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Thursday, July 27, 2017

How to make something fairly trivial sound "really, really bad"

“There was no mystery of who Natalia Veselnitskaya was. A simple Google search would have shown that she was the main in house lawyer for a high level Russian government official whose son was accused by the US DOJ of money laundering from the Magnitsky case in the US,”
So let's decipher this back into plain speak english?
  • Main in-house lawyer - Veselnitskaya's firm handled the case of Denis Katsyv.  She played a role in that criminal case. But in terms of the much publicized civil case here in the United States, Veselnitskaya is not even license to practice law in the United States. So she could not have been officially part of that legal action, much less the "main" attorney. 
  • lawyer for a high level Russian government official whose son was accused - Huh? Why would you represent a family member of a guy accused of a crime?  Reality - the firm actually represented Denis Katsyv (accused of money laundering). They never actually represented his father Petr Katsyv, who was never even named in either the criminal or civil case. 
  • High level government official -  If Petr Katsyv was really "high ranking" they would refer to him by his "high rank" (you know like "defense minister" or "intelligence director"). As it is,  Katsyv is currently a Railroad executive who used to be a Moscow regional transportation official. Perhaps this term would be accurate if you replace the words "high level" with the word "former". 
So it might be better to look at this like one of those seven degrees of Kevin Bacon situations. Natalia Veselnitskaya was part of a firm that once represented someone who's father was a regional transportation official for Moscow.

So all you need to do is switch some phrases around, add some important sounding words and suddenly you have - "close ties to the Kremlin".

Certainly... nobody "really" believes this bullshit?

71 comments:

Loretta said...

Well, judging by the other threads, I'd say the liberals here have bought into everything.

Hell, they've gone from Russian votes were for Trump, to money laundering, to information warfare....

....with zero proof.

Pitiful really.

rrb said...

Certainly... nobody "really" believes this bullshit?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


not only do many believe it, some (especially one around here) have allowed it to drive them completely insane...


Mental wounds not healing
The election's a bitter shame
I'm goin' off the rails on a crazy train
I'm goin' off the rails on a crazy train


CNN still screaming
Driving me insane
I'm goin' off the rails on a crazy train
I'm goin' off the rails on a crazy train


Mental wounds not healing
DONALD TRUMP'S to blame
I'm goin' off the rails on a crazy train
I'm goin' off the rails on a crazy train


Loretta said...

LOL

rrb said...

I'd say the liberals here have bought into everything.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

oh yeah. lock, stock and barrel.

they are SO totally consumed by TDS they must buy into EVERYTHING in the hopes that SOMETHING will stick.

and i predict that if trump runs for reelection and wins, there will be blood. and a lot of it.



rrb said...



If the individual mandate were to be repealed and Americans were no longer required to purchase the Obamacare-mandated levels of health insurance coverage, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) believes that 15 million Americans would no longer purchase such coverage.

Some, including Jonathan Gruber, believe that the CBO is overestimating the impact of repealing the mandate. Gruber was one of the architects of the healthcare law.

Politically, the impact of these projections is significant since the individual mandate has long been the most unpopular part of Obamacare. Recent polling shows that two-thirds of Americans would like to see it repealed. For many, the idea of the government forcing anybody to buy anything is in conflict with America’s commitment to individual freedom.

Additionally, if the CBO projections are correct, there are 15 million Americans who would directly benefit from the repeal. Typically, when people are directly impacted by a law, their support or opposition is more intense than that of more casual observers.

On the other hand, if Gruber is correct, the Republican plans to repeal and replace Obamacare would have a much smaller impact than the CBO expects.

If the individual mandate were to be repealed, many Americans might be interested in purchasing less comprehensive and less expensive coverage. The CBO has offered no estimates of how many might take advantage of such alternatives. It is currently illegal for insurance companies to offer less expensive plans offering less comprehensive coverage.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-27/15-million-americans-would-opt-out-obamacare-if-they-could

opie said...

Certainly... nobody "really" believes this bullshit?

