Monday, April 19, 2021

Andrew McCarthy surprises me a little with this analysis?

After appearing to be a cheerleader for the prosecution, former prosecutor McCarthy suggests that the state did not prove murder. But feels manslaughter could be justified.

When someone suffers a nonfatal injury because of another person’s carelessness, we grasp pretty easily that this is what civil lawsuits are for. When someone dies because of another person’s carelessness, however, our angry reaction, wholly natural, is that the other person must be punished because mere money damages can in no sense compensate for the life that has been lost.
But when logic enters into the equation, the logic that undergirds the criminal-justice system, we grudgingly understand the apples-to-oranges problem. We convict and punish people, taking their liberty away, as a penalty for their malevolent intention to cause harm. We do it to make them mend their ways. We’re not trying to teach them to be more careful next time. We are trying to overcome their will to prey on society. We are discouraging others from similarly acting on their evil inclinations.
Second Degree Murder
This is also a charge of unintentional homicide. Unlike manslaughter, though, it does have a traditional criminal-intent — or mens rea — element. The theory is felony murder: a homicide that the perpetrator does not intend but commits during the course of carrying out a different offense. In this instance, that offense is criminal assault (third-degree assault under Minnesota law
This requires prosecutors to establish that Chauvin intentionally inflicted bodily harm on Floyd. That is, the state must prove mens rea not for murder but for assault. To convict, the jury must be unanimously convinced that Chauvin’s specific purpose was to inflict physical pain, that bodily harm to Floyd was a result that Chauvin wanted to bring about.
I do not believe that the prosecutors have met this burden beyond a reasonable doubt.
If it were not for the fraught atmosphere, and the heavy political and social pressure to convict, I do not believe that a jury would render a guilty verdict on second-degree murder. Indeed, I don’t think prosecutors would have charged it.

Third Degree Murde

To my mind, as the evidence has played out, the easiest charge to dispense with is the third-degree murder count — the one the state fought to keep in the case even though Judge Peter Cahill saw no basis for it. It is homicide caused by reckless acts taken with a depraved indifference to human life. The classic example is the sociopath who indiscriminately shoots a gun into a crowd — not intending to kill or harm any particular person, but heedlessly creating a patent risk of death or severe injury to everyone in the vicinity of the act.
This is not that kind of case. The police acted forcibly in response to Floyd alone. They did not cause danger to anyone else. They did not even cause danger to Floyd until he resisted arrest. They called for an ambulance to get him medical attention rather than trying to drag him to detention in the station house or a jail. They used more force and administered less care than the circumstances called for, but Chauvin and his partners did not exhibit depraved indifference to human life as that term is understood in the law.
Second Degree Manslaughter
Judge Cahill will advise the jury that there is a five-part test for whether an act meets this standard of recklessness. The state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that (1) Chauvin’s actions created a risk; (2) the risk was substantial; (3) there was no adequate reason for taking the risk; (4) Chauvin was aware of the risk; and (5) he disregarded the risk. But the judge will admonish the jurors that the state need not prove that Chauvin intended to cause Floyd harm.

This is where I tend to run into some confusion or even a mild disagreement with some legal analysis. According to another author from National Review, they make an argument against charging Kim Potter (the police officer who shot Daunte Wright) based on the fact that Minnesota law does require an understanding or some sort of intent:

(1) by the person’s culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another.

Burke writes that Minnesota “has no applicable statute for criminally negligent (non-conscious) homicide,” meaning the state “has made a policy decision to leave most negligent homicides free from criminal punishment unless coupled with consciousness of the risk of grave injury or death.”
So perhaps it is just a matter of semantics, but the statute does suggest that the state must prove that there was not just a risk (in general) but a risk that the actions could cause death or great bodily harm.  I don't see how you demand that you can prove one without also proving the other. If Chauvin was truly aware that his restraint was likely to cause harm or even death, then that basically is your conscious decision to cause that harm or death. 

Or was it the non-action (in this case) that we are now faulting him for. Not that the restraint was going to cause death or great bodily harm, but that the fact he didn't roll him over or didn't perform CPR was going to cause death or great bodily harm. Either way, this sounds more like a case of "negligence" than a "conscious decision" to do something that he understood could cause death or great bodily harm. Again, this was the lowest level of physical force as defined by police. Any less force would have been no force.

Back to McCarthy:

There is a good argument that prosecutors have exaggerated the danger of the prone position, the amount of weight the police were applying, and the manner in which they were applying it. Chauvin never choked Floyd. The claims that he was, in effect, strangling Floyd by the neck are overblown. Still, within five minutes, Floyd stopped resisting, was obviously laboring to breathe, and lost his pulse. It was utterly irresponsible of the police, at that point, to fail to place him on his side and to render him medical assistance.
This is why I believe it is highly likely that Chauvin will be convicted of manslaughter, and that verdict would be well justified.

