Sunday, December 27, 2020

So what is the motivation?

Minnesota lawmakers say coronavirus deaths could be inflated by 40% after reviewing death certificates 

State Rep. Mary Franson and state Sen. Scott Jensen released a video last week revealing that after reviewing thousands of death certificates in the state, 40% did not have COVID-19 as the underlying cause of death.
“I have other examples where COVID isn’t the underlying cause of death, where we have a fall. Another example is we have a freshwater drowning. We have dementia. We have a stroke and multiorgan failure,” Franson said in the video.
She added that in one case, a person who was ejected from a car was “counted as a COVID death” because the virus was in his system.
Franson said she and a team reviewed 2,800 “death certificate data points” and found that about 800 of them did not have the virus as the underlying cause of death.

I am not sure where they get the 40% number from, as 800 out of 2800 is about 29% (not 40%) - but the underlying question remains. Why are freshwater drownings, car accidents, or strokes (heart failure) being listed as a Covid death?  Even if we reduced the number of deaths by 29% - that accounts for nearly 100,000 of our current national deaths not actually being Covid deaths. That means we are overstating everything (including the casualty percentages) by around that amount. 

Certainly there is financial incentive for Hospitals to list Covid on a death certificate. Medicare, Medicaid and many private insurers provide larger payments for treatments associated with Covid (even if the treatment is the same). While that might explain why there are cardiac deaths or heart related deaths with people who have those underlying conditions that are chalked up to Covid, it doesn't explain why a drowning, a car accident, or a sudden stroke would be listed (when Covid wasn't listed as the cause of death). 

This is certain to be a thing "after" the Covid hysterics dies down. Someday, somehow, those who want to know the truth will be allowed to see it. Right now, we are being snookered, lied too, mislead, and controlled by the people we elect to serve the population... and even by those appointed to run point on these things. 

And no... copping to lies after the fact does not make a liar any more honest.


32 comments:

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

So what indeed IS the motivation--
for you to keep on and on trying to downplay the seriousness of this pandemic?

Is it because The Donald foolishly went on early record saying stupid and completely erroneous and horribly dangerous things about it?

Is it because you want to claim that the many people who refused to wear masks and/or socially distance at White House parties even after it had become clear how dangerous the virus
could be, were not really all that wrong about it? (They were wrong, as quite a few found out.)

Is it because you yourself want to defend yourself because you too in the early days made fun of people whom you and your wife personally encountered who were regarding the virus as a very serious matter while you were just downplaying it as little more than another form of the typical flu?

Could those be some of the reasons?

C.H. Truth said...

Well perhaps Reverend...

It's not about any politics at all. Perhaps it's about just allowing the general public to see the fucking facts without the politics. When you place car accident and drowning victims in with the Covid deaths...

Then we are no longer looking at facts.

We are looking at politics disguised as facts?


You know like the FACT that it's way more dangerous to live in California right now with all of their strict draconian lockdowns than it is to live in Florida where people are still free to go to lunch or dinner or go shopping in a store. Isn't it funny how New York, Illinois, and a bunch of other states are suddenly more dangerous than Florida and even Texas (based on CDC infection numbers).


Why are you sooooo afraid of the numbers and an honest assessment of how those numbers stack up? Why is your side the ones who always argue against empirical evidence with anecdotal studies and opinions?

Why do you continue to not want people to look behind the curtain and see the facts for themselves?

Not that it would matter to you... you simply listen and follow.

C.H. Truth said...

And Reverend...

Maybe you can answer (not to me or Roger, but to yourself) - Why Roger brings up being on a steroid drug as a require medication, why he blames that drug for his behavior. Why he admits that Lydia "never pressed charges" -- but then suggests that there was no threats or violence of any sort?

Would someone who was not threatening or violent in anyway have to justify those non-actions with the fact that they were on drugs or suggest that "not pressing charges" absolves them of any sort of wrong doing?


This is exactly the sort of cognitive dissonance that comes with "trusting someone" entirely because you agree with their politics. As a matter of principles we all know who is who around here and who has been up to what. Objectively the only thing Roger "brings to the table" for you is his mutual hatred and obsessive addiction to hating Trump.

btw.... you have Roger's name and approximate age. You know he lives in California (there are seven people with his name in that state, btw...) and many things are a matter of public record. Perhaps you should look into it for yourself to know for sure what sort of issues Roger has had in that state.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Au contraire,
I'm all for undistorted, FACTUAL statistics.