And you keep writing and defending trump about it. Why is that he is sp afraid of mueller??? Or releasing his returns...Or telling the truth???????

Roger Amick said...

The skinny bill just died.

Another one of Trump's promises goes down in the swamp. I hope the alligators his sorry ass.

KD, Nov 8th/9th Alky Breakdown said...

The moment Alky knew "had it all" Hillary had lost.



Blogger Roger Amick said...
Michigan,Michigan,Michigan and Nevada.

The Apocalypses is going to win.

November 8, 2016 at 10:10 PM"

the he went to cheering the lost of Millions of dollars



Roger Amick said...
Stock futures are rocketing down.

November 8, 2016 at 10:47 PM


then he hoped he could hold onto his Medicaid.

Roger Amick said...
wp, our incomes are defined benefit for life incomes. So no problem.

Unless Trump destroys Medcade. She has to hold onto Minneapolis, Nevada, Michigan. a slight chance. She also has to hold PA and Michigan and Wisconsin. "

the Meltdown was a delight to watch.



KD, Alky Ran away again, so typical what will be her excuse said...

releasing his returns"

They are protected by law and no need to release them, he WON.

opie said...

They are protected by law and no need to release them, he WON.

Yep, you sure are smart for a goat farmer. Maybe mooch and pubis can have a duel on the south lawn. I'm sure trump would approve. Idiot

KD, SIngle Payer in 3-5 years, now for sure said...

goes down in the swamp." Alky

Admitting that DC is the swamp is good to see, you are learning.


Roger Amick said...

I'm sure that our formerly esteemed host will think that this is appropriate.

Threatening to fire anyone who leaks and promising that the FBI will get anyone who “cock-blocked” him, Trump’s new Communication Director Anthony Scaramucci’s profanity littered phone call with Ryan Lizza is telling, mostly because he didn’t even know to ask for it to be off the record or on background.

Here are a few highlights from The New Yorker:

“Reince is a fucking paranoid schizophrenic, a paranoiac,” Scaramucci said. He channelled Priebus as he spoke: “ ‘Oh, Bill Shine is coming in. Let me leak the fucking thing and see if I can cock-block these people the way I cock-blocked Scaramucci for six months.’ ”

Saying he’s called the FBI and the DOJ, Scaramucci continued, “The swamp will not defeat him,” he said, breaking into the third person. “They’re trying to resist me, but it’s not going to work. I’ve done nothing wrong on my financial disclosures, so they’re going to have to go fuck themselves.”

“I’m not Steve Bannon, I’m not trying to suck my own cock.”

“What I want to do is I want to fucking kill all the leakers…”

He promised that he had digital footprints on White House aides who would soon be prosecuted.

This is the guy representing the President who got the white Christian conservative vote. His language is not unusual for this administration. While most people in politics can curse with the best, they know not to do it in public. They don’t use “cock block” and “suck my cock” in an on the record call.

They certainly would not do that if they were the Communications Director for the White House.

Which is exactly Scaramucci’s job title.

http://www.politicususa.com/2017/07/27/moochs-crazy-mobster-style-record-phone-call-fit-job.html

Roger Amick said...

He's even crazier than the crazy fucking president.

Roger Amick said...

Sam Brownback Officially Leaves Kansas With the Worst Economy in the Plains
KEVIN DRUMJUL. 27, 2017 2:33 PM


Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback has decided to step down from the governorship of Kansas in order to assume the vital post of ambassador at large for international religious freedom. If you’ve never heard of this position, you’re not alone.

Anyway, this marks the official end of the Brownback era in Kansas. As you may recall, he took office at the start of 2011, declaring that Kansas would be ground zero for a true test of conservative economic principles: slashing taxes on the rich and then making up for it by slashing spending on everyone else. It didn’t work out. To commemorate the full Brownback era, here is employment growth in Kansas compared to its neighboring states:


Brownback had a chance to beat one neighboring state, but at the last minute Oklahoma pulled out of a tie and recorded employment growth a little better than Kansas—despite a brutal recession caused by falling oil prices.

