Thursday, November 21, 2019

What did Sondland "really" provide for Democrats?

For the next 24 hours or so we will watch both sides treat today's testimony as a total win, just as they have every other day of the testimony. The left will  demand that yesterday was full of "bombshells" while the right will suggest that like every other witness, Sondland was unable to provide any smoking gun evidence of the allegations being made by the Democrats.

As "I" (as well as many others) have argued, even if the Democrats could prove 100% of what they claim (that Trump used congressional aid to investigate his political opponents), it still wouldn't rise to the level of misconduct that will convince Republicans to vote to remove their duly elected President. Especially considering that Ukraine got their aid without announcing any investigations into Hunter or Joe Biden, rendering it impossible to actually prove any sort of deal actually ever existed. The best that Democrats could do is argue that Trump "meant" to bribe Zelensky, but that the quid pro quo arrangement never took place in spite of Trump's intention. But even that would be unlikely to sway many (if any) Republicans.

If they were temporarily swayed, they would just need to be reminded of this:



So what happened today to get the Democrats and their faithful followers up in arms? Well it was the opening statement that Gordon Sondland suggested that there was quid pro quo, that everyone knew about it, and that it was right out in the open. The problem is that the quid pro quo that Sondland was referencing had nothing to do with the aid, and it had nothing to do with Hunter or Joe Biden. To some degree it was a messy opening statement that was likely "meant" to provide Sondland with some good will from the Democrats (that never actually came).

Once that statement had been digested and the questioning began, it became clear that Sondland was referring to Trump wanting some sort of anti-corruption statement (regarding investigations) before Trump would invite Zelensky for a White House visit. Even this was something that Sondland had presumed, rather than actually hearing it from the President. But the idea that there needed to be some gesture by the new Ukrainian President was generally accepted by all Parties involved, and as Sondland pointed out... nobody thought there was anything wrong with this (because there really isn't).

What Sondland could not provide was any sort of evidence that the "aid" was being held up because of any investigations. Once again Sondland presumed that to be the case, but even at the time he never was given any impression (by anyone) that the aid being held up has anything to do with the Bidens or anything political in nature. In other words, he was not privy to any information that suggested that there was quid pro quo as it pertained to the aid (although he presumed as much). But even his presumption did not include the President specifically demanding investigations into the Bidens, much less having some corrupt intent.

So to the degree that the Democrats are claiming victory is an admission that they just may not ever be able to prove the corrupt idea of Trump using foreign aid to get a foreign power to investigate a political rival. What we have instead is a classic example of the bait and switch. Reel them in with a serious allegation and try to hook them with whatever lesser thing they can sort of prove and try to pretend that it's a difference without a distinction.

117 comments:

anonymous said...


Yep.....those R's keep shifting the trump defense to whatever sounds good.....sad you all think it is winning the hearts of the country!!!! BWAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Nunes’s already phantasmagorical case was further undermined on Tuesday, when Republicans called Kurt Volker, Trump’s former special envoy for Ukraine, to testify. Volker called allegations that, as vice president, Joe Biden pressured Ukraine for personal reasons “self-serving and not credible” and accused Giuliani of spreading a “conspiracy theory.”

ImageDevin Nunes, Republican of California, at the hearing on Tuesday.
Devin Nunes, Republican of California, at the hearing on Tuesday.Credit...Damon Winter/The New York Times
Most other defenses of Trump were demolished by Sondland’s explosive testimony on Wednesday. In recent days, there have been signs that Sondland was being set up as a fall guy in the Ukraine scandal. Testifying Tuesday, another Republican witness, Tim Morrison, until recently the top Russia expert on the National Security Council, referred to the “Gordon problem,” suggesting he was an oft-ignored nuisance. But Sondland seems to have decided that he would not go easily under the proverbial bus.

In his opening statement, Sondland described how Giuliani wanted the Ukrainians to investigate an imagined Ukrainian role in hacking the Democratic National Committee in 2016, and Burisma, the Ukrainian energy company on whose board Biden’s son served. “Mr. Giuliani’s requests were a quid pro quo for arranging a White House visit for President Zelensky,” he said. “Mr. Giuliani demanded that Ukraine make a public statement announcing investigations of the 2016 election/D.N.C. server and Burisma. Mr. Giuliani was expressing the desires of the president of the United States, and we knew that these investigations were important to the president.” With that, Sondland confirmed the heart of the Democrats’ case for impeachment.

Anonymous said...



With that, Sondland confirmed the heart of the Democrats’ case for impeachment.

excellent.

it looks like we're done here, so let's put this up for a full house vote.

let's get every house dem on the record, and then it's on to the senate.

whee!!!


Myballs said...

I know a couple lib democrats. They think Schiff is doing great. We are living in two realities. I predict Trump will be impeached. Dems badly want that scarlet letter put,on him. But Trump will be re-elected anyway. Peace and prosperity will carry the day for most voters.

anonymous said...


Anonymous Myballs said...
I know a couple lib democrats.

Is that like admitting you know black people dumbass????? I think they are all assholes......too bad truth is not a word that is in your vocabulary.....you still believe trumps Uke meddling and that he did nothing wrong.....70% of voters disagree with you!!!!!

