 |
| Mueller fans preying for evidence of collusion! |
Now quite obviously there are many many people who are simply besides themselves with anguish over the President's use of twitter. Granted, these are generally people with no lives, who have been infected with TDS to the point of incoherency, and are stricken with depression and grief because Trump is President. But these people (eg: Roger) do exist, and they would like nothing more than to see the President impeached, jailed, or even put to death over the excessive political rhetoric.
(I always wonder why these people read his twitter feed if it upsets them so - but that's a different issue all together)
But even those who are wallowing in despair, must see the difference between criticism and obstruction. The day when an officer of the court is allowed to charge someone with a crime for publicly professing their innocence or otherwise criticizing an investigation is the day when we become a police state with no regard for our First Amendment freedoms, not to mention the numerous other Amendments that protect our citizens from unfair police action.
But to the more central point of all of this, Robert Mueller's job (whether he likes it or not) is a political as well as legal one. His ultimate assignment was to find out what happened in the 2016 election regarding Russian influence, as well as find out if any American citizens (specifically Trump campaign officials) colluded with them. Unless Robert Mueller finds that there were Trump campaign officials colluding with Russia, and that Donald Trump was aware of said collusion, then every bit of Donald Trump's criticism and attacks on the process can be argued to be justified.
The reality here is that the optics for Mueller would be horrifying if he were to find no evidence of collusion on one hand, while on the other hand attempting to scrape together a unique allegation of "obstruction" against the President over what amounts to criticism of the general process and of Mueller specifically. Mueller would come across as a man frustrated at his failure to find an actual crime, and then lashing out with a "fake crime" because he is thin skinned to criticism. This would reek of the "deep state" openly taking a swipe at a duly elected President who doesn't conform with "their" idea of political norms.
Already there are legal experts coming out of the woodwork, providing anything from a more subdued "cautioning of Mueller" to think twice, to declaring such an attempt to be downright ridiculous. I am no expert, but I tend to lean more towards "ridiculous".
38 comments:
is that pic of mueller's fans or mueller's legal team?
and i understand if you can't tell them apart.
"Mueller fans preying for evidence of collusion!"
Roger and friends have row seats.
Andrew Sullivan has Scott nailed.
Con men usually know that a con has a life span, and not a long one. At some point, it will collapse because it is, in fact, bullshit. By then, the best con men have made the sale — think of “Trump University” — and moved on. They also know that keeping the suckers sealed off from other sources of contrary information is essential until the deal is done. You have to maintain a fiction relentlessly, dismiss or delegitimize external information that might get your marks to think differently, and constantly make the sale. You have to humor and flatter and bullshit all the time, until you’ve sealed the deal.
ADVERTISEMENT
And Trump is really, really good at this. In fact, it’s his chief skill, along with his instinct for the easy mark and another human being’s vulnerable spot. It has worked many times before. It’s at the root of his entire shady business career. His problem now, however, is that this is the biggest of all cons, if you’re playing at a presidential level, and is also the longest. It has to be sustainable for at least four years. And that’s an extremely long time to keep it alive.
fixed it for you alky...
Con men like Skeets Hussein 0linsky usually know that a con has a life span, and not a long one. In Skeets' case it was eight years. At some point, it will collapse because it is, in fact, bullshit. By then, the best con men have made the sale — think of “not a smidgen of corruption at the IRS” — and moved on. They also know that keeping the suckers sealed off from other sources of contrary information is essential until the deal is done. Like sending out Susan Rice to lie about the cause of the Benghazi terror attack on five different Sunday news shows. You have to maintain a fiction relentlessly, investigate reporters like Fox's James Rosen, dismiss or delegitimize external information that might get your marks to think differently, and constantly make the sale. You have to humor and flatter and bullshit all the time, until you’ve sealed the deal.
i didn't know you and queen andrew were lovebirds again. good for you alky. you do seem to be made for each other.
If Robert Mueller finds that there were Trump campaign officials colluding with Russia, and that Donald Trump was aware of said collusion, then every bit of Donald Trump's criticism and attacks on the process can be argued to be justified.
No matter when he charges the President with collusion some people that do exist (eg:Scott) will say Mueller would come across as a man frustrated at his failure to find an actual crime, and then lashing out with a "fake crime" because he is thin skinned to criticism.
TDS is the worst epidemic in history that has infected approximately 40% of the American voters. It will be sustainable for at least four years.
hey alky,
why did mueller hand off the cohen case to the southern district of NY? i thought that case was directly related to the pending crucifixion of trump.
TDS is the worst epidemic in history that has infected approximately 40% of the American voters. It will be sustainable for at least four years.
i'm proud of your self diagnoses alky. the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem, right?
oh, and btw... 4 years? you had better make it 8.
No matter when he charges the President with collusion
Roger
Nobody can be "charged" with collusion, because it's not a crime.
Roger
Nobody can be "charged" with collusion, because it's not a crime.
let him go. he's like blutarsky "when the germans bombed pearl harbor."
