Words are a powerful thing, as any propagandist will tell you!
After months of "mostly peaceful protests" involving black lives matter and antifa groups, apparently we now had an "insurrection". The question becomes whether or not the wording is actually reflective of the actions.
To be clear, the mostly peaceful protests involved dozens of deaths, injuries to hundreds of police officers, billions of dollars in damages, more felonies committed than can be counted, and hundred of arrests. We had frontal attacks on police and federal law enforcement with armed and armored antifa acting in what was almost military coordination. We even had portions of Capital Hill taken over and held by armed citizens. Of course, what they did is apparently less important than the wording used to describe those actions.
But on January 6th we had what has been described as an armed insurrection from violent rioters who apparently wanted to overtake the Federal government. So far, we have had approximately 120 people arrested according to media reports. Although the official website from the DOJ only lists charges for approximately 60.
Of those, two were arrested for charges related to weapons.. One person was charged with having weapons "readily assessable" at the capital grounds while another was charged with possession of an unregistered firearm and carrying without a license. Two people (mother and son) were charged with conspiracy civil disorder because their actions were preplanned and they came together. Three people have been charged with theft of government property. Five others were charged with some form or resisting arrest or assault of an officer. One might suspect that with a dead police officer involved that some charge(s) of homicide should be coming eventually, or at least one would hope.
The bulk of the remaining charges have been related to 40 U.S. Code § 5109 - which is specific to actions that take place at the nation's capital. For now, most of the charges have been akin illegal or violent entry, trespassing, and disorderly conduct, albeit with slightly different wording. These are basically misdemeanor charges that generally result in fines, but could also result in jail time of no more than six months.
But as of today, nobody has been charged with Seditious Conspiracy, Insurrection, or any sort of charges of Rebellion. Those are real charges that could be brought if certain legal experts are correct, but may be difficult to prove if other legal experts are to be believed. Obviously charges can be amended and others could be arrested. But if recent DOJ statements can be taken at face value, they seem less inclined than they were in the immediate aftermath to suggest that they have any hard evidence that any of the people arrested were engaged in a planned coup to take over the United States government.
Could this change, when the Biden administration steps into power? Perhaps. I would think there will be a lot of pressure from the left for the Biden administration to push prosecutors to make a case that is more in line with the narrative that they are delivering. Sort of hard to justify an impeachment of a President for inciting an insurrection, if the DOJ is not legally making the claim that the riot was actually an insurrection.
But whether or not such a case could be made is a completely different story. More to the point, the actual people who are mostly responsible for much of the pre-riot social media buzz seem to fit the mold of anarchists and general instigators, more than they do average everyday Trump supporters. Obviously it would not hold the same political clout to charge these people (several of whom have been tied to multiple riots over the past year) as it would to be able to charge a bunch of average everyday Trump supporters. In fact, that actually might raise questions that certain people will not want to answer for.
87 comments:
Not only should they be charged, but trump should also be charged with leading those idiots to the capital......How many of the accused have claimed trump told them to do it???????? I guess the courts will hear that testimony and then determine they are guilty!!!!!!!!!
According to the law, yes.
Political agenda is not relevant
They invaded the Capitol Building of one of the three branches of government.
Sedition.
Scott, go back to 1995 when a right wing nutcase bombed the federal building in Oklahoma City
Right wing terrorism is the greatest threat of this time, because of the rhetoric of Donald Trump.
LOL.
it was the equivalent of an old fashioned college panty raid.
charge them with trespass, fine them $50, and let's be on our way.
just once i'd like to see democrats act like something OTHER than childish assholes.
Blogger Roger Amick said...
Scott, go back to 1995 when a right wing nutcase bombed the federal building in Oklahoma City
Right wing terrorism is the greatest threat of this time, because of the rhetoric of Donald Trump.
says the alky who openly cheered the actions of one James Hodgkinson, Bernie bro and Ralph 'strap-on' Maddow fan extraordinaire.
They invaded the Capitol Building of one of the three branches of government. Sedition
Does this sound like it equates to what actually happened:
(2) Violent entry and disorderly conduct.—An individual or group of individuals may not willfully and knowingly—
- (A) enter or remain on the floor of either House of Congress or in any cloakroom or lobby adjacent to that floor, in the Rayburn Room of the House of Representatives, or in the Marble Room of the Senate, unless authorized to do so pursuant to rules adopted, or an authorization given, by that House;
- (B) enter or remain in the gallery of either House of Congress in violation of rules governing admission to the gallery adopted by that House or pursuant to an authorization given by that House;
- (C) with the intent to disrupt the orderly conduct of official business, enter or remain in a room in any of the Capitol Buildings set aside or designated for the use of—
- - (i)either House of Congress or a Member, committee, officer, or employee of Congress, or either House of Congress; or
- - (ii)the Library of Congress;
Roger, you are this blogs Dunce.
I am fully aware what Socialism is, you don't.
Your ilk always stop short of the full definition.
"a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism "
Now , you are fully informed, again.