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Sondland’s Testimony Leaves Trump Allies Scrambling
November 21, 2019 at 6:38 am EST

Washington Post: “As he traveled on Air Force One to Texas, Trump called members of the House to argue that the testimony was good for him, according to an aide familiar with the conversations who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the private talks. Trump also professed to reporters that he had little familiarity with Sondland, a major donor to his inauguration who testified that he had spoken with the president about 20 times.”

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Pompeo Emerges as Major Trump Enabler
November 21, 2019 at 6:43 am EST

New York Times: “Mr. Sondland’s testimony has undercut any notion that Mr. Pompeo, the administration’s most powerful national security official, was not a participant in Mr. Trump’s efforts to pressure Ukraine. It also firmly places him at the center of one of the nation’s biggest foreign policy controversies in nearly two decades, since the debate over the intelligence that led to the war in Iraq.”

“Mr. Pompeo has told associates that he believes the impeachment testimonies are partly aimed at forcing him to play a Washington game that would end with him turning on the president to save his own career. And he refuses to participate, Mr. Pompeo has said.”

WELL, TRUMP HAS ALREADY TURNED ON POMPEO, SO MAY BE OLD POMPEO SHOULD START RECONSIDERING..


Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

“Women are held to a higher standard. Otherwise we could play a game called ‘name your favorite women president,’ which we can’t do because it has all been men. … And if you think a woman can’t beat Donald Trump, Nancy Pelosi does it every single day.”
— Sen. Amy Klobuchar, during last night’s Democratic debate.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...


Fiona Hill Undercuts Another GOP Defense
November 21, 2019 at 8:10 am EST

Former National Security Council official Fiona Hill will say in her opening statement to the House Intelligence Committee this morning that some lawmakers appear to believe Ukraine, not Russia, sought to interfere in 2016 election: “This is a fictional narrative.”

Says Hill: “I refuse to be part of an effort to legitimize an alternate narrative that the Ukrainian government is a U.S. adversary, and that Ukraine—not Russia—attacked us in 2016. These fictions are harmful even if they are deployed for purely domestic political purposes. President Putin and the Russian security services operate like a Super PAC. They deploy millions of dollars to weaponize our own political opposition research and false narratives. When we are consumed by partisan rancor, we cannot combat these external forces as they seek to divide us against each another, degrade our institutions, and destroy the faith of the American people in our democracy.”

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Congress Needs to Hear from More Witnesses
November 21, 2019 at 7:23 am EST

The New York Times editorial board tells House Democrats to slow down on impeachment.

“Americans shouldn’t be distracted by Republican smoke bombs, but they should also not be satisfied with a truncated inquiry into a question as consequential as whether the president of the United States should be removed from office.”

“It is essential for the House to conduct a thorough inquiry, including hearing testimony from critical players who have yet to appear. Right now, the House Intelligence Committee has not scheduled testimony from any witnesses after Thursday. That is a mistake. No matter is more urgent, but it should not be rushed — for the protection of the nation’s security, and for the integrity of the presidency, and for the future of the Republic.”

Caliphate4vr said...

And the pederast spams shit no one will readi

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Trump Calls Democrats ‘Human Scum’
November 21, 2019 at 8:29 am EST

President Trump on Twitter this morning:

“Corrupt politician Adam Schiff’s lies are growing by the day. Keep fighting tough, Republicans, you are dealing with human scum who have taken Due Process and all of the Republican Party’s rights away from us during the most unfair hearings in American History…

“But we are winning big, and they will soon be on our turf.”
_____________

I'm just so glad he didn't call us something horrible like "depolorables."

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

What America Is Reading This Morning
November 21, 2019 at 8:43 am EST

As the last publicly scheduled impeachment hearings begin, here are how the nation’s major newspapers covered yesterday’s hearings on their front pages:

***New York Times: “We Followed the President’s Orders”

***Washington Post: “Diplomat Acknowledges Quid Pro Quo”

***Wall Street Journal: “Envoy Says Trump Directed Effort”

***USA Today: “Everyone Was In the Loop”

For those wondering how Fox News covered the hearings, the front page of their website is all about Democratic debate last night. But if you scroll down the page, there’s a small headline:

***Fox News: “Media Buzz: Sondland declares quid pro quo, pundits call testimony damaging to Trump”

LOL Damaging to Trump indeed!

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Prediction: Holmes will simply and plainly state that he DID hear Sondland use the word "Biden."

Anonymous said...

Caliphate4vrNovember 21, 2019 at 7:40 AM

And the pederast spams shit no one will read."

I know I didn't.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

deplorables

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

LOL You both read every word I write.

JAMES'S FUCKING DADDY said...

The lying POS "pastor" James said: “Corrupt politician Adam Schiff’s lies are growing by the day. Keep fighting tough, Republicans, you are dealing with human scum"...
I'm just so glad he didn't call us something horrible like "depolorables."



When Trump called Schiff HUMAN SCUM which he is I can see why the lying POS "pastor" self-identified as that too. and I guess "depolorables"

Schiff and James. two peas of the same pod.

And heading to the same place.

Caliphate4vr said...

You don’t write anything you are incapable of thought

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

House Impeachments Hearings Continue in Just a Few Minutes
November 21, 2019 at 8:50 am EST

David Holmes and Fiona Hill will testify.

Playbook:
“Democrats have high hopes for Holmes and Hill for different reasons. Holmes, of course, is a bit of an accidental witness. He overheard the Gordon Sondlan/Donald Trump high-volume phone call while at lunch in Kyiv — a phone call during which the ambassador and president talked about investigations and A$AP Rocky.”