I, for one, would never have removed the sidebar comparing deaths per million in states with Republican governors as vs states with Democratic governors.

You did that, as soon as the two began to reveal the error of your earlier prediction that the numbers in the one would continue to far outstrip the numbers in the other.

I would not have done that. You did.

That's how dishonest you are with "empirical evidence" and "facts."

Even now, I dare you to provide that empirical, factual information in your sidebar.

Caliphate4vr said...

Hey stupid including car wrecks,suicides, drownings as Covid deaths is not empirical evidence.

The numbers are worthless.

Damn you’re dumb

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

I have long been wondering why Scott loves the President. Trump is not a conservative. He's a self centered person.

I have seen a lot of true conservatives break away from the President, because of his trust in Vladimir Putin and his Charlottesville comments.

But you betrayed your own principles.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

1:49
You are despicable.

I will not even reply to your 1:49 here.

If I reply to it at all, and I may not, it will be in the next thread down where that matter has already been mentioned and I have said about all I wish to say about it.

Roger and I have emailed back and forth in the past and also communicated a little on Facebook. I would not hesitate to talk with him about those difficulties, but I choose not to. Though it is true I usually agree with him politically, I accept the fact that he admits he behaved badly with regard to his marriage, and I believe him when he says he was never physically violent.

You claim in your sidebar to discourage personal attacks on this blog, but look at how you yourself keep engaging in it with regard to him -- and me.

Nor do you discourage others from doing that.

C.H. Truth said...

Well Reverend...

I still "have" that statistic... and for the record, Blue States still lead Red states by 1031/million to 965/million. It really has not been changing all that much, other than to say that both sides are "going up".

The fact it is not on my sidebar is red herring.

My point with all of that (and you still appear to be missing it) is that there is no empirical evidence (in regards to those numbers) to prove that lock downs or stricter measures reduce the amount of casualties from Covid.

Had that been your general takeaway from that, rather than the obsessive demand that it's not as bad as it used to be, then perhaps it would still be useful. But you don't quite seem get how these numbers will change as the overall numbers increase. The original rash of deaths in New York, New Jersey were going to be disproportionate when there were only 60,000 deaths versus 320,000 deaths. But there are still about 30,000 more deaths in blue states than red states (which is still - as shown earlier - higher by percentage of population).

At this point the virus has been all over the country with one area or another pretty much at one time or another leading the pack. Right now it is California, New Mexico, and some of the sunbelt states that were not part of the first wave. We are still seeing great lake and east coast issues, but the Dakotas, and those upper midwest have now dipped down to some of the lowest levels in the country (in spite of still no lock down or mandate in South Dakota and other states up in that area).


As far as Roger... it's not a personal attack to repeat his own assertions that "he" has made here on the blog. If he doesn't want people talking about his divorce or his issues with his ex-wife or his issues with steroid drugs or whatever issues he has, then he shouldn't be bringing up this stuff here. He brought up pretty much everything we talk about.

If he just left his continued attacks at calling me "crazy" and such, then perhaps we wouldn't have to bring up the reality of who really is having emotional and other mental health issues. I am perfectly sane and live a perfectly normal and productive and successful life. The fact that I hold different views about politics does not make "me" crazy any more than it makes "you" crazy.

Roger brings the personal to the blog. Perhaps if he simply argued politics, policy and talked about the issues... then nobody would attack him personally (well almost nobody).

anonymous said...

Roger brings the personal to the blog.


He does so on a rare basis Lil Schitty.....You and the goat fucker on the other hand constantly harangue Roger about his FB page and what is there.....As the James has said succinctly, you are despicable with your hypocrisy........You want to talk about losers....look in the mirror with your failed marriage and chid bride......BWAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! Too bad you are not mature enough to realize what an insignificant prick you can be, but that would take you to have an introspective look into your being.....you are more like trump than not when it comes to empathy!!!!!

C.H. Truth said...

Gee Denny...

Isn't your entire rant a personal attack?

BWAAAAAA!!!

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Well, Ch, all I can say is you were just SO, SO, SO happy to put up those empirical, statistical fact numbers and BRAG ABOUT THEM as long as states with Dem governors were having deaths per million at four times, three times and twice the rate of deaths per million in states with Rep governors, but when the numbers began to get ever closer and closer to each other (as they continue to do), you stopped.

And that in spite of the fact that states with Dem governors have the larger cities with the most densely packed populations.

Myballs said...

