This "should" be the prosecution's bread and butter and "should" actually be where they hope to finally establish a cause of death that makes sense to their case? Questions will be whether their original line of questioning has changed any since the use of force experts have pretty much undercut the theory that Chauvin administered a "choke hold".
I would have probably expected that at these some of these witnesses are there to largely undercut the theory that George Floyd died of a drug overdose. However, the first witness called seems to be more of a respiratory and ventilation guy, meaning he will probably be testifying as to why he believes it was strangulation.
Will we hear more about positional asphyxia from this guy?
Update: We are only a few minutes into this testimony, but it certainly appears that this witness is testifying to something more akin to the positional asphyxia than any sort of neck strangulation. While he is providing a lesson on neck anatomy and is claiming (incorrectly based on the other witness testimony) that the knee is on the neck, it appears to be just one part of the greater reasoning for why Floyd suffered from asphyxia.
Tobin is suggesting that the knee pressure applied to the back of the neck can cause a blockage of the hypopharynx. I don't believe that this particular reasoning was part of either of the two autopsies. In fact, the original autopsy made the point in saying that there was no physical evidence of damage that would consistent with this sort of strangulation death.
There have been quite a few sidebars, most called by the judge. Exabits are being offered that had not been previously provided? Shocking!!
Update: I will say, the most impressive thing about this particular doctor is his ability to accurately measure the CO2 rate, heart rates, and other vital body function measurements all from watching video. Not like they had a CO2 monitor or heart rate monitor on Floyd while he died to actually know any of this. In fact, at one point he even suggested that the ER doctor (who personally examined Floyd) was likely wrong about some of this based on his own personal findings.... from viewing a video. Amazing stuff.
Too bad we could not clone this guy and have these clones of him just watching patients. Wouldn't even need to be there. Could monitor multiple patients from one location via close circuit. Imagine how much money they would save on all that expensive equipment hospitals use to track these sorts of vitals.
Final update on doctor Tobin: I might argue that all in all this was the best actual witness so far for the prosecution. At the very least he attempted to provide an opinion that it was the police officers who killed Floyd, something that other witnesses were never even asked. That being said, this particular doctor seems less inclined to blame the knee as the major contributor, rather suggesting that a variety of physical factors led to his death. I believe this is part of an overall shift in strategy for the prosecution who are looking more at "positional asphyxia" than the death occurring direction from strangulation or the knee. The idea of positional asphyxia is not entirely new (the paid autopsy does suggest that factors other than the knee were in play) - but I believe that the deemphasis on the knee to the neck is a required strategy at this point.
Update Doctor Smock: Didn't like this guy as much as the previous doctor. Perhaps because of the repetitive nature of the question and answer. Seems much like how the prosecution asked multiple people at the scene the same questions, perhaps they plan on asking multiple doctors the same questions. Obviously this provides the defense the same chance to ask the same questions and look for any differenced between the testimonies that could cause reasonable doubt that one or the other is wrong.
So while it can be an effective strategy to have multiple people beat down the same points, it comes with risks from a prosecutor's standpoint when you are attempting to keep a lid on "doubt". Unless your witnesses are totally in sync, it can cause issues with which one is right and which one is wrong. There is no such thing as good doubt for he prosecution in a trial.
128 comments:
Dr. Martin J. Tobin, a pulmonologist and critical care physician from the Chicago area, was the first witness prosecutors called to the stand on Thursday.
Dr. Tobin, who attended medical school at University College Dublin, is an expert in acute respiratory failure, mechanical ventilation and neuromuscular control of breathing.
He is certified by the American Board of Internal Medicine and the American Board of Internal Medicine Subspecialty Pulmonary Disease.
All of the restraints were the cause of asphyxia and heart failure.
Insufficient oxygen was going into his blood, leading to his death of brain failure.
I want to see how these witnesses reconcile the strangulation charge with the autopsy results which showed ZERO evidence of trauma to the neck region...
NECK:
Layer by layer dissection of the anterior strap muscles of the neck discloses no areas of contusion or hemorrhage within the musculature.
The thyroid cartilage and hyoid bone are intact.
The larynx is lined by intact mucosa.
The thyroid is symmetric and red-brown, without cystic or nodular change.
The tongue is free of bite marks, hemorrhage, or other injuries.
The cervical spinal column is palpably stable and free of hemorrhage.
Five minutes and 5 seconds lead to the shortage of oxygen and damaged his brain.
