These expert witnesses suck
Many of these "expert witnesses" will likely never be asked to be "expert witnesses" any time in the near future. Of all of them, only one or two really held up on cross. Certainly Brodd was broadsided by the prosecution yesterday and the jury might be wondering if that cross examination might be considered "unreasonable" force by Steve Schleicher (the prosecutor) and maybe even third degree assault.
Under normal circumstances, the failure for expert witnesses to really help their cases would be a problem for the prosecution. But in this case, who knows? I am not 100% sure that with a case of this magnitude in the woke politically correct age we are living, that some on the jury came in predisposed (regardless of what they stated in jury selection) to see Chauvin as guilty and just looking for Justification. Perhaps a bad performance by this expert is all some might need?
The Media is only providing bullet points and not really paying attention
Derek Chauvin did NOT use deadly force against George Floyd, police expert tells jury as he argues that a compliant person would be 'resting comfortably' if pinned to the ground in the same manner- Barry Brodd, a former cop and use-of-force expert, testified for Derek Chauvin's defense on Tuesday
- Brodd said in his view Chauvin did not use 'deadly force' against George Floyd
- He said Chauvin's holding Floyd on the pavement, face down, for nine minutes and 29 seconds was 'not a use of force' but a 'control technique'
- 'It doesn't hurt,' Brodd said of the restraint. 'It's safe for the officer, safe for the suspect'
- But on cross examination Brodd conceded that the restraint could in fact hurt and constitute use of force
- However he argued that Floyd was clearly non-compliant because 'a compliant person would have both their hands in the small of their back and be resting comfortably'
127 comments:
The Media is only providing bullet points and not really paying attention
I disagree. The bulk of the media is playing very close attention. And they're openly rooting for a conviction.
Morries Hall himself has taken the stand and told the judge that he has reviewed the list of questions the lawyers want to ask him, and he doesn’t want to answer them, invoking his Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate himself.
Analysis by US correspondent Greg Milam
We now have a very clear picture of the approach of Derek Chauvin's defence team: shift the blame for George Floyd's death from the former police officer to the victim himself.
Barry Brodd, the expert in police use-of-force called by the defence, told the jury that officer Chauvin was justified in using force on a "non-compliant" Mr Floyd.
Mr Brodd suggested Mr Floyd should have been "resting comfortably" on the road surface. The prosecution challenged him that Mr Floyd was actually trying to breathe.
The problem for the defence is that the jury has already heard from a raft witnesses, colleagues of officer Chauvin, who say his use of force was unjustified.
Having tried to prove that the officer's behaviour was "reasonable" - the accepted standard in police use-of-force cases - the defence will also have to show that his actions didn't cause Mr Floyd's death at all.
Their medical witnesses will again have to overcome the testimony of those who were actively involved in investigating Mr Floyd's death.
But any defence just has to introduce a reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors. That is lawyer Eric Nelson's challenge.
Perhaps...
But most of them provided little more than the defense bullet point. As has been through most of the trial, I have focused on the cross and whether a witness held up.
Because we all know why they are there. To tell the story they were paid to tell.
But even yesterday, where this guy was not a great witness, all the MSM heard was that Chauvin did not use deadly force.
Now I don't know... maybe that is also what the jury hears for the most part. Maybe they are not as impressed with clever lawyer tricks and want to take all of these witnesses at their word.
Blogger Roger Amick said...
The topic is the trial, not my life.
Follow the orders by Scott, kputz.
CHT discourages:
- reprinting other people's opinion (C&P)
- excessive linking of other websites
LOL.
Roger...
Obviously Brodd was not as good as he should have been and to be completely fair, the state has assembled a virtual dream team of prosecutors with unlimited resources and they are up against a single attorney and a client with little or no money to pay for experts and such.
But even through all of that, Brodd got many points across that the jury had not heard yet. Things that are not really diminished by a bad cross.
The main thing for me (if I was sitting the jury) was the clarification that positional asphyxia was something that police are told to be aware of, but that it generally is only something that they look for with very obese people.
This was clearly touched on during the prosecutions case (that positional asphyxia was a possible problem) - which makes one wonder why the police are trained to do it. (Now I personally don't believe that 140 pound man can crush a 230 pound man - but that is besides this point).
But when Brodd stated that positional asphyxia is something officers are trained to look for if the person is very obese (then their own body weight can play a factor) - but not for normal people.
That makes sense as to why you would train someone to use this technique (which everyone now agrees is a fundamental police restraint and not a choke).
So it would not be unreasonable for Chauvin to suspect that Floyd was not going to die, because Floyd was an large athletic looking guy and not someone who would be a candidate for positional asphyxia. Why would Floyd stop breathing when that prone position doesn't kill people 99,999 times out of 100,000?
But obviously the prosecution cannot ask him why he didn't consider drug use or heart problems... because that would run against their narrative that it has to be asphyxia.
Morries Hall, 42, was in the car with George Floyd on the day of his death on 25 May 2020.
He plans to invoke his 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination - and says he is not willing to testify because he is "fearful of criminal charges going forward".
Judge Peter Cahill wanted Mr Hall to describe "how George Floyd looked in the car".
Morries Hall leaves the stand after refusing to answer any questions.
The other passenger in the car, Shawanda Hill, testified for the defence case yesterday and said Mr Floyd was in a happy mood, but later fell asleep in the SUV across the road from the Cup Foods store before police arrived.
The testimony said that he had fallen asleep before the police arrived, is not good for the defense, because he didn't pose a threat at that time.
Good point, but still sewing doubt in cause of the death of an unarmed man. Is a difficult task.
The testimony said that he had fallen asleep before the police arrived, is not good for the defense, because he didn't pose a threat at that time.
Bad thing for the prosecution (which is why the defense brought it up).
Because if he just passed out in the car, then why wouldn't he just pass out on the street after having an physical altercation with the police? Too tired to just stay awake in the car, but without a knee on his back he would have been alert and happy waiting for EMT and to be send to jail?