Sorry missed part of it
(D)utter loud, threatening, or abusive language, or engage in disorderly or disruptive conduct, at any place in the Grounds or in any of the Capitol Buildings with the intent to impede, disrupt, or disturb the orderly conduct of a session of Congress or either House of Congress, or the orderly conduct in that building of a hearing before, or any deliberations of, a committee of Congress or either House of Congress;
(E) obstruct, or impede passage through or within, the Grounds or any of the Capitol Buildings;
(F) engage in an act of physical violence in the Grounds or any of the Capitol Buildings; or
(G) parade, demonstrate, or picket in any of the Capitol Buildings.
Does this sound like it equates to what actually happened:
by that list what actually happened is trespassing and disorderly conduct.
the "violent" issue is subjective. they stayed within the velvet ropes for chrissakes. hardly violent. and the guy who entered Peloshee's office didn't even raid her liquor cabinet.
i'm just disappointed that the guy didn't hop up onto her desk and drop a nice steaming coil. what a missed opportunity THAT was.
Incitement violence is not protected by the first amendment.
Trump’s design to whip up hysteria was long in the making. The latest iteration started with express requests that his followers come to Washington, D.C. on January 6, 2021 for a “big protest” premised on the false claim that the election was stolen. His now-famous December 19 tweet emphasized a desire for the day’s events to go beyond a rally and speechifying: “Be there, will be wild!”[1]
In the days leading up to the attack on the Capitol, Trump continued with his incitement campaign by making it clear, in a Tweet on January 5, that he and his followers “[wouldn’t] stand for a landslide election victory to be stolen.” He intoned that they simply weren’t going to allow the Democrats and weak Republicans to silence their voices and that the upcoming gathering was going to be a march “to Save America” and to block Joe Biden’s ascension to the presidency.
When his followers did show up on the Mall in large numbers on January 6, 2021, Trump repeatedly used the language of criminal incitement to imminent lawlessness. Stoking the false flames of a “stolen election” and “an illegitimate president,” Trump exhorted his followers that they must “fight,” “stop the steal,” and declared, “We will never give up, we will never concede. It doesn’t happen. You don’t concede when there’s theft involved.”
Trump’s call to immediate action was clear and unequivocal: “And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.” He yelled that the crowd must “fight harder” and not be like the Republicans who in his words are “constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back.”
Much akin to the proscription articulated by Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes on falsely yelling fire in a crowded theater, Trump then called for action based on the imagined necessity of stopping the “emboldened radical Democrats” from stealing “their” election victory, a theft achieved through what he called a “criminal enterprise.” He urged the large crowd – “warriors” and “patriots,” as he called them – to march up the National Mall to the Capitol in order to “give our Republicans the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.”
There was nothing very subtle or abstract about the president’s rhetoric. The incensed crowd members needed to “show strength” because you can “never take back our country with weakness.” Trump thus underscored the theme espoused moments earlier by his enabler lawyer Rudy Giuliani that it was time to have “trial by combat.”
As Trump spoke of “fighting like hell,” rioters had already begun to clash with police at the Capitol. As he concluded, Trump repeated his call to march on the Capitol – and the crowd obliged.
When his followers did show up on the Mall in large numbers on January 6, 2021, Trump repeatedly used the language of criminal incitement to imminent lawlessness.
what partisan hack moron did you steal this from alky?
those who actually READ Trump's Jan. 6 speech are able to comprehend the fact that there was NO incitement to riot language in it.
those who claim that there was such language are the same assholes who insist upon lying about Trump's "good people on both sides" comments.
you're a pathological liar AND a fucking wife-beater, alky.
Incitement violence is not protected by the first amendment.
Roger... do you understand the law better than the Justices who sit on the USSC?
Roger, once again out classes by me on all things .
This time on the complete meaning of Socialism.
Roger "means of production" thru Regulation and Law is also part of your dealt beloved Socialist march on the destruction of Capitalism.
Maybe, next time you will educate yourself.
here's where alky stole his bullshit.
check out the cavalcade of asshats who write for that rag.
https://www.justsecurity.org/guest-authors-2/
https://www.justsecurity.org/74217/incitement-to-violence-aint-free-speech/
what garbage.
Rat...
According to Roger, when the police came to remove him from his house after allegations of assaulting his ex-wife... that was because his ex-wife's lawyer lied about him beating his wife. Not because he actually did it.
At least that is Roger's story.
We must believe that story to the same degree we believe his story that Trump called neo-Nazis "fine people".
Both are entitled to the same amount of believability.
“this liberal will be all about socializing”, “basically taking over, and the government running all of your companies.” Socialist Maxine Waters
Roger, you are always wrong
"According to Roger, when the police came to remove him from his house after allegations of assaulting his ex-wife... that was because his ex-wife's lawyer lied about him beating his wife. Not because he actually did it."
Roger bragged about "getting off" the charges, he counts that as a "Win".
https://youtu.be/pW_FXjbt6wY
Hot Mess Maxine.
Scott, he incited an incitement, the encouragement of another person to commit a crime. that is the encouragement of another person to commit a crime.
Congress can use that as a high crime or misdemeanor.
The Insurrection act, allows the President to declare martial law.
