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Thursday, September 1, 2016

So what's the disagreement? Part 1

Now some of the Donald Trump proposals are being touted as outlandish, racist, and overall a threat to Mexico. But let's actually look at this from the basis of reality and logic (sorry to offend those of you who find reality and logic petty concepts unworthy of political attention).

I want to start with what I see are the most logical stances taken by Donald Trump. I would like to see how our friends left of center answer these questions:

  • Build a wall - It's illegal to cross the border where you are not supposed to cross it. What is the reasoning for opposing something that makes it more difficult to break the law?
  • End catch and release - It would be one thing if we caught some one trying to sneak across the border, and then made sure they went back home. But our current process is to simply catch them, and then let them go (in a fairly obvious manner allowing them to cross or at the very try again tomorrow). This would be akin to having a bouncer check IDs at the front door of a bar, but then let those who are under 21 in anyways. Why on earth would anyone support this? Why would we pay border security people, if they actually do not secure the border?
  • Zero tolerance for criminal aliens - Can anyone tell me why we would allow an illegal alien who also is also a convicted criminal... to be released from prison and back into American society (rather than deport them)? 
  • Block funding for sanctuary cities - Why should the federal government support local municipals that shelter wanted fugitives? 
  • Complete the biometric entry-exit tracking system - This is a system that will track those people who are here on Visas. It was technically supposed to be done by law back in the 1990's. It was also recommended strongly by the bi-partisan 9-11 commission that it be completed, as they said it may have even helped prevent 9-11. It would cost roughly 500 million dollars. Why have we gone through three administrations and nobody has been able to work with Congress to get funding?
  • Suspend issuing visas to countries where we cannot adequately screen their citizens - Let's keep in mind that there is no constitutional right for anyone outside the United States to become a citizen here. None what-so-ever. So why when there are literally thousands and thousands of people applying for visas to come to the United States, would we decide to bring in anyone who comes from areas where there is large anti-American sentiment, where terrorism is rampant, and where the people wanting these Visas cannot be properly vetted? Everyone of those high risk aliens we choose to bring into the country, means someone from a more stable part of the world, who probably offers a more ample skill set, who we can properly vet, does not get in. 
  • Ensure that other countries take back their citizens when they are deported - This seems rather self-explanatory? Why should we allow countries to refuse to take back citizens (many dangerous criminals) when we have decided to deport them? It's not like they can physically stop us from bringing them back. 
I look forward to the responses.


9 comments:

KD, said...

From what Trump laid out, it looks like he has the best interest of the poor and lower middle class worker at heart. End cheap labor and those that will work for less then any state minimum wage, off the books and not paying into the system.

If those that want to be here so bad want jobs, then why is it too much to ask for them to first, come here Legally, why is it the ALT-Leftist believe the Illegals should come FIRST?

Roger Amick said...

We aren't far apart. I just hate a wall. It just reminds me of "Tear down that wall."

I will get back after watching some football. Vikings are winning over my Rams. Oh my

Roger Amick said...

1: Build a wall. One reason is that it looks like the Berlin Wall. We have reduced illegal entry 4/5 since 2000. Modern technology, and increased numbers of border patrol agents, can provide the same or better protection than an ugly wall. "Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall. I think that was Ronald Reagan's signature statement of his administration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtYdjbpBk6A

2 End catch and release. THE FACTS: Many of the releases in question were ordered by courts. They were not a policy of the Obama administration.

A federal judge in Los Angeles ruled last year the federal government's detention of children and their mothers who were caught crossing the border illegally violated a 1997 court settlement. In July, an appeals court narrowed the scope, saying children must be quickly released but not their parents. From October through July, 48,311 unaccompanied children were arrested crossing the border from Mexico; many more children were caught with their families.

AP has a fact check page. They are not partisan. http://bigstory.ap.org/article/3216907b7cad4dc7a610a14e8166975a/ap-fact-check-trump-immigration

I'm not a lawyer But I do think that we could at least at the federal and perhaps at the state level to expel non citizens that are arrested and despite not getting a trial, as they ae not citizens and don't have Constitutional rights.

Block funding for sanctuary cities. What services are you talking about? Cities have extensive law enforcement, postal services? What funding?

Complete the biometric entry-exit tracking system -This is the AP comments. I will follow up. THE FACTS: Trump is correct in focusing on visa overstays as a source of much illegal immigration. The biometric system he wants to complete, though, presents enormous logistical, technical and financial challenges, and he gave no details how he would address it differently than his predecessors.