“Of course, Hill is expected to be a bombshell for Democrats. She reported to John Bolton and was close with him, so she could be a stalking horse for some of his ideas, theories and views on this matter. She was intimately involved in Russia and Ukraine policy, so expect her to be able to answer questions about the inner workings of the Trump White House.”

OH MY.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

TO Poor old upset Cali:
I deal in facts, not just my own opinions.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

I guess Cowardly has a reading problem. It wasn't just Schiff that Trump called human scum.

Caliphate4vr said...

No stupid you post others opinions because you are incapable of thought

Dumb old man

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

And who gets "five pinochios on a daily basis"? LOL

JAMES'S FUCKING DADDY said...

James said...
TO Poor old upset Cali:
I deal in facts, not just my own opinions.


Dear Readers:

The FACT is the POS lying "pastor" relies on FAKE NEWS, political_liar, and LIES and OMISSIONS.

not too complicated.

RPFLMFAO !!!

Anonymous said...

Jane's, I read what you write.

I don't read Alky , or Fatty or your endless cut n paste.

Anonymous said...

Sondland was a mess.

Anonymous said...

Scoring last nite dwarf show.

look how none of the Three Socialist Stooges of CHT talked about it.

Bernie moved the end of the earth clock to 8 years and trashed Obimbocare .

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Oh this hearing is just looking SO GOOD for you Republicans.
Yes, how wonderfully it is going for your side.
Yes indeedy, indeedy. Yes.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

THIS WAS WRITTEN BEFORE FIONA HILL'S TESTIMONY

A Warning to Republicans on Fiona Hill
November 21, 2019 at 9:05 am EST

Banjamin Wittes:
“This is a good opportunity to say a few words about Fiona Hill, who has been a Brookings Institution colleague for many years. Fiona is a formidable person—a first-rate mind with genuine and unusual expertise in Russia policy.

“She was not a Trumpist, in any sense, which made her decision to go into the administration a matter of some surprise among her colleagues. For a serious Russia hand to serve in Trump’s NSC was, after all, quite a leap. I am sure that Fiona has had to make compromises as a result of the contradictions inherent in that decision. (Imagine being a serious Russia person on the NSC during and after Helsinki, for example).

“But it should be impossible to dismiss Fiona’s testimony as that of a Never Trumper. This is someone who was not a career bureaucrat who was willing—to the confusion of much of her professional cohort—to go into government in a political role to serve under Trump on Russia.

“One other thing—a warning to the cocky Republican member who may try to be patronizing or think he or she is gonna have a good C-SPAN moment at Fiona’s expense: Fiona is smarter than you. She knows more. And she is impatient with idiocy. You are likely to embarrass yourself.”
_________
WOW! Was that RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

QUESTION FOR CH unTRUTH: WHAT DID FIONA HILL "REALLY" PROVIDE FOR DEMOCRATS?

caliphate4vr said...

WHY ARE YOU A STUPID OLD MAN?

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Former White House aide Fiona Hill accuses Republicans of echoing Russian propaganda

And WOW, did she NAIL them.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

“Mr. Giuliani’s requests were a quid pro quo for arranging a White House visit for President Zelensky,” he said. “Mr. Giuliani demanded that Ukraine make a public statement announcing investigations of the 2016 election/D.N.C. server and Burisma. Mr. Giuliani was expressing the desires of the president of the United States, and we knew that these investigations were important to the president.” With that, Sondland confirmed the heart of the Democrats’ case for impeachment.

Unlike you, I don't rely heavily upon the right wing websites to come to a conclusion. I actually watched the hearing and the President committed a felony and he should impeached and convicted of a high crime or misdemeanor.

caliphate4vr said...

The Democratic National Committee (DNC) released its disappointing October fundraising numbers in the middle of the party’s fifth presidential primary debate.

The DNC reported less than $8.7 million cash on hand and over $7 million debt in an FEC report released Wednesday.

The DNC’s poor fundraising numbers come less than a year out from the 2020 presidential election, and at a time when the Republican National Committee (RNC) and the re-election campaign of President Donald Trump continue to blow past fundraising numbers.

The RNC raised nearly three times as much money as the DNC last month, pulling in over $25 million in October, while reporting over $60 million cash on hand.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Prediction: Even the contributions of their desperate millionaires and billionaires will not save this election for the Republicans or their greedy, self-interested wealthy supporters.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

These hearings just keep getting better and better and better and....etc.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

MEANWHILE, MORE GOOD, HOPEFUL NEWS FOR THE WORLD

Netanyahu Indicted on Bribery and Fraud Charges
November 21, 2019 at 11:43 am

“Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was indicted Thursday on bribery, fraud and breach of trust charges in a set of long-running corruption cases, immediately throwing his political future into doubt and heightening the uncertainty and chaos surrounding Israel’s fitful, yearlong struggle to choose its next leader,” the New York Times reports.

“The cases against Mr. Netanyahu involve allegations of giving or offering lucrative official favors to several media tycoons in exchange for either favorable coverage in news outlets or gifts worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.

“Mr. Netanyahu is not legally required to step down. But with Israel’s political system already in uncharted territory, having failed to settle upon a new prime minister despite two elections and three attempts at forming a government since April, the criminal case against him could make it far more difficult for him to retain power.”

C.H. Truth said...