It also goes against the prosecutions argument that the drugs in his system had not affected him and had nothing to do with him passing out in the street.
Good point, but still sewing doubt in cause of the death of an unarmed man. Is a difficult task.
actually quite the opposite, Roger...
about 150,000 people die every day. 99.99% of them unarmed.
are each of those deaths murder just because they are unarmed?
You are reaching. There was no evidence that even if they had not restrained, he would have passed out and died of drug poisoning or overdose.
Scott irrelevant again and again and again. This case is all that matters.
witness Dr David Fowler takes the stand
He tells the court he is a retired forensic pathologist and also a licensed physician.
Dr Fowler is explaining his educational background and experience. He tells the court he was a medical examiner for several years and also trained other forensic pathologists.
He says a forensic pathologist looks at non-natural events that threaten life and cause death.
I'm watching him now.
my assumption has been from the start Roger...
that Floyd overdosed, or that at the very least the drugs accounted for 90% of the cause. I find it implausible that he would have died, if not for 11 ng/ml of drugs in his system... especially considering a majority of Fentanyl overdose people are measured with less than that, many substantially less.
Perhaps it's possible that he would have died without the drugs. But there is no objective third party evidence of anyone else every dying from the prone position or other police officers being charged and found guilty of murder from using the prone position.
In 2020, over 80,000 people died from opioid overdose.
In 2020, no people were pronounced dead from positional asphyxia from being placed in the prone position.
It looks to me that you have already decided on the case.
I'm doing my best to remain objective.
You are not.
The prosecution will call into doubt about his decisions.
Derek Chauvin’s defense called on Dr. David Fowler, the former chief medical examiner of Maryland, to testify on Wednesday as an expert witness.
Dr. Fowler, who retired as the state’s chief medical examiner in 2019, has a history of involvement with high-profile police use-of-force cases.
While he was chief medical examiner of Maryland, Dr. Fowler ruled that the death of Anton Black, a Black teenager who was killed during an interaction with the police in 2018, was an accident, The Baltimore Sun reported. No one was charged.
In December, Mr. Black’s family filed a federal lawsuit against Dr. Fowler, the officers involved in the incident, and others.
“Two years before George Floyd died after being restrained and pinned down by police, 19- year-old Anton Black (‘Anton’ or ‘Decedent’) was killed by three white law enforcement officials and a white civilian in a chillingly similar manner on Maryland’s Eastern Shore,” the lawsuit reads.
According to the lawsuit, officers restrained Mr. Black in a prone position for around six minutes after he had been Tasered and handcuffed as he “struggled to breathe, lost consciousness and suffered cardiac arrest.”
In 2015, Dr. Fowler’s office issued a homicide ruling in the death of Freddie Gray, a 25-year-old Black man from Baltimore who died of a spinal cord injury after a widely circulated cellphone video showing him being dragged screaming into a police transport van.
In that case, six officers were initially charged with crimes including manslaughter and murder; the first trial ended in a hung jury, and three more officers were acquitted after trials before a judge.
The prosecution may question his credibility.
I don't know how the jury will decide.
Scott irrelevant again and again and again. This case is all that matters.
And what does Floyd being unarmed have to do with the case. Neither the prosecution or defense has ever offered that he was armed, nor was Floyd shot or tasered, or hit with a baton, or anything that would be associated with someone being armed or unarmed.
Chauvin used a weight restraint. The lowest level of force that can be used by a police officer. One appropriate for a suspect who has been resisting arrest but otherwise not violent to the degree that a higher level of force is necessary.
As each of the use of force experts have explained. When a large man like that is resisting arrest, there sometimes can be a cause for them to use a taser or other means to control him.
Perhaps had they simply tasered him. Put in in the squad are and brought him to the ER or even the precinct he would not have died. But that would have actually required a "higher" level of force.
As usual Doctor Scott Johnson, knows more about the cause of death, than the other Doctors who said that there is
strong objective evidence of a person dying from the prone position.
Cause of death: 75-90% coronary blockage coupled with enough Fentanyl to kill a thoroughbred horse.
Not the cause of death: A guy the size of an 8th grader kneeling on your back.
Former pathologist discusses George Floyd's death certificate - Floyd's heart was 'enlarged'
Dr David Fowler says George Floyd's death certificate says heart disease and drugs "contributed to a sudden cardiac arrest".
He says that in his opinion, Mr Floyd had a sudden cardiac arrest due to his heart disease when he was being restrained by the police.
His other significant contributors included drugs in his system and exposure to vehicle exhaust causing carbon monoxide poisoning.
He says deaths due to positional restraint induced by law enforcement personnel may be classified as homicide, emphasising the word "may".
Dr Fowler tells the court there are "substantial pertinent negatives in this case that drove my opinion".
"Mr Floyd's heart was enlarged", he says.
He is testifying now that he may have had a heart attack.
He is saying that the supply and demand of oxygen was not caused by being restrained by the former officer Chauvin.
If Floyd George had quit resisting restraints, he would not have had asphyxiation because of the size of his heart.
Dr Fowler tells the court hypertension can cause an enlarged heart like George Floyd's - which was out of the normal range despite his "robust" size.
"The size of the heart would be extremely good evidence that he had hypertension" he says, along with medical records he had elevated blood pressure.
He's doing quite well in sewing doubt about the cause of death.
Just curious Roger...
Why would a jury find an expert unreliable because they previously gave expert testimony? I believe all but one expert in this case has previously testified?
He had serious problems with the blood vessels in his heart. Perhaps caused his heart to quit working.
I don't know yet.
The prosecution may try to sew the in this case.
CARDIOVASCULAR SYSTEM:
The 540 g heart (upper limit of normal for body length is 510 g; upper limit of normal for body weight is 521 g)1 is contained in an intact pericardial sac. The epicardial surface is smooth, with modest fat investment. The coronary arteries are present in a normal distribution, with a right dominant pattern.