He said that the other officers kneeling on his legs and torso contributed to the shortness of oxygen
LMAO @ the alky.
Furiously copying, pasting, plagiarizing...
all to convince not us, but himself.
"So you're telling me there's a chance...YEAH!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMRrNY0pxfM
The handcuffs restricted his ability to breathe into his lungs.
He's building a good story about the cause of death.
I'm watching it live now I am not reading anything
Exhibit 951 he died from a low level of oxygen and the handcuffs were crushed his ribs and not letting him breathe into his left lung.
The handcuffs restricted his ability to breathe into his lungs.
Really.
handcuffs around one's WRISTS restrict air into one's LUNGS.
That's like saying my car won't start because I have a flat tire.
Your desperation for a guilty verdict grows more palpable by the day, alky.
LOL.
He is expanding the cause of death beyond the kneeling on his neck and shoulders.
Jimmy Hitler, I telling Thecoldheartedtruth as it happens.
Because his arm was pushing on his chest, causing a shortness of oxygen into his blood.
Even a shoulder restraints were causing a shortness of breath.
I'm watching live
Blogger Roger Amick said...
Because his arm was pushing on his chest, causing a shortness of oxygen into his blood.
So...
His arms handcuffed behind his back were pushing on his chest...
I see.
LMAO.
The doctor said that the pharynx, the valve where it directs food to the stomach and air to the lungs, was compressed by kneeling on his neck and shoulders. Causing a shortage of oxygen into his lungs.
From the back of his body, it compressed his chest and again making it difficult to breathe.
This is quite literally a switch in strategy.
This guy is not suggesting that the neck restraint caused strangulation, but rather is arguing that the entire concept of being restrained was the cause. Everything from the handcuffs, to being facedown, to having his legs held to having a knee on his "neck area", etc, etc...
He is testifying that neck restraint probably caused a "restriction" of his airway by putting pressure on the "hypopharynx". But he doesn't appear to be suggesting that the knee restraint alone is what killed him. Just part of the overall cause.
This sounds like positional asphyxia more than strangulation.
Also begs the question. If Chauvin didn't kill him with the knee restraint - but rather he died because of the totality of events, then why is Chauvin the only one charged with murder?
Bathroom break
He described the neck
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/larynx#anatomy
A low level of oxygen was the cause of death.
He explained in multiple ways.
Handcuffs kneel on his back and holding him face down caused shortage of oxygen and when he was rolled over, the kneeling caused asphyxiation because of complications from his pharynx
Legal analysts are wondering why the witness is providing exhibits that were not preapproved or previously provided to defense and court.
Either very disorganized... or these are "new' exhibits because the state is suddenly shifting strategy.
Roger Amick said...
Bathroom break
Talk about anal streaming "reporting"
ROFLMFAO !!!
I guess when the defense experts go on the stand it will be over for the prosecution if they have any credentials according to roger...
Blogger Roger Amick said...
He described the neck
So did the autopsy.:
NECK:
Layer by layer dissection of the anterior strap muscles of the neck discloses no areas of contusion or hemorrhage within the musculature.
The thyroid cartilage and hyoid bone are intact.
The larynx is lined by intact mucosa.
The thyroid is symmetric and red-brown, without cystic or nodular change.
The tongue is free of bite marks, hemorrhage, or other injuries.
The cervical spinal column is palpably stable and free of hemorrhage.
Huh. NO trauma to the area in question, yet Junkie was still strangled by Chauvin.
And I'm the only one seeing the absurdity here.
LOL.
Well Roger...
After hearing the prosecutions two use of force experts and the beginning of their first medical cause of death expert... the first two admitting that the knee was neither lethal or that it was cutting of the carotid artery, and the witness today seemingly going in a different direction.
Still believing that Chauvin killed Floyd by cutting off his blood supply with a knee choke...
as you had previously argued.
Are you willing to at least admit the reality that the prosecution seems to be literally changing the specifics of their cause of death?
When this trial began, I doubt that any juror expected the prosecution to argue that whatever Derek Chauvin did was not the sole cause, or the primary cause, of George Floyd’s death, but rather a “substantial causal factor” along with a fentanyl overdose and other serious health issues. Will the jury be willing to destroy Derek Chauvin’s life and send him to prison on this theory?
That raises, once again, the question of whether Derek Chauvin can possibly get a fair trial. Everyone knows that if the jury doesn’t convict, and probably if it doesn’t convict Chauvin of murder, the city of Minneapolis will go up in flames. This is why the power of the state is arrayed so unanimously against him. Chauvin may have misjudged, may have screwed up, for four minutes on May 25, 2020. But he is being sacrificed to raisons d’État.