Technically your correct. Collusion would be a violation or the Constitution. But no matter what if he changes the President with a crime you (eg:Scott) will say Mueller would come across as a man frustrated at his failure to find an actual crime, and then lashing out with a "fake crime" because he is thin skinned to criticism. And created a phantom crime.
The key charge in the case, which is called conspiracy to defraud the United States, is spelled out this way in the indictment:
Defendants, together with others known and unknown to the Grand Jury, knowingly and intentionally conspired to defraud the United States by impairing, obstructing, and defeating the lawful functions of the Federal Election Commission, the U.S. Department of Justice, and the U.S. Department of State in administering federal requirements for disclosure of foreign involvement in certain domestic activities.
No Roger...
I am specifically stating that if Mueller finds no "actual" crime that can be previously defined by previous people being previously charged...
and that he then decides to claim that there is such a thing as "Twitter obstruction" and that Trump must be guilty of this new made up crime...
Then he will look like an idiot.
btw...
The charges of conspiracy to defraud the Federal Election Commission has never once been brought before by any prosecutor anywhere in our legal system.
While it may not be as "made up" as "Twitter obstruction" it's a fairly thin charge. These charges have already been challenged in court by Concord Management who *(among other things) has asked for Grand Jury Instructions "based" on the fact that these charges have never been brought.
You wanna bet on how many Russians end up in jail, Rog?
you (eg:Scott) will say Mueller would come across as a man frustrated at his failure to find an actual crime, and then lashing out with a "fake crime" because he is thin skinned to criticism. And created a phantom crime.
well alky, the premise of pursuing a man for obstruction of justice based upon public tweets (public, not even private DM's) is my idea of a phantom crime.
just because it made your new girlfriend maggie haberman's panties moist doesn't mean it's a fucking crime.
Defendants, together with others known and unknown to the Grand Jury, knowingly and intentionally conspired to defraud the United States by impairing, obstructing, and defeating the lawful functions of the Federal Election Commission, the U.S. Department of Justice, and the U.S. Department of State in administering federal requirements for disclosure of foreign involvement in certain domestic activities.
besides the fact that as CH correctly stated this has never been charged, if you read it carefully it implies manipulation of the vote count. it has to. a hundred grand spend on fakebook ads sure doesn't violate it. a few thousand russian twitter bots doesn't violate it either.
oh, and if the international community and their corresponding courts would consider getting involved, no country on earth has a longer and more sordid history of manipulating foreign elections and overthrowing foreign governments than we do. and it's not ancient history either. ask netanyahu about how 0linsky tried to fuck him using taxpayer dollars in the last israeli election.
this is why mueller has had to sink to the level of reading trump's twitter feed. how fucking desperate do you have to be to try and build a case of obstruction against someone for what they've said in the public square.
at this point you're beyond mocking on this topic alky. i have never in my life seen someone dig their heels in so hard and so deep on a topic where they are so demonstrably fucking wrong.
So even if the candidate Trump cooperated with the Russians to alter the outcome of the election is just fine with you Scott The Puppet.
Scott believes that even if the candidate Trump cooperated with the Russians to alter the outcome of the election, it is just fine.
Traitor
wp was correct. There is no reason to engage in a debate with someone who is inherently dishonest.
Republicans believe that even if candidate @realDonaldTrump cooperated with the Russians to alter the outcome of the election, no problem. What has happened to the party in Ronald Reagan? Abraham Lincoln? Collusion is not a crime.
WEST HOLLYWOOD, Calif. — Michael Avenatti, the attorney for porn actress Stormy Daniels, said Thursday that he now represents three additional women who he says had relationships with President Donald Trump and were paid "hush money" before the 2016 presidential election.
Avenatti disclosed the information at a community forum in West Hollywood, California, but he would not provide additional information.
Asked if he had evidence that the women had relationships with Trump, Avenatti said: "Yes."
The source of the money is relevant.
We don't have an extradition agreement with the Russians. But Trump wants to send our former ambassador to Russia for "interrogation" yet again you have no problem with that. Insults instead are all you have left. wp said that you are a waste of time.
Roger -
What exactly would be "cooperation" anyways?
Did Trump "cooperate" by winning?
But what we know "for sure" is that you were just fine with Hillary and the DNC hiring a foreign agent to go talk to Russians and dig up dirt on Trump.
Only when Democrats work with British agents and Russians, it's not called collusion. It's called opposition research.
But Democrats also know that their faithful are dumb enough to fall for the semantic argument.
Two days before the meeting he said that on next Monday that I will have an important speech on crooked Hillary Clinton and you are going to have be amazed.
This is a conspiracy against the United States. They didn't actually get anything from the meeting, but it's still an action against the country.
If the candidate Trump had called up his bff Vladimir Putin and requested his assistance in winning the election and it will be to your benefit him, you would not have any problem with Trump.
Your a puppet.
Scott: If the candidate Trump had called up his bff Vladimir Putin and requested his assistance in winning the election and it will be to your benefit him, you would not have any problem with Trump.
Roger
Let me know when you are done asking really stupid questions that have no basis in logic.