Cross sections of the vessels show multifocal atherosclerosis, with 75% proximal and 75% mid narrowing of the left anterior descending coronary artery; 75% proximal narrowing of the 1st diagonal branch of the left anterior descending coronary artery; 25% proximal narrowing of the circumflex coronary artery; and 90% proximal narrowing of the right coronary artery.
The myocardium is homogeneous, redbrown, and firm. The valve leaflets are thin and mobile. The walls of the left and right ventricles are 1.2 and 0.4 cm thick, respectively. The endocardium is smooth and glistening. Both ventricular cavities are mildly dilated. The minimally atherosclerotic aorta gives rise to three intact and patent arch vessels. The renal and mesenteric vessels are unremarkable.
Roger...
Or why would you believe someone who once was the chairman of the National Association of Medical Examiners would be seen as unreliable to testify about why someone died...
Given that that is what Medical Examiners do?
The only witnesses the alky finds as credible are those pushing the guilty verdict.
His mind being so open and all.
I haven't decided who to believe because I haven't seen all the information about them.
You keep assuming my thoughts. If you had that capability you could be the first person with that ability.
Ignored because you are fucking stupid.
Doctor Fowler has described the structure of the heart's four chambers and the blood flow into and out of the heart
Roger...
On paper, all of the expert witnesses should be credible. The fact that they all disagree tells you that they are there to fit their testimony to a certain narrative rather than give a 100% honest opinion.
The only witness so far who has given an reasonably objective opinion was the Hennepin County Medical Examiner Doctor Baker, who testified because he was doing his job and was forced to testify because of that. But even he testified under oath that he would have provided a different autopsy and cause of death if not for the circumstances, the video, etc. Based solely on the examination and toxicology reports he testified that he would have ruled it an overdose.
But he is still the closest to objective. So far, this defense witness is largely on board with that Baker said, where-as the prosecutions experts all disagreed with him for the most part.
Defence lawyer Eric Nelson now asks Dr David Fowler to discuss arrhythmia - a problem with the rate or rhythm of the heartbeat.
The former forensic pathologist who was assigned the George Floyd case by this trial's defence team says you "can't have orderly contraction of the heart" with this condition.
He says sudden death can "absolutely" happen as a result of arrhythmia.
He tells the court the fact one of Mr Floyd's arteries on the right side had 90% narrowing would have lead to an arrhythmia - increasing the chances of sudden death.
Dr Fowler says drugs including methamphetamine - which was in Mr Floyd's system - is "very is dangerous at several levels in this case - it sensitises the heart to arrhythmias".
He adds the drug also increases the rate the heart beats at - therefore the heart will demand increased oxygen.
Thirdly it is a vasoconstrictor - a substance which causes arteries to narrow, he says.
______
The autopsy report that the forces were the cause of death.
Trying to sew doubt.
You keep saying was forced to testify because of that.
Who forced him to say that?????,,
Second degree manslaughter charges against the police officer who shot Dante Wright have been fired
Filed
George Floyd's blood pressure 'higher than I would expect', former pathologist tells court
Defence lawyer Eric Nelson asks former pathologist Dr David Fowler about hypertensive cardiovascular disease.
Dr Fowler says it increases the demand and stress on the heart - and the more the individual is stressed - the more the demand on the heart will increase.
He says we have certain innate stress mechanisms built into us - such as the fight or flight mechanism - which prepares the body to be able to cope with stressful situations.
The sympathetic part of your nervous starts to act, causing the secretion of adrenaline, which is also a vasoconstrictor (narrowing of the arteries) he tells the court. This could restrict blood flow.
Mr Nelson also refers to Mr Floyd's previous blood pressure reading of 216 over 160.
"A high blood pressure like that could be due to his hypertension being out of control - but this is much higher than I would expect", Dr Fowler says.
He says it also could be due to stress, which can also increase blood pressure due to adrenaline being secreted.
He is saying that adrenaline contributed to his heart failure instead of asphyxiation caused by the former officer Chauvin.
Very interesting.
You keep saying was forced to testify because of that.
He is the chief medical examiner who wrote the autopsy. He was subpoenaed to testify. He is not a volunteer, nor is he being paid as an expert.
That is the concept of a subpoena. That you are being called to testify and you really have no choice. He it testifying, not as an "expert witness" like the others....
but as the Hennepin County Medical Examiner responsible for the examination and autopsy.
My bigger point, Roger is that Baker is the only one not really taking a side in this one. He is just testifying as to what he saw during the examination, what he concluded.
Unlike other witnesses, he was not brought in and "coached" by either side to provide testimony that helps their case.
That is why if I was on the jury, I would give his testimony the most weight.
Ot
The Minnesota officer who killed Daunte Wright will be charged with manslaughter.
Kimberly A. Potter, who resigned from the Brooklyn Center Police Department on Wednesday, will be charged with second-degree manslaughter, a prosecutor said.
You keep assuming my thoughts.
Only because you declared Chauvin guilty of murder 15 minutes after Junkie Floyd took the big dirt nap.
LOL, you fucking HACK.
Wright, the 20-year-old Black man shot by a police officer in a Minneapolis suburb Sunday afternoon, had an open warrant for his arrest related to an aggravated armed robbery attempt when he was killed, according to court records.
Wright and another man, identified as Emajay Maurice Driver, a high school acquaintance, had both been charged with first-degree aggravated robbery in a December 2019 incident in Osseso, Minnesota, Hennepin County District Court documents show.
....
He allegedly tried to choke her a second time and tried to take her money, according to the court documents. Driver allegedly told her to give Wright the money. The two men then left the apartment, got into a white Cadillac, and left the scene without the money. The woman later identified Wright and Driver via photo line-ups.
Wright was arrested and later released on $100,000 bail. As a condition of his release, he was not to have contact with the victim or witnesses, had to refrain from drugs and alcohol, and could not possess a firearm.
Wright’s bail was revoked in July because he allegedly possessed a firearm and was not keeping in touch with his probation officer, according to documents obtained by Fox News.