Now, I don't mean to belabor this point. But it still sounds like McCarthy is using a different basis of underlying law to reach this conclusion. As explained in that article regarding Officer Potter, Minnesota does not have a manslaughter law that encompasses "negligence" like many other states do. So I am not sure if McCarthy is using a more generic Manslaughter argument to reach this conclusion, or if he is claiming that the argument (they should have known better) fits under the definition of consciously performing an action that they knew could or would cause death or great bodily harm?  

More to the point, McCarthy doesn't even address the second element of the prosecution's burden. Whether or not George Floyd even died because of the officers? It feels like McCarthy is just assuming that to be the case. Andrew Branca makes no assumptions and suggests that this case probably shouldn't even get to questions of intent or negligence based on the fact that the state may have not proven cause of death.

Either way, I don't disagree that the jury is likely to find Chauvin guilty of Manslaughter. Based on the political nature of this case and the violence already surrounding this, who knows what a jury might do. 

But I would personally take issue with the concept that the State has even proved a cause of death beyond reasonable doubt, much less that what happened isn't better described as negligence than the murky concept of conscious risk. 


104 comments:

rrb said...



McCarthy is taking the cowards way out seeking to appease a mob that can never be appeased.

Not guilty on all counts is the only just verdict that can be returned.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

FAR MORE IMPORTANT:

https://www.aol.com/news/u-supreme-court-brings-end-151600232-162736637.html

the supreme court brings an end to another election challenge

QUESTION AT THE END OF THE VIDEO:
ARE WE STILL A DEMOCRACY?

WE HAVE COME TO A TIPPING POINT FOR AMERICA

rrb said...



AOL?

LMAO.

THWAP!!!


Fuck off pederast.


Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

AOL
The quality of the video speaks for itself.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Focus on what did happen, Floyd was not a threat, wasn't resisting, just wasn't able to comply, should have recognized that, had him handcuffed, plenty of resources, four officers, another in distance, wasn't going anywhere, wasn't doing anything, didn't need to be prone, that's transient to handcuff, defendant on him, grinding knees, twist his arm, wrist, against handcuff, pain compliance technique without opportunity to comply is simply infliction of pain, not a reasonable use of force, not authorized by MPD.


Kneeling on top of somebody, effectively using Maximum Restraint Technique, didn't follow policy, have to put person immediately in side recovery, why didn't they do that?


Conduct didn't warrant it, didn't want to have to call sergeant on Memorial Day, didn't need to , just did it anyway.


Reasonable officer follows rules and training. Force that carries risk of death is deadly force, the MPD tactics guy , deadly force not authorized when someone passed out on the ground.


Can't even claim Floyd engaged in passive resistance at this point. McMillian said get up in car, and Floyd said, I will, I can't. Not given the opportunity, that's not resistance, that's compliant.

Share

an hour ago

When questioned, the defense force expert, the combination even, being large and on something, not a justification for the use of force, the defendant's entire basis, his explanation to McMillian, is inadequate.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

RE rat's 11:57 and my 12:03

The video is not from AOL but from THE GUARDIAN
and the accompanying article is from
REUTERS

By Andrew Chung

(Reuters) - The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday brought an end to another lawsuit related to the Nov. 3 presidential election filed by a Republican former congressional candidate who had challenged the extension of Pennsylvania's deadline to receive mail-in ballots.

The justices, in a brief order, decided that the dispute was moot. They threw out a Nov. 13 decision by the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Philadelphia that found the candidate, Jim Bognet, as well as four individual voters, did not have legal standing to challenge the ballot deadline extension.

Bognet, who lost his race for a seat in the U.S. House of Representatives to Democratic rival Matt Cartwright, and the voters had filed the suit before the election, challenging a Sept. 17 ruling by Pennsylvania's top court ordering officials to count mail-in ballots that were postmarked by Election Day and received up to three days later.

The high court's action in the lingering dispute was expected as it has previously rejected many others pursued by former President Donald Trump and his allies related to the presidential election.
ha ha ha ha

Trump, a Republican, lost his re-election bid to Democrat Joe Biden, who took office on Jan. 20. Biden defeated Trump by more than 80,000 votes in Pennsylvania. Trump made false claims that the election was stolen from him through widespread voting fraud and irregularities.

The election dispute in Pennsylvania, like in several other states, involved changes implemented to facilitate voting during the coronavirus pandemic, a public health crisis that prompted a surge in mail-in ballots as voters sought to avoid crowded polling places.

