something Incompetence in the best law enforcement department in America.
It's all partisan or Incompetence. Take your choice. They are both opinions by a bookkeeper.
The President assumed (Page was a spy or colluding with the Russians).
Trump told you everything alleged in the FISA application turned out to be false.
"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Accused Russian agent Maria Butina had wider high-level contacts in Washington than previously known, taking part in 2015 meetings between a visiting Russian official and two senior officials at the U.S. Federal Reserve and Treasury Department."
President Obama knew her personally.
Even Gowdy has betrayed the President.
House Oversight Chairman Trey Gowdy chastised Donald Trump for inviting Russian President Vladimir Putin to Washington, saying Sunday that some members of the president's administration should consider quitting if Trump won't listen to their advice.
“The fact that we have to talk to you about Syria or other matters is very different from issuing an invitation,” Gowdy said on “Fox News Sunday” of the Putin invitation, which the White House confirmed last week would be extended for the fall. “Those should be reserved for, I think, our allies.”
The South Carolina Republican suggested that some members of the administration may need to consider leaving if Trump continues to disregard their advice to stand firm against Russia.
That concern has dominated discourse in Washington since Trump’s summit with Putin in Helsinki last week, at which he spoke more harshly of the FBI than of Russia.
“It can be proven beyond any evidentiary burden that Russia is not our friend and they tried to attack us in 2016,” Gowdy told host Bret Baier. “So the president either needs to rely on the people that he has chosen to advise him, or those advisers need to reevaluate whether or not they can serve in this administration. But the disconnect cannot continue.”
Gowdy must have slept with Maria Butina.
Democrat James Comey.
The voice of the Democrat Party.
First he tells all Americans to Vote ONLY Democrat.
NOW, He tells you Democrats.
YOU must OBEY.
"Comey made an impassioned plea Sunday evening on Twitter, begging Democrats not to move to the “socialist left” because doing so would help Republicans in the midterm elections.
“Democrats, please, please don’t lose your minds and rush to the socialist left. This president and his Republican Party are counting on you to do exactly that. America’s great middle wants sensible, balanced, ethical leadership,” Comey tweeted.
Roger -
The dossier existed (and was source #1) in the FICA Warrant to put surveillance on Carter Page. Are you confusing the FICA Warrant with something else? Because this is thread specific to the FICA Warrant.
Unless you can provide the alternate sources that the FICA Warrant repeatedly cited as they did Source #1 (and feel free to go back through the 400 pages) - you are full of shit.
Again, read my post. It offers five different bullet points. Only one of them did you bother to refute, but you did so with absolutely zero evidence to back up your refutation. If you could point to other "sources" other than the Dossier, you would have provided them.
As it stands, all you appear to offer is insults, strawman, and an apparent confusion about what our discussion is about.
Gaining power , growing organically.
#Walkaway.
I did decide to do just a little copy and paste.
The judges weighing the application, all four Republican appointees were made aware of the circumstances of the Steele dossier, and they were provided with evidence beyond its contents anyway.
“I don’t think they did anything wrong. I think they went to the court, they got the judges to approve it, they laid out all the information, and there was a lot of reasons unrelated to the dossier for why they wanted to look at Carter Page,” Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL), a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said in a separate appearance on State of the Union on Sunday.
He has access to the unredacted documents as a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Unlike most other people here he came to another conclusion. He is not a liberal Democrat who can't get over losing to Trump. (Sarcasm)
(That the Steele dossier was not only a part of the dossier, but it was the the main piece used. Almost all of the facts used on the FISA warrant came directly from the dossier.)
Take this up with Rubio they laid out all the information, and there was a lot of reasons unrelated to the dossier for why they wanted to look at Carter Page,”
There is an Insult addiction Anonymous meeting tomorrow morning.
I did decide to do just a little copy and paste.
_____________________
THERE'S A SHOCK. A C/P FROM THE KING OF C/P.
