Friday, April 9, 2021

Defense introduces studies showing the safety of prone positions...

Will the prosecution introduce studies showing prone position is lethal?


Of course that is an entirely rhetorical question. If the prosecution had studies showing that the police approved and often used "prone position" was deadly, they would have led with that. In fact, they never would have bothered with the idea that Floyd was choked or that Chauvin was improperly administering the neck restraint. They would have just suggested the the prone position itself was the killer from the get-go. 

But as you recall, both of the State's own use of force experts testified that the restraint as designed is not lethal. Moreover, after looking at all the different camera angles they were able to conclude that Chauvin's knee position was also not "lethal". That testimony is consistent with both police procedures and the studies that the defense is providing. The defense is wrapping up that little bow before they even get to their own defense.

At this point the new line of medical testimony is in many ways putting the police department's use of the prone position at trial as much as the officers who used it. While there is still an argument that the prone position was misused, much of what these medical experts are arguing would be valid even under the textbook use of the tactic. 

As McCarthy argued yesterday this case is becoming less about whether the actions of the officers were something akin to brutality and is becoming more about whether the police provided the correct amount of care under the circumstance. McCarthy's point is spot on. Whether you think Chauvin is a killer or a stand up cop, the facts remain the same. Floyd died and no medical care was offered by any of the officers. The fact that he apparently was held down for a period of time after he had passed away is still a horrible and damning fact, regardless of "why" he died. 

So the question becomes whether or not a jury will want to punish Chauvin for Floyd's death, even if they no longer believe that he "choked him" or even did anything intentional to cause the death. The question is how they see the refusal to check his pulse, turn him over, or even take notice that the man he was holding down had died. Will this be seen as a mistake made in the heat of the moment or criminal negligence that requires him to be held accountable. 

I am one of those who has a fairly poor impression of Officer Chauvin in general. I believe that he likely suffers from little guy syndrome, became a police officer in part to make himself feel bigger, and is probably the sort of person who is more aggressive than the average person in most situations. But I am also quite convinced that he had no intention of killing anyone and certainly nothing during this trial so far has convinced me otherwise. But if I was sitting on the jury today, I might still be open to the possibility of a manslaughter conviction, all depending on how the rest of the trial lays out.

That, however, is a very complicated matter and will be addressed in a different post. 

36 comments:

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

I lie safely prone night after night,
but I don't have someone's knee in my neck.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Mr. Chauvin’s defense attorneys appear to be trying to use the medical findings to convince the jury that Mr. Floyd “was essentially a ticking time bomb, already had pre-existing conditions that made this endpoint happen, not because excessive force was used.”

The testimony this morning has made it very difficult to provide reasonable doubt.

Right now, we actually agree.

I haven't seen intent yet.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/08/us/george-floyd-cause-of-death.html

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

This is a good decision, so he didn't have any predetermined feelings about it.

Dr. Baker says he chose not to watch the videos of George Floyd’s death until after examining his body at autopsy.

So he would have just objective decisions.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

“I did not want to bias my exam by going in with any preconceived notions that might lead me down one pathway or another,” he said, adding he did watch one video shortly after his examination.
Before the autopsy, Baker said the only information he had about Floyd was that he had become unconscious while in police custody and that he had been transported to Hennepin Healthcare where he was pronounced dead.

Myballs said...

Prince Phillip dies. G.W.Bush sent condolences immediately. It took biden 4 hours to get around to it. VP Harris still hasn't. She couldn't care less. Friggin amateurs.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Dr. Baker said that medical examiners are allowed to classify the manner of death as “undetermined” if the circumstances are unclear. In this case, though, he classified George Floyd's death as “homicide.”

He said that it's his medical comment, not a legal statement.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Statement by President Joe Biden and First Lady Jill Biden on the Passing of Prince Philip of the United Kingdom

APRIL 09, 2021 • STATEMENTS AND RELEASES

On behalf of all the people of the United States, we send our deepest condolences to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, the entire Royal Family, and all the people of the United Kingdom on the death of His Royal Highness Prince Philip, the Duke of Edinburgh. Over the course of his 99-year life, he saw our world change dramatically and repeatedly. From his service during World War II, to his 73 years alongside the Queen, and his entire life in the public eye — Prince Philip gladly dedicated himself to the people of the UK, the Commonwealth, and to his family. The impact of his decades of devoted public service is evident in the worthy causes he lifted up as patron, in the environmental efforts he championed, in the members of the Armed Forces that he supported, in the young people he inspired, and so much more. His legacy will live on not only through his family, but in all the charitable endeavors he shaped.

