There are certain things that cannot be defended!
 |
| I guess I cannot really defend my position after all! |
Now the only way anyone could possibly follow this line of reasoning is to literally do the following:
- Cut through their own skull around the entire top of their head.
- Pull the top of their own skull off the rest of their head.
- Reach in and pull out their own brain.
- Replace the top of their skull onto the top of their head.
- Read this propaganda without their brain.
The reality is that the within days of the first reported case of Covid-19 here in the United States, the President had done three specific things. The first was ban travel to and from the infected areas of the world as well as banning travel from anyone who had been to those infected places. The second was to declared a national emergency. The third was to put together the Coronavirus task force, which as we know is being led by the top epidemiologist in the world.
All this took place prior to the first confirmed US covid-19 death.
Let me emphasize that: All of this took place before even one American even died.
From that point forward, any and all information would have flowed through the task force where the top experts from all across our government would exchange information, ideas, analysis and offer advice to the President. There is literally nobody in the task force who has stated that the collective recommendations provided have been discounted, ignored, or pushed aside by Trump.
But alas... the media propaganda machines would have you believe that listening to the task force was the Trump failure!
Let me repeat that: the media propaganda machines would have you believe that listening to the task force was the Trump failure!
What? Seriously?
Well that is what EXACTLY what the NYT, WaPo, and the other propagandists are leading their gullible sheep into believing. They are suggesting that the President should have ignored the collective opinions of the experts on the task force, and rather listened ONLY to the most negative doomsday scenario.
What do they suggest he should have done?
Well apparently the propaganda machines would have you believe that he should have gone out on his own, tossed aside the task force, and ordered some sort of national shut down based on the advice of a person or two only marginally qualified to offer advice on how to best handle an infectious virus.
It's really that simple and stupid. But yet, it's being parroted as some sort of truth in the circles of idiots obviously infected with the Trump Derangement Syndrome pandemic.
But here is the kicker! When you ask them to defend the implications that he should have listened to the doomsday scenarios rather than the collective advice of the task force and then ask how they thought that would actually play out in real life. Guess what their reaction is?
They are simply... Struck speechless!
29 comments:
Ten to one says Reverend cut and paste...
Cuts and pastes the same propaganda again in this thread not understanding how stupid that makes him look!
The man Ch calls "the right person at the right time" wanted to know why we couldn't just let the virus "wash over" our country, a notion which shocked Dr. Fauci into saying,
"Mr. President, many people would die."
________
I'm struck speechless.
Those "experts" seriously expected us to declare a global pandemic and shutdown a nationwide economy using a model based on 500 passengers on a cruise ship.
ChTRuth SAYS
But here is the kicker! When you ask them to defend the implications that he should have listened to the doomsday scenarios rather than the collective advice of the task force and then ask how they thought that would actually play out in real life. Guess what their reaction is?
____________
No, Ch, that is not the question. The question is this:
When Dr. Fauci began to realize how dire the situation was becoming and began to say so, along with Dr. Birce, why did Trump continue to resist their advice until they finally had to bombard him with the evidence before he, VERY late in the game, finally admitted that it would NOT be wise, even disastrous, to open the country up for Easter?
The question is not, Why did Trump refuse to go along with the advice of experts? as you dishonestly pose it.
Rather, the question, which is supported by the evidence of all really good, objective, fact-based investigative journalists, is this:
Why did it take Trump SO DREADFULLY LONG finally to listen to the advice of the experts, after wasting SO MUCH time in the meanwhile, and FINALLY begin to act on it. FINALLY! WHEN SO MUCH TIME HAD ALREADY BEEN LOST!
That, without your spin, is what actually happened.
_______
Want proof?
See my next post, with emphasis on what is boldfaced:
READ THIS AND COMPARE IT WITH WHAT IS BOTH BOLDFACED AND CAPITALIZED IN MY THIRD POST DOWN:
A Times examination reveals the extent of President Trump’s slow response as the virus spread.
"He Could Have Seen What Was Coming:" Behind Trump’s Failure on the Virus
Five Takeaways on What Trump Knew as the Virus Spread
An examination by The New York Times reveals that there were warnings from the intelligence community, national security aides and government health officials — even as the president played down the crisis.