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court sided with the state's Democratic Party and various Democratic officials and candidates who argued that an Election Day mail-in ballot receipt deadline would violate the state constitution's guarantee of "free and equal" elections given the pandemic and warnings by the U.S. Postal Service over its ability to deliver ballots in time.

The 3rd Circuit in its ruling against Bognet and the voters said that they cannot represent the state legislature, whose power they claimed had been undermined by the state court.

"Because plaintiffs are not the General Assembly, nor do they bear any conceivable relationship to state lawmaking processes, they lack standing to sue over the alleged usurpation of the General Assembly's rights," the 3rd Circuit said.

(Reporting by Andrew Chung in New York; Editing by Will Dunham)

SCOTUS let it stand. ha ha ha ha

rrb said...




Stop ruining every thread alky, you wife-beating, piss-drunk, fucking asshole.



Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The defense is saying that a reasonable officer would act like officer Chauvin did at that point.

Chauvin sees Keung and Lane struggling with Floyd attempting to put him into the car.


Hears the words Floyd is saying. I'm claustrophobic, I'm a good guy, good man, claustrophobic, just had COVID, reasonable officers observing with eyes and ears and assessing what he sees pursuant to policy, and what he sees is active resistance. Floyd not just getting into back seat of car.



Share

2 minutes ago

At 8:17:24, Chauvin arrives and walking up to 320.


What would reasonable police officer say in this instance?


Officer has to be aware of policy, active aggression or active resistance, let's call it active resistance, response to police efforts to take person into custody, active resistance, physical actions or vebal behavior reflecting intention to make it more difficult for officers to achieve control.


As Derek Chauvin walks up to scene, all information from dispatch, all the information from Chang waving him over, he knows department policy on active resistance, policy, training, this is an officer's consideration of the use of force. All of these things factor in.

A reasonable officer would act to restrain a bigger person .

Anonymous said...

This is bazzare, not as bazzare as Lydia forcing Roger Amuck to sell his guns.

"just wasn't able to comply"

Do tell, exactly why is it Georgie Felon Floyd could not "comply"?

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

In almost 20 years I never hit Lydia

Keep it up asshole

Anonymous said...


🤣Especially when compared to that Pomeranian mongrel you beat the shit out of on a daily basis.😆



KansasDemocrat April 19, 2021 at 11:57 AM

God this s pure comedy gold
"BLM
Beat
Lydia
More"

😆😂Roger AmickApril 19, 2021 at 10:58 AM

I'm bookmarking the ip address to sue your ass😂😆🤣

Roger, is a typical ❄.
Calls us all kinds of names.But, when fire is returned he melts.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

A question they never asked is why did they pull him out of the car and put him face down for nine minutes and twenty five seconds?

rrb said...



Do tell, exactly why is it Georgie Felon Floyd could not "comply"?


What the alky is saying is that black people, NEGROES as he calls them on twitter, are too stupid to understand a direct order from a police officer.

It appears to be a malady exclusive to blacks, as I've never had a problem understanding a police officer on the few occasions I've been pulled over for speeding.

I've always treated blacks as equals thinking that they didn't require affirmative action, etc., but according to the alky, these NEGROES as he calls them on twitter, simply do not possess the intellect to understand the most basic requests.

George Bush called it "the soft bigotry of low expectations."

Daniel Moynihan warned us of this and he was not wrong.



rrb said...


Blogger Roger Amick said...

A question they never asked is why did they pull him out of the car and put him face down for nine minutes and twenty five seconds?



Watch the video, moron. The WHOLE video. Junkie refused every order he was given. And he started with the patented "I can't breathe" bullshit like he was wearing the fucking t-shirt.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The defense team is doing well!
Remember that, in history a police officer is almost never convicted. People understand how difficult it is to be a police officier


Reasonable officer relies on training and information evidence, what he knows.


Heard Lt. Mercil testify about how 15 years ago the MPD went to ground defense tactics, getting them on the ground to control them, control head, body, different moves the police use to eliminate space, escape versus control.


These are the tactics employed by MPD for 15 years. Why? Safer for officer, and safer for suspect, keeps them contained, controlled, confined until no longer resisting.


Reasonable officer would also consider his department's policies. Including the use of non-deadly force policy, force that does not have reasonable likelihood of death or serious bodily harm, includes physically subduing, controlling, capturing, or physically managing person. 5-302 of MPD policy.

Share

a minute ago

Reasonable officer relies on training and information evidence, what he knows.


Heard Lt. Mercil testify about how 15 years ago the MPD went to ground defense tactics, getting them on the ground to control them, control head, body, different moves the police use to eliminate space, escape versus control.


These are the tactics employed by MPD for 15 years. Why? Safer for officer, and safer for suspect, keeps them contained, controlled, confined until no longer resisting.


