Sunday, November 10, 2019

Explain this to me like I am a six year old...

By now, every sane American has been informed that contrary to popular belief the concept of "quid pro quo" is not an illegal action in and of itself. However, Democrats (and their liberal cronies in the lame stream media) argue that what Trump did with the Ukrainians and their military aid was in fact corrupt and impeachable because he was attempting to:

Dig up dirt on his opponent

But if you drill into this allegation "logically" it requires Democrats to prove certain things, considering they are the accusers and therefor own the burden of proof. One of the main things that they need to prove (in order to show corrupt intent) is to prove that any requested investigation would be baseless and unnecessary.

Keep in mind that Democrats have argued now for over three years that investigations that harm the President politically do not spring from this same sort of "corrupt intent" because the investigations themselves are warranted and questions need to be answered. In spite of zero evidence EVER uncovered that Trump and campaign were somehow Russian agents, many Democrats are still demanding that we continue to go down that path.

So logically, in incumbent on Democrats to "prove" (not just allege) that investigations into Ukraine's involvement of the 2016 election and investigations into Burisma and Hunter Biden are actually baseless. Just making the statement is not good enough, and provides zero proof that Trump was calling for baseless and unwarranted investigations.

They have to "prove" the allegations, not just make them. That is the fundamental reality of our criminal justice system.

So it is literally the Democrat's burden to prove (not just allege) that investigations in 2016 election activities and Burisma holdings are unwarranted and baseless. They will have to show this beyond all doubt. Yet, Schiff and the Democrats are on record as saying any questions about the 2016 election, Burisma holdings, or Hunter Biden are off limits? Yet these are the investigations that they need to PROVE  are unwarranted?  It's like accusing someone of murder, and claiming that you don't actually have to prove that someone was killed.

To repeat: they literally cannot prove corrupt intent (and justify impeachment) without PROVING that the investigations are unwarranted. That is their burden. But even if they laid that burden on the President (make him prove that they are warranted), they are literally refusing to allow him to wage any sort of defense to do so?

Explain to me like I am a six year old how you can prove your case, if you refuse to even acknowledge, much less allow any witnesses or discussions of the main issue that you allege?

69 comments:

Myballs said...

For some reason, Roger seems to think that the phrase do me a favor is illegal or something. He keeps reposting it over and over, as if it means anything

Commonsense said...

But it's the bad orange man.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Bribery is a high crime or misdemeanor.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Quid pro quo matters because the President attempted bribe the President of Ukraine into investigation his opposition in the next election.

Using the quid pro argument is an attempt to confuse the public.

You are using his talking points to make an argument that is not supported by the truth.

Anonymous said...

Adam Schif has cancelled witnesses called by Republicans for the so called "open hearing".

Even Roger believes this is wrong.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Bonus Quote of Day
November 10, 2019 at 12:57 pm EST

“You make your mind up about the phone call. I made my mind up. There’s nothing there.”
— Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), in KCCI interview, arguing President Trump did nothing wrong in an attempt to force Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden.

HEY, ALL YOU IDIOTS. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE PHONE CALL.

IT'S ABOUT THE PHONE CALL PLUS SO MUCH MORE.

IT'S ABOUT ALL THE MOUNTING AND MOUNTING AND MOUNTING EVIDENCE CORROBORATING THAT THE PHONE CALL WAS JUST THE TIP OF A GIGANTIC ICEBERG OF ATTEMPTED UNCONSTITUTIONAL BEHAVIOR, OF ATTEMPTED BRIBERY AND EXTORTION OF AN ALLY BY A PRESIDENT AFRAID OF BEING POLITICALLY DEFEATED IN THE NEXT ELECTION.

AND NOW HE CONTINUES LYING ABOUT IT AND SEEKING TO OBSTRUCT JUSTICE BY ATTEMPTING TO THWART A LEGITIMATE CONSTITUTIONALLY MANDATED INVESTIGATION INTO HIS ACTIONS.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Was that enough like talking to a six year old kid, Ch?

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Quid Pro quo is an attempted assault on the Constitution.

Article Two, Section Four of the United States Constitution provides that: "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High crimes and Misdemeanors."

This isn't about the bad orange man.

It is not a political issue, it is about the expansion of executive authority.

When one party wins an election, they can pass legislation that supports their particularly policies. As long as they are Constitutional as determined by the Courts.

If President Pocahontas issues an executive order declaring that all Americans have Medicare and remove all private insurance coverages, you would justifiably outraged. So would I!

The founding fathers feared the executive branch and they gave the Congress the right to check the President.