Well James...

for starters, when you are plugging someone's credentials before they testify, it's likely because they have nothing much to offer (other than opinion).

Do you recall the movie "A Few Good Men" where Lt Kaffee objects to Capt Ross's plan to call all of the members of the infantry unit to verify a meeting that took place?

Kaffee agrees to stipulate that every member will say the same thing regarding the meeting of Ross stipulates that none of those members were in Lawson and Downey's room 10 minutes later?


This is where we are at.

The GOP could simply agree to stipulate that every person called will effectively say the same thing. That they disagreed with Trump policy, especially his use of Giuliani, and that they had heard second or third hand information regarding Presidential demands for a variety of investigations in exchange for a variety of things (White House visit, Aid, free stay at the Trump Plaza, a threesome with Melania and Ivanka, etc...)

If the Democrats would stipulate that not a single one of them will be able to provide any first hand knowledge of any specific agreement made between Trump and Zelensky regarding the aid being released in exchange for Zelensky talking about or ordering investigations into the Bidens.


Because short of first hand proof of that specific agreement taking place, there is going to be no tangible movement of the needle. More of the same is just more of the same, and if the Democrats continue to just parade witnesses forward to attack policy and repeat gossip... then they are gong to CONTINUE TO LOSE SUPPORT as they have since this thing started.

C.H. Truth said...

And to be clear James...

Even if they "did" find the first hand evidence, it's still not going to be enough to get any sort of GOP support in either the House or Senate.

You know why? Because GOP lawmakers do not believe it's a crime, and because it never actually took place.

You cannot change people's minds by continuing to beat the same dead horse over and over.

Rep. Jim Jordan said...

@Jim_Jordan

A 40 minute opening statement from a guy who overheard a phone call that was “a couple minutes.”

THIS is the Democrats’ last ditch effort? Talk about desperate.

Buck Sexton said...

@BuckSexton

Russia invaded eastern Ukraine, picked off Crimea, and shot an airliner out of the sky killing hundreds of civilians *WHILE OBAMA WAS PRESIDENT*

And none of that got 1/1000th of the attention or outrage from the media that Trump’s phone call with Zelensky has.

Seems legit


and who was VP ?

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

A POWERFUL INDICTMENT OF CERTAIN REPUBLICANS

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-hill-says-russia-wanted-any-newly-minted-u-s-president-in-2016-under-a-cloud

cowardly king obama said...

Confidence in Trump economy at record high, with no hit from impeachment

Another poll finds that public support for President Trump has not waned in the face of House impeachment hearings, and the approval for his handling of the economy has hit a new record high.

In today’s Gallup survey, 57% approve of the Trump economy. That, said the survey analysis, is “by one percentage point, his best as president.”
It comes as the stock market is hitting new highs, and unemployment is at a low for several groups.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/confidence-in-trump-economy-at-record-high-no-hit-from-impeachment

WINNING !!!

Benny said...

@bennyjohnson

NUNES: "It’s Not President Trump Who Got Caught; It’s the Democrats Who Got Caught

https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1197530080492347394


video cuts off a bit short but extremely damning recap of Schiff and his coup cartel.

anonymous said...


Anonymous Rep. Jim Jordan said...
@Jim_Jordan

A 40 minute opening statement

Jim and the coward are both unadulterated trump slurping idiots.....Fiona sure took the wind out of Nunes with the Fake Uke meddled BS and firmly put it in Putins lap......Unfortuanately, the R's here will never accept that truth since trump ate what little minds they have left!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Yes. So much winning.

anonymous said...

Who the fuck is Benny Johnson?????? Another fake news source from putin?????? WTF is wrong with you assholes?????

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Another bombshell



Dr. Fiona Hill, the former Deputy Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Europe and Russia on the National Security Council, delivered a scathing bombshell opening statement Thursday morning before the House Intelligence Committee’s impeachment hearing.

Hill’s statement directly targeted Ranking Republican Member Devin Nunes’ lie that Ukraine, not Russia, attacked the U.S. 2016 election.




“Based on questions and statements I have heard, some of you on this committee appear to believe that Russia and its security services did not conduct a campaign against our country and that perhaps, somehow, for some reason, Ukraine did,” Dr. Hill said in her statement before Congress. “This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves.”

“I refuse to be part of an effort to legitimize an alternate narrative that the Ukrainian government is a U.S. adversary, and that Ukraine — not Russia — attacked us in 2016,” Dr. Hill continued. “These fictions are harmful even if they are deployed for purely domestic political purposes.”

anonymous said...


Yes. So much winning.


Especially your HD stock with its awful reduced future guidance.....appearantly they see something in the economy that idiots like the goat fucking idiot!!!!!

Anonymous said...

"
Existing home sales Oct. 5.46 mln ⬆️

Mollie said...

@MZHemingway

Impeachment theater has a pattern. Every morning, media receive and dutifully regurgitate their "WOW!" talking points, followed by, as @marcthiessen puts it, unexploded ordnance.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-democrats-impeachment-bombshells-arent-exploding/2019/11/19/7322f0b0-0b22-11ea-bd9d-c628fd48b3a0_story.html

an orchestrated farce, A HISTORICAL MAJOR BLEMISH on OUR REPUBLIC.

We shall see what Horowitz, then even more importantly Durham and Barr have to say about a cesspool of deep state and Obama administration bad actors.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

WOW. DID SHE TELL IT LIKE IT IS!