By Michael D. Shear April 11, 2020
Updated 5:56 p.m. ET
WASHINGTON — Top White House advisers as well as experts deep in the cabinet departments and intelligence agencies all sounded alarms and urged aggressive action to counter the threat from the coronavirus, but President Trump remained slow to respond, a detailed examination of the government’s response found.
Mr. Trump’s views were colored by long-running disputes inside the administration over how to deal with China and his own suspicion of the motivations of officials inside what he viewed as the “Deep State.” And recommendations from public health officials often competed with economic and political considerations in internal debates, slowing the path toward belated decisions.
Interviews with dozens of current and former officials and a review of emails and other documents reveal the key turning points as the Trump administration struggled to get ahead of the virus, rather than just chase it, and the internal debates that presented Mr. Trump with stark choices along the way.
Intelligence agencies and the N.S.C. produced early warnings.
National Security Council officials received the warnings in early January about the potential dangers from a new virus in Wuhan, China.
The State Department’s epidemiologist warned early that the virus could develop into a pandemic, while the National Center for Medical Intelligence, a small outpost of the Defense Intelligence Agency, reached the same conclusion. Weeks later, biodefense experts in the National Security Council office responsible for tracking pandemics looked at what was happening in Wuhan and started urging officials to think about what would be entailed in quarantining cities the size of Chicago and telling people to work at home.
But some of the earliest warnings came from national security hawks eager to blame China, and they often ran into opposition from the president’s economic advisers, who were concerned about upsetting relations with China at a time when Mr. Trump was negotiating a trade deal with Beijing.
Trump was told of a memo saying 500,000 “American souls” could die.
Peter Navarro, the president’s top trade adviser, wrote a searing memo at the end of January arguing that a pandemic caused by the virus could cost the United States dearly, producing as many as half a million deaths and trillions of dollars in economic losses.
The memo, in which Mr. Navarro argued in favor of limits on travel from China, says that in a worst-case scenario, 30 percent of the population in the United States would be infected with the virus, leading to the deaths ”on the order of a half a million American souls.”
In recent days, Mr. Trump has denied that he saw the memo at the time. But The Times report reveals that aides raised it with him at the time and that he was unhappy that Mr. Navarro had put his ideas in writing.
Three weeks were lost at a crucial time.
By the third week in February, the administration’s top public health officials had concluded that it was time to begin shifting to a more aggressive strategy to mitigate the spread of the virus, including social distancing, stay-at-home orders and school closures.
But they never got the chance to present the plan to the president. An official at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention went public with dire warnings too soon, sending stocks tumbling and angering Mr. Trump, who pushed aside his health and human services secretary and put Vice President Mike Pence in charge of the response.
It would be three more weeks before Mr. Trump finally recommended aggressive social distancing guidelines, a period when the virus spread largely unimpeded and the task force was trying to avoid alarmist messages like the one that had angered the president.
Experts in and out of government were alarmed at the failure to take swifter action.
Throughout January and February, a group of academics, government physicians and infectious diseases doctors — including Trump administration officials — expressed alarm at the ferocity of the coronavirus in a lengthy email chain they called “Red Dawn,” an inside joke based on the 1984 movie about a band of Americans trying to save the country after a foreign invasion.
The officials repeatedly expressed concern about the lack of aggressive action to deal with the virus. They assailed the lack of testing and helped bring to the government’s attention concerns about the virus being spread by people without symptoms. They also tracked the global spread of the virus. At the end of February, a top Veterans Affairs Department doctor wrote, “So we have a relatively narrow window and we are flying blind. Looks like Italy missed it.”
The White House was divided over how to respond.
The president was surrounded by divided factions in March even as it became clearer that avoiding more aggressive steps to stop the spread of the virus was not tenable.
As he prepared to give an Oval Office address on the evening of March 11, Mr. Trump continued to resist calls for social distancing, school closures and other steps that would imperil the economy. Seeking to understand the potential effects on the stock market and the economy, he reached out to prominent investors like Stephen A. Schwarzman, the chief executive of Blackstone Group, a private equity firm.
