Monday, December 24, 2018

Cognitive dissonance at it's finest!

So yesterday I posted some additional information regarding the recent decision to remove our troops from Syria. This post "triggered" an irrational response that could the poster child of Trump induced cognitive dissonance. Several comments of insults, exasperation, conspiracy theories, and of course some more insults.

All because I posted some additional information.

Heck, I didn't even necessarily suggest that this additional information actually provided any evidence as to whether or not the decision to leave was correct or not. I just offered that it was information, and that anyone who relies on the MSM for their information would not have heard about it. 

But the existence of this additional information, along with the obvious notion that it was being ignored by CNN, NYT, and WaPo was still enough to trigger an irrational reaction.

You see the Trump-haters were being sold a simple bill of goods. The bad orange man, prompted by conservative talk show radio hosts, Jared Kushner, and voices in his head made an impromptu decision without any thought, and obviously without any input from anyone he should be listening to.

More to the point, the entire Syria issue had been dumbed down for the Trump-haters into the idea that our American troops are there for the noble cause of aiding the helpless kurds from being otherwise annihilated and wiped out by ISIS. 

This doesn't even begin to qualify as an oversimplification. 

The reality is that we have been providing aid to Syrian rebels taking part in a civil war to overthrow the Government of Assad. That was the major mission here. It's not (as we are being told today) about fighting ISIS. To whatever degree that has become the case, that was never our original intent. 

To make that argument today, is simply dishonest. 
But it is simple. 
Orange man bad. Fighting ISIS good. 

Moreover, we have for all practical purposes given up on the idea of overthrowing that government. We are there without a declaration of war, without an congressional authorization for military action, certainly not with the blessing of the Syrian government, and it would now appear that we are without any real long term goal. 

Now, is there disagreement as to whether or not these troops should leave Syria?  Certainly. But it's obviously not a simple issue of orange man bad, fighting ISIS good.

The main issue here is that there seems to be an unwillingness by many to concede anything to the Russians at this point, and that would include conceding Syria to Assad (who is backed by Russia). In fact, we had been very close to getting out prior to the Russians becoming "more" openly  involved.  But at this point we need to acknowledge that there really isn't any realistic avenue for the US backed troops to bring down Assad anymore. We also need to ask whether there is a true military solution to whatever problems exist in that area? Would would Colin Powell do?

It seems like there is an obvious incentive and obvious argument to be made that it's time to get out. The fact that this is the stance of the bad orange man seems to have driven everyone to change the aspects of the situation into something that would make the decision about our Syrian involvement "obvious" - when it is anything but.

The reality here is that this is a complicated situation. According to "all" sources, the negotiations for all of this have been ongoing for quite some time. One of the articles I linked from November, and was already recapping things that had been discussed and proposed. But the fact of the matter is that our own MSM is so focussed on things like the Russian investigation, and the Russian investigation, and the Russian investigation... that when something like this comes up, they are woefully unprepared to report on it.

So what we get is the same thing we always get. Orange man bad. Orange man did bad thing. Orange man dumb. We should remove orange man from office.  

Anything (even if it is just the introduction of left out facts) that does anything to undercut the bad orange man theories is taken as an emotional and intellectual threat to those suffering from TDS. This threat causes the sort of irrational reaction you saw here. 

I suspect we may see more of the same here.

55 comments:

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

You have lost your mind.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

So sad.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

I'm cooking for the family now and I really don't give a shit about your mental disorder.

Anonymous said...

Blogger Roger Amick said...
You have lost your mind.

December 24, 2018 at 9:39 AM
Blogger Roger Amick said...
So sad.

December 24, 2018 at 9:39 AM
Blogger Roger Amick said...
I'm cooking for the family now and I really don't give a shit about your mental disorder.


December 24, 2018 at 9:40 AM



three completely irrational and meaningless comments inside of two minutes.

good job, alky. i don't think i've ever seen you proves one of scott's points as precisely and as quickly.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Most Americans don't support the Orange Man.