Everyone is against him, including his own police department. The three officers who were with Chauvin on May 25, and who also have been charged, presumably won’t testify. Their lawyers will insist that they take the 5th–as, by the way, Floyd’s drug dealer did yesterday. The dealer was with Floyd on May 25 and pled the 5th on the ground that he may be prosecuted for supplying Floyd with the overdose of fentanyl that killed him. But the jury won’t see that.
The trial so far as been the world vs. Derek Chauvin and Eric Nelson. While the “dream team” prosecution has rotated counsel from the Attorney General’s office and various high-priced lawyers from Minnesota and D.C. who are working for free, Eric Nelson, outmanned and outgunned, has stood up alone for his client. Over the last two weeks, he has grown visibly tired and yesterday he lost control over some exhibits through sheer exhaustion. (No one who hasn’t tried a jury case, even one of relatively modest length like the Chauvin trial, can understand what hard work it is.) Maybe the jury will look down on him, compared with the well-heeled prosecution team. Then again, maybe they will relate to a classic underdog story.
The trial’s result likely will come down to the medical testimony on both sides that we have not yet seen. But so far, I think Chauvin’s defense has held its own, and probably has surprised most members of the jury. The political class may have expected to usher Derek Chauvin off to a speedy oblivion for the sake of a greater good, but instead, they have a fight on their hands.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/04/the-chauvin-trial-so-far.php
Scott, maybe but homicide charges are not going away.
Intent????
Actually no. They are undermining their arguments against the cause of death.
Powerline
Geeeeeeeeezzzzzz,x
Intent???
Idiot, if 'intent' existed the charged would be Murder 1
Yeah, Chauvin woke up that day intending to murder Junkie just to break up the monotony of an otherwise boring day.
Geezus alky, you're ability comprehend this case is non-existent. You're so emotionally fucked up over this that you're hanging on every word, your opinion changing with the wind.
Yeah, alky...
Hinderaker is an actual attorney local to the case, and you're a broken down drunk locked down in a nursing home.
LOL.
THWAP!!!
Roger...
Intent must be proven to garner the 2nd degree murder. They have to prove that Chauvin did intentionally kill him or otherwise killed him while committing a different felony.
Third degree must prove a "depraved heart" where the person has a complete disregard for human life and knowingly endangers people around him with depraved actions. The best example would be shooting into a crowd of people. You are not intending to kill anyone specific, but you know your actions endangers people around you.
These are a completely different argument than suggesting that he didn't follow protocol 100% or that under 20/20 hindsight he should have done something different.
Has anyone gone in the stand and provided any testimony that suggests Officer Chauvin intended to kill Floyd or that he believed that placing a knee on the "neck area" of a 250 lb suspect was depraved behavior?
You cannot just "assume" intent, Roger. It has to be proven.
Which testimony has proven that?
This testimony was not about intent.
The testimony was an attempt to discredit defense arguments that Mr. Floyd’s drug use contributed to his death. Using video from the arrest, Dr. Tobin described how Derek Chauvin’s knees on Mr. Floyd’s neck and side and his hold on Mr. Floyd’s arms prevented Mr. Floyd from being able to breathe.
He’s jammed down against the street, and so the street is playing a major role in preventing him from expanding his chest.
The defense has been saying that the neck down wasn't sufficient evidence of asphyxiation or strangulation.
His pharynx was damaged by low level kneeling pressure, causing a shortness of oxygen into his lungs.
His pharynx was damaged by low level kneeling pressure, causing a shortness of oxygen into his lungs.
The pharynx.
How convenient.
The one part of the body not mentioned here.:
NECK:
Layer by layer dissection of the anterior strap muscles of the neck discloses no areas of contusion or hemorrhage within the musculature.
The thyroid cartilage and hyoid bone are intact.
The larynx is lined by intact mucosa.
The thyroid is symmetric and red-brown, without cystic or nodular change.
The tongue is free of bite marks, hemorrhage, or other injuries.
The cervical spinal column is palpably stable and free of hemorrhage.
Clever. Dishonest but clever.
Tobin estimated that Chauvin placed 91.5 pounds, including at least half of his body weight, solely on Floyd’s neck when the officer’s feet were off the ground.
In a graphic presented to the court, Tobin explained that since Chauvin had his heels and toes off the ground, he was pressing down nearly 100 pounds of his weight directly on the neck.