The copy paste was the words of Senator Mario Rubio (F) Florida
This is written by a real lawyer. Not the high school educated carpenter or an opinionated Birther lover.
The Nunes memo accused the FBI of dishonesty in failing to disclose information about Steele, but in fact the Nunes memo itself was dishonest in failing to disclose what the FBI disclosed. I said then, and I still believe, that the “Nunes memo was dishonest. And if it is allowed to stand, we risk significant collateral damage to essential elements of our democracy.”
Now we have some additional information in the form of the redacted FISA applications themselves, and the Nunes memo looks even worse. In my earlier post, I observed that the FBI’s disclosures about Steele were contained in a footnote, but argued that this did not detract from their sufficiency: “As someone who has read and approved many FISA applications and dealt extensively with the FISA Court, I will anticipate and reject a claim that the disclosure was somehow insufficient because it appeared in a footnote; in my experience, the court reads the footnotes.” Now we can see that the footnote disclosing Steele’s possible bias takes up more than a full page in the applications, so there is literally no way the FISA Court could have missed it. The FBI gave the court enough information to evaluate Steele’s credibility.
There’s also more detail on the previous disclosure from the House intelligence committee Democrats’ memo on how Steele went to the press with the “dossier” when FBI Director James Comey sent his October 2016 letter to Congress disclosing the possible newfound importance of the Weiner laptop in the Clinton investigation. According to the FISA applications, Steele complained that Comey’s action could influence the election. But when Steele went to the press, it caused FBI to close him out as an informant—facts which are disclosed and cross-referenced in the footnote in bold text.
While I am sure people will try, my initial impression is that with all the redactions it is going to be very tough to figure out the full scope of information supporting the Court’s repeated finding of probable cause to believe that Carter Page was an agent of Russia. There is a mention of two Russians, one of whom pleaded guilty to being an unregistered agent of a foreign government and was sentenced to 30 months, but even that is disconnected from the redacted discussion that precedes it. Substantively, the government seems to have hewed as closely to the prior disclosures as it could in applying FOIA.
But it is worth noting that—and as the Democrats previously pointed out—the judges who signed off on these four FISA applications were all appointed by Republican presidents, including one George H.W. Bush appointee (Anne Conway), two George W. Bush appointees (Rosemary Collyer and Michael Mosman) and one Reagan appointee (Raymond Dearie). I know some of those judges, and they certainly are not the types to let partisan politics affect their legal judgments.
Of course they issued the warrant for partisan reasons. Or were misled by the corrupt FBI.
Take your pick.
David Kris is a founder of Culper Partners LLC. He previously served as assistant attorney general for national security, associate deputy attorney general, trial attorney at the Department of Justice, general counsel at Intellectual Ventures, and deputy general counsel and chief ethics and compliance officer at Time Warner. He is the author or co-author of several works on national security, including the treatise National Security Investigations and Prosecutions, and has taught at Georgetown University and the University of Washington.
David Kris is a founder of Culper Partners LLC.
_______________________
SO WHAT!!!?!!!
He wrote that above .
To Iranian President Rouhani: NEVER, EVER THREATEN THE UNITED STATES AGAIN OR YOU WILL SUFFER CONSEQUENCES THE LIKES OF WHICH FEW THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE EVER SUFFERED BEFORE. WE ARE NO LONGER A COUNTRY THAT WILL STAND FOR YOUR DEMENTED WORDS OF VIOLENCE & DEATH. BE CAUTIOUS!
CH continues to be full of it with...
(and was source #1)
Your opinion....since you claimed to have read the DOJ release...what did you fill in for all the redacted pages??? Your own words or opinion....Sad you are so prone to trump lies and crap. Again, you have no basis other than opinion that supports that allegation...IOW's no matter what you write or opine, you cannot provide a single fact that supports what you say. GIVE IT UP!!!!!
And the beat goes on and CH will slurp it up like the rest of the dummies...Big Hoax....keep sucking CH!!!
