Thursday, January 30, 2020

Critics are wrong about the Dershowitz argument...

Dershowitz is not saying that nothing the President could do is impeachable...

I am not 100% sure at this point whether frustrated critics just don't understand the Dershowitz argument, are subconsciously or consciously refusing to accept the argument, or purposely straw-manning the argument to make it appear worse than what he is arguing. But whichever excuse they have, they are getting it wrong.


Now do I think Dershowitz goes a little too far on the absolute nature of his argument? Sure, but the underlying argument couldn't be any more sound, in terms of real world workings of our political system.

What Dershowitz is arguing (in a nutshell) is that the entire system of our government is a quid pro quo regarding garnering power and those who have it remaining in power. The basic reality is that our politicians are constantly running and campaigning for their next election (whether that be keeping their seat or moving up in the world). As much as they would love to tell you that they do everything for the good of the nation, nobody would (and nobody should believe them). The entire manner in which our Government is run (good, bad, or indifferent) is based on mutual relationships that exist within the scope of political quid pro quo.

Take the history of unions for example. Unions could collect dues, and then use a portion of those dues to back Democratic candidates for a variety of office. In exchange, Democrats in power would work to create laws that make it easier for unions to exist and for unions to collect dues and they work doubly hard to prevent laws that make it harder for people to unionize and to collect dues. The more successful Democrats were in controlling the laws, the more successful unions were collecting dues, and the more support (financial and otherwise) the unions could provide for these Democrats to be elected.

On the flip side, many corporations or corporate owners will back GOP candidates, hoping that they pass laws that might give them tax breaks, reduce red tape, and perhaps even limit their employees ability to go through a costly unionization process. If these laws pass, these GOP backers will make more money, and in theory be able to do more to support GOP candidates in their quest to win elections.

Now both sides will tell you that the real reason that they are doing this is because they believe in the causes (not because it helps them get reelected). But regardless of what you want to believe, most everything politicians do has one eye on whether or not it will help them get reelected. Even how a Congress person votes (or voted) in the impeachment fiasco is analyzed by whether or not it helps or hurts their election chances.

Imagine demanding that all of these basic fundamental gives and takes of our political machine are somehow akin to illegal election interference, or a corrupt quid pro quo that should land them all at the short end of an impeachment or removal process?

As obviously silly as that sounds, the question becomes where do we draw the line?

With half the country seemingly agreeing with the political considerations of every single politician, it's difficult to prove that any politicians does something entirely to get reelected. Even if they did, can that possibly be considered to be illegal? After all, part of their jobs is to keep their jobs. If they feel that they are the best person for the job (and most probably do) then they are allowed to openly campaign, openly seek out donors, openly vote for causes that will help them be reelected, and use their office to help that in anyway that isn't tangibly and defined as illegal.

In other words, Donald Trump asking about Hunter Biden in Ukraine is no different than Democrats supporting unions or Republicans supporting corporations. We all know that such support comes with a kickback of sorts, but as long as there is a plausible political argument to be made that they believe it's the right thing to do, then how can it be considered illegal?

The harm isn't in any argument that politicians are beyond reproach for any forms of campaign violations. There are literally hundreds of laws on the books that specifically address what you can and cannot do.  The harm is when you toss aside the pre-set laws and regulations, and allow partisan politicians to make an argument that their political opponents are acting in bad faith and therefore are breaking the law.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is the line that nobody should ever want to cross...

37 comments:

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Justice Dept Says House Can Impeach Over Subpoenas

“A Justice Department lawyer said Thursday in federal court that the House can impeach a president over ignored subpoenas, a noted contrast to what lawyers for President Trump are arguing at his Senate impeachment trial this week,” CNN reports.

“Asked by a federal judge what the House can do to enforce its subpoenas, Justice Department lawyer James Burnham said without hesitation that the House can use its impeachment powers, among other options, like withholding appropriations.”

TRUMP:
NO! NO! YOU CAN'T DO THAT. I'M RESISTING THOSE SUBPOENAS FOR THE GOOD OF THE COUNTRY, FOR THE SAKE OF MY RE-ELECTION, YOU SEE! I CAN'T BE IMPEACHED FOR THAT! I APPEAL TO DERSHOWITZ!

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Accuser Seeks DNA Sample from Trump

Associated Press:
“Lawyers for a woman who accuses President Donald Trump of raping her in the 1990s are asking for a DNA sample, seeking to determine whether his genetic material is on a dress she says she wore during the encounter.

“Advice columnist E. Jean Carroll’s lawyers served notice to a Trump attorney Thursday for Trump to submit a sample March 2 in Washington for ‘analysis and comparison against unidentified male DNA present on the dress.'”