So that’s that. Over the course of the entire Brownback era, Kansas had the worst employment growth of any state in the region. Ditto for GDP growth. I don’t expect this to change any minds, though. Cutting taxes on the rich has never been about economic growth anyway.

K'putz needs to go f**k Daisy,moo moo moo

Roger Amick said...

From a friend on Facebook very articulate and accurate. This is a response to a #fakepresident post on Facebook


Donald Trump has disrespected and degraded women, he has bragged about grabbing them sexually, he has mocked disabled people, he has mocked and disrespected a prisoner of war, he has disrespected men and women with PTSD.He disrespected the parents of a veteran killed in the line of duty. He said out of his own mouth that he could stand in the street and shoot someone and not lose a supporter(which is probably the only true thing he ever said) He has shown absolutely ZERO class. He has the lowest approval rating of any President in 70 years. I'm surprised he didn't offer the boy scouts a beer and a ride to the strip club. NOW this draft dodging coward has the audacity to say that transgender people can not serve in our military in any capacity due to the financial strain they will impose. REALLY? So this man can make a broad statement about ALL transgender people ASSuming that they will be a greater burden on our system than any other group of people. This is just his F'd up way of discriminating against another group of people. What's next ? Gay people can't become nurses or doctors because their chances of transmitting a disease is greater than someone elses? And people are allowing this to happen. I guess they just don't give a crap until it affects them.

Loretta said...

Spam by the drunkard

Loretta said...

Sure.

Loretta said...

"From a friend on Facebook very articulate and accurate. This is a response to a #fakepresident post on Facebook"

http://www.mouthdung.org/original.html

Roger Amick said...

As usual. Mrs Alzheimer's has nothing to contribute. Five years, two months and two days.

Since she has been coherent: Infinity.

Roger Amick said...

The constitutional crisis maybe within the next few days .

If the president fires Attorney General sessions and replaces him with a appointee who can stay in office until the new session of Congress begins in January 2018, it is becoming very clear Congress will not tolerate this either party is going to put up with this. Especially if you've been far as the special prosecutor then we're looking at seriously, impeachment is a very strong possibility even with the Republicans in control of both houses of Congress.

It is very apparent that many Republicans are distancing themselves from Donald Trump already. Many Republicans and Democrats are looking at it like this. If he fires the special prosecutor, he is admitting guilt and should be removed from office. Most of the surviving Watergate prosecutors see that this is very similar or even worse than what Nixon did. He is very vulnerable to the possibility of impeachment and it could happen.

Even worse for himself, he is considering vetoing the law passed by ; majorities in the House and Senate imposing sanctions on the Russians.

Loretta said...

Spam by the drunkard

caliphate4vr said...

Fuck you Roger, Holder was held in contempt of congress for watching Bumble's back, for you to have feigned alarm that Trump might expect the same of hIs AG, falls deaf ears.

I also note with irony, that you claimed Sessions was a racist pig, when Trump nominated him now you're his greatest defender

Hypocrisy....

Bedrock...

Liberalism...

Roger Amick said...

I want to fucking kill all the leakers.
Preibus "Is fucking paranoid.'
Leaking on my financial situation "have committed fucking felonies".

The pubic communication director, if he is approved, is a fucking insult on the fucking Constitution that gets in the way of stopping the man I love will lead the fucking country to greatness.

Roger Amick said...

Paul you are fucking stupid. I'm not defending Sessions, I am calling the President an anti-Constitutional fucking paranoid and delusional fucking disaster.

If he fires Sessions, and appoints a temporary Attorney General who could hold the office until the next session of Congress in January. He would then fires Robert Mueller and stop the investigation. The Congress could then act conduct their own investigation, or better for the country, impeach the fucking worst fucking President in history. Take off your rrb blindfolds and quit loving the fucking President.

caliphate4vr said...