“What we’re seeing is that half of his body weight, plus half his gear weight, is coming down. That’s 91.5 pounds … coming down directly on Mr. Floyd’s neck,” Tobin said to prosecutors. “Everything is directed down on his knee.”
Tobin added that even when Chauvin’s toes were touching the ground, the officer was still placing nearly 87 pounds on Floyd’s neck.
His pharynx was damaged by nearly 87 pounds on Floyd’s neck.
THWAP THWAP rrb is low IQ racist rodent bastard
The narrowing of his pharynx, changed his ability to breathe and speak.
It might be damaging to foam caused asphyxiation, related to drug overdose.
Broken Bidenomics.
"
Initial jobless claims April 7, 744,000
⬆️ 50,000 of street expections.
It takes 85% compression on his pharynx caused asphyxiation.
This testimony was not about intent.
Well which testimony proved to you that Chauvin had intent.
You are required to objectively assume innocence, not guilt which means you cannot just "assume" intent. It would have to be proven.
So which testimony proved it for you Roger?
“What we’re seeing is that half of his body weight, plus half his gear weight, is coming down. That’s 91.5 pounds … coming down directly on Mr. Floyd’s neck,” Tobin said to prosecutors. “Everything is directed down on his knee.”
But then are we not just conveniently forgetting the testimony from the past two days that pretty much established (from the prosecutions own witnesses) that the knee was NOT actually placed directly on the neck, but rather more on the shoulder blades and lower neck "area" ????
Seriously Roger... do you do any critical thinking for yourself here?
Quit attacking me and pay attention to the fucking trial
Mr. Chauvin’s knee placed on the left side of his chest would have limited the amount of air being able to enter the left lung, Dr. Tobin said, as if “a surgeon had gone in and removed the lung,”
Quit attacking me and pay attention to the fucking trial
I have been Roger...
It's not me who has already forgotten testimony offered just yesterday.
That is you!
He said that the knees on his shoulder caused shortness of breath Scott. Watch it instead of going Insurrection dot com
🤣
I haven't been taking about yesterday asshole
Lunch time in Minneapolis
They were compressing him while he was handcuffed and caused a shortness of breath Scott.
More than the neck compression
Asphyxia was caused by the body not only his neck.
They want to provide reasonable evidence
The defense team is probably in trouble because they can't discredit him.
"Roger AmickApril 8, 2021 at 12:05 PM
Quit attacking me and pay attention to the fucking trial"
The flip flop of the suicidal Alky.
"I haven't been taking about yesterday asshole"
Scott, he said that the shoulder blades and lower neck "area" 91.5 lbs caused asphyxiation and cardiac arrest in 5 minutes and twenty?? seconds.
Blogger Roger Amick said...
I haven't been taking about yesterday asshole
So we've gone from Junkie's pharynx to his asshole?
Sorry alky, just trying to keep up with your delusional psychoses.
he said that the shoulder blades and lower neck "area" 91.5 lbs caused asphyxiation and cardiac arrest in 5 minutes and twenty?? seconds.
And now we've bounced from strangulation to a heart attack.
Follow the bouncing alky.
Scott, they are widening the causes of death. A doctor said that his breathing rate was higher than expected under the influence of fentanyl intoxication that causes a lower breath rate.
I'm not copy painting like most of you
The doctor said that his breathing rate was higher than expected under the influence of fentanyl intoxication that causes a lower breath rate.
Go suck the former's mushroom penis and swallow it
Well Rat...
The amazing thing to me is that this particular doctor is able to determine down to a very accurate level what George Floyd's vitals are during the entire process?
Did they have him hooked up to a EKG monitor or another vital sign monitor while he died?
Naaahhh... this guy doesn't need no stinking machine to tell him.
He apparently just knows from watching a video.
Makes you wonder why hospitals waste their time on all of those expensive machines that measures a patient's vitals while they are in the hospital. Would be way cheaper for doctors to just look at the patient and guess.
I mean this guy can measure vitals by watching a video!
UNEXPECTEDLY!!!
In the week ending April 3, the advance figure for seasonally adjusted initial claims was 744,000, an increase of 16,000 from the previous week's revised level. The previous week's level was revised up by 9,000 from 719,000 to 728,000.
The 4-week moving average was 723,750, an increase of 2,500 from the previous week's revised average.
The previous week's average was revised up by 2,250 from 719,000 to 721,250.
https://www.dol.gov/ui/data.pdf
Go suck the former's mushroom penis and swallow it
What? So many questions... so little sense made.