The case was still pending when Wright was pulled over Sunday for having an expired license plate. Police then tried to arrest him on an outstanding warrant after failing to appear in court on charges that he fled from officers and possessed a gun without a permit during an encounter with Minneapolis police in June.
Body camera footage released by the Brooklyn Center police department on Monday shows the moments after Wright had gotten out of his car. As an officer attempts to handcuff him, Wright pries himself loose and jumps back into his car.
A police officer can be heard shouting, "I'll Tase you! I'll Tase you! Taser! Taser! Taser!" She draws her and fires a single shot from her handgun as the car speeds away. The officer can be heard shouting, "Holy (expletive)! I shot him."
Wright died of a gunshot wound to the chest, according to the medical examiner. Kim Potter, the officer charged with his killing, resigned Tuesday, as did the city's police chief.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/daunte-wright-had-outstanding-warrant-for-attempted-aggravated-robbery-when-he-was-killed
illegal gun possession, resisting arrest, and apparently accidentally shot
BLM riots, leaders make more money.
If the jurors believe Hennepin County Medical Examiner Baker as the most credible, Officer Chauvin will be convicted of second degree felony. Imo
Keep these idiots in jail and deaths like these would not happen.
They also wouldn't if these idiots hadn't resisted arrest.
I blame the DA's, especially the head DA
Arrest Ellison and charge him with murder.
Hey alky have you figured out Ellison supports antifa yet ?
LEONARDTOWN, Md. (AP) — A Maryland State Police trooper responding to a pair of 911 calls shot and killed a teenager who was pointing what investigators determined was an airsoft gun at him, authorities said Tuesday.
[...]
The teenager was white, as is the trooper who shot him, according to Maryland State Police spokesman Greg Shipley.
https://wtop.com/maryland/2021/04/shooting-occurs-near-maryland-state-police-barracks/
Whew! Dodged a bullet on this one.
Thank God the dead kid was WHITE!!!
You are incapable of understanding me.
I want justice for the death of George Floyd.
But the trial is the subject of this thread.
I'm looking at the evidence of both sides and again eventually will decide if he's guilty or not.
This is well above your mental abilities.
rrb said...
You keep assuming my thoughts.
Only because you declared Chauvin guilty of murder 15 minutes after Junkie Floyd took the big dirt nap.
LOL, you fucking HACK.
If you can figure out the gibberish that must occupy roger's head you really must be a genius.
I can only imagine what must be stuck there based on what escapes and is posted here by him.
I want justice for the death of George Floyd.
But the trial is the subject of this thread.
I'm looking at the evidence of both sides and again eventually will decide if he's guilty or not.
Roger Amick said...
I want justice for the death of George Floyd.
But the trial is the subject of this thread.
Sorry, I was just responding to these postings on the thread:
Roger Amick said...
Second degree manslaughter charges against the police officer who shot Dante Wright have been fired
April 14, 2021 at 11:07 AM
Blogger Roger Amick said...
Filed
April 14, 2021 at 11:08 AM
I want justice for the death of George Floyd.
And with this single sentence you've crystallized exactly why you are NOT in an objective frame of mind on this topic.
I'm seeking justice TO PREVAIL. If Chauvin is found guilty, the system did it's job. The same if he's found not guilty.
I may not personally agree with a guilty verdict but I'll accept it. Unlike hacks like you alky, who will burn the rest of Minneapolis to the fucking ground if Chauvin is found not guilty.
I'm very capable of understanding you alky. You're a fucking mentally ill HACK. Very easy to understand. Child-like easy.
Interesting.
Former pathologist discusses if prone position and asphyxia contributed to George Floyd's death
Dr David Fowler, testifying for the defence, says deaths in police custody are "complex".
Defence lawyer Eric Nelson asks him about hypoxia, which has come up in the trial.
Dr Fowler says the brain is the most sensitive organ to hypoxia - a condition in which the body or a region of the body is deprived of adequate oxygen supply at the tissue level.
Talking about the prone position, Dr Fowler says 7% of adult population sleep in this position, face down.
He says people are examined in this position and are sometimes deliberately placed in this position, including with COVID patients - which improves their oxygen exchange.
Dr Fowler says scientific studies have looked into the prone position with and without weight - and have concluded it does not affect respiratory function.
The body weight did not contribute to his death, according to him.
Ignored again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and!
Blogger Roger Amick said...
Ignored again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and!
Thanks for making my point, alky.
You're a fucking mentally ill HACK.
If someone is short of breath or experiencing hypoxia, they would breathe faster than normal, he says.
In terms of Chauvin's placement of the knee on Mr Floyd's neck, it was towards the back of his neck, and the airway is around the front.
The ability to speak or make any other sound requires breath to be taken in - so you cannot make sound, he says.
Moving air in and out and speaking is evidence that the airway was not closed, he says.
And hypoxia can take quite a bit of time.
I wish we had an ability to block the comments from idiots like Jimmy Hitler
He keeps saying he suffered from heart failure.
No evidence Chauvin's knee caused Floyd's death, former forensic pathologist says.
He also said that the prone position caused asphyxiation.
So far a good day for the defense team.
Roger if we could block James would be your only reader
If the prosecution can't disclose other details discredit Doctor Fowler,
George Floyd not likely to have had hypoxia
Dr David Fowler says Mr Floyd was coherent and understandable - which suggests he was not experiencing hypoxia.
The former forensic pathologist says he would have expected Mr Floyd to be disorientated, confused and incoherent if he was experiencing hypoxia - a condition in which the body or a region of the body is deprived of adequate oxygen supply at the tissue level.
The brain is most affected by hypoxia, which impacts speech.
Mr Floyd was making clear statements and being "fully functional" to becoming unconscious "very rapidly", he says.
In his opinion, Mr Floyd died of a sudden cardiac event because his heart was "vulnerable" and demanded a lot of oxygen.