Trump warns Iranian president of consequences ‘few ... have ever suffered’
In a late-night tweet, President Trump told Iranian President Hassan Rouhani to “NEVER, EVER THREATEN THE UNITED STATES AGAIN” or Iran would face severe consequences. Earlier, Rouhani said the United States should avoid inciting Iranians against the government, telling a meeting of his diplomats that “war with Iran is the mother of all wars.”
By Carol Morello1 hour ago
Trump again reverses course on Russian interference, calling it ‘all a big hoax’
The comment follows a week of statements, walk-backs and clarifications on whether the president believes the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia interfered in the 2016 campaign.
Funny.....all those words in the DOJ release.....and CH concludes the dossier was the prime source and that the R party was utterly BS ing what they alleged....Sad...so much brain, so little reasoning...LOLOLOLOL!!
By Charlie Savage
July 22, 2018
2
WASHINGTON — When President Trump declassified a memo by House Republicans in February that portrayed the surveillance of a former campaign adviser as scandalous, his motivation was clear: to give congressional allies and conservative commentators another avenue to paint the Justice Department’s investigation into Russian election interference as tainted from the start.
But this past weekend, Mr. Trump’s unprecedented decision, which he made over the objections of law enforcement and intelligence officials, had a consequence that revealed his gambit’s shaky foundation. The government released the court documents in which the F.B.I. made its case for conducting the surveillance — records that plainly demonstrated that key elements of Republicans’ claims about the bureau’s actions were misleading or false.
On Sunday, Mr. Trump nevertheless sought to declare victory. In a series of early-morning tweets, he claimed without evidence that the newly disclosed files “confirm with little doubt that the Department of ‘Justice’ and FBI misled the courts” to win approval to start wiretapping the former adviser, Carter Page, shortly after he had left the campaign amid criticism of his ties to Russia.
“Looking more & more like the Trump Campaign for President was illegally being spied upon (surveillance) for the political gain of Crooked Hillary Clinton and the DNC,” Mr. Trump wrote on Twitter, referring to the Democratic National Committee.
Mr. Trump’s portrayal, which came as the administration is trying to repair the damage from his widely criticized meeting with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, revived the claims put forward in February by Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee. But in respect after respect, the newly disclosed documents instead corroborated rebuttals by Democrats on the panel who had seen the top-secret materials and accused Republicans of mischaracterizing them to protect the president.
The records again cast an unflattering light on Representative Devin Nunes, the committee’s chairman, who led the attack on the F.B.I. surveillance, though he admitted in February that he had not read the application documents. Mr. Nunes has taken repeated steps to try to bolster Mr. Trump and undercut the Russia investigation.
Wonder if the sycophants here will come out of their trump coma?????
Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.) said on Sunday that President Donald Trump’s advisers should consider leaving the White House if Trump continues to publicly disparage the nation’s intelligence community and cast doubt on the evidence that Russia interfered in the 2016 election.
“The president either needs to rely on the people that he has chosen to advise him, or those advisers need to re-evaluate whether or not they can serve in this administration,” Gowdy said on Fox News Sunday, referring to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats and U.N. ambassador Nikki Haley. “But the disconnect cannot continue. The evidence is overwhelming and the president needs to say that and act like it.”
Trump said Monday at a press conference during his Helsinki summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin that he didn’t see why Russia would be involved with election interference. He walked back that statement a day later, saying he’d meant to say he didn’t see why Russia wouldn’t be involved.
But Gowdy said his issues with Trump’s performance went beyond that one line. Trump, in his press conference comments, also gave credence to Putin’s denials of Russian efforts to subvert U.S. politics and did not stand up the contrary findings of his administration’s top intelligence officials.
So at worst the FBI was corrupt.
At best they were duped by Steele, and totally incompetent.