The house is fulfilling their role in the Constitution.

Anonymous said...

Jane goes all bat Shit Cray cray.

Ask Alky for help, he knows a good Dr., seeing he is suicidal and Clinically Depressed .

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Haley Says Top Aides Wanted Her to Undermine Trump
November 10, 2019 at 12:12 pm EST

“Two of President Trump’s senior advisers undermined and ignored him in what they claimed was an effort to ‘save the country,’ former United Nations ambassador Nikki Haley claims in a new memoir,” the Washington Post reports.

“Former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and former White House Chief of Staff John Kelly sought to recruit her to work around and subvert Trump, but she refused, Haley writes in a new book, With All Due Respect, which also describes Tillerson as ‘exhausting’ and imperious and Kelly as suspicious of her access to Trump.”

Writes Haley: “Kelly and Tillerson confided in me that when they resisted the president, they weren’t being insubordinate, they were trying to save the country. It was their decisions, not the president’s, that were in the best interests of America, they said. The president didn’t know what he was doing,”
_____________

Apparently the "right" people didn't get to him soon enough or effectively enough to let him know that according to the Constitution he simply could NOT use the withholding of Congressionally-approved funds for military aid to an ally in an attempt to extort actions that might prove favorable to him politically.

Myballs said...

So Roger says Trump is bribing someone and James says it's not about the phone call.

I don't even have to make fun of them. They're doing it to themselves. Lol.

Anonymous said...

The one vote actually held showed Bi-Partisan Support, Against.

Anonymous said...

Jane goes all bat Shit Cray cray.

In simple language, Kansas DumbDumb, tell us exactly what is "cray cray" about what James said.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

There is a picture that our formerly known host won't post.

https://www.nbatitlechase.com/2019/11/10/photo-alabama-students-at-lsu-bama-game-spellout-impeach-for-donald-trump/

Anonymous said...

Attempted bribery, attempted extortion.

And James is right; it's not only about the phone call.

Anonymous said...

Exactly

"MyballsNovember 10, 2019 at 12:44 PM

So Roger says Trump is bribing someone and James says it's not about the phone call.

I don't even have to make fun of them. They're doing it to themselves. Lol"

I quote them all the time to my ammusement.

Anonymous said...

In simple language, Kansas DumbDumb, tell us exactly what is "cray cray" about what James said.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

"The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High crimes and Misdemeanors."

James post is in complete support of my previous comments.

Apparently the "right" people didn't get to him soon enough or effectively enough to let him know that according to the Constitution he simply could NOT use the withholding of Congressionally-approved funds for military aid to an ally in an attempt to extort actions that might prove favorable to him politically.


To extort is to commit bribery.


C.H. Truth said...

Was that enough like talking to a six year old kid, Ch?

No James...

Because you are not answering the question.

You are just repeating your flawed logic with capital letters.


Answer the question... if you are smart enough to understand it.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

James post is in complete support of my previous comments.

Apparently the "right" people didn't get to him soon enough or effectively enough to let him know that according to the Constitution he simply could NOT use the withholding of Congressionally-approved funds for military aid to an ally in an attempt to extort actions that might prove favorable to him politically.


To extort is to commit bribery.

Myballs said...

Roger wants a pic of 5 people Instead of the 100k chanting USA. How sad that is.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Your inability is to understand that.

To extort is to commit bribery.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Touchdown Tennessee!

My friend Tony Corrente is the referee at the game today in Tennessee!

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Thecoldheartedtruth used to show both sides of some opinions.

But he has been infected with Trumpism stage four brain cancer!

C.H. Truth said...

the Constitution he simply could NOT use the withholding of Congressionally-approved funds for military aid to an ally in an attempt to extort actions that might prove favorable to him politically.


If you really believed that Roger...

You wouldn't continue to have to repeat it over and over.



We're not going to give you the billion dollars

He said you have no authority

I'm tell you, your not getting the billions dollars

I'm leaving in 6 hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, your not getting the billion dollars

Well son of a gun, the prosecutor got fired!

Caliphate4vr said...

According to Ms. Toensing the upcoming IG report is going to be “very bad for people in the Obama administration.” Toensing went on to say, according to her sources, “it’s going to be worse than you can imagine.”

Mr. diGenova went on to say: “it’s going to be devastating” … “it’s going to ruin careers” etc. Mr diGenova has a great deal of confidence in AG Barr, Horowitz and Durham.


https://youtu.be/NycT4Q6UtQo

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Scott, you have been saying that he did nothing wrong by saying that quid pro isn't a crime.