The fact that we know almost everything about Roger is evidence enough that he frequently discusses his personal life here.

Caliphate4vr said...

Anonymous Myballs said...
The fact that we know almost everything about Roger is evidence enough that he frequently discusses his personal life here.


Exactly..

And Fatty told everyone within range that his daughter had a “heavy flow” AKA rotten snatch, why in the hell would anyone disclose this kind of stuff on a blog?

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

SO WHAT IS THE MOTIVATION?

Trump Trying to Inflict Pain on Congress
4:27 pm EST
A source briefed by White House officials on the relief bill told the Washington Post, President Trump — who has been frustrated by his election loss and the fallout from the coronavirus pandemic — is “just angry at everybody and wants to inflict as much pain on Congress as possible.”

TRUMP IS JUST FURIOUS THAT ALL THE COURTS AND JUDGES (INCLUDING THE SUPREME COURT) AND REPUBLICAN POLITICIANS AND GREAT, MASSIVE NUMBERS OF THE PUBLIC ARE NOT LEAPING TO THEIR FEET AND SAYING, "YOU WON THE ELECTION!"

anonymous said...

And Fatty told everyone within range that his daughter had a “heavy flow



NEVER SAID THAT YOU FRAUD.....Yes we were discussing other uses of the pill and you did not know it was used for the condition she had.......BWAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! Only dumb fucks like you and ballz have lives so miserable you enjoy the travails of there like little old ladies!!!!!!!!!!! Must be wonderful to be a perfect asshole!!!!!!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!

Caliphate4vr said...

Actually you are wrong again fatman, you were glad Obunghole care allowed for the “slacker rule” keeping kids on their parents plans to 26 because she had a a prex “rotten snatch”

You’re old, feeble and weak of mind

C.H. Truth said...

One of the many problems is Roger appear to spend most of his time looking to see if "anyone" else in the entire world has also written about the same subject as me and then demands that I am plagiarizing or copying someone else.

Why this has become soooo important to him, I have no idea. Or why he is soooo obsessed with trying to demand I am following someone else or plagiarizing things is beyond me. But the obsession is not healthy.


He also demands that "because" someone else might hold a similar view, that means that I must be "in line" with that view because of someone else. In his mind, the statistical analysis that I have been doing is somehow about "Trump" saying that the election is rigged. One literally has nothing to do with the other.


When about 100-150 million Americans or more agree to that viewpoint (of massive election fraud) to some degree or the other. The entire 100-150 million Americans who question the election results are no more or less following Trump's rhetoric as those who say there was no fraud are following Biden's rhetoric.

At the end, the truth probably (as it usually does) lie somewhere in the middle. I can accept that, but most others seem to demand out and out 100% denial of all other views than the idea that there was "no fraud" and "no tampering".


The most frustrating part is that I have stated over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over that election lawsuits were never going to work (for a variety of reasons that I spent explaining to deaf minds) and that some still demand that election lawsuits failing (as they nearly always do) somehow proves that statistical anomalies or known fraud (that has already been prosecuted in some cases) doesn't exist.

Meanwhile... every fucking thread is spammed with cut and pastes from sites I can go read myself (if I was so inclinded to do so) and now they come in bold font (as if otherwise people don't see them).


So perhaps this is the beginning of the end for this blog. It's pretty much as dysfunctional as it could possibly be. There seems little point in going on.

When even something as light as the Sunday Funnies has to become about certain people leveling wildly irrationally angry accusations of "plagiarism" of the same damned memes that everyone and their brother are using. With fuck you and demands that I must be "crazy" for doing so.

Perhaps the time has come...

Caliphate4vr said...

And BTW stupid you just admitted you told the blog your daughter had heavy menstruation issues.

WTF?

anonymous said...

Blogger C.H. Truth said...
One of the many problems is Roger appear to spend most



BWAAAAAAAAA!!!! And you waste a whole lot of time worrying about what Roger says because he usually gets the best of you!!!!!!!! The great waste of time and money were all the frivolous election lawsuits which proved one thing....trump is a dumb fat sore loser just like you!!!!!! Something as light as the sunday funnies should be sourced which you did not do.....Sorry sport you spend a lot of time writing another excuse blaming others for your personal fuck ups.....!!!!!!

C.H. Truth said...

And that in spite of the fact that states with Dem governors have the larger cities with the most densely packed populations.

Well Sweden has one of the most densely populated countries in the world with 92% of it's citizens living in "urban" areas... yet I don't see anyone giving them a break because most of their populations live in cities?