Take your pick.
for starters i don't think it's an either / or. we've learned that the FBI IS corrupt, and it's entirely likely that this was done rather sloppily or less than competently because remember -
- this was never supposed to see the light of day to begin with.
hillary was supposed to win and 0linsky was supposed to get away with orchestrating the spying on the trump campaign.
now then, when it comes to the alky refuting your argument, good luck with that. regardless of the topic, he's shown that he is consistently unable to refute or back up anything. the alky exists to provide an endless stream of copy/pastes, often with shit that is completely irrelevant to the point he's trying to make. so far he's repeated rubio's and gowdy's talking points, (BFD), and alerted us to the fact that all four judges offering FISA approval were appointed by republicans (also, BFD).
In an interview on "Fox News Sunday," Gowdy said that a secret court should have been told that the dossier was partially paid for by the Clinton campaign when the FBI sought a surveillance warrant on Carter Page, a former adviser on Trump's campaign.
"The FBI missed a really good opportunity to tell the judge exactly who paid for that," Gowdy said.
The House Oversight Committee chairman's comments came a day after the Justice Department released documents related to the surveillance of Page. Those documents outline allegations that Page had "been the subject of targeted recruitment by the Russian government."
They also cite a dossier compiled in 2016 by former British intelligence agent Christopher Steele that alleges ties between the Trump campaign and Russia.
Republicans have repeatedly accused senior Justice Department officials of inappropriately using the dossier to obtain surveillance warrants on members of Trump's transition team – a point that Gowdy doubled down on.
"I don’t have an issue with looking into people that have cozy relationships with Russia," Gowdy said. "I do have an issue when you rely on unvetted political opposition research."
“My take is that Carter Page is more like Inspector Gadget than Jason Bourne or James Bond,” Gowdy added.
http://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/398238-gowdy-blasts-justice-department-for-failing-to-disclose-dossier
The real scary part is that the FBI manage to get a FISA warrent on an American citizen based on what amounted to be front page headlines from the National Enquirer.
The standard of proof should have been somewhat more stringent since the target of the warrent gets no representation before the court.
Roger...
Not one of your copy and pastes lists a single source to repute my point. Rubio's statement means nothing now that we have all seen the dossier, as he fails (as you do) to list any other source.
Why, when you can read it yourself, do you take someone's word for it?
Andrew McCarthy (who is a former federal prosecutor who made warrant requests) was shocked at what the actual documentation stated. His statements on the subject (backed up by quotes and parts of the document that he refers to) are that the FBI used a combination of the dossier, media reports, and most importantly... a claim that the allegations from the dossier had been verified as accurate by follow up FBI research. Which of course, was a total misrepresentation of the facts.
Why do I prefer his opinion? Because it is based on him specifically quoting the dossier, referring to which pages show what he states, and pretty much a total reliance on the document itself.
Therefor, I can actually read the sections he talks about, and see that what he says is true.
Not one of your sources states... hey look on page 121 and you see source #2, page 141 Source #3, page 160 Source #4, etc, etc, etc... They simply say something generic and you believe them (because you want to).
Lastly, I have heard the argument that either three of the four FICA Judges are Republican appointees, or that all four were Republican appointees.
That is an interesting argument, considering the names of the Judges have remained in the past (and still remain) secret.
If you don't know who the Judges even are, how can you argue that you know who appointed them?
This is the ultimate problem with your inability to think for yourself, Roger. You simply take other opinions at their word, at least if those opinions correspond to what you want to believe.
bottom line:
You want to win an argument with me, you need to supply facts.
I really couldn't give a bigger shit what other politicians or writers state, unless those statements are backed up with actual verifiable facts. I don't care if that person is a blogger or a Republican Senator. Bring the facts to the table, or shut the hell up.
So you can spend the next 10 hours gathering opinions that differ from mine, and it won't matter to me one iota. What you need to do is go through the document yourself, and use that particular document to push back on the bullet points that "I" took from the document.
BFD
four Republican judges obviously thought there was something there.
If they were appointed by a Democratic President you would have been nuclear.
Hypocrisy is rrb
Roger Amick said...