Reasonable officer would also consider his department's policies. Including the use of non-deadly force policy, force that does not have reasonable likelihood of death or serious bodily harm, includes physically subduing, controlling, capturing, or physically managing person. 5-302 of MPD policy.

Share

3 minutes ago

Reasonable officers will consider their training, right?


And before that important to udnerstand that not a single use of force expert or officer said that anything up to this point was unlawful or unreasonable. Reasonable to put Floyd into squad, reasonable efforts to overcome resistance. Nothing contrary to policy, training, defensive tactics, crisis intervention, all reasonable.


It's at the point that Floyd is brought to ground that we have dispute about use of force and what reasonable officer would know.


Stoughton, at point Floyd came out of car, putting him on ground was unreasonable?


So, was it?


We will see!

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Why did they pull him out of car Jimmy Hitler KKK asshole?,,????

rrb said...



They pulled him out of the car because he reused their DIRECT ORDERS to exit the vehicle.

Like you've been saying on twitter, he's just a stupid NEGRO.


This ain't fucking rocket science alky, but you keep on treating it as such.

rrb said...



According to the alky, what was lacking was police instructions in EBONICS.

"You best be gettin' yo ass out da car an' shit yo."

If only for ebonics, Junkie might be alive today.

*sniff*

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

You didn't answer the question and then you make false allegations and again intent is going to cost you thousands of dollars

rrb said...



I answered you stupid fucking questions alky.

And I mocked your dumb fucking alky ass as I did so.


Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Risk that suspect 'may begin to struggle again'

Mr Nelson stresses another element of evidence previously presented to the court.

He says Minneapolis officers must consider "the possibility that a suspect may begin to struggle again" even if they have been subdued.

He says that reasonable officers understand that suspects can feign serious medical events to get out of being arrested.

"If they're talking it means they're breathing," he quotes other officers as saying.



Minneapolis police's 'ground defence principles'

Mr Nelson presents a sheet he says contains the guidelines Chauvin was subject to as a Minneapolis police officer.




"These are the tactics that have been employed by the Minneapolis police department for 15 years," Mr Nelson says.

"Why? Because it's safer for the officers and it's safer for the suspects."

The defense is doing well but enough?????

Anonymous said...

Roger, RRB did answer your question.

The fact that You failed to accept it, does change the facts.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

You think that if George Floyd was my DNA he would be alive today!

rrb said...



No alky.

If Junkie followed the officers instructions he MIGHT be alive today. The LETHAL amount of Fentanyl in his system not withstanding.

Had he made it home he would've been dead that night anyway.

Anonymous said...

"Beyond a Reasonable doubt "

This is the standard for any conviction.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Why did they give him a direct order to get out of the car??????

rrb said...



He says Minneapolis officers must consider "the possibility that a suspect may begin to struggle again" even if they have been subdued.

Ain't second guessing awesome? It's almost like the ROE's our soldiers had to follow under 0linsky in Iraq and Shithole-istan.

If you always stand the chance of being put on trial for murder, who the fuck would want to be a cop?

This is the level of genius only "alky stupid" can muster.




.


Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The crowd size is not a reason to restrain him from nine minutes and twenty five seconds

rrb said...

Blogger Roger Amick said...

Why did they give him a direct order to get out of the car??????


Because he had committed a crime and there was a complaint against him by a merchant for trying to pass off a counterfeit $20.

Why are you so fucking stupid, alky?

This ain't rocket science. If a cop suspects you of committing a crime and decides to detain your ass, COMPLY. And if you're jacked up on Fentanyl and several other substances, that's YOUR FUCKING PROBLEM. Not the cop's.





Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The defense is saying the a reasonable officer would act to restrain the suspect. But we will see.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Defence seeks to focus on witnesses' 'perception or perspective'

Mr Nelson, Chauvin's defence lawyer, attempts to persuade the jury that portions of the evidence as presented by witnesses was based on "perception or perspective".

An example includes an emergency worker who believed she saw urine coming from Mr Floyd, but that the fluid turned out to be leaking from a car.

He suggests that at least some of the testimony witnesses presented was because they were "upset".

Reasonable doubt is not happening right now


rrb said...



Now that I think about it, Junkie Floyd missed a golden opportunity. He could've had a shot at American Airlines "Hurry! Hire a bunch of black pilots in a big assed hurry." program.

Commander-in-Thief Biden said...

Caleb Hull
https://twitter.com/CalebJHull/status/1384174111979556867

Kamala Harris is live right now and not a single network is covering it live. Not even CSPAN.

It's got to be the laugh

Myballs said...

Like I said, I've been on two juries. There certainly is reasonable doubt.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

In hostile environment, miss signs, agonal breathing mistaken for proper breathing, extremely difficult to perform CPR in hostile environment, more difficult to focus, worried about safety, miss signs, the distraction can actually do harm to the patient.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

He hasn’t gotten to the issue which experts have said likely give him the best chance for reasonable doubt — cause of death.