The doctor said that his breathing rate was higher than expected under the influence of fentanyl intoxication that causes a lower breath rate.
That undermined the drug overdose case of death.
Joe is about to unleash $ 7.3.Trillion in spending.
I can't resist attacking the racist rodent bastard you have never condemned him for being a racist again Asian Americans who were slants here years ago
I'm not copy painting like most of you
April 8, 2021 at 12:27 PM
Roger Amick said...
The doctor said that his breathing rate was higher than expected under the influence of fentanyl intoxication that causes a lower breath rate.
Go suck the former's mushroom penis and swallow it
Guess I could tell you were not copy painting.
And I guess the fentanyl intoxication did cause a lower breath rate.
Death.
Blogger C.H. Truth said...
Well Rat...
The amazing thing to me is that this particular doctor is able to determine down to a very accurate level what George Floyd's vitals are during the entire process?
Naaahhh... this guy doesn't need no stinking machine to tell him.
He apparently just knows from watching a video.
As with most things involving democrats, the prosecution is relying on the stupidity of the jury. It seems like the only thing in their favor so far.
They're desperate for 12 alky's to return a guilty verdict. Their case relies upon it.
And I guess the fentanyl intoxication did cause a lower breath rate.
This doctor can rule out Fentanyl as the cause because his CO2, heart rate, and other vital signs are not consistent with Fentanyl.
You know, because this doctor can tell by watching a video what Floyd's vital signs were while he died.
Blogger Roger Amick said...
I can't resist attacking the racist rodent bastard you have never condemned him for being a racist again Asian Americans who were slants here years ago
I never used the term "slants" or "slopes" for Asians, and never used the "N" word around here like YOU, alky.
However, I am a big fan of the term "beaners" and also "moose-limbs" and "ragheads."
Get it straight.
THWAP!!!
The doctor said that his breathing rate was higher than expected under the influence of fentanyl.
A fentanyl intoxication causes a lower than normal breath rate. Look it up.
His testimony has damaged the defense's claim of an drug overdose caused his death by foam,because he was breathing rapidly until he died of lack of oxygen into his lungs. He never started breathing slowly, he just quit breathing and begging for his mother.
"Roger AmickApril 8, 2021 at 12:05 PM
Quit attacking me and pay attention to the fucking trial"
then alky flip flops, again
"Blogger Roger Amick said...
I can't resist attacking"
Roger has anger control.issues
As Lydia knows all to well.
Thank God she escaped alive.
Financially ruined by Roger, but alive
Blogger Roger Amick said...
The doctor said that his breathing rate was higher than expected under the influence of fentanyl intoxication that causes a lower breath rate.
That undermined the drug overdose case of death.
The "doctor" wasn't even THERE, alky.
No self-respecting medical professional reaches the conclusions he has by watching it on TV.
He's a paid professional witness, alky.
Emphasis on "PAID."
If you think this bullshit is your path to your pre-determined 'guilty' verdict alky, you might want to prepare yourself for some disappointment.
Oh and your infatuation with Trump's 'mushroom' penis? That's just fucking SICK.
I didn't know you were a fag on top of all your others 'issues.'
He is one of the most qualified experts in the country. He got an award from The Mayo Clinic, that is given 10 years about.
Yes he is qualified by watching to determine the vital signs that lead to his death of shortage of oxygen into his lungs and causing cardiac arrest.
You are trying to discredit the best qualified experts in medical science again and again. Because you don't care about anyone else but yourself.
He was not paid.
He volunteered to testify!!!!!!
Well Rat...
I strongly suspect that the defense will present a doctor who specializes in drug overdoses that will likely have a different opinion as to how someone might die from and overdose.
Also, one might suspect that the fact that Floyd was under arrest and possibly struggling with excited delirium and therefor might not react the same way someone who shot themselves up with heroin and died lying on a couch might.
But of course, once the defense puts on their case, I am quite certain that Roger will no longer view those witnesses with the same degree of credibility he is providing the prosecution's witnesses. No doubt they will all be hacks and suddenly Roger will be a medical expert capable of explaining to us why they are all wrong.
Unlike many experts called to testify in cases, Tobin said he is not being paid. He said he has testified in dozens of malpractice cases, but this is his first time as a witness in a criminal proceeding.1 hour ago
m.startribune.com
Yes he is qualified by watching to determine the vital signs that lead to his death of shortage of oxygen into his lungs and causing cardiac arrest.