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/hill-delivers-her-opening-statement-at-an-impeachment-hearing-73820229579

Anonymous said...

Dennis, can you convert your post to functional English?

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The Coldheartedtruth is that no matter what the President says or does is an impeachable offense in your demented mind.

Anonymous said...

😁Existing home sales Oct. 5.46 mln ⬆️😀

anonymous said...

What idiots on the right still hold onto the BS that the Ukrainians meddled in the 2016 elections like trump claims??????? I am confident all I will get is crickets since none of you have the brains to see the truth!!!!!!!

cowardly king obama said...


lo iq "anonymous" you need to refer to me by my proper name "cowardly KING OBAMA"

and are you really as stupid as you appear or is it just a façade ?

Either way you are very successful on displaying your ignorance.

ROFLMFAO !!!

C.H. Truth said...

Hey Roger....

Isn't it possible that both Russia AND Ukraine interfered in our election? Or is there some sort of first come first serve and now nobody else can interfere reality that I am not aware of?


Last time I checked, the only people talking about this "substitution" of Ukraine for Russia are those following the Democratic TPM.

Anonymous said...

Miss Hill penned a public piece in 2015 against Ukraine receiving US Military Aid.

Obimbo/Biden refuse to defend Ukraine as the Russians grabbed land.

Anonymous said...

Roger, are you Kids having you into thier homes for Thanksgiving?

anonymous said...

mocrat said...
😁Existing home sales Oct. 5.46 man


DUE TO LOW INTEREST RATES UP BY A MEASLY 1% BWAAAAAAPAAAAAA!!!!!

C.H. Truth said...

What idiots on the right still hold onto the BS that the Ukrainians meddled in the 2016 elections like trump claims?

Well the Ukrainians DID investigate Trump's campaign manager in the middle of the 2016 election and then leaked that information to the American press...

I think some people today are making the argument that investigating political figures (especially foreign entities doing the investigations) is a manner of election interference?


Either way... we spent three years investigating Trump being a Russian Spy.

We can find a couple of resources to investigate how the Ukrainians might have (or might not have) interfered as well!


As liberals like to say?

What do the Ukrainians/Democrats have to hide?

Anonymous said...

Miss Hill.

"In her article, titled “How aiding the Ukrainian military could push Putin into a regional war,” Hill argued:

The logic of sending weapons to Ukraine seems straightforward and is the same as the logic for economic sanctions: to change Vladi­mir Putin’s “calculus.” Increasing the Ukrainian army’s fighting capacity, the thinking goes, would allow it to kill more rebels and Russian soldiers, generating a backlash in Russia and ultimately forcing the Russian president to the negotiating table.

We strongly disagree."



Dan Crenshaw said...

@DanCrenshawTX

Opening line of Dem debate: “Sondland testimony buttresses case that Trump withheld aid in exchange for investigations.”

Except the multiple instances today where Ambassador Sondland specifically said Trump never told him that, and in fact told him “I want nothing.”


FAKE NEWS and the DNC rely on lo iq voters. Scientific fact displayed here regularly. Look at lo iq not being aware of Ukraine interference in 2016. Barely scraping the bottom of the barrel intelligence at that.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

What do the Ukrainians/Democrats have to hide?

NOTHING.
Stop trying to prevent Trump's associates from testifying.
Let Trump himself testify.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Pull Giuliani out from under the bus and let him testify.

Danielle Misiak said...

@DanielleMisiak

Chris Cuomo calls his mom to prove you can hear someone talking on the phone without speakerphone and it was... something.

"Can you just say hello? Mom? She probably can't hear me. Mom, can you hear me? Mom? Say hello to Dana Bash."
video: https://twitter.com/DanielleMisiak/status/1197557633059885056


Fredo destroys Schiff witness on live TV

ROFLMFAO, you can't make this shit up !!!

anonymous said...

AS I thought the goat fucker once again gives half the story .....typical of dumb fucking losers who have lost their mind!!!!!

From the dated Fiona Op ed......seems her mind evolved over the years and speaks with authority about what a fuck trump is!!!!!

The logic of sending weapons to Ukraine seems straightforward and is the same as the logic for economic sanctions: to change Vladi­mir Putin’s “calculus.” Increasing the Ukrainian army’s fighting capacity, the thinking goes, would allow it to kill more rebels and Russian soldiers, generating a backlash in Russia and ultimately forcing the Russian president to the negotiating table.

We strongly disagree…

It is hard to find effective alternatives to the current sanctions policy, but if we plunge headlong into sending weapons, we may lose our allies, and we may never have the opportunity to get things right.

Hill explained that once she entered the Trump administration in April 2017, she saw that there was a proper “plan” in place for military assistance. “[E]verybody changes their mind, you know, and kind of learns things. I, you know, was basically persuaded that, you know, this was actualty worth doing,” she told the committee in her deposition.

All of the witnesses have admitted that President Trump’s policy of sending weapons to Ukraine has worked and is more effective than President Barack Obama’s policy, which denied lethal defensive assistance to the Ukrainians.

Myballs said...

Liberal friends are raging on Facebook that nunes is lying and spinning everything, gop only obsessed about whistleblower and dems are on the high ground. They really believe this.

It concerns me that we have two realities.

C.H. Truth said...

NOTHING.

Then why do these witnesses keep bring it up?

Why do they "demand" illogically that investigating Ukraine would have something to do with Russia?