Tobin and other medical experts said that he died of asphyxiation

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

He's going to address the cause of death in a few minutes

C.H. Truth said...

A question they never asked is why did they pull him out of the car and put him face down for nine minutes and twenty five seconds?

He was ordered out of his car because he committed a crime and the clerk called the police. That is how things work.

Otherwise watch the video. He wasn't on the street until they couldn't get him in the back of the police cruiser.

So eventually got him into the back of the police car on the sidewalk side (after opening up all of the car doors so he didn't feel claustrophobic) and Floyd rolled through and out the other side. Floyd did that on his own.

He was never "ordered" to the street or pulled out of the police car. He ended up on the street because that is where he chose to be.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Reasonable doubt about intent is not going to help the defense.

What evidence is INCONSISTENT with intent?


Some facts and circumstances, in context of aiding and abetting.


First, officers know they are being video taped, by THEMSELVES, by BYSTANDERS, surveilled by MPD Milestone camera. They know these things. Do you do something purposefully that you know is an unlawful use of force, when you have four BWC immediately in area, multiple civilians video taping you, know actions being reviewed through a city owned camera?


Do people things intentionally and purposefully when they know they are being watched.


Remember, Officer Lane offered to sit with Floyd, I'll put the window down, I'll put the air conditioning on.

Share

a few seconds ago

What evidence is INCONSISTENT with intent?


Some facts and circumstances, in context of aiding and abetting.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Okay I will check it out and at least you didn't act like this racist rodent bastard.


Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The defense is probably going to get acquittal from murder charges.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

It is in Derek Chauvin’s best interest to ask the jury to determine the relevancy of multiple possible factors in George Floyd's death — the more the better.

rrb hate Tobin

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

He said that they are not credible.

rrb said...

Blogger Roger Amick said...

Reasonable doubt about intent is not going to help the defense.


So you're saying that the jury is stupid enough or biased enough (or both) to conclude that Chauvin INTENDED to kill Junkie Floyd?

Seriously, alky?

rrb said...



But it was Lydia who was the bi-polar one, eh alky?

LOL.

Caliphate4vr said...

Alky is it your opinion that any perp that claims they are claustrophobic are to be set free?

rrb said...

Anonymous Caliphate4vr said...

Alky is it your opinion that any perp that claims they are claustrophobic are to be set free?


Yep. The simple claim of "I can't breathe" is an instant get out of jail free card...

...as long as they are BLACK.

Kill all the WHITE claustrophobics you want.


C.H. Truth said...

Roger... you all of a sudden seem upset by the idea that Minnesota manslaughter requires more than just simple negligence (as explained in jury instructions).

Why are you upset?

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

He's saying that the state government of Minnesota pressured Baker to issue the second autopsy report saying that he was murdered.
Because!


They didn't like Baker's original conclusion.





Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Of course not. Negligence is one factor under the law of Minnesota manslaughter charges.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

I'm not emotional about this, because unlike you I can be objective.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

They are trying to discredit the other medical professionals. We will see.

Unlike other people I'm looking at the evidence not getting angry about this

rrb said...

Blogger Roger Amick said...

I'm not emotional about this, because unlike you I can be objective.



Sure, Alky As you were screaming 'MURDER!!!!!!!!!!!!' the day it fucking happened.

LOL.

rrb said...

Blogger Roger Amick said...

He's saying that the state government of Minnesota pressured Baker to issue the second autopsy report saying that he was murdered.
Because!



Baker had nothing to do with the second report, alky. That was private, conducted by Baden and that racist bitch.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Defense attorney Nelson told the jury that witness perception of Floyd’s death might not fully capture what happened last May.
“At the end of the case, when we’re done with these arguments, the court will instruct you on how to deal with these biases and the perception issues,” he told the jury. “The court’s final instructions will guide you to try to recognize your biases, recognize what we bring to the table and analyze the evidence from the perspective of the evidence itself.”

C.H. Truth said...

Baker did not release multiple autopsy reports.

He wrote an initial report based solely on the medical findings, autopsy, toxicology, etc...

After everything was documented, he watched the video tape and then wrote the brief summary you see at the top.


He had stated (and testified) that had he not viewed the tape that he would have assumed either Fentanyl overdose or his coronary heart condition were the cause of death.

After viewing the tape, he added the portion about the police arrest and restraint. So it wasn't really two reports. It was just that under normal circumstances you don't worry about what happened when someone dies.


My mother was in advanced stages of COPD and some other respiratory diseases when she died. In the middle of the night she obviously got up, fell, hit her head on the floor and died. There was even some blood. Did she fall because of lack of oxygen? Did she fall and lost consciousness without her oxygen tube? Either is possible.