Most just dishonestly take their population and divide it by the amount of land (as if people are just uniformly spread out between the cities and uninhabitable mountain ranges and such) to declare a low population density.

which in reality is a total crock.


But here is the reality, Reverend...

Population densities shouldn't matter... not if mask wearing and social distancing works. If mask wearing and social distancing worked, then the rate of the virus spread would "always" be highest in areas where there is no mandates or regulations or lock downs. And the lowest rate of virus spreading would "always" occur in states and cities where the mandates and lock downs are the strictest.

But that's not how it has been working. It seems to move from one portion of the country to the next. It doesn't appear to skip the states with draconian mandates, nor does it particularly ravage the states that are not on lockdown.

Florida has one of the highest populations, largest metro areas in the country, more vulnerable senior citizens, and they have not had major lock downs or mask mandates.

By all accounts, they should be at the top of the heap. Yet, there they sit at number 21 out of 50 states, running lower than the average of United States as a whole.

C.H. Truth said...

Good Rant Denny!

BWAAAAAAAA is the only appropriate response!

C.H. Truth said...

Oh and Reverend...

Why does it bother you that I replaced the red state to blue state comparison with the death by age?

Does the empirical very real statistical solid real life data evidence that less than 8000 people in total under the age of 45 have died so far upset you because you realize that locking down "everyone" was probably a bad idea?

Does it bother you to know that 2.7% of the death have occurred with the people most drastically affected by lockdowns and mandates... while over 80% of the deaths are occurring with people who are largely retired and could have been isolated without having to lock down everyone else?


Why does it bother you that I put up a much more relevant Covid statistic to replace the one that obviously doesn't matter (because you continue to argue that it doesn't).

anonymous said...

to 26 because she had a a prex “rotten snatch”


BWAAAAAAAA!!!!!! You never can be honest can you UGA boy.....her pre ex were fibroids but why let facts get in the way of you being a stupid fuck with a dysfunctional family and life!!!!!!! BWAAAAAAPAAAAAA!!!!! At the time your position was refusal to acknowledge your own kids staying on your policy and told me to mind my own business like the tough guy you are!!!!!!!! Some father you are!!!!!!

Caliphate4vr said...

At the time your position was refusal to acknowledge your own kids staying on your policy and told me to mind my own business like the tough guy you are!!!!!!!! Some father you are!!!!!!

I have no idea what in the fuck that is, means or says.

My kids are still on my policy. There was a discussion of deductibles and HSA’s which flew way over your head than and still does

anonymous said...

data evidence that less than 8000 people in total under the age of 45


ONLY 8 K DEAD IS A GREAT STATISITC FOR COLD HEARTED ASSHOLES LIKE YOU!!!!!1 Unfortunately the other 330 k families might think differently.....Very telling you have no respect for the living just like trump and his incompetent leadership !!!!!! Sad you have little empathy for the tragedy of trump and all those lives cut short......remember sport, you are close to the magic age you find not worth saving!!!!!!!! BWAAAAAAAAA!!!

anonymous said...

I have no idea what in the fuck that is, means or says.


Of course you don't UGA boy....convenient memory is your MO!!!!!!! But thats ok as long as you think you are right.....Sad how alcohol robs one of there memory!!!!!!!! BWAAAAAAAAAA

Caliphate4vr said...

You made it up stupid! It didn’t happen

The sugar and your diet have starved your brain of blood.

anonymous said...

Can't help your alcohol soaked mind, mouth of the south......Like I said before.....believe whatever you want......funny your recollection of my kids pre ex but you cannot remember you told me to mind my own business.....no problem sport, I don't trust or believe anything you say......BWAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

Caliphate4vr said...

Fatman it is you whom many posters, multiple times per week, point out your inability to follow a thread

What you think happened, didn’t

Sorry fatty, you lose again

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

1 of every 17 people in the U.S. has been infected, and 1 in 1,000 has died. Yet the worst may lie ahead.

And you are worried about the covid-19 count is a Democratic hoax!

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The paper pusher knows more than medical expert who are called Doctors, who have a decade of education and decades of experience on masking and social distancing.

" If mask wearing and social distancing worked, then the rate of the virus spread would "always" be highest in areas where there is no mandates or regulations or lock downs. And the lowest rate of virus spreading would "always" occur in states and cities where the mandates and lock downs are the strictest."

There are dozens of reasons for the level of infection. His spreadsheet ignores medical science.