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

New Audio Shows Lev Parnas at Dinner With Trump

A second audio recording obtained by the Daily Beast appears to show former Rudy Giuliani associates Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman attending an April 2018 fundraising dinner with President Trump along with former Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX).

Washington Post:
“The recordings of the two events undercut Trump’s repeated assertions that he does not know Parnas and Fruman, who were arrested in October on campaign finance charges.”

IT'S JUST GOING TO KEEP ON AND ON AND ON AND ON

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

NO WITNESSES WAS A COVER-UP!"
will ring down the halls of history.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY), who attended Harvard Law School in the early 1970s, held a news conference before today’s Senate impeachment proceedings:

REPORTER: Senator Schumer, did you take Professor Dershowitz’s class at Harvard Law School?

SCHUMER: No, and that’s why my arguments are cogent.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

The reason most Americans find Mr Trump’s trial tedious is because they know how it will end:
with the president, though guilty—as even some Republicans acknowledge in private—nonetheless acquitted by them.”

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

That was from
THE ECONOMIST

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

JAMES:
"Come over here, Ch, and whisper in my ear.
I promise I won't tell anyone what you say."

CHTRUTH:
"I know he's guilty, James.
I'm not stupid!"

Anonymous said...



the pederast has raised the white flag of surrender.

heh

anonymous said...


And you ARE TALKING OUT YOUR ASS LIL Scotty......Alan is becoming the laughing stock of alleged constitutional scholars.......just like you are an expert in the LAW!!!!!!!!!! BWAAAAAAPAAAAAA!!!!!!! All he has done is made trump king in a warped logic diatribe......which you will defend until the cows come home....

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Trump’s Super Bowl Ad Lauds the Economy

USA Today:
“The spot – texted to Trump supporters by the campaign on Thursday – features a narrator and news reports discussing wage growth, job increases, and record low levels of unemployment for African-Americans and Hispanics. The commercial ends with Trump at one of his political rallies proclaiming: ‘And ladies and gentlemen, the best is yet to come.'”

TRUE! Your defeat in the 2020 election by 54% or more.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

rrb:
"I know he's guilty too, James.
I'm not stupid either!"

anonymous said...

ames said...
Trump’s Super Bowl Ad Lauds the Economy


BWAAAAAAAAAA!!!! The projected 1.5% GDP or the trillion dollar deficits for the foreseeable future???????

C.H. Truth said...

A second audio recording obtained by the Daily Beast appears to show former Rudy Giuliani associates Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman attending an April 2018 fundraising dinner with President Trump along with former Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX).

I can buy my way into a fundraising dinner if I so choose (as thousands of Americans do)... doesn't mean I an close personal friends with the President!

Btw... what the fuck does it matter! Impeachment is OVER and this guy is going to jail!

Anonymous said...

Exactly

Anonymous said...




hey pederast,

watch your behavior around the little tikes or you'll be wearing an electronic monitoring anklet like parnas.

hehehehehehehe...


btw, did bolton testify today?

i had not heard since i was on the road most of the day.


anonymous said...


I can buy my way into a fundraising dinner if I so choose (as thousands of Americans do)


BWAAAAAAAA!!!!! Lil Scotty blowing it out his old white ass again.....how many Americans that efford such luxury are also indicted for campaign fraud.......LOLOLOLOL>>>>>Nice try asshole!!!!!

anonymous said...


Btw... what the fuck does it matter!


Just another brick in the wall of the trump criminal enterprise, you dumb fuck....

cowardly king obama said...

Robert Barnes
@Barnes_Law

A major problem w/ allowing new witnesses in the Senate trial is that it has the Senate voting on different record than the House did. That would be like the Senate passing a different law than the House did (not allowed; the identical law has to pass both chambers). #Impeachment

excellent argument, like they really need any more

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Schiff Proposes One Week to Depose Witnesses

In an effort to rebuff arguments that calling witnesses would prolong the trial, Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA), the lead House impeachment manager, suggested limiting the depositions of witnesses to one week, the New York Times reports.

Said Schiff:
“Is that too much to ask in the name of fairness — that we follow the Clinton model, that we take one week? Are we really driven by the timing of the State of the Union, should that be a guiding principle? Can’t we take one week to hear from these witnesses?”
__________________
REPUGS: NO WAY! Too many FACTS can come out in a week!

Anonymous said...




“Is that too much to ask in the name of fairness


the fucking balls on this psychopath.

tom cotton needs to walk up to this piece of shit and stomp his ass into a fucking puddle and walk it dry.

Anonymous said...

A major problem w/ allowing new witnesses in the Senate trial is that it has the Senate voting on different record than the House did.


an excellent point. how the hell this has been overlooked for this long is anyone's guess.

anonymous said...

s that it has the Senate voting on different record than the House did.