But the cause of death was not listed as the fall, but the COPD. Almost all heart diseased (arrests, etc) involve something else that probably spurred it on... but the underlying heart disease is seen as the cause of death.


That would be the one unusual thing about this. If it really was a heart disease or an overdose that led to Floyd's death, then the ending should not have been listed on the autopsy as it was.

He basically stated under oath that it was the underlying conditions and that the arrest, struggle, and restraint was just more than his heart and body could bear under the circumstance of his underlying health and drug intoxication.

Anonymous said...

This is bazzare, not as bazzare as Lydia forcing Roger Amuck to sell his guns.

"just wasn't able to comply"

Do tell, exactly why is it Georgie Felon Floyd could not "comply"?

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Yes he released a statement, not a complete second autopsy report. He watched the videos after he released the original autopsy showed drugs were the major cause of death.

But you should understand how things work that a person can reconsider their earlier reports are based upon further analysis and evidence.

I don't think it discredits him.

Do you?

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Officer Derek Chauvin “had to know” he was squeezing the life out of George Floyd as the Black man cried out over and over that he couldn’t breathe and finally fell silent, a prosecutor told jurors Monday as closing arguments began at Chauvin's murder trial.

“Use your common sense. Believe your eyes. What you saw, you saw,” Steve Schleicher said, referring to the excruciating bystander video of Floyd pinned to the pavement with Chauvin's knee on or close to his neck last May for up to 9 minutes, 29 seconds, as bystanders yelled at the white officer to get off.

Closing arguments began with Minneapolis on edge against a repeat of the violence that erupted in the city and around the U.S. last spring over Floyd's death.

The defense contends the 46-year-old Floyd died of underlying heart disease and his illegal use of fentanyl and methamphetamine.

Personally I don't think they will have a reasonable doubt on manslaughter.

But I'm not actually going to project again Kerry in a landslide.
Lolololololololololol

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/1018128/16

C.H. Truth said...

Roger...

You do realize that Baker's report and his testimony was helpful to the defense (even if he was called by the State).

For the most part Nelson is holding up Baker as the objective witness in all of this. Even telling the jury that they need to take "expert witness" bias into to play.

If it was up to what Baker's report stated... Chauvin would not have been charged.


The entire concept of this. The entire argument is that Floyd did NOT die of arrest (as Baker suggested) - but rather from asphyxia as the state "expert" witnesses suggested.

Because if he died of cardiac arrest, then it means that the cardio disease, excited delirium, and the drugs in his system are the main underlying reasons that he died. The arrest, the struggle with police, and ultimately the restraint was too stressful for his unhealthy heart, unhealthy cardio, and drug saturated blood to take.


The prosecution witnesses argued positional asphyxia because that placed the main cause of death on Chauvin. None of those other conditions come into play if he was choked or crushed to death.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Once again second degree manslaughter is a difficult task to provide reasonable doubt. Unless the defense completely discredits Tobin and other experts.

14

609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.

A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another;

C.H. Truth said...

Officer Derek Chauvin “had to know” he was squeezing the life out of George Floyd as the Black man cried out over and over that he couldn’t breathe and finally fell silent, a prosecutor told jurors Monday as closing arguments began at Chauvin's murder trial

But if it had been a white man, then it would not have been murder, huh?

I mean cops can shoot an unarmed white woman posing no immediate threat to anyone and get away with it. You cannot even arrest a black man without being charged with murder.


Which of course, Roger... is the underlying deal here right? This is just another means to "cancel" the idea of arresting black people in general. Fear of going to jail if some unhealthy drug addict dies while being arrested.

C.H. Truth said...

Roger...

That guy who sits with the black robe and sort of runs things... stated that the state still must prove that Chauvin intended to create a dangerous situation with actions that he would understand might case death or great bodily harm.

This is different from a 3rd degree manslaughter that many states have, where you can be found guilty of manslaughter for pure negligence.


What is the difference between culpable negligence and just negligence? Basically the former requires proof of intent to commit a dangerous act whereas latter means that same dangerous situation was due to lack of judgement.


So lack of good judgement (or he should have known better) would be enough to convict in most states that offer a pure negligent manslaughter. In Minnesota you need to prove he made a conscious decision to be reckless and dangerous.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Color doesn't matter Scott asshole. Even the prosecution used race. But you don't understand shit anymore

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Prosecution final response by an African American lawyer.

His race is irrelevant except for you know who

Believe your eyes, was what you thought about it, it was homicide.


Reasonable officers, not magic words. Reasonable is as reasonable does.