Well again Roger...
makes you wonder why hospitals spend millions on the sort of machines that measure vitals for them.
if, in fact, doctors can just look at someone and determine CO2 levels, blood pressure, heart rate, etc...
But I guess all the other doctors who rely on machines are just not as qualified as this guy, who once got an award 10 years ago.
Unlike you, I will pay attention to the defense response this afternoon.
The defense doesn't have an expert scheduled yet.
The defense is probably going crazy because the testimony destroyed their claim of drug overdose caused his death because the doctor Tobin volunteered to testify. Because he thought it was important. He is not a political person.
You are trying to discredit the best qualified experts in medical science just like when you said it was a great hoax and making was a Democratic hoax. Because you think you know more than anyone else but yourself.
Sorry Roger...
I am not the one claiming I can measure vital signs from a video. I am pretty sure I could barely measure them using the machine.
I am more wondering when the defense calls a medical expert to say George Floyd died of an overdose, if you are going to claim to be smarter than that person. The original medical examiner will likely be called and testify that he saw none of the physical signs associated with any of this mechanical asphyxiation. Are you going to believe him or dismiss him (or have you already dismissed him)?
More to the point Roger... there are at least four or five competing opinions on why George Floyd died. Most of those opinions are held by very qualified doctors, it's just that not all of these doctors agree.
When a slew of doctors all disagree, Roger... what does that prove for certain?
You are trying to discredit the best qualified experts in medical science again and again. Because you don't care about anyone else but yourself.
The guy discredits himself by claiming he can offer an accurate professional medical conclusion based upon body cam or smartphone video.
His opinion is worth exactly what he's being paid for it.
When a slew of doctors all disagree, Roger... what does that prove for certain?
REASONABLE DOUBT.
Tobin a Chicago-based physician who is a renowned expert on pulmonology (medical issues involving the lungs and respiratory system), testified that Floyd died of a low level of oxygen.
Tobin said Floyd's "shallow breaths weren't able to carry air through his lungs, down to the essential areas of the lungs that get oxygen into the blood and get rid of carbon dioxide."
The other police officers knelt down on his back and compressed his lungs. No foam.
Unlike many experts called to testify in cases, Tobin said he is not being paid. He said he has testified in dozens of malpractice cases, but this is his first time as a witness in a criminal proceeding.
It depends upon one thing.
If the defense doesn't provide a Medical Doctor, it will be difficult
"the Best"
Always Wrong Roger, scores again.
Defense attorney is struggling.
The low level of oxygen caused his death not a drug overdose.
The defense is talking about neck compression
Eric Nelson, Derek Chauvin’s lawyer, starts by pointing out that Dr. Martin J. Tobin didn’t accept a fee to testify for the state. The lack of payment, experts say, can cut both ways. On one hand, not accepting payment can bolster the witness’ testimony because it shows he wasn’t paid for it. On the other hand, as Nelson hopes to imply, it could suggest the witness has such a strong opinion – therefore bias – about the case that he is willingly to do it for free.
Just like Scott lolololololololololol
The doctor said that if he quit talking, he could be dead in 10 seconds.
dr. martin tobin, will take his "free testimony " and write a book.
Roger is so naive.
He is a wealthy man asshole kputz shut up
Derek Chauvin's lawyer here is to do whatever he can to obfuscate Dr. Martin J. Tobin’s findings and in essence confuse the jury – make them think that what Dr. Tobin said in the morning with so much certitude might be more complicated. One line of attack: pointing to the autopsy’s findings that there was no bruising on George Floyd’s neck.
the defense has put forward is that when George Floyd said he couldn’t breathe, the very fact he was speaking meant he could breathe. Tobin says that is irrelevant because a few seconds after someone says they can’t breathe, they can be dead.
Chauvin is charged with second-degree murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter in Floyd's death. The defense argues Floyd died as a result of the drugs in his system and underlying medical issues, but prosecutors say Floyd was killed by Chauvin's knee on his neck for more than nine minutes.
dr. martin tobin, will take his "free testimony " and write a book.
Roger is so naive.
He is going to use his time around this case to profit .
Dr. Martin J. Tobin.
"Has not released his net worth".
Roger said "He is a wealthy man"
Really, post his net worth.
Surely you know it.
Blogger KansasDemocrat said...
Dr. Martin J. Tobin.
"Has not released his net worth".
Roger said "He is a wealthy man"
Really, post his net worth.
Surely you know it.