During an Oval Office meeting, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin stressed that the economy would be ravaged by such measures. Robert C. O’Brien, the national security adviser, who had been worried about the virus for weeks, sounded exasperated as he told Mr. Mnuchin that the economy would be destroyed regardless if officials did nothing.
Later, Mr. Trump reflected on that period of debate among his advisers, saying: “Everybody questioned it for a while, not everybody, but a good portion questioned it,” adding: “They said, let’s keep it open. Let’s ride it.”
___________
So they "rode it" -- far too long. And look where we are now.
AND NOW IN THE NEXT POST, THE PROOF I PROMISED:
THIS IS THE DETAILED ARTICLE THAT GIVES FACT AFTER FACT REGARDING THE PRESIDENT'S ALL TOO SLOW RESPONSE TO THE CRISIS THAT SO MANY WERE WARNING HIM WOULD BE DIRE.
NAMES AND DATES ARE GIVEN.
And when the history of this caronavirus threat is written, it will support this article far more than the propaganda being churned out by right wing obscurantist defenders of Trump.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-trump-response.html
The case is well made in that article that Trump did indeed repeatedly ignore warnings even from his own experts.
The mentally weak blame bad Orange Man
How China muzzled its Bat Woman: Beijing authorities hushed up the findings of a scientist who unlocked the genetic make-up of the coronavirus within days of the outbreak - which is vital for tests and vaccines
Shi Zhengli, a virologist known as China's 'Bat Woman', sequenced the genes of the novel coronavirus in three days but her findings were supressed
Their findings showed it was similar to SARS, a respiratory disease that sparked an epidemic in 33 countries after emerging from China in 2002
Yanyi Wang, director of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, sent an email to staff and key officials ordering them not to disclose information on the disease
When Dr. Fauci began to realize how dire the situation was becoming and began to say so, along with Dr. Birce, why did Trump continue to resist their advice until they finally had to bombard him with the evidence before he, VERY late in the game, finally admitted that it would NOT be wise, even disastrous, to open the country up for Easter?
In other words... you cannot actually answer the question.
Rather you go back to fake propaganda!
Dr Fauci has not only stated multiple times that the President has listened to the medical advice... but that HE (as in Dr Fauci) believes that the task force efforts were as good as they could have been considering ALL the information they had...
So basically Reverend..
By criticizing U.S. Response to Covid-19
You are DIRECTLY CRITICIZING FAUCI AND CALLING HIM A LIAR!!!
So Reverend "cannot justify your position"...
Explain it?
What should Trump have done differently?
How would the U.S. population and media have reacted to Federal calls for a shut down of the U.S...
WHEN THEY COULD'NT EVEN HANDLE A SIMPLE TRAVEL BAN!!!
Knowing full well that it wasn't being recommended by the task force at that time.
Btw...
Social Distancing guidelines were included in the Presidential guidelines provided by the task force to the American people.
As of March 11th (the date mentioned) - The state of Washington (where the outbreak started) was still open for business. They had cancelled events over 250 people, but everything else was business as usual.
As a matter of fact, I flew into Seattle on the Friday the 13th, and we went down to Pikes place, went out to dinner twice, went to her Lash appointment where I went to a small Coffee House where a live three piece band was playing.
It was that very next week that the Governor of Washington called for a shut down of everything. It was several days later when Governor Cuomo declared his state shut down.
I think you need to get it through your thick skull that our Federal Government has no authority to call for a National Shut Down and that Americans would have had a complete and total FIT had Trump tried to do something that unconstitutional prior to even the hottest of hot spots deciding for themselves to close businesses.
The armchair quarterbacking from people with 20-20 hindsight is nothing more than partisan propaganda...
Which is why you simply cannot help yourself from cutting and pasting the same nonsense over and over?
Why? because 2 million people are not going to die!
It's only going to be a fraction!
America did a good if not spectacular job!