18 percent of voters described themselves as only "somewhat" approving of the president in a recent poll, and that could be key to President Donald Trump's 2020 run.
An analysis of VoteCast, a nationwide poll of more than 115,000 midterm voters conducted for The Associated Press by NORC at the University of Chicago, highlighted fractures in Trump's core base.
About half of Trump's "somewhat" supporters said Trump has the right temperament to serve effectively as president or considered him honest and trustworthy.
BLOOMFIELD HILLS, Mich. (AP) - Jill Mott doesn't like the tweets. The hard line on the border is too hard. And when asked whether she will vote for President Donald Trump a second time, she lets out a long, deep sigh.

"That is the question," said Mott, a Republican from suburban Detroit.

In her moment of hesitancy, Mott is the portrait of a small, but significant slice of voters poised to wield considerable influence in the 2020 presidential campaign. They are the 18 percent of voters who described themselves as only "somewhat" approving of the president.

It's a group whose backing for Trump is most tenuous and whose reservations about his personality and his policies reveal warning signs for Republicans, perhaps even more so as he dug in on his demand for a U.S.-Mexico border wall, leading to a budget impasse with Congress that has shut down the government around Christmas.

An analysis of VoteCast, a nationwide poll of more than 115,000 midterm voters conducted for The Associated Press by NORC at the University of Chicago, highlights the fractures.


Compared with the 27 percent of voters who describe themselves as strong Trump supporters, the "somewhat" Trump voters are much more likely to disapprove of Trump on key issues such as immigration and health care, and to express divergent opinions on a need for a border wall, gun control and climate change. They are much more likely to question his trustworthiness and temperament.

They are less likely to call themselves conservative, less likely to be evangelical Christians and more likely to have voted for Democrats in 2018. They are more educated, somewhat more likely to be women, and more likely to live in suburbs.

"How he presents himself is the biggest issue," said Mott, a 52-year-old occupational therapist, who addressed her concerns this past week during a break from Christmas shopping outside the Gucci store at the Somerset Collection luxury mall. She also worries about the president's fiery approach to immigration.

"I understand what he's going for - trying to keep out criminal activity," Mott said, pointing to Trump's rhetoric about a caravan of Latin American migrants seeking asylum at the U.S. border. "However, I think he could do much better in showing concern for these people, offering short-term help."

As Trump barrels into his third year in office, and tightens his focus on his own re-election, he has paid scant attention to shoring up support from voters such as Mott.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Scott is surrendering to Putin as is the President.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

https://amp-businessinsider-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.businessinsider.com/poll-shows-trump-appears-to-be-losing-somewhat-supporters-with-antics-2018-12?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

C.H. Truth said...

Scott is surrendering to Putin as is the President.

Well Rog... you got me.

My whole goal all along is to somehow have Vladimir Putin become the President of the United States. How is it that you are the only person with the vision to see the conspiracy that everyone else missed? It's soooo obvious!!


Anonymous said...





Scott is surrendering to Putin as is the President.


this is the kind of stuff sane people post, right rog?



C.H. Truth said...

The funny thing Rat...

Is that Mad Dog Mattis is a bona-fide Dick Cheney styled neoconservative. He represents everything that the neoconservative movement stood for. He was fired by Obama for how uncomfortable his hawkish views made everyone in the Obama administration.

If I had predicted at any time that liberals would come to see "Mad Dog" as the new "voice of reason" - they would have laughed me out of the room!

But here we are! Roger Amick defending Mad Dog and neoconservatism! Not even realizing that is what he is doing.

Anonymous said...

An analysis of VoteCast, a nationwide poll of more than 115,000 midterm voters conducted for The Associated Press by NORC at the University of Chicago, highlighted fractures in Trump's core base.


alky,

you always choose the bestest polls...


AP VoteCast is a probability-based, state-by-state survey of registered voters that is combined with a large opt-in survey of Americans conducted online. The survey captures both the voices of those who choose to vote, and registered voters who decide not to cast ballots. Together with the AP Vote Count and AP’s race calls, AP VoteCast provides newsrooms with all the data they need to tell the comprehensive story of Election Day.

http://www.norc.org/Research/Projects/Pages/ap-votecast.aspx


imagine that. a polling firm intelligent enough to capture the sentiment of those who just can't bring themselves to wobble into the nearest polling station and cast a fucking ballot.

those are the unsung heros rog. thank you for making sure their voices are heard, even if they don't mean a fucking thing statistically.