Congress mandated the system first in 1996 and only now has the Obama administration begun implementing it on select flights at nine airports and at a border crossing between San Diego and Tijuana, Mexico.

The scope of the problem is immense - and not one that Trump's proposed border wall could fix.

The U.S. admits more than 45 million people annually on tourist, student and work visas. The government says 99 percent of them leave when required. But 1 percent overstay their visas, and that's more than 450,000 people annually.

To screen 400,000 people is very expensive. Maybe the money not spent on the Berlins, err.. Trump wall? would provide the additional screening.

Suspend issuing visas to countries where we cannot adequately screen their citizens.

We have long been a nation of refugees. Ore original settlers were getting out of England for religious reasons. Trump would ban all Muslims. There is no simple solution to this. There e are thousands fleeing Syria for legitimate reasons. The problem we all admit is that it's almost imp;possible to make sure that sme of them may come here with evil intent. My ancestor came here almost 400 years ago seeking a better life. The truth is, Mexico does not send us rapists , etc. most coe here to provide for their families. There is not a yes or no solution.

My last comment: We have other things to do than build a wall . One is to impose steep penalties on companies that hire illegal immigrants. The Republicans have opposed this. Rick Perry opposed such a law in Texas. If the illegal can't get a job, they won't cross the border. The Supreme Court has allowed states to impose significant penalties, but it's run into steep resistance at the federal level. That would be very effective and a lot cheaper than a wall.




KD , More Poor Blacks In the USA today said...

. The 2006 Secure Fence Act passed the Senate 80–19 "

Hillary Voted for the Wall then.

rrb said...



you "just hate a wall' eh?

you don't say.

do you lock your doors at night? have a fence around your yard? lock your car?

we have the right as a sovereign nation to determine who we let in, when, and why. and to determine how long they can stay, and to set the terms of their visit by granting them permanent residence in the form of citizenship. in exchange for that all we ask is that they assimilate. and obey our laws including the manner in which they arrive. the bar is not set very high.




C.H. Truth said...

So Roger...

- You don't build a wall because you think it's ugly?
- You don't fix the laws regarding catch and release because they are not Obama policies (New laws generally trump 20 year court rulings, btw)
- You don't stop federal funding because it's only part of their funding (all of these cities get some federal funding)?
- You don't implement the tracking system because it's a $500 million dollar project? Even though the 9-11 commission said it would be well worth the investment?

Btw... I can tell you lost the argument when you throw in the straw man arguments of rejecting ideas that are not part of his 10 point plan. But isn't that a typical liberal. Never argue honestly. Always lie and misrepresent.

Myballs said...

Speaking of Trump, he has been surging in the polls. This movement coincides with his restructure of campaign leadership. So it appears that his decisions were right on target and not the chaos dems and media made it out to be.

KD, 93 million unemployed said...

But isn't that a typical liberal. Never argue honestly. Always lie and misrepresent. " CHT you wrote the truth supported by facts



"Booming Economy" that is what HB wrote, never mind so many have fallen into poverty over the last 8 years, never mind that blacks have exited the housing market and the small businesses ownership market, ignore that more black youth are unemployed and that every year one does not work, is one more year lost.


Retirement pay out under SSI is based on years worked and income. Blacks are the focus of both less time worked and lower incomes. Hurting them more under Progressive Policy and Progressive Programs.

The sole reason the Federal Reserve has kept rate at near zero is because IF they raise them to where they should be if this was a real recovery (rates should be at 2.5 %), is because it would further explode the Federal Debt.

HB, will never understand how money works, how it is used and how it is saved.

wphamilton said...

Build a wall - too expensive to build, and would require too much manpower. It remains to be seen if it could even be effective in the rugged terrain of the remote West Texas Rio Grande.

End catch and release - He's talking about returning them to Mexico, further away from the border. It won't make much difference. People are more mobile now than they were in Eisenhower's time.

Zero tolerance for criminal aliens - no argument there.

Block funding for sanctuary cities - just politics

Complete the biometric entry-exit tracking system - is the technology mature? Is it even necessary?

Suspend issuing visas to countries where we cannot adequately screen their citizens - that does make sense.

Ensure that other countries take back their citizens when they are deported - this is just politics again, something that sounds pretty serious but won't have that much impact.