He says the drugs fentanyl and methamphetamine played a role in Mr Floyd's heart arrhythmia, and carbon monoxide poisoning from the police car vehicle near his face was also a factor in his death.
He may get acquitted.
Scott reads my comments and we often agree to disagree.
I ignore you because you are a cultist idiot
I POWN you every time you try to engage
Scott, this witness was paid to testify.
Roger Amick said...
Scott reads my comments and we often agree to disagree.
What's funny is watching him crush you and then get frustrated by your inbred ignorance and lack of comprehension.
And you have no idea.
ROFLMFAO !!!
The difference between this witness and the state witnesses was that Doctor Fowler provided studies, research, examples, and experience to push his conclusions.
They were not based entirely on his own opinion as an expert.
Why, you ask, did the prosecution experts not come armed with studies about the prone position, studies that proved that a 140 pound man could crush a 230 pound man with his knees, or any real evidence of positional asphyxia having been the cause of death in other suspects?
Because there simply is not (as Fowler pointed out about Tobin's opinions on the hypopharynx being crushed) any studies or other objective examples of it causing death?
Whether it be the opinion that a 140 pound man can crush someone with his knee, or that the prone restraint crushes the hypopharynx, or any number of theories put forth by the prosecution...
They are literally telling you that Floyd is a case all by himself. The first prone position hypopharynx body crushing asphyxia of it's kind. All you have to do to get to that conclusion is listen to a bunch of experts provide opinions not backed by any data.
Roger....
By Friday you will be back to the 9 and half minutes and demanding the Chauvin killed him with the prone position hypopharynx body crushing asphyxia that has been spoon fed to you by prosecution.
The charts, reports, studies, etc... will all be thrown out the window as soon as the prosecutors get their hands back on your emotionally driven sense of reason. All of those studies are wrong! Must be wrong! Because Chauvin is a white cop, Floyd was an "unarmed black man" and therefor it was murder.
Scott, I have removed my feelings and I am talking about what is happening now.
Race is not on trial.
You keep saying that I can't think for myself.
Quit that shit
Blogger Roger Amick said...
Scott reads my comments and we often agree to disagree.
He toys with you alky.
And he has you pegged perfectly -
The charts, reports, studies, etc... will all be thrown out the window as soon as the prosecutors get their hands back on your emotionally driven sense of reason. All of those studies are wrong! Must be wrong! Because Chauvin is a white cop, Floyd was an "unarmed black man" and therefor it was murder.
Bingo.
You keep saying that I can't think for myself.
Quit that shit
But wait.
I thought...
Roger Amick said...
Scott reads my comments and we often agree to disagree.
LOL. THWAP!!!
Well Roger...
You could always prove me wrong.
But we both know there is a 99.99% chance you will be demanding murder again probably by the end of the day, but for sure before the end of the week.
The last remarks
So far, Dr Fowler, a former forensic pathologist and chief medical examiner, has been answering questions from defence lawyer Eric Nelson and has claimed Mr Floyd's death was caused by a multitude of factors.
However, he concluded that Mr Floyd died of cardiac arrhythmia due to hypertensive cardiovascular disease during the police restraint.
He appeared to dispute at least some of the findings of the Hennepin County medical examiner, who ruled Floyd's death a homicide caused by Chauvin and other officers restraining Floyd in a way that starved his body of oxygen.
Key statements from his testimony include:
George Floyd died of a sudden heart rhythm problem due to his heart disease while being restrained by policeHe had an enlarged heart that was out of the normal range - meaning it required more nutrients including oxygen and glucoseThe size of his heart is "extremely good evidence" he had hypertension.
One of Mr Floyd's arteries on the right side had 90% narrowing - increasing chances of sudden death
Drugs fentanyl and methamphetamine played a part in his death, with the latter sensitising the heart to arrhythmiasCarbon monoxide poisoning from police vehicle exhaust was a contributing factor in his death'Fight or flight mechanism' - secretion of adrenaline in a stressful situation - was also a factor in his death
Hypoxia not a likely cause of death because Mr Floyd was 'coherent' until the end.
The defense had a good day, but the prosecution is working on their response.
I don't think the judge will let the prosecution to introduce his history of letting police officers from being convicted for the death of a black man.
But, maybe he will allow it because his credibility may be a difficult task to prove a reasonable doubt.
The prosecution will start soon.
Unlike you Scott I don't know how it will end.
I don't know how they will question him.
Fucking liar and again and again. Indy is 1000% correct.
I don't want any decision.
Objectively thinking is beyond your abilities.
Simple question Roger put to you by Cali.
Do you now have your own.
Kitchen?
Dining Room?
Living Room?
A common meal area?
You have been "OT"
Indy is 1000% correct.
LOL.
Are you wrapping that creamed corn smile around Indy's mushroom member, alky?
LOL.
THWAP!!!
Well Roger...
Time will tell if I am correct, huh?
President Biden, frustrated in his efforts to end America’s “Forever War” a decade ago, announced on Wednesday a Sept. 11 deadline for withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan after 20 years, a move that immediately triggered similar action among the country’s NATO allies.
While a complete withdrawal has long been seen as inevitable, it is likely to lead to an expansion of the Taliban that could overwhelm the U.S.-backed government in Kabul, despite assurances by intelligence agencies that the withdrawal can be done without precipitating the kind of violent, entropic instability that led to the 2001 attacks on America.
“We cannot continue the cycle of extending or expanding our military presence in Afghanistan hoping to create the ideal conditions for our withdrawal, expecting a different result,” Mr. Biden said.
This is the ridicule she has earned.
""House Republicans display Kamala Harris milk carton at news conference: ‘Missing at the border".
I have made it clear that I don't know if he will be convicted of innocent.
I have never said that we should have demonstrations if he is acquitted.
Roger, you bitched on the other thread about off topic posts.
Yet, here you are violating your own standards.
You are weak, no self-control.
Indy is right
Roger in your "Apartment"
Do you have a five burner stove with an oven, a full size refrigerator with a water and ice despencer?