Anonymous said...


C.H. Truth said...
The funny thing Rat...

Is that Mad Dog Mattis is a bona-fide Dick Cheney styled neoconservative.



oh, indeed.

mattis' favorite thing in the whole wide world is killing ragheads. he's on the record saying as much.

the alky is so blinded by trump hatred he doesn't have the capacity for rational thought anymore.

can you imagine the left's reaction if the right carried on like this for the whole 8 years of 0linsky?

they would've rounded us up into internment camps.




Anonymous said...




if there was even an asshole who really needed to keep their fucking mouth shut right about now...


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/23/opinion/trump-mattis-syria-afghanistan.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage



anonymous said...

if there was even an asshole who really needed to keep their fucking mouth shut right about now...

Yep, that is exactly what you should do!!!!!!

cowardly king obama said...

Most sane people hang stockings for Christmas.

The left must use shoes.

And waits non-stop for them to drop.

Merry Christmas

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

To those few Senators who think I don’t like or appreciate being allied with other countries, they are wrong, I DO. What I don’t like, however, is when many of these same countries take advantage of their friendship with the United States, both in Military Protection and Trade.......We are substantially subsidizing the Militaries of many VERY rich countries all over the world, while at the same time these countries take total advantage of the U.S., and our TAXPAYERS, on Trade. General Mattis did not see this as a problem. I DO, and it is being fixed!

Before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor the Republican party was isolationists. Trump is going to reverse this strategy because he just feels like it.

He doesn't care if the Russians reach out to be an equal or superior force in the world.

He's declared the Cold war is over.

He's aligning with authoritarian leaders and governments.

This is the most dangerous strategy since before the Second World war.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

This is a complete fabrication.

C.H. Truth said...

So Rog...

Because Trump believes that countries are taking advantage of the United States... you somehow equate that with him not caring if the Russians become superior to us?

and you wonder why people think you lost your marbles?

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

We have been paying more than the other NATO members forever. I don't think that surrounding to Putin is the best solution to the issue. The fact is that we've avoided a Third world war and essentially kept the European nations from attacking each other as they did in both wars.

I think that even if they are taking advantage of us, worth submitting to the Russians attempt to dismantle NATO is a terrible idea.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

and you wonder why people like wp and Indy think you lost your marbles?

Trumpism demands intellectual dishonesty and you have zero honesty any more

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Do you care if the Russians reach out to be an equal or superior force in the world because we pay more than our allies?

C.H. Truth said...

We have been paying more than the other NATO members forever.

There is literally no reason for us to be paying more, providing more troops, or anything else. Nato is an agreement among all nations involved and everyone should be honoring those agreements. It's not a coincidence that since Trump was elected that our Nato allies are bumping up their support and starting to honor those agreements.

That is a good thing. Why on earth would you believe it's a bad thing that our NATO allies are now contributing more?

As for your crazy paranoid delusions that everything is about Russia and Putin, I have news for you. There are plenty of things that happen in this world that have nothing to do with Russia.

The fact that we are not going to overthrow Assad with the Syrian rebel groups is not any sort of sign that we are giving into Russia. It's a sign that we are giving into reality.

What does it tell you Roger, when so many people would prefer to stay in alliance to Sunni radicals (aka Al Qaeda) in a lost cause to take over Syria... simply because they believe that the alternative is somehow giving into Russia?

It tells me that these are the people who have lost perspective on things.

Commonsense said...

"Surrounding to Putin"?

Surrounding Putin sounds like a good idea.

BTW the Warsaw pac is dead. Many of the Nations that were part of it now want to join NATO.

The question is, is NATO an obsolete relic of the Cold War or is it still viable today? And if it's still viable today who is the alliance against? Russia?

Treating Russia as the old Soviet Union is fossilized Cold War thinking. Reagan and HW Bush won the Cold War 30 years ago. It's time for some new thinking.

Anonymous said...