April 8, 2021 at 2:13 P
Think about it, for anyone that has more than a room, a TV and WiFi is wealthy, to Alky
Cali
"Think about it, for anyone that has more than a room, a TV and WiFi is wealthy, to Alky"
Good point.
Scott, ask kputz to quit saying alky etc.
Scott, ask kputz to quit saying alky etc.
Would that be the Scott you reference several times daily as Scott Asshole?
THWAP! THWAP!!
Insurrection said. Scott's favorite bullhorn.
After all, how does fentanyl kill? By depressing respiratory function. That is, by chemical induction of asphyxia. Which eventually, of course, will result in cardiac arrest. Which is how Floyd died.
The actual expert said
The doctor said that his breathing rate was higher than expected under the influence of fentanyl intoxication that causes a lower breath rate.
That undermined the drug overdose case of death.
We will see
Alky, why are you such a little skirt wearing sissy bitch.
You don't own a man-card.
Nelson got the witness to admit that the idea that just because someone is talking doesn't mean they can breath is even a mistake made by intelligent doctors who have years of schooling, training, and experience.
He also made many points as to the sheer number of hours this person put in (for free) on this case. Hundreds of hours, according to the doctor.
Why ask this?
Because it shows that this particular sort of 20/20 hindsight (even if correct) has no bearing on what a police officer would or would not do in that particular situation.
Nelson is pounding on the idea that everyone of these witnesses is providing 20/20 hindsight without a clue as what actually happens in this situation.
The one who had recent experience on the job, actually admitted that he to had found cause to hold someone in a restrained position for ten minutes or so in his own experience.
A well established medical expert spending 100s of hours going over the details of a police officers spur of the moment on the scene judgement call seems sort of excessive, especially the concept that the prosecution keeps beating on (that taking doesn't mean breathing) is something that even medical doctors miss.
That being said:
I was surprised by the short cross of this particular doctor. To the degree that it was effective I will leave that opinion to others. But I am not sure if I was sitting on the jury and tha guy comes in with all of those calculations, charts, etc... provides me with the idea that I should fault a Mpls Police officer for not following his 20/20 hindsight guidelines.
Not to mention, I think that this guy is way too full of himself and I am still floored that he believes he can judge certain vital signs. What was interesting was that his calculations/estimates turned out wrong according to some of the numbers Nelson provided.
Roger, are you going to post Dr. Martin J. Tobin net worth.
You claimed you knew he is wealthy.
CHT, Roger is pleading with you to have us stop being so hard on him.
The actual expert said
The doctor said that his breathing rate was higher than expected under the influence of fentanyl intoxication that causes a lower breath rate.
Alky the fentanyl was mixed with METH
Fuck
Systemic administration of METH in anaesthetised rats reduced the effectiveness of some protective cardiorespiratory reflexes, increased central respiratory activity independently of metabolic function, and increased heart rate, metabolism and respiration in a pattern indicating that non‐shivering thermogenesis contributes to the well‐described hyperthermia.
THWAP! THWAP
Nelson did go over the fact that not only was Floyd on Fentanyl but also on Meth and that Street Fentanyl and prescription Fentanyl may not aways react the same way. He brought up other reasons why the heart rate may not have decreased under the circumstance.
I wasn't fond of the idea that Nelson let the Coma thing go. I have found nothing to suggest that every opioid death is preceded by a coma (which by nature is a prolonged state of unconsciousness). It seems from cursory research that coma and brain injuries are possible outcomes from opioid overdose, but at a certain point enough of the drug will just kill you outright. There are numerous examples of people basically dropping dead from an Opioid overdose.
I am guessing he has his own experts that will repute that later on.
The higher breathing rate is a significant factor to discredit the overdose caused death.
If they are not experienced doctors, the prosecution will quickly question their qualifications.
Day nine might be interesting tomorrow morning
The S&P 500 rose to another record high on Thursday amid a strong rally in major technology stocks.
The broad equity benchmark gained 0.4% to hit an all-time high after closing at a record in the previous session. The tech-heavy Nasdaq Composite rallied 0.9% as the FAANG shares of Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix and Google-parent Alphabet were all about 1% higher. The Dow Jones Industrial Average was flat. Despite Sleepy Joe is the unquestioned President, according to....Jones
S&P 500 notches another record high as major tech stocks gain
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/07/stock-futures-inch-higher-after-sp-500-marks-another-record-close.html?__source=androidappshare
Blogger Roger Amick said...
The higher breathing rate is a significant factor to discredit the overdose caused death.