Are you allow food in your "Apartment"?
Blogger Roger Amick said...
Indy is right
LOL.
THWAP!!!
Prosecution quickly moves to debunk other claims from Dr David Fowler.
Dr David Fowler confirms to prosecutor Jerry Blackwell he is not a toxicologist.
He confirms he earns a livelihood through his role on the forensics panel.
Dr Fowler agrees that positional asphyxia is placing a person in a position that restricts their airways.
He agrees that Chauvin's right knee was on Mr Floyd's neck, as well as on his back.
He also agrees that Mr Floyd was "sandwiched" between Mr Chauvin's knee and the ground.
Dr Fowler confirms it takes around four minutes for someone to lose consciousness when pressure is applied to their neck.
He agrees with the prosecution that someone who is not experiencing a shortage of oxygen is less likely to suffer an arrhythmia.
Interesting.
The prosecution lawyer has done a great job Doctor Scott Johnson MD
Former forensics pathologist his contradicts previous statements.
After telling the court that George Floyd's body showed no sign of bruising on the neck area, Dr David Fowler now confirms to prosecutor Jerry Blackwell that there is often no physical evidence of positional asphyxia in "a substantial amount of cases".
He says it is correct that the diagnosis of positional asphyxia is one made by an investigation because an autopsy often doesn't show evidence of it.
He confirms none of the prone position studies he referred to earlier in court involved a knee on subjects' necks.
Mr Blackwell states that Chauvin was pressing down on Mr Floyd's neck forcefully. on his neck on his neck on his neck.
Dr Fowler agrees that if the weight was "sufficient", it could lead someone to suffer from asphyxia.
The witness has been discrediting his own words.
Well the best answer so far is when Dr Fowler tells the prosecutor that he couldn't read what didn't exist under any searches.
For those wondering here.
The prosecution is trying to make it seem that Fowler did not do his homework, but I am wondering out loud what information they expected him to find... since they offered no such studies or reports when they presented their case.
Perhaps they will now show him all of the studies he missed?
That would be effective. Otherwise it is just gamesmanship.
Yesterday the prosecution went after the testimony. Today they are going after the doctor personally. That is exactly what I expect them to do to impeach them.
Problem is that it's a Medical Examiner (not the other doctors) who make a living determining cause of death. Making those determinations based on scientific and medical research is what he does.
None of the other doctors are supposed to be experts on cause of death.
Either way, this guy appears to be holding up much better so far under cross.
Prosecutor Jerry Blackwell is intent on making sure Dr David Fowler doesn't want to "confuse the jury" with the evidence he has presented in court today.
Dr Fowler confirms to the prosecution that he did not do a number of calculations regarding George Floyd's end-expiratory lung volume (EELV) - and that he is not a pulmonary expert.
His experience was not sufficient according to the prosecution. Because he is not pulmonary expert. He is not qualified to determine the cause of death by either heart failure or drug overdose.
The prosecution is trying to make it seem that Fowler did not do his homework, but I am wondering out loud what information they expected him to find... since they offered no such studies or reports when they presented their case.
Perhaps they will now show him all of the studies he missed?
That would be effective. Otherwise it is just gamesmanship.
This might have something to do with that -
OVER 5,000 DISCOVERY ITEMS DUMPED ON DEFENSE DURING TRIAL
Another interesting mention in yesterday’s “housekeeping” meeting with Judge Cahill came up in the context of the number of disclosures and exhibits that have been dumped on the defense in this case—a large chunk of which have been dumped on the defense even as the trial was taking place.
As background, there are always materials collected by the parties that ought to be shared with the opposing counsel as part of discovery.
Under Minnesota procedure, each item is labeled with what’s called a Bates stamp, a unique identifying number, and then a bunch of these are collected together and delivered as a “disclosure.”
Ideally, by the time a trial actually starts both sides will have long since received the other’s disclosure items, early enough to have time to consider and research them before the trial begins.
That has not been the process in this trial, particularly with respect of state disclosures to the defense.
When this trial began, the state had already delivered to the defense 41 disclosures consisting of 45,118 Bates stamped items.
If that sound like a lot, that’s because it is.
But the disclosures of the state did not stop there, as one would normally expect. Indeed, not even close.
Since the start of the trial—in other words, while the sole defense attorney Nelson has been occupied the entirety of every day in trial on this case—the state has continued to deliver disclosures to the defense, each containing a great many Bates stamped items.
Indeed, since the start of the trial the state has made 12 additional disclosures to the defense, consisting of 5,154 additional Bates stamped items.
Yes, that’s 5,154.
Yesterday was the 12th day of this trial. That works out to the defense having to review newly delivered Bates stamped items at an average of 430 per day.
That’s 430 newly delivered Bates items per day.
That, folks, is not normal.
The defense raised this issue yesterday afternoon in the context of anticipated cross-examination of defense experts by the state today.
Much of the most recently delivered discovery consists of materials that could be, certainly will be, used in an attempt to impeach those defense experts.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/04/live-chauvin-trial-day-13-this-morning-court-to-consider-judgment-of-acquittal/#more-350508
Dr Fowler agrees with his previous statement that Mr Floyd's death was "more sudden than prolonged".
He said earlier that the officer should have started CPR before the ambulance arrived.
All of my comments came from Europe!
Sky News: https://news.sky.com/story/george-floyd-killing-the-trial-of-derek-chauvin-live-defence-case-begins-12274284?inApp=true
He said earlier that the officer should have started CPR before the ambulance arrived.
Yeah, with a hundred screaming savages posing a clear and present danger, the cop is supposed to go into EMT mode and perform on a drug-addled and potentially AIDS-infected scumbag.
LMAO.
Good one alky.
Discrediting witnesses is done by both sides. LegalInsurrection.com is a partisan organization.
There were only a few people, not a crowd of hundreds of people.
You are a liar troll squad as*****!