I will be happy to reengage when you come back to reality here in 2018. You know, in that place where nearly two years later, there still isn't a smidgen of evidence that Trump did anything wrong (other than win an election).
Russia is not our friend. Historically speaking it has been attacking it's bordering nations. It's used Trump to weaken the United States. It's been successful since Trump entered the equation. Millions of Americans don't believe that our free press is Fake News.
You believe that the FBI/DOJ practice partisan investigations against Trump. Thousands of Americans who have put their lives on the line to enforce our laws and Constitution have been given the name as partisans hacks.
Every single intelligence agency in the country has stated repeatedly that the Russians interfered in the election. The President has been claiming that it is nothing but a (Witch Hunt) or a (hoax).
The Russians were aggressively targeting Clinton and the swing state voters with yes, social media to influence voters. Not Americans but Russians and we will never know if it altered the outcome of the election. They are our enemy not our friends.
Your President is dismantling the western alliance that kept the Russians from spreading not only Communism but authoritarian ideology and leadership.
It's not just the election Scott it's far more complicated and dangerous to our freedoms. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that if in 2020 the President would declare the election was manipulated by the Democratic party and is therefore invalid, you would write 500 word excuses for his actions.
I agree with wp. You're lost in space. Reality is what Trump says it is and you will be there with him
Millions of Americans believe that our free press is Fake News.
This is exactly reverse logic.
Unless Robert Mueller finds that there were Trump campaign officials colluding with Russia, and that Donald Trump was aware of said collusion, then every bit of Donald Trump's criticism and attacks on the process can be argued to be justified.
Unless he finds evidence of official collusion between the campaign staff and Trump was aware of the said collusion that Trump was justified? To declare the investigation was invalid.
IOW no matter what Muller finds Trump is innocent. The partisan (logic) is illogical. You can't have it both ways.
Unless of course Trump tells you how to "think". He said that the other day that no matter what the Fake News tells you, I will tell you what the truth is.
Roger
Only one of us constantly cuts & pastes other peoples opinion. Quite literally doing so is an admission that others are doing your thinking for you.
Donald J. Trump
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
The FAKE NEWS media (failing @nytimes, @NBCNews, @ABC, @CBS, @CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!
I wrote this.
I wrote that myself.
Trump tells you how to "think". He said that the other day that no matter what the Fake News tells you, I will tell you what the truth is.
I think for myself.
Scott I took your illogical comment and demonstrated that you are not thinking for yourself anymore.
You support a President who believes that the free press is an enemy of the American People!
The Constitution of the United States is the Supreme law not Donald Trump. He has stated repeatedly that he can do anything as President. You continue to defend everything he says and does no matter what.
This is not a cut and paste Scott. I didn't get my talking points though the White House staff like you.
Russia is not our friend. Historically speaking it has been attacking it's bordering nations. It's used Trump to weaken the United States. It's been successful since Trump entered the equation. Millions of Americans don't believe that our free press is Fake News.
You believe that the FBI/DOJ practice partisan investigations against Trump. Thousands of Americans who have put their lives on the line to enforce our laws and Constitution have been given the name as partisans hacks.
Every single intelligence agency in the country has stated repeatedly that the Russians interfered in the election. The President has been claiming that it is nothing but a (Witch Hunt) or a (hoax).
The Russians were aggressively targeting Clinton and the swing state voters with yes, social media to influence voters. Not Americans but Russians and we will never know if it altered the outcome of the election. They are our enemy not our friends.
Your President is dismantling the western alliance that kept the Russians from spreading not only Communism but authoritarian ideology and leadership.
It's not just the election Scott it's far more complicated and dangerous to our freedoms. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that if in 2020 the President would declare the election was manipulated by the Democratic party and is therefore invalid, you would write 500 word excuses for his actions.
Your President (the president’s election security meeting only lasted a measly 30 minutes, cut short to fly off to Bedminster to golf)
If Obama acted like that you would have been screaming.
But it's a Witch Hunt Hoax. No biggie
FORE!
He won the election.
The American people made a mistake. Well almost 3 million more Americans voted for Crooked Hillary. But the 72,000 voters in three states swung the election to Trump.
John W. Dean was Richard Nixon’s White House counsel. He served a four-month sentence for his role in Watergate.
It was the fake legal analysis by Fox News in June—claiming that “collusion” with a foreign government violated no law—that prompted me to look. Surely Fox knows it fooled only fools. Collusion is the descriptive word the news media has settled on to cover many potential illegal actions by the Trump campaign, which could range from aiding and abetting (18 USC 2) to conspiracy per se (18 USC 371) to conspiring to violate several potentially applicable laws like: 18 USC 1030—fraud and related activity in connection with computers; 18 USC 1343—wire fraud; or 52 USC 30121—contributions and donations by foreign nationals. Also, 18 USC 2381—for, contrary to a widespread belief that there must be a declared war, the Justice Department as recently as 2006 indicted for “aid and comfort” to our enemies, the form of collusion better known as treason. Collusion is the perfect word to cover such crimes, pejorative and inclusive.
The Atlantic
Post a Comment