Seems very apparent that many of these old Ukraine diplomats are pretty over the top in their defense of Ukraine... and to some degree, isn't this entire impeachment hearing a manner of obstructing investigations into Ukraine, Burisman Holdings (Hunter Biden), etc... by claiming it's illegal to do so?

When have we ever (prior to 2016) believed that investigating possible corruption could be seen as a crime?


It would seem many have lots to hide!

So why not investigate?

David Marcus said...

@BlueBoxDave

“Rep. Adam Schiff’s grift is coming to an end soon, but he’s already blown the gaff. His mark, the American people are seeing through the con game.”

When it came to the military aid, Sondland testified that he “presumed” the less than two month delay was a result of Zelensky refusing to announce investigations against Burisma, the Ukrainian energy concern that was paying then Vice President Joe Biden’s son a fortune for apparently nothing, and into alleged interference in the 2016 election. He was told this by no one, certainly not the president, who flat out told him he wanted nothing from Zelensky, he just kind of figured it.

The next shiny paint job that got the left in a tizzy of Trump loathing was Sondland saying that the president didn’t even want the investigations, just the announcement. Some seized on this as evidence that Trump’s sole intention was to smear the Biden’s not to fight corruption, but Sondland himself put the lie to this theory. He explained that Ukraine has a history of failing to live up to promises made in private, so the president wanted a public announcement to ensure the investigations would in fact happen.

The broad picture we got of Sondland was that of a wealthy guy, with a lot of ego, who loves colorful language and enjoys touting his power as an ambassador and who likes to brag about having the president’s ear. It was Sondland who told the Ukrainians that military aid was tied to investigations, but apparently under nobody’s authority. He had a hunch, and he thought that was good enough to go on.

Throughout this impeachment process, just like the Mueller probe into Russian collusion before it, a bunch of gotcha moments, made to look damning have turned out to be nothing more than the somewhat unconventional running of the White House and a campaign for it. For three years now the “walls have been closing in” on Trump, but like Zeno’s arrow, they never seem to actually touch him.

https://thefederalist.com/2019/11/21/gordon-sondlands-testimony-changed-nothing-about-adam-schiffs-grift/

Anonymous said...

Obama/Biden/Hill failed.

"The Crimean Peninsula was annexed by the Russian Federation between February and March 2014."

Commonsense said...

What idiots on the right still hold onto the BS that the Ukrainians meddled in the 2016 elections like trump claims?

Maybe they got the idea from this story,

Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire

Donald Trump wasn’t the only presidential candidate whose campaign was boosted by officials of a former Soviet bloc country.

Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found.

A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation.

The Ukrainian efforts had an impact in the race, helping to force Manafort’s resignation and advancing the narrative that Trump’s campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine’s foe to the east, Russia. But they were far less concerted or centrally directed than Russia’s alleged hacking and dissemination of Democratic emails.

Commonsense said...

I suspect Dr Hill will be throughly cross-exam on the above story.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Let me guess that they are part of the deep state conspiracy to destroy Donald Trump?

The former top Europe and Russia expert at the National Security Council denounced the “false narrative” promoted by President Trump and Republicans that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election, calling it a dangerous story planted by Russia that plays into Moscow’s hands. A senior embassy official in Kyiv testified that his “clear impression” was that Mr. Trump froze security aid to push Ukraine to investigate the Bidens.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Ms. Hill and Mr. Holmes said on Thursday that there was zero doubt that mentions of Burisma by Mr. Trump, Rudolph W. Giuliani, his personal lawyer, or others were clearly references to investigations of the Bidens that the president wanted Ukraine to announce.

Kurt D. Volker, the former special envoy to Ukraine, and Gordon D. Sondland, the ambassador to the European Union, both testified that for many months they believed that mentions of Burisma were merely references to the need to eliminate corruption that was taking place in Ukraine, given the history of corruption at the company.

But both witnesses on Thursday said unequivocally that Burisma was “code” for the Bidens, and that anyone working on Ukraine issues would know that. Ms. Hill said that it was clear in part because Mr. Giuliani had made that linkage “publicly, repeatedly” in his appearances on television.

Asked by the Democratic counsel for the House Intelligence Committee whether “anyone involved in Ukraine matters in the spring and summer would understand that as well,” Mr. Holmes had a one-word answer.

Yes he said

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

2nd Impeachment Witness Believed Aid Was Tied to Investigations https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/21/us/politics/impeachment-hearing.html

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Let me guess that they are part of the deep state conspiracy to destroy Donald Trump?

Menstra says it again and again and again and!

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Must say I’m impressed by these government employees who have dedicated their lives serving the United States and not a particular President. They follow the rules and do what’s good for the country. Which is more than I can say about the “bosses”.

They are American people who have devoted their lives to protect the Constitution of the United States, not Donald Trump

Commonsense said...

Let me guess that they are part of the deep state conspiracy to destroy Donald Trump?
Menstra says it again and again and again and!


Well I didn't say it. POLITICO did.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has reportedly told three prominent Republicans that he is planning to resign from the White House to run for a Senate seat.

As a civilian he could testify under oath.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

You are claiming that Dr Hill is part of the conspiracy!!??

🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰

caliphate4vr said...

How loud is the communal TV in the "entertainment room" of your old folks home, Rog?

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

She would have to used to articulate to lie under oath to convict the President of high crimes or misdemeanors?