Court shows image of Chauvin's arm around George Floyd's neck
Prosecutor Jerry Blackwell shows the court an image of Derek Chauvin with his arm around George Floyd's neck when he initially tried to put him in a police car - known as squad car 320.
Dr David Fowler agrees he heard Mr Floyd complain he was choking.
It kind of contradicts his previous comments about choking by the knee hold on his neck.
The video shows that.
https://news.sky.com/story/george-floyd-killing-the-trial-of-derek-chauvin-live-defence-case-begins-12274284?inApp=true
Dr. Fowler concedes under cross examination that George Floyd should have gotten immediate medical attention to reverse his cardiac arrest. That seems to be a suggestion — from an expert called by Derek Chauvin’s defense — that life-saving efforts should have begun long before they did.
Jimmy Hitler, the witness said that he should have saved the life of the drug addicted man, despite being a flawed man.
You just think he's just another dead ******.
Wow Roger...
You back to racist white cop kills poor defenseless unarmed black man with the infamous prone position hypopharynx body crushing asphyxia yet???
Did the prosecution undermine any of those studies and documentation that Fowler provided for the jury to ponder?
Dr David Fowler agrees he heard Mr Floyd complain he was choking.
Watch the whole video. Junkie was crying "I can't breathe" from the fucking jump.
That catch phrase turned to complete bullshit the day you assholes printed it on a T-shirt.
Rat- as expected and exactly as I predicted:
Roger right back to racist white cop kills poor defenseless unarmed black man with the infamous prone position hypopharynx body crushing asphyxia yet!!!
He
Just
Cannot
Control
His
Emotions
Then he will say something about Indy or something.
Wow...
Blackwell obvious was desperate when he decided to make Fowler testify to a study about someone who died from P.A. - but only allowed him to see two paragraphs.
Nelson just introduced the rest of the study showing that the person in question has obese and had heart disease.
Opps...
the prosecution appears to have scored today: Dr. David Fowler, the defense medical expert, has acknowledged that George Floyd died “long, long before” he reached the hospital, that his cardiac arrest was reversible, and that he should have been given immediate medical aid.
Prosecution is getting owned in redirect.
Used a bunch of partial parts of studies, books, manuals, etc... and Nelson is introducing the "full" studies, books, etc...
Showing that prosecution was deliberately misleading the jury about studies.
Only can assume that they believed an overwhelmed Nelson would not have had time to go over these things.
Roger....
Failure to administer CPR is not murder.
You do realize that?
Right?
In many ways it's red herring to a medical expert who is giving an opinion as to cause of death.
If failure to give CPR is murder, how many people would actually learn it knowing that if they failed to administer it and someone died, that they would go to jail for murder?
Either way... that is not the same thing as racist white cop kills poor defenseless unarmed black man with the infamous prone position hypopharynx body crushing asphyxia...
Now is it?
But admit it Roger.
In your mind... he didn't perform CPR - therefore he is guilty of that exact infamous prone position hypopharynx body crushing asphyxia!!!
Blogger C.H. Truth said...
Rat- as expected and exactly as I predicted:
Roger right back to racist white cop kills poor defenseless unarmed black man with the infamous prone position hypopharynx body crushing asphyxia yet!!!
It's funny and sad at the same time. The poor bastard is locked down in Medicaid Acres; his entire existence being this blog and this trial. If Chauvin is found not guilty the orderlies will have the alky in restraints, perhaps even a straightjacket.
FANTASY:
Blogger Roger Amick said...
the prosecution appears to have scored today:
REALITY:
Blogger C.H. Truth said...
Prosecution is getting owned in redirect.
Scott, I responded to a racist person's words. He is the one with the deep hatred for people of color. Insulting others is contrary to your standards. Sometimes I find it difficult to ignore racism.
You have insulted me several times today.
But just think Rat...
If the jury decides to convict Chauvin of the infamous prone position hypopharynx body crushing asphyxia!!!
Then Roger will take an extra pain med and party like it's 1999!!!
A simple pleasure for a man who probably has few of them...
Other than his hot model whom is madly in love with him!
Rat..
If the prosecution's case is down to "he didn't perform CPR" then win or lose in the end (because this jury may be bound and determined to convict at all costs)- Defense Attorney Nelson deserves a fucking medal!
Failure to administer CPR is not murder.
In this case it doesn't even go to "depraved indifference."
Chauvin was a Cop responsible for subduing and apprehending a suspect. Period. Full stop.
Very large cat playing with very little mouse.
Maybe if the defense calls indy to the stand roger will consider that a point in their favor
Barring that it's all over except the bonfires.
And maybe a few bathroom breaks.
Blogger C.H. Truth said...
Rat..
If the prosecution's case is down to "he didn't perform CPR" then win or lose in the end (because this jury may be bound and determined to convict at all costs)- Defense Attorney Nelson deserves a fucking medal!
You've got that right. And furthermore, if this jury IS retarded enough to find Chauvin guilty, the appeal could begin the next fucking day. That's how clear cut this is and how painfully obvious it is that one must engage their emotions to arrive at a guilty verdict.
The prosecution is pulling every dirty trick in the book and they STILL can't convict on the evidence.
Holding back over 5,000 pieces of potentially exculpatory evidence just since the start of this trial?
Yeah, Scumbag Ellison's fingerprints are all OVER this kangaroo trial.
Blogger C.H. Truth said...
But just think Rat...
If the jury decides to convict Chauvin of the infamous prone position hypopharynx body crushing asphyxia!!!
Then Roger will take an extra pain med and party like it's 1999!!!
And if the jury returns a "Not Guilty" verdict, the orderlies at Medicaid Acres will have to use the same hold to subdue the alky that Chauvin used to subdue Junkie!
As BWAA would say -
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
LOL.
The Great Blue Exit.
US Law Enforcement is seeing more LEO retiring and quitting then at another time in the history of the profession.
Trial has recessed for the day - the next witness will take the stand tomorrow.
IMO the defense had a pretty good day, about sewing doubt. The prosecution probably didn't change any minds.