I absolutely believe this because his own appointees have been attempting to show how big a danger to the Constitution and the country.

Attempting to go back in time to the Obama administration with your unproven allegations against President Obama is a political pile of bullshit.


Barr is not going to speak out as Trump has repeatedly requested.

Bolton is not going away either, because when a neo con testifies and says that the President has been irresponsible and perhaps illogically, the wall will crack up.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Distraction is not going to end the investigation into the current President.


Commonsense said...


Blogger Roger Amick said...
Quid pro quo matters because the President attempted bribe the President of Ukraine into investigation his opposition in the next election.


Well if that's your definition Roger, then Joe Biden did indeed bribed the president of Ukraine into stopping the investigation into his son's company.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Your sources are very interesting

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Distraction isn't going to work.

Myballs said...

Then obama bribed Iran with $1.5B.

C.H. Truth said...

Roger...

If there is a crime... then the actions (not the person) is what is important.

I claim you are just out to get Trump come hell or high water. You deny it.

Yet, when YOUR DEFINITION of a crime is committed by someone other than Trump, you call it a distraction.

Proof positive that I am right and you are wrong about your motives.

C.H. Truth said...


We're not going to give you the billion dollars

He said you have no authority

I'm tell you, your not getting the billions dollars

I'm leaving in 6 hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, your not getting the billion dollars

Well son of a gun, the prosecutor got fired!


Do you really believe that quid pro quo is a crime?

Or are you just obsessed with Trump?

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Ch, there is a big difference between Trump's request and Biden's request.

Biden's request that a corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor be fired had international support because the corruption was obvious and has been admitted by Ukrainians themselves.

Trump's request that Biden be investigated was done outside usual governmental channels in a way that even John Bolton could not countenance --so much so that he and others tried to oppose handling the matter in that way, including an attempt to hide the phone call from the public. Also, Ukrainian official after Ukrainian official have said there was no evidence of corruption or wrongdoing by either Biden.

Simple enough for your six year old mind?

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Biden is not in office.


Trump is.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Biden's requested that a corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor be fired.

The investigation would have been conducted by a corrupt prosecutor.

The withholding was justified, and it was not an attempt to influence the next election.

That's more than your limited intelligence can comprehend.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

James, Scott's mind has been infected since Trump won the election against Crooked Hillary.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Amen.

Anonymous said...

And never will be.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

My amen was meant for your 1:40, but it fits your 1:41 as well.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Roger, there are a lot of Republicans in government today who are genuinely worried about how they are ultimately going to look in the history books.

How could you let him come to power? later Germans asked their leaders concerning Hitler.

How could you let him stay in power? future Americans will be asking Republican leaders concerning Trump.

C.H. Truth said...

Ch, there is a big difference between Trump's request and Biden's request.

Well I might suggest that whether or not Ukraine fired one of their own prosecutors had very little to do with our American interests...


But I do like the fact that you are NOW COMPLETELY AGREEING WITH MY BASIC PRINCIPLE!

We BOTH AGREE that asking for something in return for AID IS PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE if the request is in American interests...


So then you must also agree that you have to PROVE that Trump's interest in these investigations is not warranted or does not provide an American interest!

If there is any legitimate reason to question Ukraine's involvement election or any reason to question Hunter Biden's involvement...

Then what Trump did is no different than what you claim Biden did. Used quid pro quo to enhance American interests!



Btw... while Schiff and Pelosi are not investigating, lots of reporters are. By the time this is done, there will be more than enough evidence of Burisma/Hunter Biden corruption to justify an investigation.

Anonymous said...

Jane, Alky are you two open to changing your minds and support the US President .

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
C.H. Truth said...

James:

The American People stand with the President and believe the investigation is within our best American interests!



Should DOJ investigate Joe Biden and his son regarding Ukraine and China?

Yes 57%
No 37%

IBD/TIPP 9/26-10/3https://www.investors.com/politics/americans-back-trump-impeachment-ukraine-scandal-biden-probe/ …




Better that a President have AMERICAN support for his actions than "international support" to fire some prosecutor that Americans didn't care about.


A billion dollars James...

That's how much Biden wanted to get this prosecutor fired. That's an awful lot of Quid Pro Quo!!!! United States doesn't care about a corrupt prosecutor from Ukraine enough to justify $1 billion demand/extortion/bribe?

Commonsense said...

Ch, there is a big difference between Trump's request and Biden's request.

Yes, they actually complied with Biden's threat. The really was a quid pro quo and it benefited Biden and his family.

C.H. Truth said...

they have now uncovered letters from prominent people pushing back on "corruption" allegations of Burisma, because they had "high profile" people on the board (and Hunter Biden was specifically mentioned).