Jill and I are keeping the Queen and Prince Philip’s children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren in our hearts during this time.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

US Vice President Kamala Harris just released a statement on the death of Prince Philip.

"His Royal Highness Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, led a long, remarkable life—the hallmarks of which were loyalty and service," Harris said.

"From his decorated service in the Royal Navy during World War II to his long marriage and partnership with Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II, he dedicated himself fully to his family, his country, and the Commonwealth. Whether he was promoting environmentalism or the wellbeing of military families, he brought a profound sense of purpose to all he did," she continued.

Harris and second gentleman Doug Emhoff also sent their condolences.

Ballsless is an amateur asshole

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Former presidents, including George W. Bush, Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama, also sent their condolences to the Queen and royal family.

“He represented the United Kingdom with dignity and brought boundless strength and support to the sovereign,” Bush said in a joint statement with his wife, Laura. “Laura and I are fortunate to have enjoyed the charm and wit of his company, and we know how much he will be missed.”

Carter posted a photo of himself visiting with the royal couple in 1997.

“We are sorry to hear that Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, has passed away,” the tweet said. “President Carter and other heads of state dined with His Royal Highness and other members of the Royal Family on May 7, 1977, while attending the G7 Summit in London.”

Obama, too, shared a snap of himself and Michelle Obama alongside the Queen and prince.

“Through his extraordinary example, His Royal Highness Prince Philip proved that true partnership has room for both ambition and selflessness — all in service of something greater,” Obama tweeted. “Our thoughts are with Her Majesty the Queen, the Royal Family, and the British people.

Caliphate4vr said...

Obama, too, shared a snap of himself and Michelle Obama alongside the Queen and prince.

There’s a shock Obunghole posting pics of himself

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The House Ethics Committee on Friday opened an investigation into Rep. Matt Gaetz over an array of alleged lawbreaking and violations of House rules stemming from a federal sex trafficking inquiry.

Among the alleged Gaetz improprieties the Ethics Committee could examine are sexual misconduct, sharing inappropriate images in the Capitol, illegal drug use and acceptance of bribes.

For the sophomore Florida Republican, the House probe is only the latest threat to his political future. It follows the news that a close associate, Joel Greenberg, is expected to plead guilty to a range of federal crimes and enter a potential cooperation deal with prosecutors that could add to the growing case against Gaetz.

The House Ethics Committee announced its probe alongside a separate announcement of an investigation into allegations of sexual harassment by Rep. Tom Reed (R-N.Y.) against a lobbyist who recently shared her story with the Washington Post.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The former looked for places to get photographs on Twitter or Foux news robotics pjmedia and etc.

Myballs said...

It's about time they got off their asses and sent these notes.

Myballs said...

Nancy Pelosi's house ethics committee. Go figure.

rrb said...


Anonymous Myballs said...

It's about time they got off their asses and sent these notes.



It doesn't get any more disrespectful than having Cum-Allah the cum dumpster send the condolences.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

To use a sports analogy, the defense point guard, missed the basket.

He wouldn't have died except for the restraints.

Dr. Baker In this case, though, he classified George Floyd's death as “homicide.”

The prosecution will probably close their case on Monday or Tuesday.

The defense may bargain for a manslaughter charge and drop the murder charges.

We will see .

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Matt Gaetz is a pedophile asshole. Only one or two other Republicans have told him to resign.

Hundreds of people in New York want Cuomo to resign after accusations of sexual harassment to women over 26,not 16 year old girls.

Caliphate4vr said...

To use a sports analogy, the defense point guard, missed the basket.

Was the defense point guard trying to shoot into his own basket??? Giving the opposition the points???

THWAP! THWAP!!

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

He went for a three point shot like when UCLA lost the game to get to the final two.

But he missed it

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Point guards often charge to the basket and dunk it asshole

C.H. Truth said...