His failure to start CPR, is terrible, but it doesn't mean he intended to kill George Floyd. A decision under stress is meaningless.
A decision under stress is meaningless.
Except when you need to bring up a cop on manslaughter charges.
https://abc7news.com/minnesota-cop-will-be-charged-in-shooting-of-daunte-wright/10514079/
Trial has recessed for the day - the next witness will take the stand tomorrow.
Thank you Captain Obvious
Get a fucking life
Thank you Captain Obvious
Get a fucking life
This IS his life.
Tomorrow he'll begin with "ALL RISE!!!"
LOL.
THWAP!!!
Get a fucking life
The drunken Georgia loser again adding nothing but bile and a reflection of his own pathetic fucking life!!!!! BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! The deplorable rat seconds the stupidity like the scum he is!!!!
Speaking of no life, tubby waddles in
Roger, who has never stepped on a farm or ranch.
Sow Doubt
not
"Sew" or "Sewing"
Cali, Fatty was not woke , until you posted.
You own that lard.
All it will take is one .
"What is REASONABLE DOUBT?
This term refers to the lack of proof that prevents a judge or jury from convicting a defendant a crime. The prosecuting attorney must provide proof beyond a reasonable doubt to establish guilt."
Cite: Black's Law Dictionary
Barry Brodd, Defense Use-of-Force Expert Witness
The witness I’ll focus on the most here, however, is use-of-force expert witness Barry Brodd, and that’s not because he did a great job on the witness stand for the defense. Indeed, I found Brodd’s performance to fall astonishingly short of what the defense needed in this case, particularly in the specific context of use-of-force expertise.
In my live blogging comments today I at one point characterized Brodd’s performance as a train wreck for the defense, and I expect some folks will think that’s too extreme a characterization. Maybe his testimony was far from perfect, one might think, but he hardly became a witness explicitly favorable to the state, as had several state witnesses become explicitly favorable for the defense. Maybe a fairer characterization is “not great,” but also “not terrible”?
The answer to that question is a hard no. Maybe in a more normal case a mere “not great” would be enough. But this is not a normal case. Even just considering the legal dynamics alone, the state has just spent a bit over two weeks presenting a great number of witnesses, including many highly credentialed expert witnesses, all by a rotating panel of four skilled prosecutors.
Further, there are two main paths of attack for the prosecution on the facts of this case: first, that Chauvin’s conduct was a substantial contributor to Floyd’s death, and perhaps even the primary cause; and second, that Chauvin was not justified in his use of force upon Floyd.
It’s true that the state must win both those battles. If the defense wins either of those legal battles—that is, convinces the jury either that Floyd died of other causes absent substantial contribution by Chauvin, or convinces the jury that even if Chauvin caused Floyd’s death he was nevertheless justified in his use of force upon Floyd—then as a matter of simple legal reasoning the prosecution cannot prove Chauvin guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
The state, recognizing this dual challenge, has brought a huge mass of evidence and legal argument to both of those battles (frankly, to an extent that many judges would have found much of the state’s evidence to be cumulative and inadmissible).
In the context of the mechanism of how Chauvin purportedly caused Floyd’s death they’ve attacked on multiple fronts, including blood choke, respiratory choke, positional asphyxiation, denial of care, and probably more I’ve not bothered storing in memory.
In the context of the purported lack of justification for Chauvin’s use of force upon Floyd, the state has brought forward a plethora of Minneapolis police officers and senior management, as well as use-of-force experts, to provide testimony to that effect.
Frankly, I’ve always felt the best defense for the (uh) defense was on the justification for use-of-force front. The state’s testimony on this issue was sketchy at best, and often catastrophically bad for the prosecution.
Several of the state’s police witnesses on this front were effectively turned into defense witnesses by Defense Counsel Nelson on cross-examination. Further, I had little difficulty envisioning a narrative of justification for Chauvin’s use of force upon Floyd for every moment of the event encounter between Chauvin and Floyd.
In contrast, the medical defense struck me as much more challenging for the defense, especially with the number of welltcredentialed medical and scientific experts the state brought in to testify (again, arguably in a manner that qualifies as impermissibly cumulative testimony).
Use-of-force justification and polices are vastly easier to explain to a lay jury than are the medical sciences of cardiology, pulmonology, oncology, physiology, and more.
For that focus on the defense of justification to work, however, it had to meet a particular condition—it had to be near perfect, virtually pristine in its clarity, compelling in its obviousness, undeniable in its correctness.
And that’s just in the legal argument context. Throw in the political context, and the racial context, and the rioting, looting, and arson context, and it is all the more important that the defense approach perfection if it is to have any hope of achieving an acquittal.
So while I could not possibly know how Nelson was going to craft that narrative of justification, I knew what it had to look like by the time he was done, and I could envision how I would go about achieving that state of virtual perfection in a justification defense if I were making the effort.
It’s that state of near perfection that use-of-force expert Barry Brodd needed to deliver today, and when I say I felt much of his testimony was a train wreck, it in the context of that very high expectation and standard. Was he OK? Sure, he was OK, sometimes good, sometimes not good, overall, mediocre.
Did he approach the perfection necessary in this case? Not. Even Close.
I have been on ranches since I was a kid.
Look it up my Grandfather Charles had a ranch and farm in South Dakota. He was born in 1881,died in 1967.
We went there once or twice a year.
He raised cattle and he named the cows. Not the bulls or steers because they didn't have calves. We actually ate Rocky Mountain Oysters after we castrated the bull calves.
I still know how to milk a cow. Squeeze from the top.
Kputz is a dipshit.
https://lawofselfdefense.com/chauvin-trial-day-12-wrap-up-defense-use-of-force-expert-witness-falls-short/
We went there once or twice a year.
He raised cattle and he named the cows. Not the bulls or steers because they didn't have calves.
Thank you Mr Science
I was strapped to a mule with a grandparent more often than you visited your grandparents.
Claudie, a fine beast
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