If this same response had come from Obama or Clinton they would be heroes right now as judged by these same people and I have no doubt that they would have been goats in the minds of many conservatives for the opposite reasons (mainly killing the economy).
but now... since we DID do such a spectacular job that defied all of the expert models and expert opinions (as well as the non-expert the sky is falling media)...
You cannot just give credit where credit is due...
You have to literally make shit up to criticize the President.
Because you didn't get the amount of deaths you needed to bring him down.
You are a sad angry man, Reverend believes Fauci is a bald face liar!
I feel sorry for you...
NYTimes, Defends Biden against sexual "attacks" by, wait for it "some women".
And again, their it is, the Bedrock of Liberalism.
Predicted it.
"C.H. TruthApril 12, 2020 at 11:08 AM
Ten to one says Reverend cut and paste...
Cuts and pastes the same propaganda again in this thread not understanding how stupid that makes him look!"
The man Ch calls "the right person at the right time" wanted to know why we couldn't just let the virus "wash over" our country, a notion which shocked Dr. Fauci into saying,
"Mr. President, many people would die."
Well in real life Dr Fauci would know that this is called herd immunity and in real life it would have been given some serious consideration.
In real life, entire countries (such as Sweden) are using the herd immunity model which provides people with the freedom and responsibility to take normal precautions... rather than shut them down.
The idea is that more people "will die" up front, but that it will help mitigate the second wave (which can often times be more deadly).
This is real life though..
In liberal propaganda life Fauci would be so confused by the simple question that he would literally look at the President like he was an idiot. Because in propaganda life, Fauci would not have understood what herd mentality was, and therefor would have chastised the President because of his own ignorance.
You know... in liberal propaganda life... Fauci is only as smart as the journalist writing about him and in liberal propaganda life Fauci is a liar who doesn't tell the truth when asked.
But in real life... I trust the Fauci gave consideration to every possible solution and scenario because that is what medical experts do. I also trust in real life that Fauci is NOT a bald face liar who "covers" for the President and praises him out of some sense of misguided loyalty.
No, I do not believe Fauci is a bald faced liar.
You are.
Listen to him here admit that it would have been better if Trump had listened and responded earlier:
________
Fauci: Earlier social distancing measures 'obviously' would have saved more lives
NBC News
ALLAN SMITH Apr 12th 2020 11:45AM
Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious diseases expert, said Sunday that earlier efforts to stop the spread of coronavirus in the U.S. "obviously" could have saved lives but top health officials faced "a lot of pushback about shutting things down."
Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, was responding on CNN's "State of the Union" to a New York Times report stating that President Donald Trump's top public health officials concluded by the third week of February that they should recommend to the president a new approach to COVID-19, which included social distancing steps. But, according to The Times, the White House "focused instead on messaging and crucial additional weeks went by before their views were reluctantly accepted by the president — time when the virus spread largely unimpeded."
"We look at it from a pure health standpoint," Fauci told CNN. "We make a recommendation. Often, the recommendation is taken. Sometimes, it's not. But ... it is what it is. We are where we are right now."
"Again, it's the 'what would have, what could have'," Fauci added when asked if lives could've been spared had social distancing been implemented weeks earlier. "It's very difficult to go back and say that. I mean, obviously, you could logically say, that if you had a process that was ongoing, and you started mitigation earlier, you could have saved lives. Obviously, no one is going to deny that. But what goes into those kinds of decisions is complicated."
Fauci continued that "obviously," if things were shut down "right from the very beginning, it may have been a little bit different."
"But there was a lot of pushback about shutting things down back then," Fauci said.
_________
He's telling the truth, Ch, as the NY Times article also does, and as you do not.
A little reluctantly, he told the truth. But he did tell the truth.
Union Thug Update.
"The 39 million N95 masks the Service Employees International Union announced it had discovered turned out to be an elaborate scheme, according to the FBI."
"Again, it's the 'what would have, what could have'," Fauci added when asked if lives could've been spared had social distancing been implemented weeks earlier. "It's very difficult to go back and say that. I mean, obviously, you could logically say, that if you had a process that was ongoing, and you started mitigation earlier, you could have saved lives. Obviously, no one is going to deny that. But what goes into those kinds of decisions is complicated."