As for your crazy paranoid delusions that everything is about Russia and Putin, I have news for you. There are plenty of things that happen in this world that have nothing to do with Russia.


and as anyone who has been paying attention will tell you, china, not russia, is our major foe in the world of rising superpowers.

i continue to be amazed that so many people fell for the complete fabrication of pooty poot getting trump elected. just the thought of a handful of russkies spending a paltry hundred grand to beat hillary while she spent a billion is comical.





oh, and alky,

you seem to be hung up on the absence of wp and indy around here as if their scarcity validates the gibberish you try to peddle as wisdom.

your new year's resolution should be to strive to think for yourself, stop using the editorials of others as a c/p crutch, and to seek help for the simmering rage of TDS that has consumed you.

and don't worry about visitors in their absence. the fact that you're still here and have the nerve to be so regularly insulting of the host is revealing of the kind of "man" you are.




C.H. Truth said...

Roger...

WP simply lost his shit. Nothing more nothing less. His arguments simply no longer hold up, and he was embarrassed to continue to make illogical arguments. While you could make dumb argument after dumb argument and not know the difference, other people have something called pride.

WP has gone so far off the deep end that he keeps promising to come back once Mueller frog marches Trump out in handcuffs for election hacking collusion (with Putin)... all so he can say "I told you so".

Anonymous said...


Blogger Roger Amick said...

Do you care if the Russians reach out to be an equal or superior force in the world because we pay more than our allies?



i'm still trying to figure out just how mentally ill one must be to make that correlation.

alky,

you guys on the left need to make a decision -

since the end of WW II we have essentially picked up the military defense tab for europe, affording them the ability to have the lavish social democracies your new class of democrats like assholio fucktardio cortez have been advocating. since there's only so much $$$$$ to go around, and since shit like medicaid for all and free college costs money, you are at a decision point, alky.

we either keep being the biggest spender on NATO, or we bring some of that cash home to pay for all your free shit.

you know the deal... socialism is fucking awesome right up until you run out of everyone else's $$$. that's where we are, so pick one. you can't have both.



C.H. Truth said...

Rat...

The funny thing is that Indy is still around from time to time. In fact, just yesterday Indy disagreed with Roger:

Roger Amick said...
The Republicans will suffer the worst defeat since the election a Franklin Delano Roosevelt in 2020.

I don't know yet who will get the nomination. But even Crooked Hillary Clinton could win in a landslide.

Lol You're gonna laugh at me.

Not this time.

December 23, 2018 at 2:10 PM
Indy Voter said...
Don't be so sure. The Democrats could nominate someone so noxious that enough anti-Trump voters vote for a third party or even don't vote to return Trump again.

See whether Trump is challenged in the primaries first. If that happens, then there's a good chance Trump will be toast.

C.H. Truth said...

Roger has gone the way of Paul Krugman back in the Bush days:

This spring there will be a recession - opps, guess not
This summer there will be a recession - opps, guess not
This fall there will be a recession - opps, guess not
This winter there will be recession - opps, guess not
This spring there will be a recession - opps, guess not
This summer there will be a recession - opps, guess not
This fall there will be a recession - opps, guess not
This winter there will be recession - opps, guess not
This spring there will be a recession - opps, guess not
This summer there will be a recession - opps, guess not

This fall there will be a recession -

SEE I TOLD YOU SO!!

Anonymous said...

Roger your cheering for economic down turn is sick.

Anonymous said...

Omg , is he joking or just a stupid liberal?

"Do you care if the Russians reach out to be an equal or superior force in the world ."

Russia a "supeior force" to the US.
Lol

Anonymous said...




The funny thing is that Indy is still around from time to time. In fact, just yesterday Indy disagreed with Roger:


poor rog. even when one of his hero's shows up to disagree with him he misses it and/or can't remember.


Commonsense said...

See whether Trump is challenged in the primaries first.

One state's Republican Party (South Caroline) is even talking about canceling it's primary should Trump runs for re-election. The reason being (We've already got our guy).

The usual challengers named are Corker, Flake, and Kasich. Add to that the pathetic Evan McMullian (talk about the very stereotype of a deep state functinary, he's Vladimir Putin without his charm) and you really have a barely credible field. I doulbt they could raise a million dollars between the four of them.