You would have been a terrible lawyer
https://www.justsecurity.org/74217/incitement-to-violence-aint-free-speech/
The funny thing about this article (if you read it to completion) is that the author acknowledges that similar charges of incitement against people have been reversed by the courts because of Brandenburg v. Ohio. This, of course, was the USSC decision that determined that for incitement to overturn the first amendment, that the words have to be explicit, instructional, and that the following actions must be immediate.
But, in doing so, he doesn't "really" acknowledge the concept that it must be explicit and instructional or he only provides lip service to it. Suggesting that he said enough to assume a "likelihood of imminent illegal conduct" - which course has nothing to do with what the USSC ruling states (or the reasons why other cases have been over thrown).
Lastly... he boils it back down to the argument made against Trump in the "first" impeachment. An argument that had never "previously" been made, but is now accepted by liberals everywhere... that impeachment is a "political" and not a "legal" recourse. So even if you probably cannot effectively charge and convict Trump with incitement in a court of law, he could still be impeached.
Oddly... if that is their argument, then once Trump is a private citizen, then they would not have any recourse for a "political" solution.
At least that is Roger's story.
his "story" is that he's a fucking simpleton and his opinions on every topic discussed here are driven by one thing - hate.
i watched Trump's Jan. 6 speech live. I watched it in it's entirety at least two more times. i've read the transcript in it's entirety. the only way you get to impeachment, insurrection and sedition from that speech is via Stage IV Trump Derangement Syndrome.
the left is seizing upon this because they're scared shitless. scared shitless that us 'normals' are on to them and wise to their corruption. so they must bring hell on earth to bear on their political enemies.
anyone who has been paying attention even a little bit since 2008 can cite fucking legions of examples of incitement to riot by 0linsky and his minions which Trump's remarks pale in comparison to.
sarah hoyt nails it -
They’re scared. They’re not too bright. For a while dad volunteered to cull the feral pigs that would invade agricultural land. And he told us over and over again there is nothing quite so dangerous as a wounded and dying boar. Which is what the American left is. No high flying ideals, no persuasive arguments, no brilliant operators: all they have left is greedy kleptocrats in the pay of a foreign power. They’re terrified of the changing world. And they intend to make sure we die first.
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/426469/
note that everything the left purports to oppose - McCarthyism, another Kent State - they openly and vigorously support this time around.
these fuckers want us DEAD.
Scott, he incited an incitement, the encouragement of another person to commit a crime. that is the encouragement of another person to commit a crime.
So you ARE arguing that you understand the law better than the USSC.
Got it!
As the resident "genius" - why wouldn't you, huh?
The funny thing about this article (if you read it to completion) is that the author acknowledges that similar charges of incitement against people have been reversed by the courts because of Brandenburg v. Ohio. This, of course, was the USSC decision that determined that for incitement to overturn the first amendment, that the words have to be explicit, instructional, and that the following actions must be immediate.
that was the part that jumped off the page to me too.
that these clowns can undermine their own argument like that and still insist upon being taken seriously is hilarious.
And finally, speech by public employees clearly is less protected overall than other speech – even if that speech is not criminal. Established case law holds that public employees can be fired for speech that hinders efficient operation of their governmental department. So, for example, if a Chief of Police (or president) makes hugely and explicitly racist statements, they can be removed from office. And if, let’s say, Trump on the morning after the attack started singing the praises of the insurrectionists, there is little doubt that such “speech” could be sanctioned through removal or impeachment.
https://www.justsecurity.org/74217/incitement-to-violence-aint-free-speech/
Blogger Roger Amick said...
Scott, he incited an incitement
and there, my friends, is the single dumbest fucking thing you'll read here today.
Trump's words were explicit and instructional.
Don't let them complete their fraud .
Blogger Roger Amick said...
And finally, speech by public employees clearly is less protected overall than other speech – even if that speech is not criminal.
alky,
have you noticed that each and every claim of incitement to violence/insurrection, etc. fails to quote the exact words in Trump's Jan. 6 speech to bolster their case?
if such language did exist they'd cite it. if such language did exist we'd be treated to non-stop playing of the clip on every single media platform out there.
but no, not one of the "experts" that you plagiarize has bothered to go there.
it begs the question - why not?
and i think we know the answer.
and this is why i consider you a liar and a fool.
Blogger Roger Amick said...
Trump's words were explicit and instructional.
so CITE THEM.
constitutional lawyers/scholars have poured over Trump's speech. not one word of his speech was an explicit and instructional incitement to riot.
honest people accept this.
liars do not.
CITE THEM.
Donald Trump Speech “Save America” Rally Transcript January 6
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-speech-save-america-rally-transcript-january-6
CITE THEM.
Donald Trump: (01:11:44)
Our brightest days are before us, our greatest achievements still wait. I think one of our great achievements will be election security because nobody until I came along, had any idea how corrupt our elections were. And again, most people would stand there at 9:00 in the evening and say, “I want to thank you very much,” and they go off to some other life, but I said, “Something’s wrong here. Something’s really wrong. Can’t have happened.” And we fight. We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.
Donald Trump: (01:12:21)
Our exciting adventures and boldest endeavors have not yet begun. My fellow Americans for our movement, for our children and for our beloved country and I say this, despite all that’s happened, the best is yet to come.