BFD
four Republican judges obviously thought there was something there.
If they were appointed by a Democratic President you would have been nuclear.
Hypocrisy is rrb
alky,
the fact that a republican appointed a particular judge does not guarantee that the judge is a republican. see: souter, david.
so rather than fuck around playing games with me, you would be better served responding to CH, who as we speak, is in the process of cleaning your fucking clock on the topic of this thread.
The POTUS still lying every chance he gets!!! Rat the hole slurps it like his last meal, which can't happen soon enough...
Trump calls for end of Mueller probe, says it is ‘discredited’ by Carter Page surveillance
The president falsely claimed that the special counsel investigation was sparked by surveillance of Page, a former Trump campaign adviser who was under susp
That is an interesting argument, considering the names of the Judges have remained in the past (and still remain) secret.
If you don't know who the Judges even are, how can you argue that you know who appointed them?
the judges who signed off on these four FISA applications were all appointed by Republican presidents, including one George H.W. Bush appointee (Anne Conway), two George W. Bush appointees (Rosemary Collyer and Michael Mosman) and one Reagan appointee (Raymond Dearie).
You simply take your own opinions as the gospel, those opinions correspond to what you want to believe. The evidence be dammed. The evidence is that the dossier was not the dominant source of information on the application submitted to the four judges, two George W. Bush appointees (Rosemary Collyer and Michael Mosman) and one Reagan appointee (Raymond Dearie) issued the warrant upon a the preponderance of evidence.
You cling to the belief that the FBI was either incompetent or politically motivated, take your pick. Your interpretation of the points from the portions of the document that confirmed your partisan beliefs and ignored the footnotes and the basic fact that the timeline clearly shows that the investigation began before the dossier entered into the matter. My opinion based upon the footnotes and yes, my belief is that FBI investigators were not politically motivated but are dedicated professionals who followed the evidence they put upon the desks of the four judges, in my opinion, certainly are not the types to let partisan politics affect their legal judgments.
Your opinion on portions "I" you took from the documents are not motivated by the desire to find the truth Scott. Sincerely I don't think that you can think outside of your partisan beliefs.
Of course I have my own opinions, but I sincerely try to separate my political views and make up my mind upon the facts.
As to bullet point "1" I did reply.
I admit that I am not a lawyer. But I read opinions on both sides by lawyers. I based my opinion upon the facts.
1: The dossier was not the primary reason to initiate the investigation.
2: The extension investigation was intended to follow the evidence. The evidence that they provide to the four judges issued the warrant motivated the warrants.
3: bullet points that "I" took from the document. They all had the same shit.
"The FBI suggested that they "speculated"
Your opinion was clearly partisan.
It is repeated in every single bullet point. The assumption of partisanship is your opinion based upon your own partisanship.
Nice try. Try again. Find no problem with the President and his tweet proclaiming war on Iran in CAPITALS AT 2:00 AM
The evidence is that the dossier was not the dominant source of information
Ok Roger...
Show me that evidence.
Don't just "claim" that it exists.
And let's keep in mind Roger... that the Judge who ruled on this warrant took the FBI's word that they had vetted and verified most of the claims of Source #1. But they hadn't.
So this is the one time I will ask you to cut and paste (from the document released - not from any third Party) -- showing the evidence that you found that the FICA warrant did not rely on Source #1 for most of the justification.
one of my favorite things about this FISA fiasco is the fact that alky favorite mark levin correctly called this back in march of 2017.
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10154139781040946
1: The dossier was not the primary reason to initiate the investigation.
actually it was. but since you believe otherwise help us understand what WAS the primary reason.
Rat -
The warrant application is now out there for anyone to view. As they say, this allows "intelligent people to draw their own conclusions".
The dumb people will continue to rely on others to do their thinking.
this is why i seriously question the alky's intellect. this is one of those cases that requires a willing suspension of disbelief to draw a conclusion other than the obvious one. the warrant application - even with its redactions - is as self explanatory as it can be.
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