Here you didn't get the whole truth,


Whole narrative cut off before point where Floyd not moving, not conscious, didn't have a pulse, and Chauvin still on him when EMT shows up, and still doesn't get off him.

Share

a few seconds ago

Believe your eyes, was what you thought about it, it was homicide.


Reasonable officers, not magic words. Reasonable is as reasonable does.


Here you didn't get the whole truth,


Whole narrative cut off before point where Floyd not moving, not conscious, didn't have a pulse, and Chauvin still on him when EMT shows up, and still doesn't get off him.

Share

2 minutes ago

The 46th witness, only saw 45, but there is a 46th, is "common sense."


Not that complicated in what it is you have to decide with respect to excessive use of force, and causation.


So simple a child could understand it, in fact a child did understand it, when 9-year-old says get off of him.


Why continue applying deadly restraint to a man not breathing, no pulse, and do that for another three pulse minutes until ambulance shows up, and then to continue doing it?


Myballs said...

If his race is irrelevant, why are you pointing it out?

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Second degree manslaughter in this case

14

609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.

A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or

(2) by shooting another with a firearm or other dangerous weapon as a result of negligently believing the other to be a deer or other animal; or

(3) by setting a spring gun, pit fall, deadfall, snare, or other like dangerous weapon or device; or

(4) by negligently or intentionally permitting any animal, known by the person to have vicious propensities or to have caused great or substantial bodily harm in the past, to run uncontrolled off the owner's premises, or negligently failing to keep it properly confined; or

(5) by committing or attempting to commit a violation of section 609.378 (neglect or endangerment of a child), and murder in the first, second, or third degree is not committed thereby.

If proven by a preponderance of the evidence, it shall be an affirmative defense to criminal liability under clause (4) that the victim provoked the animal to cause the victim's death.

Unless the jurors comes to a divided decision on Officer Chauvin's negligence.

Doctor Baker said it was enough to cause his death.

I honestly don't know how they will decide.

I would believe the experienced witnesses I guilty of second degree manslaughter.

Caliphate4vr said...

If his race is irrelevant, why are you pointing it out?

Constantly

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

I didn't being up race until Scott and Jimmy Hitler KKK said he was a pathetic black drug addict.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Newsmax said it https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/1018128/16

Anonymous said...

Roger is a very emotional effeminate male.

Prone to outbursts and rage.

C.H. Truth said...

Color doesn't matter Scott asshole.

Then why did YOU bring it up in your comment by referring to Floyd as the "black man".

anonymous said...

The goat fucker continues to troll like the sick little old lady he is!!!!!!! BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Nelson lost his mind in his final testimony today.


'Cookies' and 'space aliens' used in defense close.

During a closing argument that lasted well over two hours, Derek Chauvin's attorney Eric Nelson used two unusual analogies to animate his defense.

Explaining what he tells his clients when he first meets with them, Nelson said that "a criminal case is kind of like baking chocolate chip cookies."

"You've got to have flour and sugar and butter and chocolate chips," Nelson explained. "If you have all of the ingredients, you can make chocolate chip cookies. But if you're missing any one single ingredient, you can't make chocolate chip cookies."

"Criminal law works the same way," he added. "The state has the burden of proving each and every element beyond a reasonable doubt."

Later, Nelson gave an example of what would not be considered reasonable.

“Space aliens flew in and inhibited the body of Derek Chauvin and caused this death,” Nelson said.




Anonymous said...

Minnesota Elected Officials are requesting that other non-state citizens leave .
The Minnesota Elected Officials are the interlopers as causing hate and discontent.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The only reason I saw black man was because Newsmax actually said it

C.H. Truth said...

1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another

Roger... why do you keep reposting this as if you understand it better than others.

I did not watch either of the closings (really don't have that amount of time) - but can manage to keep up with the transcripts just by looking from time to time.

But I DID watch the jury instructions.


I trust what the Judge stated about culpable negligence and that it requires a the state to at least prove that there was an intent by Chauvin to create a dangerous situation that he would know would lead to death or great bodily injury.

It still feels like you are ONLY seeing the word "negligence" here. Even if someone concedes that he showed a lack of judgement, that is not culpable negligence as defined by Minnesota law.

Yeah, bad judgment. Suspect dead. Could be third degree manslaughter if that degree existed in Minnesota.

But in order to prove second degree you have to go above and beyond bad judgement (or he should have known better). You have to prove that what he did was at least some what intentional and that he understood that he was creating the dangerous situation.


Either way, Roger...state still has the problem of convincing everyone that none of the other factors listed on the death certificate were enough to make them a significant factor in his death. You have to convince them that Chauvin was more to blame than the underlying conditions.

That gets us right back to cardiopulmonary arrest vs asphyxia.

rrb said...