Donald Trump: (01:12:43)
So we’re going to, we’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we’re going to the Capitol and we’re going to try and give… The Democrats are hopeless. They’re never voting for anything, not even one vote. But we’re going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones, because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, we’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.
Donald Trump: (01:13:19)
So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I want to thank you all. God bless you and God bless America. Thank you all for being here, this is incredible. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Scott, he incited an incitement, the encouragement of another person to commit a crime. that is the encouragement of another person to commit a crime.
I guess there were opiates in your Cheerios
WTF
The Senate trial can determine if his words were explicit and instructional because following actions must be immediate. They marched to the Capitol building immediately after he spoke. They shouted Hang Mike Pence!
This, of course, was the USSC decision that determined that for incitement to overturn the first amendment, that the words have to be explicit, instructional, and that the following actions must be immediate.
https://www.justsecurity.org/74217/incitement-to-violence-aint-free-speech/
Donald Trump: (01:13:19)
So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.
They marched to the Capitol building immediately after he spoke. They shouted Hang Mike Pence!
The following actions were immediate.
They marched to the Capitol building immediately after he spoke. They shouted Hang Mike Pence!
"They" said and did a lot of things alky.
Trump said and did none of those things.
you have to be a liar of the first order to derive "hang Mike Pence" from Trump's remarks.
oh, and about that senate trial.
yeah... meaningless as it will be conducted with Trump as a private citizen.
a "smart" Joe Biden is telling democrats to stop this nonsense as it only serves to keep pissed off those who are already pissed off and to escalate the heat.
the "stupid" Joe Biden that we will install on Wednesday will do none of this, and things remain on a low boil, obscuring his first 100 days.
you just can't help yourself alky.
everything you do is driven by hatred. and this is why you're angry, broken and alone.
The following actions were immediate.
yes, immediate as night follows day. what you lack is a connection. a legitimate and direct connection.
keep looking alky. it will never, ever materialize, but i encourage you to keep looking anyway.
LOL.
stupid bastard.
It's very interesting how Scott plays down an invasion of and attack on our nation's Capitol building with threats of violence expressed toward federal officials by some who are now as equally disgusted with President Trump and calling him a traitor because he belatedly condemned their actions. I suppose Scott will also play down the fact that the FBI and other intelligence agencies are now warning about possible violent activities that may be soon be taken against any or all of our 50 state Capitols.
None of that seems as significant to Scott as the deplorable but scattered acts of violence done by some who felt racially mistreated last summer, and some who were simply vandals.
Yes, terribly violent things DID happen in parts of the United States last summer, etc., but millions of our citizens demonstrated and protested peacefully against excessive police actions in city after city, and no one attacked our Capitol or sought to disrupt our electoral system until now, nor did anyone necessitate the kind of militaristic protection that is now being forced upon us simply in order for us to have a constitutionally mandated Inauguration.
That does not seem to bother Scott much at all.
but scattered acts of violence done by some who felt racially mistreated last summer, and some who were simply vandals.
You really are this fucking stupid, unbelievable
The overall reason why Scott posted this.
He keeps drawing parallel connections between the black lives movement and Antifa, and the incitement to invade the Capitol Building.
He wants to discredit the black lives movement and the systematic racism, that still exists. We don't have legal segregation anymore. President Lyndon Johnson and a lot of Republicans wrote this civil rights act and the voting rights acts.
I don't find it credible.
January 6th will go down in history as the most dangerous incident since the civil war.
But, the very institutions granted by the Constitution as Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are sworn in on January 20th.
I said this before, the Republicans should get away from Donald Trump, like they did when they rid of The John Birch Society.
William F Buckley Jr. lead the movement.
But...I have a terrible record of predictions. I don't think they can get rid of Trump.
On Football games.
If the Kansas City Chiefs win, they will face the Buffalo Bills.
Kputz and ballsless should place bets!
Scott (aka Chtruth) asked:
Does this sound like it equates to what actually happened:
(2) Violent entry and disorderly conduct.—An individual or group of individuals may not willfully and knowingly—
- (A) enter or remain on the floor of either House of Congress or in any cloakroom or lobby adjacent to that floor, in the Rayburn Room of the House of Representatives, or in the Marble Room of the Senate, unless authorized to do so pursuant to rules adopted, or an authorization given, by that House;
- (B) enter or remain in the gallery of either House of Congress in violation of rules governing admission to the gallery adopted by that House or pursuant to an authorization given by that House;
- (C) with the intent to disrupt the orderly conduct of official business,
"WHERE ARE THEY C0UNTIN' THE VOTES?"
enter or remain in a room in any of the Capitol Buildings set aside or designated for the use of—
- - (i)either House of Congress or a Member, committee, officer, or employee of Congress, or either House of Congress; or
- - (ii)the Library of Congress;
(D)utter loud, threatening,
"HANG PENCE!"
or abusive language,
or engage in disorderly or disruptive conduct,
DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY?
at any place in the Grounds or in any of the Capitol Buildings with the intent to impede, disrupt, or disturb the orderly conduct of a session of Congress or either House of Congress, or the orderly conduct in that building of a hearing before, or any deliberations of, a committee of Congress or either House of Congress;
(E) obstruct, or impede passage through or within, the Grounds or any of the Capitol Buildings;
(F) engage in an act of physical violence in the Grounds or any of the Capitol Buildings; or
(G) parade, demonstrate, or picket in any of the Capitol Buildings.