You probably believe that Lee Havey Buckworld didn't assassinate JFK!

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

I am the only person who lives here.

Commonsense said...

Blogger Roger Amick said...
You are claiming that Dr Hill is part of the conspiracy!!??


You're a lunatic. Take your meds.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Holmes described in detail an unusual lunch in which he overheard Sondland’s phone call with Trump.
Holmes: “This was a very distinctive experience. I’ve never seen anything like this in my foreign service career, someone at a lunch in a restaurant making a call on a cellphone to the president of the United States, being able to hear his voice, very distinctive personality.”

Mr. Holmes provided more details on Thursday about the now infamous lunch he had with Mr. Sondland and two other State Department staffers on July 26 in Kyiv. It was at this lunch that Mr. Holmes overheard a phone call between Mr. Sondland and Mr. Trump — one in which Mr. Trump asked Mr. Sondland if the Ukrainian president planned “to do the investigation.”

Mr. Holmes described a relaxed setting at an outdoor terrace with the weather that day in the upper 70s. Mr. Sondland ordered a bottle of wine, he said, which the four of them shared, and discussed marketing strategies for Mr. Sondland’s boutique hotel business.

The additional details add more credibility to Mr. Holmes’s recollection, which Republicans have tried to diminish. Mr. Sondland on Wednesday told lawmakers that he did not remember all of the details of that conversation with Mr. Trump, but he agreed that a friendly comment recalled by Mr. Holmes — Mr. Sondland telling the president that President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine “loves your ass” — sounded like something he would say.

Mr. Trump on Thursday said that what Mr. Holmes described — a conversation that was not on speaker phone but could still be overheard — was virtually impossible.

Trump tweeted this morning


Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
I have been watching people making phone calls my entire life. My hearing is, and has been, great. Never have I been watching a person making a call, which was not on speakerphone, and been able to hear or understand a conversation. I’ve even tried, but to no avail. Try it live!

Commonsense said...

You probably believe that Lee Havey Buckworld didn't assassinate JFK!

Certainly, since it was Lee Harvey Oswald that killed Kennedy.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Your own words and copy paste said.

Maybe they got the idea from this story,

Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire

Donald Trump wasn’t the only presidential candidate whose campaign was boosted by officials of a former Soviet bloc country.

Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found.

A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation.

The Ukrainian efforts had an impact in the race, helping to force Manafort’s resignation and advancing the narrative that Trump’s campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine’s foe to the east, Russia. But they were far less concerted or centrally directed than Russia’s alleged hacking and dissemination of Democratic emails.

Reply

CommonsenseNovember 21, 2019 at 11:54 AM
I suspect Dr Hill will be throughly cross-exam on the above story.

The Childmolester congressman Jordan will say the same bullshit again

C.H. Truth said...

The former top Europe and Russia expert at the National Security Council denounced the “false narrative” promoted by President Trump and Republicans that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election,

So a guy who didn't have anything to do with Ukraine...

Knows there is nothing there, huh?

Let's investigate and find out!

Actually... it's probably already going on. Just that unlike Democratic administrations, these sorts of investigations are not for public consumption and Barr and the professionals in the DOJ will keep it under wraps (unless something comes of it - then we will hear about it).

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

I should have spell checked myself!!!

Oswald

I actually remember that day when JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald.

Commonsense said...

Mr. Trump on Thursday said that what Mr. Holmes described — a conversation that was not on speaker phone but could still be overheard — was virtually impossible.

Trump tweeted this morning


Fredo on CNN third to disprove this with his Mom on the phone. He failed spectacularly.

C.H. Truth said...

But both witnesses on Thursday said unequivocally that Burisma was “code” for the Bidens

Oh! So they never actually heard anyone talk about the Bidens.

But they are "sure" (without providing any evidence) that Burisma was "code" for Bidens?



Another witness that would not even be allowed to testify in an actual trial.

caliphate4vr said...

You probably believe that Lee Havey Buckworld didn't assassinate JFK!

November 21, 2019 at 12:24 PM
Blogger Roger Amick said...
I am the only person who lives here.


I'll just leave that right there.

DEL-U-SION-AL

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

CH, Barr has been silent for a long time since the President asked him to step up and kiss his ass.


He may be disbarred because he got into the swamp of the Trump administration.

caliphate4vr said...

But they are "sure" (without providing any evidence) that Burisma was "code" for Bidens?

The left knows what people think since the days of hanging chads

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

This is not a Court hearing Scott A**hole. It is an impeachment hearing.

caliphate4vr said...

CH, Barr has been silent for a long time since the President asked him to step up and kiss his ass.


Hello Mr Potatohead he gave a major speech less than a week ago

God damn you're always wrong

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Grasping at straws again and again.

"But they are "sure" (without providing any evidence) that Burisma was "code" for Bidens?"

"Another witness that would not even be allowed to testify in an actual trial."

This is not a Court hearing Scott A**hole. It is an impeachment hearing.

Commonsense said...

Your own words and copy paste said.
Maybe they got the idea from this story,
Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire
I suspect Dr Hill will be throughly cross-exam on the above story.


If you have a beef with the story send POLITCO a note.

And yes, since it's Dr Hill's position that Ukraine interference in the 2016 election is a false narrative then I suspect she will be cross-examined on this point.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

It was not the comments the President had requested.

cowardly king obama said...