Which of course, Roger... is the underlying deal here right? This is just another means to "cancel" the idea of arresting black people in general. Fear of going to jail if some unhealthy drug addict dies while being arrested.

That's what I've been saying for a while now. Fuck these animals. Red line their ghetto's and let them go fucking wild.

Anonymous said...

Roger is easily confused.

"You've got to have flour and sugar and butter and chocolate chips," Nelson explained. "If you have all of the ingredients, you can make chocolate chip cookies. But if you're missing any one single ingredient, you can't make chocolate chip cookies."

It is clear what the defense attorney is pointing out to the Jury.

Commander-in-Thief Biden said...

The Hill
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1384237997277663233

#BREAKING: Officer Sicknick had two strokes, died of natural causes after Capitol riot http://hill.cm/2FRDXAC



Another FAKE NEWS story about the "insurrection" proves false.

Now who shot Ashli Babbitt in cold blood ?

Why is this being hidden ???

FAKE NEWS

enemy of the people

rrb said...

Blogger Roger Amick said...

I didn't being up race until Scott and Jimmy Hitler KKK said he was a pathetic black drug addict.


From the previous thread, alky liar...


Blogger rrb said...


Junkie's race is YOUR hang up alky. Not mine.

He could be a blonde-haired, blue-eyed Swede for all I care.



Stop LYING alky.


Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The prosecution has said that because he kept pressing on his back, shoulder and neck for over three minutes after he quit breathing, he intended to kill George Floyd.

The judge did not deny the case.

rrb said...

Blogger Roger Amick said...

The only reason I saw black man was because Newsmax actually said it



LIAR.

You were calling for Chauvin to be brought up on homicide charges the day it happened BECAUSE Junkie Floyd was black.

Had that been some piece of white trash you could not have cared less.

You jump on ALL these fucking stoopid liberal bandwagons because the "victims" are BLACK.

Goddamned lying idiot.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The prosecution has said that because he kept pressing on his back, shoulder and neck for over three minutes after he quit breathing, he intended to kill George Floyd.

Will it convict him???

rrb said...

Blogger Roger Amick said...

The prosecution has said that because he kept pressing on his back, shoulder and neck for over three minutes after he quit breathing, he intended to kill George Floyd.



Thanks for proving just how desperate the state is and just how weak their case is.

That claim is absolutely fucking preposterous, and it requires a drama queen moron like YOU to believe it alky.

LOL.

THWAP!!!



Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

This thread is on the trail not previous comments.

Stay on the topic not what I said a year ago asshole.

rrb said...



Go fuck yourself alky. You Lydia-beating piece of shit.



THWAP!!!


Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

You are incapable of thinking

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

It's in the hands of the jury.

The defense is making nonsense according to the judge

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The defense is setting up an appeal to higher courts.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

He's trying to get a mistrial by the judge because the jury wasn't sequestered.


Right now

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Mistrial was denied by the judge

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

I'm saving this

rrbApril 19, 2021 at 3:59 PM



Go fuck yourself alky. You Lydia-beating piece of shit.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Still a very difficult circumstance.

WASHINGTON – U.S. Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick died from strokes a day after the Jan. 6 insurrection, the D.C. medical examiner ruled Monday.

The chief medical examiner, Francisco Diaz, ruled the death from natural causes rather than a homicide committed by another person. Diaz found that Sicknick, 42, died from "acute brainstem and cerebellar infarcts due to acute basilar artery thrombosis."

Diaz released a timeline saying Sicknick was sprayed about 2:20 p.m. on Jan. 6, collapsed about 10 p.m. and then died at a hospital about 9:30 p.m. on Jan. 7.

The cause of Sicknick’s death was of great interest to legal authorities and lawmakers, as he was one of five people associated with the riot who died.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

It's in the hands of the jury.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

What a snowflake.

Using is own words proved Roger Amuck lied.

His response when caught.

"Roger AmickApril 19, 2021 at 3:59 PM

This thread is on the trail not previous comments.

Stay on the topic not what I said.."



Anonymous said...

Roger Tell us what the Judge say about Mad Maxine Waters?

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Scott basically said that the judge wanted him to be convicted.


Unfuckingly crazy mothrf***r

C.H. Truth said...

Scott basically said that the judge wanted him to be convicted.

Why do you lie so much Roger?

Anonymous said...

Roger Amuck lies because his real life is an unmitigated disaster.

Commonsense said...

The cause of Sicknick’s death was of great interest to legal authorities and lawmakers, as he was one of five people associated with the riot who died.

But not like the result of direct action of the demonstrators. Which means the DOJ has very little in the way of a case.

Caliphate4vr said...


Blogger Roger Amick said...
This thread is on the trail not previous comments.


Trail??

You really need to look into a newer flip phone, one that can translate opiate slur to English