YES! IN SPADES!
AND IF YOU SAY IT DOESN'T YOU REALLY NEED YOUR HEAD EXAMINED.
it was the equivalent of an old fashioned college panty raid.
--rrb
January 6th will go down in history as the most dangerous incident since the civil war.
My god could you be anymore if a drama queen?
12/7
6/04
9/11
You are a pussy roger
Scott. watch it.
https://www.newyorker.com/video/watch/a-reporters-footage-from-inside-the-capitol-siege
Yes! Watch it! Watch it and then admit how deplorably despicable you have become in trying to dismiss it as not significant.
"Caliphate4vrJanuary 17, 2021 at 1:03 PM
January 6th will go down in history as the most dangerous incident since the civil war.
My god could you be anymore if a drama queen?
12/7
6/04
9/11
You are a pussy roger"
Yes, and wrong , his latest was challenging me on the meaning of "Socialism"
I hope you learned Alky, but I am sure you haven't.
YES! IN SPADES!
AND IF YOU SAY IT DOESN'T YOU REALLY NEED YOUR HEAD EXAMINED
Well Reverend, that is what they are being charged with, because that is what they did.
Insurrection is a different law and one that they are not being charged with.
So I am glad that you agree with me that the charges are accurate with what they did...
Rather than arguing that they did something that they are not charged with.
ey forced their way into the U.S. Capitol, using his phone’s camera as a reporter’s notebook.
Released on 01/17/2021
Transcript
[gentle music]
[Man] Is this the Senate?
[crowd yelling and chattering]
Where the fuck are they?
[crowd yelling and talking]
Look, it's a PR war.
Okay?
You have to understand, it's an IO war.
We can't lose the IO war.
[Man] We're better than that.
Yeah. We're better than that.
It's information, information operation.
[man chanting and yelling]
There's gotta be something in here
we can fucking use against these scumbags.
[man chanting and yelling]
[crowd muttering]
This is a good one.
[crowd muttering]
[Man] Hawley, Cruz.
I think Cruz would want us to do this, so.
Yeah, absolutely. I think we're good.
[crowd murmuring]
[Man] Yeah, oh, wow, oh, thank you so much.
[crowd laughing and murmuring]
[Man] If they don't fix this shit,
we're gonna fucking take this [indistinct].
[Man] Millions of Americans are [indistinct].
To protect the Constitution of the United States,
against enemies foreign and domestic.
[Crowd] USA, USA.
[crowd yelling]
Go go go. Watch out.
Watch out.
[crowd yelling]
[Man] Easy, easy.
[crowd yelling]
[Man] Fuck you, police.
[crowd yelling and cheering]
Go, go.
Go, let's go.
[crowd yelling]
Who's house?
[Crowd] Our house.
If you do not stand down,
you are outnumbered.
There's a fucking million of us out there,
and we are listening to Trump, your boss.
[crowd yelling]
Let us through. We're peaceful citizens.
[Man] Let the people in.
[crowd murmuring]
[Man] Where's the exit?
[crowd murmuring]
[Man] Hey, it ain't safe for you guys.
[Man] We love you guys.
Take it easy,
and away.
[crowd yelling]
[Crowd] Treason, treason, treason, treason,
treason, treason, treason, treason, treason, treason,
treason, treason.
Defend your liberty.
[banging on door] Defend the Constitution.
Defend your liberty.
Defend your Constitution.
Defend your liberty.
Defend your Constitution.
[banging on doors]
[Woman] 1776.
[Man] You're afraid of Antifa?
Well, guess what?
America showed up.
Where's the rest of everybody?
There's not enough of us.
They're gonna bring feds in...
[Woman] Knock, knock.
We're here.
Is this the Senate?
[crowd murmuring]
Where the fuck are they?
[crowd yelling and murmuring]
Where are they?
[Man] While we're here,
we might as well set up a government.
[Crowd] Treason, treason-
[Man] Hey, let's take a seat, people.
Let's take a seat. Where's fucking
Nancy Pelosi?
[Man] Let's vote on some shit.
[Man] Where the fuck is Nancy?
[Man] We paid for it.
Pence and other officials who went into hiding were actually afraid they were going to lose their lives, but rrb says "it was [merely] the equivalent of an old fashioned college panty raid."
Scott asshole said
Will the capital rioters be "charged" with Insurrectiono?
No.
They will be charged with a dozen other crimes because they were not Insurrectionist.
They incited violence .
They damaged government buildings.
And a dozen other crimes.
Your stupid allegations of insurrection are false.
You have lost your mind.
James, you said no more name calling, yet, you're the one quickest to call names, why?
Are you like Roger, unable to control your emotions?
Roger, loser at life.
He keeps drawing parallel connections between the black lives movement and Antifa, and the incitement to invade the Capitol Building.
He wants to discredit the black lives movement and the systematic racism, that still exists.
The law is the law is the law is the law is the law... There is no "justified rioting" exemption to the laws surrounding those actions.