Someone, somewhere was pressuring to put an end to these investigation and it WAS because of who sat on the board...

This thing WILL blow up. Just a matter of time. If Biden gets the nomination it will be his end. May be the first Presidential Candidate to step back after getting the nomination!

Commonsense said...

Biden's request that a corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor be fired had international support because the corruption was obvious

So obvious nobody ever defined what that corruption was.

Meanwhile Burisma is up to it's neck in corruption and it's defined, bribery, kick backs, extortion in exchange for favorable licenses to operate.

It was so rampant it would be a miracle for Hunter Biden to not know what was going on. It's obvious they hired Hunter to do one job. Get the US and Ukraine governments off their backs and papa Joe came through.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Again for your dementia, what may have happened in the past, is irrelevant to the current impeachment hearings on the allegations of bribery, a crime, against President Trump.

C.H. Truth said...

Again for your dementia, what may have happened in the past, is irrelevant to current impeachment hearings on the allegations of bribery, a crime, against President Trump.

Of course it is, Roger.

But the fact that you only see this as a "TRUMP" thing proves my point!

If you actually cared about what you consider a "crime" then you would be equally upset regardless of who committed it. But you ONLY care about what Trump did and deem everything else as a distraction.

Republicans will not agree with you.
We don't punish people of one political Party
When we let the other Party get away with it!

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Ukrainian official have said there was no evidence of corruption or wrongdoing by either Biden after an investigation by the non corrupt investigator.

Simple enough for your three year old demented mind?

Anonymous said...

So then you must also agree that you have to PROVE that Trump's interest in these investigations is not warranted or does not provide an American interest!

If there is any legitimate reason to question Ukraine's involvement election or any reason to question Hunter Biden's involvement...

Then what Trump did is no different than what you claim Biden did. Used quid pro quo to enhance American interests!



and that's not the half of it.

one of the more ironic aspects of this impeachment farce is the existence of a treaty signed by bill clinton in 1999 that OBLIGATES the US and Ukraine to cooperate with each other if criminal activity is suspected. by not pursuing the investigation of Ukrainian corrupt involvement in our 2016 election, or any other criminal activity that might surface, trump is actually abdicating his duties as president which actually could be considered a legitimate impeachable offense.



TREATY WITH UKRAINE ON MUTUAL LEGAL ASSISTANCE IN CRIMINAL MATTERS

__________

MESSAGE

from

THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

transmitting

TREATY BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND UKRAINE ON MUTUAL LEGAL ASSISTANCE IN CRIMINAL MATTERS WITH ANNEX, SIGNED AT KIEV ON JULY 22, 1998, AND WITH AN EXCHANGE OF NOTES SIGNED ON SEPTEMBER 30, 1999, WHICH PROVIDES FOR ITS PROVISIONAL APPLICATION




November 10, 1999.--Treaty was read the first time, and together with
the accompanying papers, referred to the Committee on Foreign Relations
and ordered to be printed for the use of the Senate.


https://www.congress.gov/treaty-document/106th-congress/16/document-text


Anonymous said...

Blogger Roger Amick said...

Ukrainian official have said there was no evidence of corruption or wrongdoing by either Biden after an investigation by the non corrupt investigator.



so a solitary ukrainian official is the final arbiter of what constitutes corruption or wrongdoing?

just like that.

boy alky, you really are an imbecile.

C.H. Truth said...

Well Rog...

The former Prosecutor General testified "UNDER OATH" in an international court that he was pressured to drop Burisma investigations, and was told he was fired because of Biden.

57% of Americans want it investigated!

57% of Americans disagree with you!!!


Simple enough for your wrinkly old brain to comprehend?

Anonymous said...

Blogger Roger Amick said...

Again for your dementia


dementia?

says the clown who lost everything to TDS and now resides under lockdown in a fucking nursing home.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The problem is in your demented mind, I don't want to let the other Party get away with it, now of in the future.

Many conservatives people have a problem with the expansion of executive power.

Former members of the George W Bush administration of campaign officials have a conscience, and fear the expansion of executive power.

The abuse of power by Trump is the preeminent reason to indict and convict the President.

C.H. Truth said...

Hey Rog...

You know how you settle it? You have many Ukrainians who believe Burisma was corrupt. You have a former Prosecutor claiming under oath that he was fired for investigating them. You have US involvement in getting the Prosecutor fired...

and they did so by what you describe by your own words as extortion and bribery.

57% of Americans to look into it...


I think the solution would be...

wait for it...