2 years is a long time and Trump may well decide not to run again. But as it sits now, there's no one that can beat him. Hell there's no one who can serious split the party and cause him to lose the general election.

C.H. Truth said...

Rat -

Roger's been talking about Indy as if he knows him and talks to him. For some people (like Bill/Indy) the sort of toxic environment isn't his deal. Which is why you see him come around from time to time and make humorous flippant one line remarks rather than engage in heavy debate.

We all watched the utter meltdown of WP. Sad situation, as WP used to be as logical as they come. He then became a tin foil hat wearing paranoid Trump hater who actually believes that Mueller is secretly holding back all of the evidence of election hacking collusion.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Answer the question.

Do you care if the Russians reach out to be an equal or superior force in the world because we pay more than our allies?

Commonsense said...

Russia is a country with an inferior military force and no significant ally.

What exactly are you worried about?

Commonsense said...

Another question for Roger.

Are you for all out war in Syria against Assad and the Russians? When we win, do we just take over the country?

anonymous said...


Blogger Commonsense said...
Russia is a country with an inferior military f

How are they inferior....they can wipe the US off the face of the earth in 15 minutes with their inferior forces and they sure can hack people like you to believe trump is a god.....LOL

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

President Donald Trump spent much of his Christmas Eve attacking his opponents and critics on Twitter, lashing out at everyone from Republican Sen. Bob Corker to the Federal Reserve.
Trump also attacked Democrats over the border wall issue and went after James Mattis just days after he resigned as secretary of defense.
The president tweeted, "I am all alone (poor me) in the White House waiting for the Democrats to come back and make a deal on desperately needed Border Security."

C.H. Truth said...

Do you care if the Russians reach out to be an equal or superior force in the world because we pay more than our allies?

Roger...

You do realize that this particular group of words in the order you put them does not make up any sort of coherent sentence from any grammatical standard... much less a question that anyone can answer.

But I can answer the following:

I don't care if Russia "reaches out"
Russia's overall GDP is approximately 6% of ours
Russia's military spending is approximately 10% of ours

So no, Roger. Russia is not going to become an equal or a superior force to the United States. Not in our lifetime.


The only place Russia holds this sort of substance in the world is in the mind of American liberals, who are convinced that Russia is a superpower, and Putin is a god. That this meager country with a sliver of our material wealth and military standing is capable of pretty much anything (including confusing liberals into voting or the wrong people).

anonymous said...

ld Trump spent much of his Christmas Eve attacking his opponents and critic

And the right feels it is justified because trump says so.....So much for the rule of law....and it is going to get worse as he is trapped like the rat he is...!!!! Swings wildly and makes shit up just like our esteemed host and his legion of minions.....LOL

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

He's losing control of his mind.

I am all alone (poor me) in the White House waiting for the Democrats to come back and make a deal on desperately needed Border Security. At some point the Democrats not wanting to make a deal will cost our Country more money than the Border Wall we are all talking about. Crazy!

Commonsense said...

ow are they inferior....they can wipe the US off the face of the earth in 15 minutes

And Russia can be wipe out in 15 min by the US so it's a non-sequiter.

US is 30 years ahead of Russia in avionics and other similar technology. Our forces are better trained, better equipped and better supported with a superior logistic chain that can support US troops anywhere in the world.

As opposed to Russia who can barely project their power beyond their borders.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The sentence was too complicated for your feeble mind.

You don't care if the Russians become the enemy nation in the middle East.

You're an isolationist.

Trump is trying to reverse the alliance with the European democracies. If we leave NATO the Russians could invade Poland and y would sit back and watch it on Fax and cheer for Trump!

anonymous said...

And Russia can be wipe out in 15 min by the US so it's a non-sequitur.

Sure asshole....whatever you say....BTW....you have no idea what they have in avionics let alone equipment or trained....you spew the BS from god knows where and project power? They can be in the US in 15 minutes with their crappy equipment....yer really not very bright cramps . Go be putins buddy and trust his word.....LOLOLOL

anonymous said...

BTW....do you understand what a non sequitur means? It sure appears to me you don't....LOLOLOL

Commonsense said...