Well who is going to disagree with that?
But Fauci is being very careful in NOT stating that HE personally called for any sort of complete shut down of the country "weeks earlier" as is being implied here.
Let's be clear... the idea of "social distancing is not the same thing as "shutting down the country". Fauci was put in charge of the medical side of this on January 29th. We started social distancing and mitigation efforts almost immediately after that.
In fact.. the "Again, it's the 'what would have, what could have', is a pretty straight forward shot at those who are criticizing their response. He is basically saying that hindsight is 20-20 and that things are...
more complicated...
than idiot journalist understand!
Antimalarial drug cleared at Trump’s request arrives from India as US toll overtakes Italy’s
Crates of Hydroxychloroquine covered in blue protective wrapping were offloaded from a cargo flight from India at the Newark international airport in New Jersey, US.
Please note the plane’s tail. These are our allies China is not, fuckem
Let's be clear... the idea of "social distancing is not the same thing as "shutting down the country". Fauci was put in charge of the medical side of this on January 29th. We started social distancing and mitigation efforts almost immediately after that.
I stand corrected. The guidelines were talked about. But the official documents came out in March (along with a video about social distancing from Dr Fauci and Dr Birx that came out on March 16).
This is "about" the same time that measures were being taken in Washington state (where it had started). At the time Washington shut down, approximately 50 Americans had died and a good portion was from the cruise ship and a Seattle nursing home.
So the question being asked...
Is should we have implemented a national social distancing, recommended closing down sporting events, concerts, school events, etc...
prior to a single American having been killed by Corona virus?
Even if they had been talking about it in mid-February we had only 12 known cases on February 15th. February 29th was the first known US casualty of Covid 19th.
There is no way the American public (and American media) would have reacted positively to a Federal demand of any sort, considering the reaction we had to a simple travel ban.
I stand by my original statement.
There would have been no credibility for any President to call for such measures at a time when only a handful of known cases existed and prior to a single US person being killed by a virus.
JamesNewLeaf
Why did you stop posting new deaths?
Nursing Home Deaths Surge
April 12, 2020 at 1:55 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard
“More than 2,600 deaths nationwide have been linked to coronavirus outbreaks in nursing homes and long-term care facilities, an alarming rise in just the past two weeks,” the AP reports.
_____________
Fauci Admits Earlier Efforts Would Have Saved Lives
April 12, 2020 at 1:59 pm EDT By Taegan Goddards
Dr. Anthony Fauci told CNN that calls to implement life-saving social distancing measures faced “a lot of pushback” early in the US coronavirus outbreak.
Said Fauci: “I mean, obviously, you could logically say that if you had a process that was ongoing and you started mitigation earlier, you could have saved lives.”
He added: “Obviously, no one is going to deny that. But what goes into those decisions is complicated.”
_____________
A Mayor Talks Sense
“I fear, if we open up too early, and we have not sufficiently made that health recovery and cracked the back of this virus, that we could be pouring gasoline on the fire, even inadvertently.”
— New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy (D), quoted by Politico.
__________
More sense:
Biden’s Plan to Safely Reopen America
April 12, 2020 at 2:09 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard
Joe Biden writing in the New York Times:
“Make no mistake: An effective plan to beat the virus is the ultimate answer to how we get our economy back on track. So we should stop thinking of the health and economic responses as separate. They are not.”
Ch says:
Let's be clear... the idea of "social distancing is not the same thing as "shutting down the country".
___________
Actually, it is. A realistic, thoroughgoing, effective implementation of "social distancing" necessitates shutting down both the country and the economy.
Otherwise, it would not have been so strongly resisted for so long by Trump.
You’re an idiot, pederast
It is not the same
There shouldn't be anyone...
Not one single solitary person...
intellectually dishonest enough to believe that the United States of America (as a country) would have shut down all essential business, schools, sporting events, and everything else...
When we had 12 reported cases of a virus that was still two weeks away from killing anyone here in the United States... and had not killed a single person ANYWHERE outside of China.
I mean... I get that hindsight is 20-20.