Roger Amick said...
CH, Barr has been silent for a long time


Wrong again, and what a GREAT SPEECH he gave. Video is available but here's the entire text:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/attorney-general-william-p-barr-delivers-19th-annual-barbara-k-olson-memorial-lecture

caliphate4vr said...

He hasn't been silent like you claim. Next time they pile you and your roomies in the van for a trip get them to up your dementia meds

Commonsense said...

This is not a Court hearing Scott A**hole. It is an impeachment hearing.

To the American people, it is a court hearing and if the Democrats don't treat it as such they will be punished in the polls.

But I suspect it's already too late for the Democrats. Like lemmings they will follow their leaders over the cliff.

Retired Orrin G. Hatch said...

@RetiredOrrin

Retired Orrin G. Hatch Retweeted Political Polls
If impeachment is already hurting Democrats this much now, imagine the impact it will have a month or two down the road when its still dragging on and Democrats unloaded their best arguments in these first few weeks.

C.H. Truth said...

This is not a Court hearing Scott A**hole. It is an impeachment hearing.

So you are admitting that is little more than a political facade, with no meaningful ties to any normal legal proceeding.

A while back you were suggesting it was like a grand jury. Even in a grand jury proceeding, there are legal hurdles that need to be cleared in order to testify.

They still do not indict on hearsay and assumptions.

- I heard he robbed the bank.
- He said he was going to the dentist, but I am sure that was code for robbing the bank.
- I overheard him on the phone using the word bank. Didn't say anything about robbing it, but we all assumed that's what he meant.

Yeah, Roger...

Good luck with that, huh?

anonymous said...


So you are admitting that is little more than a political facade,


Which you dumb fucking loser everyone but you seems to know.....It is political as defined by the constitution!!!!!!

anonymous said...

Lil Scotty caught again lying to make a point!!!!! Nice going sport.!!!!

GRAND JURY HEARSAY STATUTES
olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2017R1/Downloads/...
request the transcript. The availability of a grand jury report is governed by Criminal Rule 6.1. (n) Finding and Return of Indictment. (1) An indictment may be found only upon the concurrence of a majority of the total number of jurors comprising the grand jury when the grand jury is sworn and


So much for your post, Lil Scotty.....this is fun!!!! Suggest you search the document hearsay,,,,,,there are various statutes in different states that allow it.....!!!!! BTW FU.....

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Speaking of political charades, Nunes cut off the Republican lawyer and started asking Hill questions about the Steele dossier.

Deep state conspiracy theories on steroids have revealed your dementia symptoms Scott A**hole.

Impeachment is political as defined by the constitution.!

That really bothers you

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Criminal Rule 6.1. (n) Finding and Return of Indictment. (1) An indictment may be found only upon the concurrence of a majority of the total number of jurors comprising the grand jury when the grand jury is sworn and they decide whether to believe or not.

Impeachment is not a criminal procedure, you claim to be so fucking smart, but you close your mind to Thecoldheartedtruth you used to respect.

C.H. Truth said...

Roger and Denny...

So angry? Why so easily irritated? I mean, just because this whole impeachment thing is falling apart, don't take it out on me!

Did you see the latest poll showing how much Democrats have been able to convince Independents... NOT to support impeachment? Can't wait till this goes to the Senate.

Perhaps Mitch and gang will allow all sorts of questions regarding the Steele Dossier? Would be no more or less important than calling a Former Ambassador who wasn't even employed with the alleged "inappropriate" behavior took place!

Nothing the Democrats can do at that point but suck on lemons!

Schiff and Pelosi set the bar. All holds barred, partisan attack!

anonymous said...

So angry? Why so easily irritated?


When in doubt the losing Lil Scotty just makes more shit up!!!!! The fact remains your opinion is just that a stupid opinion...Me thinks otherwise......DId you see the poll 70% of the voters think trump did wrong????? That includes a lot of indy's you dumb fuck....It won't pass the senate IMHO.....Never had a chance.....but the dirty laundry needed to come out and it is......more grounds that trump is impotent and a crook....but until the gavel falls down on a real trial.......you idiots will never give him up because of what a great man he is!!!!!!! BWAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

Commonsense said...

I feel good about the hearings.

Anonymous said...

I do too.

The Schitt Show has been entertaining .

Roger, you have said this thingy turns on perception and not on the actual law. Odd stance.

Anonymous said...

CHT you got Denny to drop a forknlong enough to admit this is in his open a "show Trial".

Well done CHT.

C.H. Truth said...

WAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

So you are still ALL CAPS crying and angry!

All that matters is that he is now beating or virtually beating all comers in the independent polling. Both nationally and in state races.

Sure, MSM commissioned polling will continue to show him down by 20-25 points to Beto O'Rourke with his dog as his running mate! But that is just because MSM commissioned polling is going to be a joke up until about 1 week or so before the election... then they will all mysteriously fall in line with what the real pollsters are showing!

C.H. Truth said...

you have said this thingy turns on perception

The longstanding perception is that impeaching a President requires proof of a criminal action.

The Democrats are desperately trying to substitute criminal with the term "inappropriate" as the basis for impeachment.

Or as Denny suggested. A good portion believe he did something "wrong"... as if that is the new standard for impeachment.


Either way, the President and the GOP will continue to remind the public that impeachment is for High Crimes and Misdemeanors, not for addressing policy disputes between the President and his subordinate's subordinate's subordinates.



Wait for the Senate Trial!