Roger

I just read through much of the transcripts of Thomas and Baker (and checked out Legal Insurrection as well). I wrote a little about Thomas. Unlike the previous doctors, Nelson got her to admit that there was enough Fentanyl for Floyd to have overdosed and that had she (like Baker) had just looked at the body, then she would have ruled it an overdose.

That is damaging when you consider that the state has to prove that Fentanyl could not be the cause. Between her and Baker's own statements, that is two state witnesses who are admitting that Floyd had enough Fentanyl in his system to kill him.



Baker was simply not a good witness for the prosecution and the observation from Jacobson (L-I) suggested that the State couldn't wait to get him off the stand. I didn't watch it myself, but from what I read, I can see why the State wanted nothing to do with him. Likely they called him (not because he would help them) but because as a prosecution witness they can control what is asked and by proxy control the cross. Defense, could call this witness back if they so choose.

rrb said...

Blogger Roger Amick said...

Matt Gaetz is a pedophile asshole. Only one or two other Republicans have told him to resign.

Hundreds of people in New York want Cuomo to resign after accusations of sexual harassment to women over 26,not 16 year old girls.



Cuomo has 9, (or is it 10?) credible accusers, alky.

How many does Gaetz have?

There's the difference, you fucking invalid asshole.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

You choose to agree with someone else who agrees with you Scott.

Take a look at other sources, including a few Republicans who don't agree with you.

I make a point of reading both sides of view. But you don't want to be Thecoldheartedtruth anymore.

Anonymous said...

"Matt Gaetz is a pedophile" Alky

We really should ask James, after all he has the experience in this area.

Anonymous said...

60 minutes to Air Gov. Cuomo interview next Sunday in what is reported to be a tough piece.

C.H. Truth said...

For one, Baker disagreed with the notion that Chauvin's knee cut off the airway (as suggested by another doctor with the hypopharynx references). While he does suggest that the death was a "multi-factorial process" and he blames the police to some degree...

His explanation of the cause of death is simply different from what the other State witnesses are otherwise offering.

Not sure how this is helpful? Perhaps they are simply trying to provide the member of the jury multiple possibilities for how Chauvin and the police are responsible. Choke, cutting off the hypopharynx, positional asphyxia, prone position problems. Every possibility except anything having to do with Floyd's own medical issues or the fact that he had a lethal amount of Fentanyl in his system (according to their own charts).


If the prosecution is ready to rest by early next week... I am going to offer that defense will feel like they are in better shape than they could have hoped at this point.


But there is no way that the State will ever drop the murder charge.

For the city of Minneapolis - they need a murder conviction or the city riots and burns to the ground.

If you are hearing a plea, Roger... then the State knows they are fucked. They cannot possibly believe that a manslaughter plea would appease anyone.

Unless they believe in that an acquittal across the board is possible.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Broke-it Biden is a no show.

"The State of the Union Address is an annual message delivered by the president of the United States to the U.S. Congress near the beginning of each calendar year on the current condition of the nation".

Anonymous said...

Unless the State can prove a cause of death that squarely puts on the Police Office, the Jury will not convict.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Mr. Broke-it Biden has the democRats leaving the stinking out house.

" Former U.S. ambassador to Mexico Roberta S. Jacobson, who was appointed by Biden to lead the diplomatic effort in Central America, will leave her position at the end of April, she revealed to the New York Times."

She wants no part of the unfolding disaster.

C.H. Truth said...

Take a look at other sources, including a few Republicans who don't agree with you.

Curious Roger...

Who are your sources that you are reading?

I would love to check their perspective. Perhaps I am missing things?

rrb said...

Curious Roger...

Who are your sources that you are reading?

I would love to check their perspective. Perhaps I am missing things?



This is just another one of the alky's bullshit proclamations. He couldn't name one if his pathetic shitpile of a nursing home life depended on it.



Caliphate4vr said...


Blogger Roger Amick said...
Point guards often charge to the basket and dunk it asshole


I know that Rog but I hope they are on offense at the time, not defense

THWAP!

Anonymous said...

Always Wrong Roger scores.

He knows nothing of sports.

Anonymous said...

So , Floyd had heart problems.

That is a fact or opinion?