But if there are really Americans biased and partisan enough to believe that sort of nonsense... well then there really is no real hope for this country moving forward.
We can dispense with the idea that we are informed, smart, educated and all that... and just live with the fact that Politics pulls everyone around by their noses.
But if there are really Americans biased and partisan enough to believe that sort of nonsense... well then there really is no real hope for this country moving forward.
We can dispense with the idea that we are informed, smart, educated and all that... and just live with the fact that Politics pulls everyone around by their noses.
i came to this conclusion the day trump was inaugurated.
Don't be pulled about by your noses. Instead, look for the hard, simple facts in this:
____________
AXIOS:
10 times Trump and his administration
were warned about coronavirus
President Trump's tone on the coronavirus pandemic has dramatically shifted in the last month as the illness has swept across the U.S., which has now reported more confirmed cases than any country in the world.
Why it matters:
Reporting from Axios,
the New York Times,
Washington Post,
AP
and other media outlets has revealed that Trump and his administration were repeatedly WARNED about the threat that the virus could pose to American lives and the economy. Earlier action could have curbed the spread.
The state of play:
The first case of COVID-19 reached the U.S. on Jan. 15.
WARNING
The World Health Organization declared it a pandemic on March 11.
Trump declared the U.S. outbreak a national emergency on March 13.
WARNING
On Jan. 18, Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar first briefed Trump on the threat of the virus in a phone call, the New York Times reports.
Trump made his first public comments about the virus on Jan. 22, saying he was not concerned about a pandemic and that "we have it totally under control."
WARNING
On Jan. 27, White House aides met with then-acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney to try to get senior officials to take the virus threat more seriously, the Washington Post reports. Joe Grogan, the head of the White House Domestic Policy Council, warned it could cost Trump his re-election.
WARNING
On Jan. 29, economic adviser Peter Navarro warned the White House in a memo addressed to the National Security Council that COVID-19 could take more than half a million American lives and cause nearly $6 trillion in economic damage.
WARNING
On Jan. 30, Azar warned Trump in a subsequent call that the virus could become a pandemic and that China should be criticized for its lack of transparency, per the Times. Trump dismissed Azar as alarmist and rejected the idea of criticizing China.
WARNING
Also on Jan. 30, the World Health Organization declared the coronavirus a global health emergency. WHO has only done so five times since gaining that power in 2005.
WARNING
On Feb. 5, senators urged the administration in a briefing to take the virus more seriously and asked if additional funds were necessary. The administration made no requests at the time for emergency funding.
On Feb. 14, a memo was drafted by health officials in coordination with the National Security Council that recommended the targeted use of "quarantine and isolation measures," per the Times. Officials planned to present Trump with the memo when he returned from India on Feb. 25, but the meeting was canceled.
WARNING
On Feb. 21, the White House coronavirus task force conducted a mock exercise of the pandemic. The group concluded that the U.S. would need to implement aggressive social distancing, even if it caused mass disruption to the economy and American lives, per the Times.
WARNING On Feb. 23, Navarro doubled down on his warnings in another memo, this time addressed to the president, stating that up to 2 million Americans could die of the virus.
WARNING
On Feb. 25, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases Nancy Messonnier publicly warned of the virus threat and said "we need to be preparing for significant disruption in our lives.”
----Trump reportedly called Azar fuming that Messonnier had scared people unnecessarily and caused the stock market to plummet, per the Times.
____________
THE OTHER SIDE: Trump has pointed to his decisions to restrict travel from China in early February and establish the White House coronavirus task force on Jan. 29 as signs that he was serious about the threat early on. White House spokesperson Judd Deere said in a statement:
"While the media and Democrats refused to seriously acknowledge this virus in January and February, President Trump took bold action to protect Americans and unleash the full power of the federal government to curb the spread of the virus, expand testing capacities and expedite vaccine development even when we had no true idea the level of transmission or asymptomatic spread."
The bottom line:
Anthony Fauci said on CNN's "State of the Union" Sunday that "no one is going to deny" that more lives could have been saved if the Trump administration had implemented social distancing guidelines earlier on.
Post a Comment