So what we must judge are the "ACTIONS" - not the cause.
If you want to make a valid generic argument that people marching down the street with rifles, Molotov cocktails, dressed in body armor, and carrying shields, planning a coordinated attack against Federal law enforcement who are protecting Federal buildings...
is no big thing...
Then go ahead.
But please do so without trying to pretend that there is justification because you believe that they are being motivated to break the law, attack law enforcement, and destroy property by a "just cause". There is never a just cause for that sort of violence.
But for a second, let's pretend it was the other way around. Trump supporter with rifles, body armor, Molotov cocktails, moving in a coordinated fashion to attack law enforcement agents tasked to protect federal property...
while BLM protesters decide to enter the capital building without rifles, Molotov cocktails, and without much (if any coordination) as a means to quite obviously protest something congress was doing that they disagreed with.
I doubt very seriously that your position on the two events would be the same as your position is today. All because you are taking the position that there is such a thing as "justified rioting".
Your stupid allegations of insurrection are false.
What are you talking about?
Your side is claiming it was in insurrection (not me). Your side is claiming that Trump "incited" an "insurrection" (not me).
Are you seriously making this argument?
There is no such thing as "justified rioting" Demonstrations in response to the murder of George Floyd and several others were justified. The invasion of the Capitol building is not justified. But you believe it was justified, because the President told you to think about it.
Roger just said some riots are justified, if done for the right cause.
Nobody on my side said that they had committed Insurrection. Maybe you found that bullshit on Twitter?
So far they have been arrested for other crimes, but not ONE OF THEM WERE CHARGED WITH INSURRECTION!
The Insurrection act is perhaps what the President wants to institute and declare martial law across the country and stop the inauguration on January 20th!
There is no such thing as "justified rioting" Demonstrations in response to the murder of George Floyd and several others were justified.
I never believe rioting is justified.
I don't believe that the George Floyd "riots" were justified, and I certainly do not believe that the Capital "riots" were justified.
I do believe that the peaceful portions of the protests surrounding George Floyd and the peaceful portions of the rally held last week are perfectly fine.
But the rioting is never, ever justified... and everyone who riots should be held legally accountable. Unfortunately, cities like Portland and Seattle refused to prosecute protesters and people like Kamala Harris bailed antifa rioters out of jail, so that they could go right back the very next day and attack more police officers.
IF it "bothers" you that I take issue with that sort of deal, then so be it. I really don't give a crap. My principles are consistent based on the actions of the people involved. I don't believe that some rioting is acceptable and other rioting isn't.
Demonstrations are protected by the first amendment.
Violent riots are again the law!
Mark Meadows Is Worst Chief of Staff In History
12:43 pm
Chris Whipple, author of The Gatekeepers: How the White House Chiefs of Staff Define Every Presidency, writes in the Washington Post that Mark Meadows is the worst to ever hold the position.
Well, it's only appropriate that the worst Chief Executive in U.S. history should have the worst Chief of Staff in U.S history.
I don't believe that some rioting is acceptable and other rioting isn't.
I don't either
Violent riots are again the law!"
Antifa
BLM
Some at the Capital.
Simple question for you, Scott (I will not waste my time bothering to ask Cali):
If Trump did not intend to send the crowd to try to stop the proceedings at the Capitol,
why was he so absolutely DELIGHTED when the first television reports of them forcefully entering the building began to appear?
He was so delighted that he could simply not UNDERSTAND why his advisers and handlers were not equally delighted by what the crowds were doing!
Why did he not immediately, as Larry Kudlow complains -- why did he not IMMEDIATELY call upon the crowds to stop the violence and withdraw?
And why did it take a long time to get him to finally issue a statement telling the crowds to "go home" while assuring them that "We love you"?
And why was it only on the following day, after it had become evident how extremely problematic for Trump this was becoming, that his advisers were at last able to get him to read (unenthusiastically) a scripted text condemning the violence -- a text which thus angered those who thought they were only doing what he had wanted them to do).
TRUMP LIKED and APPROVED WHAT HAD HAPPENED until it started becoming clear that it could do him great harm -- as it IS doing.
Got any explanation for that, Scott?.
Without your usual dancing all around, why don't you give us a simple answer to that?
Nobody on my side said that they had committed Insurrection.
Jesus Christ Roger...
Google the term insurrection and look at the recent news. Every newspaper, every story, every Democrat is calling it the "Capital insurrection".
THE TERM INSURRECTION IS IN THE ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT WRITTEN UP BY CONGRESSINAL DEMOCRATS!!!
The allegations are literally an INCITEMENT OF INSURRECTION
What planet did you just roll off from?
Try Being Honest Roger.
Well Reverend...
I will go by what actually happened (not from what you read in your fantasy blogs) - and I saw Donald Trump, Donald Jr, and most every Republican call for calm, peace, and I watched them denounce the violence in real time..
Before Twitter deleted the tweets, the President stated (as the riots were just getting started).
I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 6, 2021
Please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 6, 2021
So the reality here, Reverend... is that your entire question is based on a false assumption that Trump "loved and supported things" when in fact he openly and publicly called for peace and denounced the violence right off the bat.