To investigate to see what happened!!!

C.H. Truth said...

Many conservatives people have a problem with the expansion of executive power.

The executive branch and the President is constitutionally responsible for much of our foreign policy. That is why we have an entire State Department that answers to the President.

But I get that this is a complicated issue.

One that goes over your head, quite obviously.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Tony Corrente is doing a great job today in the Kansas Chiefs game!

Anonymous said...

Former members of the George W Bush administration of campaign officials have a conscience, and fear the expansion of executive power.

The abuse of power by Trump is the preeminent reason to indict and convict the President.



yet there was no greater expansion and abuse of executive power than there was under "captain pen and phone" 0linsky.

the USSC unanimously overturned ol' skeets no less than a dozen times, and the assclowns of the CBC couldn't abdicate their congressional authority to him fast enough.

and if "abuse of power" is the standard that we must live by and impeach, then every single president in the history of our nation qualifies for a post facto impeachment.

this is why it's absolutely impossible to take you seriously alky.

you're a hypocrite, a liar, and a fool.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Ukraine Aid Was Released after Federal Lawyers Said Trump Freeze Was Illegal

It wasn’t Donald Trump who released the promised military aid to Ukraine, but the State Department, after lawyers determined that the White House freeze on the funds was illegal, several sources have told Bloomberg.

Trump has claimed he released the aid on September 11. But five sources told Bloomberg that $141 million of the money was actually authorized to be released several days earlier after lawyers determined that the White House Office of Management and Budget and, therefore, the president, had no legal standing to block the funds. The decision was outlined in a classified memo to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, according to Bloomberg.

The information severely undercuts Trump’s insistence that there was no quid pro quo for military aid when he pressed Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in a July phone call to launch an investigation into former Vice President Joe Biden and his son. Trump has pointed to the fact that he released the aid before a probe was begun. But Bloomberg now reports that Trump was no longer in control of disbursement when the money was released.

Officials have testified before House lawmakers that the aid — amounting to a total of some $400 million — was linked to Zelensky bowing to Trump’s demands. The New York Times has reported that Zelensky had ALREADY SCHEDULED an interview on CNN in September to announce the launch of the investigation — even though he was opposed to it — IN ORDER TO OBTAIN the much needed funding. When the money was released, Zelensky quickly dropped the CNN appearance and did not begin a probe, according to the Times.

The OMB — headed by Mick Mulvaney, who is also the acting White House chief of staff — continues to argue that distribution of the funds, which had been approved by Congress, was up to the agency. “At no point was this pause inappropriate, let alone illegal,” OMB spokeswoman Rachel Semmel told Bloomberg Saturday.

Officials supporting Ukraine feared that if the money was not disbursed by September 30, the end of the fiscal year, it would likely no longer be available.

Trump has claimed he was the one who decided to release the money after a plea from Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio).

Acting U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor testified that it was THE LEGAL OFFICES at both the State and Defense departments that decided they were “going to move forward with this assistance — OMB notwithstanding.”

“I don’t know if they’ve ever done that before,” Taylor said. “This was a big decision for them.”

Caliphate4vr said...

says the clown who lost everything to TDS and now resides under lockdown in a fucking nursing home.

I bet they have a memory unit and the doors are Locked down like a Supermax federal pen.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Trump Tweets 82 Times In One Day
November 10, 2019 at 2:55 pm EST

President Trump tweeted or retweeted 82 times on Saturday while flying to and from a collegiate football game in Alabama, Axios reports.

“Many of the president’s tweets were fighting back against the House’s impeachment inquiry into allegations that he withheld congressionally approved military aid to pressure Ukraine to investigate his political opponents. The House will hold its first public impeachment hearings this week.”

KEEP THE WHITE HOUSE STRAIGHT JACKET EVER READY

Commonsense said...

James, what lawyers? They never identify who those lawyers were. Absence of details like that makes your story suspicious.

C.H. Truth said...

Gotta love the way, every time James get his ass handed to him and looks like a fool, he changes the subject with cut and pastes.

I suppose his own lack of abilities gets him frustrated enough that he falls back on other people's opinions (that nobody reads!).

C.H. Truth said...

Acting U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor testified that it was THE LEGAL OFFICES at both the State and Defense departments

Well both offices are under the umbrella of the President.

They have no authority to act on their own against the will of the White House!

Commonsense said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Commonsense said...

Just to be consistent if Trump's withholding of congressional approved military assistants was ILLEGAL, then Obama's withholding of congressionally approved military assistance is also ILLEGAL.

Or is the law different because Orange man bad.