Wow captain obvious......having further and new testimony should obvious to even idiot losers like you!!!!!! It was not overlooked....it was due to trump demanding his minions to keep their mouths shut which they did!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

The problem with stupid people like Jane is any breeze blow up his skirt changes his position.

So now Schiff want a week, he had all the time he could have wanted in the House. The 33 day delay

Anonymous said...

looking at how favorable Chief Justice Roberts is treating the Democrat in the Senate.
The Schiff/Pelosi/Obama team should have gone to The Court to enforce issued Subpoeanas.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

A major problem w/ allowing new witnesses in the Senate trial is that it will allow the Senate and the American people to hear the first hand witnesses the White House kept from us and hearing evidence based on their first hand testimony. No good can come from that.

cowardly king obama said...


An extra week could be used to bring in this guy Eric Ciaramella who nobody seems to know who he is

And maybe release the Atkinson testimony.

And I guess if everyone agrees to waive their constitutional rights in advance.

Including the president. and Schiff. H should definitely be under oath. And the Bidens. Oh I nearly forgot, also the bit player Bolton.

Great idea Schiff

cowardly king obama said...

An extra week could be used to bring in this guy Eric Ciaramella who nobody seems to know who he is

And maybe release the Atkinson testimony.

And I guess if everyone agrees to waive their constitutional rights in advance.

Including the president. and Schiff. H should definitely be under oath. And the Bidens. Oh I nearly forgot, also the bit player Bolton.

Great idea Schiff


and then it may only take a week

cowardly king obama said...

Dan Bongino
@dbongino


That was pretty awesome, watching sleazy Adam Schiff melt down and panic when he was questioned about his slimy coordination with the whistleblower, and his pals, to set up the President with their lies.

slipped one by the goalkeeper there senators. What's that flashing red light ?

cowardly king obama said...


Why are Pelosi and Schumer both taking selfies with the unknown "whistleblower" ?

https://twitter.com/KenSeligman/status/1223001711238885376


great picture of him trembling before Obama one-on-one before. Amazing how everyone seems to know him without knowing him. And Schiff has no idea who he is.

cowardly king obama said...

Almost looks like a coup attempt led from the top...

cowardly king obama said...


Forgot to compliment him on great pictures, nice touch with his hand around the Dem leaders. Appears he is almost someone they know quite well, instead of just being in the same room.

cowardly king obama said...

Robert Barnes
@Barnes_Law


#Schiff just now said it would have been "derelict" for Obama admin to ignore information from a foreign government of allegations against
@realDonaldTrump yet somehow claims Trump merely asking about #Biden was impeachable? #ImpeachmentTrial


And Obama/Clinton actually did do this. And payed for made up dirt...

Unfuckingbelievable.

JAMES'S FUCKING DADDY said...

Elise Stefanik
@EliseStefanik

There is one transcript that Adam Schiff refuses to release.

The Intelligence Community Inspector General transcript.

It needs to be released for the American people to read.

Why? Bc it answers ?s on the coordination & political bias of the whistleblower #ReleasetheTranscript


Why does the FAKE NEWS ignore this ??? We could get to the TRUTH

Anonymous said...

"
Eric Ciaramella, the alleged Ukraine whistleblower, was a guest of Vice President Joe Biden at a glitzy lunch in October 2016 to honor the prime minister of Italy.

Biden co-hosted the banquet with former Secretary of State John Kerry for then-Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi. Ciaramella, who is of Italian heritage, was among the U.S. officials who accepted an invitation. This week, the Washington Examiner"




Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

A major problem with allowing new witnesses in the Senate trial is that it would allow the Senate and the American people to hear the first hand testimony of the witnesses the White House kept from us.

Why is the GOP Senate running, running, running away from the first hand testimony they once kept calling for?

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

WASHINGTON - Sen. Lamar Alexander, R-Tenn., announced Thursday night he will vote against calling witnesses to the Senate impeachment trial of President Trump, likely ending the last real suspense of the trial and opening the door for a speedy conclusion Friday or Saturday.

“There is no need for more evidence to prove that the president asked Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden and his son, Hunter,” Alexander said late Thursday in a statement, after another day-long session in the Senate, the ninth day of the trial overall.

Alexander said the charges against the president – that he inappropriately pressured Ukraine to investigate the Bidens – had been “proved” by the House managers, and that the president had acted improperly.

“It was inappropriate for the president to ask a foreign leader to investigate his political opponent and to withhold United States aid to encourage that investigation,” Alexander said, adding that the president’s actions were the kind that “undermines the principle of equal justice under the law.”

“But,” he added, “the Constitution does not give the Senate the power to remove the president from office and ban him from this year’s ballot simply for actions that are inappropriate.”