..you have no idea what they have in avionics let alone equipment or trained...

Yes, as a matter of fact I do. So can anybody who can read Jane's Defense.

Commonsense said...

The sentence was too complicated for your feeble mind.

Not having an advance degree in psychology.

Commonsense said...

Notice Roger doesn't answer any straight forward questions.

C.H. Truth said...

You don't care if the Russians become the enemy nation in the middle East.

The enemy of who, Roger?

Just because you believe that Putin and Russia outsmarted Obama/DNC/Clinton and the American media with their $100K in twitter/facebook advertising to win Trump an election... doesn't make them our geo-political equal.

btw...

What is our interest in Syria anyways Rog?

Here is a poll from back in 2013 (when we still thought there was a chance to overthrow Assad).

Sixty-two percent of the public say the United States has no responsibility to do something about the fighting in Syria between government forces and antigovernment groups, while just one-quarter disagree.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/01/world/american-public-opposes-action-in-syria-and-north-korea.html

This was five year ago. What are we "still" doing there five years later, when the mission we suggested was our reasoning for engaging is no longer considered a viability?

Why do liberals (who basically oppose 90% of all wars and 100% of wars in the middle east) suddenly feel the need to continue to put troops in danger when not a one of them can actually provide a reasonable long term reason for us to be there.

I can answer it.

1) Donald Trump
2) Vladimir Putin

Because Trump wants to do it. The left opposes.

Because they have convinced themselves that Putin is a valid reason for Americans to continue to be engaged in a hostile military mission in a country where we literally have no real interest (other than to oppose Putin).

anonymous said...

So can anybody who can read Jane's Defense.

You subscribe??? I doubt it, it is very expensive....LOLOL

Commonsense said...

Yeah maybe to a double-wide inhabitant like you.

Anonymous said...

"nsenseDecember 24, 2018 at 4:35 PM

Notice Roger doesn't answer any straight "

He does not have the intellectual fire power, more like a kiddo's cap gun.

Anonymous said...

Roger, Jane and dOpie are the oldest people here and all three are wards of the Federal Government for their food, shelter and medical insurance .

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Trump said the Fed is the "only thing wrong with the economy."

The ten years growth of the economy ended in October. The total chaos of this administration has been troubling investors around the world. Our allies are deeply concerned about this President.

He has alienated the country to our north is wondering what the hell is going on with the President?

We are already seeing discomfort among the Republicans in the congess. When the Democrats take back control of the house of Representatives on January 3rd, the increasingly isolated President is going to face subpoenas from his businesses. He didn't separate himself from his businesses. His shandy business affairs are going to undergo public scrutiny.

He will get increasingly angry and the tweets are going to get even worse. And the Muller investigation seems to be closing in on the President.

If the economy continues on its downward spiral will likely trigger fellow Republicans will distance themselves from him.

We may actually see impeachment hearings. There are many people who are saying that he will not compete his term in office.

Merry Christmas to one and all except for rrb and kput'z.

Drown themselves in cheap beer

Anonymous said...



The sentence was too complicated for your feeble mind.

it made no fucking sense, alky. as in none.

You don't care if the Russians become the enemy nation in the middle East.

what does this even mean, alky?

russia is already allied with iran. your dear leader was kind enough to not only allow the iranians to pursue nuclear weapons, he gifted them $50 BILLION. cash that was probably not even unwrapped before it was given to russia to purchase weapons and military technology.

the bad actors in the ME they're already aligned with russia and against us. we can stay in syria til jesus comes back and that won't change a wit.

0linsky took care of that. in case you didn't notice, putin was doing donuts on the white house lawn at least through all of skeets second term. and skeets, being the feckless asshole that he was, not only allowed it, he encouraged it.

“This is my last election," Obama said. "After my election I have more flexibility.”

“I understand," Medvedev said. "I will transmit this information to Vladimir."

nice, eh?

you want to talk about collusion? there's a heaping helping of collusion for you alky.

actual fucking collusion. 0linsky built that.

so why don't you and every other TDS-soaked fuckstick on the left take your irrational and unfounded fears about trump and putin and shove them up your ass.