So when you have a question that actually asks something based on reality... let me know.
"What planet did you just roll off from?" CHT
Answer : The Planet that he is living your life and not his.
Scott, what if the President implements the Insurrection act.
The Insurrection Act of 1807 is a United States federal law that empowers the President of the United States to deploy U.S. military and federalized National Guard troops within the United States in particular circumstances, such as to suppress civil disorder, insurrection, or rebellion. before January 20th to stop the inauguration by the Chief Justice Roberts, would you agree with him?
3 2021 - 10:15am
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RT @JenLawrence21: We have been marching all around the country for you Mr President. Now we will bring it to DC on Jan 6 and PROUDLY stand…
https://www.thetrumparchive.com/
The Insurrection Act of 1807 is a United States federal law that empowers the President of the United States to deploy U.S. military and federalized National Guard troops within the United States in particular circumstances, such as to suppress civil disorder, insurrection, or rebellion. before January 20th to stop the inauguration by the Chief Justice Roberts, would you agree with him?
Would I agree with calling for a military coup?
Of course not?
Why would anyone agree with that?
Have you fucking lost your mind?
But what does that have to do with whether or not the Capital riots are legally considered an "insurrection" or not?
You just claimed that "NOBODY" was calling the Capital riots an insurrection when that is the Term used by Pelosi and gang in their articles of impeachment and pretty much every media outlook is not calling it the Capital "riots" but the Capital "insurrection".
Now the Reverend has agreed that the charges brought against the riots fit the bill EXACTLY - and that the charges would not fit the definition of "Insurrection" (because they cannot really be both). And you have agreed that there was no insurrection (going so far as to falsely claim that I made up the idea that your side was calling as such).
I can end this debate... and declare complete and total victory.
What does the dictionary call this
a violent uprising against an authority or government.
Insurrection
The demonstrator committed Insurrection.
I declare victory again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again!
What does the dictionary call this
Well that would describe every single riot we had all summer that rose up against any authority (police) or any Government (state or local). That would encompass the takeover of Capital Hill where they repealed police, called themselves their own country, and attempted to create their own government. Every attack on a Federal building, etc... etc..
Sorry Rog...
But the insurrection being referred to is a legal term that requires certain things to be in place before it can be charged. The articles of impeachment suggest that the President "incited" an "insurrection". I doubt that you can make a legal argument that you "incited" an "insurrection" unless you are actually using the LEGAL terms.
Moron.
After months of "mostly peaceful protests" involving black lives matter and antifa groups, apparently we now had an "insurrection".
As usual Lil Schitty starts his screed with a false equivalency....which is typical for the moronic right that cannot defend trump with anything but opinions......BWAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! 3 more days and trump be gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry Lil Schitty...your expertise in the legal is wanting especially with defining words......asshole
Re: 2:03 and 2:09
FACT: REALITY
Those who were in the White House with Trump soon after his speech were upset that Trump's initial reaction to the storming of the Capitol was sheer DELIGHT.
They had to talk him down from his senseless euphoria, and it took them quite a while to convince him that he must issue a call to cease from acts of violence and leave the building.
Even then he soft pedaled it, saying: "Go home" and "We love you."
FACT: Larry Kudlow, one of Trump's most ardent supporters, strongly stated how disappointed he was that Trump did not IMMEDIATELY call for no violence and for them to leave the property.
____________
Larry Kudlow: “I was hoping that he would come out quickly and make statements calling everybody back and stopping the violence.”
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL:
“President Trump’s top economic adviser criticized his boss’s handling of the riot at the U.S. Capitol and said he was disappointed in the way Mr. Trump treated Vice President Mike Pence, while defending the administration’s policy legacy.”
In other words, Kudlow could still defend (some of) Trump's "policy legacy," but COULD NOT defend how Trump mishandled what happened at the Capitol or how he treated Mike Pence.
Only died in the wool Trump toadies like you could do that.
Reverend...
Show me a public Trump statement or a public Trump tweet or anything saying anything slightly resembling the "story" you are claiming.
I put up two tweets that he put up "while" the rioting was taking place asking for everyone to be peaceful and showing support for the Police.
You put up rumors from silly blogs...
Sorry... but this nonsense is exactly why I have been avoiding getting involved in these threads. It's like debating with four year olds.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/video-dept/a-reporters-footage-from-inside-the-capitol-siege
An interesting first hand account and video of what Lil Schitty denies is an insurrection because his vast knowledge of the legal system tells otherwise......BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!
Sorry... but this nonsense is exactly why I have been avoiding getting involved in these threads
Wow Lil Schitty....I guess your shit really doesn't stink!!!!!! BWAAAAAAPAAAAAA!!!! Funny how you spend countless hours writing tripe that is incendiary and now you deny being involvee ,,,,You truly are a fucking joke!!!!!!!!
Insults
Scott you were right in one way. They used Insurrection in the correct context.
Why Trump Must Go on TrialThe insurrectionists whom the President directed to the Capitol have, in a sense, been redeployed in an effort to secure impunity for him.