Which crevice of your cavernous and wrinkled old ass did you pull this little gem from, Dr. Alky?
I mentioned this before.
Clear back in 1974, I tried meth twice and I lost a couple friends because of it
Clear back in 1974, I tried meth twice and I lost a couple friends because of it
By friends you mean Mr Incisor and Mr Canine?
Fentanyl and meth his freaking body didn’t know how to react.
He was probably vibrating
Roger AmickApril 8, 2021 at 3:14 PM
I mentioned this before.
Clear back in 1974, I tried meth twice and I lost a couple friends because of it"
Alky is a life long addict.
And you know good and well this wasn’t Walter White’s meth, there’s no telling what it was cut and made with
Roger, you simply have no idea what Dr. Martin J. Tobin net worth is.
You make shit up.
And get caught doing it.
WOW, the alky hasn't posted about any further bathroom break
This is cruel and unusual punishment for Chauvin and the defense team.
Shocking
Clear back in 1974, I tried meth twice and I lost a couple friends because of it
SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE you did alky.
Is there any topic ever discussed on this blog that you HAVEN'T TRIED to make about YOU? EVER?
Fuck.
This is what a broke and broken down old bitch sounds like.
"Roger AmickApril 8, 2021 at 2:27 PM
Scott, ask kputz to quit saying alky etc."
Catturd ™
https://twitter.com/catturd2/status/1380104129851367433
Mike Pence received a $4 million dollar advance on a book deal yesterday - a book basically no one will read.
Book deals such as these, that always lose millions, have always been how crooked politicians get payoffs.
It’s one big scam.
The Obama/Biden crime syndicate made tens if not 100's of millions of dollars like this.
Is there any topic ever discussed on this blog that YOU DO NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT LIKE A LITTLE OLD LADY??????????
Tobin said the weight from officers forcing Floyd's left wrist high into his chest and an officer's knee on his left side, in addition to the pressure from the street on the other side of Floyd's body, acted like a "vise" and constricted his left lung from expanding. Floyd was trying to use his right hand to push up the right side of his body in order to take in air on the right side, "literally trying to breathe with his fingers and knuckles," Tobin said.
At the same time, Chauvin's knee on Floyd's neck was at various points putting pressure on Floyd's hypopharynx, a small area at the bottom part of the throat, further compromising his breathing, Tobin said. Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd's neck for three minutes and 27 seconds after Floyd took his last breath, Tobin testified, well after there was "not an ounce of oxygen left in his body."
Tobin discounted the defense's suggestion that Floyd's underlying heart conditions and fentanyl use contributed to his death.
"A healthy person subjected to what Mr. Floyd was subjected to would have died as a result of what he was subjected to,"
The cause of death is manslaughter.
Doctor: Floyd died of low oxygen, caught in "vise" between officers, street.
https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/derek-chauvin-trial-george-floyd-death-2021-04-08/
Play by play bathroom break Alky has not proved "intent".
“At the beginning you can see he’s conscious, you can see slight flickering, and then it disappears. That’s the moment the life goes out of his body.”
rrb's favorite pedophile enabler is in trouble
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Joel Greenberg Is Poised to Plead Guilty. His Attorney Said Matt Gaetz Is Probably on Edge Right
Rrb's favorite pedophiles is in play
Matt Gaetz & Joel Greenberg
Joel Greenberg, the former Florida tax collector who is facing a 33-count federal indictment alleging sex trafficking and various financial crimes, is poised to plead guilty. That’s according to court records on file with the Orlando Division of the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Florida. Greenberg’s attorney says his client’s friend, Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla. 1), should be nervous about Greenberg’s planned guilty plea and its potential ramifications for Gaetz himself. That’s because guilty pleas of the magnitude being considered in Greenberg’s case frequently involve testimony against alleged co-conspirators.
Reports by The New York Times and others have suggested Gaetz is also under investigation to determine whether he engaged in sex trafficking. Gaetz has denied all wrongdoing and has said he is the victim of an
Attorneys monitoring the situation were quick to opine that the situation was legally “bad for Gaetz.”
“If Greenberg is signing a cooperation agreement, it means he has information that can help the government prosecute other people,” said attorney Daniel Goldman, a former federal prosecutor who was counsel to the Democrats during one of the impeachment proceedings against Donald Trump. “Usually prosecutors don’t cooperate ‘down’ (ie prostitutes) but look to cooperate ‘up’ against bigger fish (ie Gaetz).”
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