Amy Davidson Sorkin
Among the more striking aspects of the Republicans’ response to last week’s historic second impeachment of Donald Trump, for “incitement to insurrection,” were their warnings that holding the President to account for his role in the assault on the Capitol, on January 6th, would only lead to more violence. On Wednesday night, just hours after the House vote, Senator Lindsey Graham, of South Carolina, told Sean Hannity, on Fox News, that the impeachment was itself an incitement. Graham, who had flown with Trump to Texas the day before, said that President-elect Joe Biden should tell Chuck Schumer, the incoming Senate Majority Leader, and Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House, to call off the proceedings ahead of a trial in the Senate: “If you want to end the violence, end impeachment.”
In light of the events at the Capitol, which left five people dead, the possibility of violence can’t be regarded lightly. But bending to that threat would mean acting as if the Capitol were still in the hands of the mob. The insurrectionists whom Trump directed to prevent the tallying of Electoral College votes have, in a sense, been redeployed in an effort to secure impunity for him. That menace lies behind Republican complaints about how “divisive” it would be to convict Trump. It is why members of the National Guard have been camped in the halls of Congress, using their backpacks as pillows; why more than a dozen major Metro stations in Washington are closed; and why Airbnb will not book rooms in the city until after Biden has been inaugurated.
It is also why the Senate must proceed undeterred with Trump’s trial, which will begin, as the Constitution requires, the day after Pelosi sends to the Senate the single article of impeachment approved by the House. (In a signing ceremony after the vote, Pelosi used the lectern that a member of the mob had taken from her office.) The case is solid: the article encompasses not only the incendiary rally before the attack, at which Trump told his supporters to head to the Capitol and fight, but his earlier calls to battle and his blatantly illegal demand that Georgia officials “find” votes for him—or else. Although no other President has been tried after leaving office, there is a precedent in the 1876 case of William Belknap, the Secretary of War, who was unable to head off impeachment by resigning.
The insurrectionists whom Trump directed to prevent the tallying of Electoral College votes have, in a sense, been redeployed in an effort to secure impunity for him.
The GOP.....the party of frauds and liars looking to promote unity.......MY FUCKING ASS!!!!!!! Just like Lil Schitty promoting that the returns were irregular and therefor not real......the Old man white GOP heads down the path of supporting the lie even when trump is gone!!!!!!!!! BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
Republicans call for unity but won’t attest Biden won fairly
Many Congressional Republicans have refused to acknowledge the election was not stolen, the baseless claim that drove thousands to take part in the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6.
I would punch him
I will pay his later etc
Scott won't watch it
https://twitter.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1350805556269821955?s=19
U.S. defense officials say they are worried about an insider attack or other threat from service members involved in securing President-elect Joe Biden’s inauguration, prompting the FBI to vet all of the 25,000 National Guard troops coming into Washington for the event.
The massive undertaking reflects the extraordinary security concerns that have gripped Washington following the deadly Jan. 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol by pro-Trump rioters.
January 6 is a new red-letter day in U.S. history, not just because it was the first time that the Capitol had been ransacked since the War of 1812, but because a subset of the invaders apparently were attempting to disrupt a constitutionally mandated meeting of Congress, kidnap the vice president, and somehow force him to declare Trump the victor in an election he lost. En route, the mob ultimately injured scores of law-enforcement officers. The attack led to the deaths of two officers and four other Americans. But the toll could have been much worse: Police located pipe bombs at the headquarters of both the Republican and Democratic National Committees. Investigators discovered a vehicle fully loaded with weaponry and what prosecutors are calling “homemade napalm bombs.”
The violence that Americans witnessed—and that might recur in the coming days—is not a protest gone awry or the work of “a few bad apples.” It is the blossoming of a rotten seed that took root in the Republican Party some time ago and has been nourished by treachery, poor political judgment, and cowardice. When Trump leaves office, my party faces a choice: We can dedicate ourselves to defending the Constitution and perpetuating our best American institutions and traditions, or we can be a party of conspiracy theories, cable-news fantasies, and the ruin that comes with them. We can be the party of Eisenhower, or the party of the conspiracist Alex Jones. We can applaud Officer Goodman or side with the mob he outwitted. We cannot do both.
Conrad Black provided Scott's talking points. Almost every word.
The article of impeachment that was passed this week is one third press clippings and contains no plausible legal charge. Trump is accused of inciting an insurrection, which is a violent uprising against the government; this was what President Lincoln declared when 11 southern states seceded in 1861, starting a Civil War in which 750,000 Americans died. It is Trump’s enemies and not Trump who are stifling freedom of expression by throwing people off the main platforms, including Trump himself. The same people conducted the Democratic presidential campaign while the nominee largely remained in his basement under cover of the Covid virus, and ignored the months of “peaceful protests” across the country all summer that killed scores of people, injured 700 police, and did $2 billion of damage to mainly minority-owned businesses. And now, in the most fatuous exercise in American political history, the House Democrats have launched an impeachment of the president with no argument, no evidence, no witnesses, no due process of any kind, for a proposed trial to remove the president from office well after he will have departed that office at the expiry of his constitutionally fixed term and to do so for conduct that did not occur. This will be a total fiasco and Trump’s enemies in their frenzy are endangering the claim of the United States to be a democracy governed by the rule of law.
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