If he fires Sessions, and appoints a temporary Attorney General who could hold the office until the next session of Congress in January. He would

More nonsensical drivel from you, yet I'm the stupid one. Liver get a clue, Trump is not asking anything more of his AG, than the magic negro got from his , who was held in contempt of congress.

Fuck you, you're a hack!!

Roger Amick said...

The skinny Obamacare repeal went down the drain. McCain voted no.

Roger Amick said...

Bullshit.
Trump, if he fires Session, and then fires the special counsellor, he will face "dire consequences" as Graham said. The Senate could then higher Mueller, and continue the investigation without a break.

Those are the thoughts you may not like them but that's the truth. you better get over it fall is you're missing something you had way too much to drink tonight

Roger Amick said...

I hate the microphone

You are missing something there will be consequences if he does something like that very serious consequences.

Do yourself a favor and sleep it off. You're going to feel bad in the morning anyhow. I don't miss hangovers. You're going to have a bad one.

Roger Amick said...

You said out of ignorance.
"If he fires Sessions, and appoints a temporary Attorney General who could hold the office until the next session of Congress in January. He would"

More nonsensical drivel from you,

The problem is I'm absolutely right look it up. Now go to sleep it off.

Sobriety rocks

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Amen.

Roger Amick said...

Skinny care went down to defeat. McCain was the defining vote. Good for him and America.

Myballs said...

Good???

Obamacare is imploding you horse's ass.

rrb said...

Obamacare is imploding you horse's ass.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

indeed it is. and it needs to die a slow agonizing and very public death.

rrb said...



the GOP LIARS hall of shame:


Lamar Alexander, “The wisest course is to repeal Obamacare and replace it step by step with solutions that lower health care costs.”

Shelley Moore Capito, “I have consistently voted to repeal and replace this disastrous health care law, and I am glad that a repeal bill will finally reach the president’s desk.”

Dean Heller,“This DC bureaucrat-driven healthcare system will only result in limited health care choices and higher costs for Nevadans.”

Lisa Murkowski, “This law is not affordable for anyone in Alaska. That is why I will support the bill that repeals the ACA and wipes out its harmful impacts. I can’t watch premiums for Alaskans shoot up by 30 percent or more each year, see businesses artificially constrained, or see the quality of public education decline.”

John McCain, “It is clear that any serious attempt to improve our health care system must begin with a full repeal and replacement of Obamacare, and I will continue fighting on behalf of the people of Arizona to achieve it.”

Rob Portman, “I’m for repealing this broken law and replacing it with something better that gives patients more choice, decreases costs and increases access to quality, affordable care.”


Roger Amick said...

The Trump presidency is effectively over already. In the first six months is he has appointed a justice to the Supreme Court. That's it.

Obamacare faults and all still better than what we had before. 23 million more people are insured had it before and that is not going to change.

Don't forget the most every state that has the biggest problems with Obamacare are those with Republican governors and legislatures have refused to work with the system.

Above and beyond the house look at what's going on in the White House it is a total disaster and it is not going to get any better. Donald Trump does not know how to run the office of president, he has no clue.

Joint Chiefs of Staff refused to implement the transgender tweet. They said they will continue to let the people who are sworn to defend the country like anybody else, to continue protecting the United States.

They proposed fucking chief communications is a fucking jerk who can't stop his fucking mouth running off and saying ugly fucking things.

Donald J Trump will never be on Mount Rushmore anymore then Ronald Reagan will be.

More more people are understanding that Donald J Trump is the biggest fucking mistake this country is ever fucking made.

Obamacare has a rating of about 50% of approval.

The skinny plan would have taken away their health insurance, for 23 million Americans

35% will remain with him no matter what he does. That minority is well represented here.

The alleged alky represents well over 50% of American people.

You have to get fucking used to it.

The fucking racist rodent bigot has to suffer from the truth of my unbelievable recovery.

I am going to cease the use of Trumpspeech, and get ready for an early morning medical appointment. I love to remind him that the Medicare taxes he pays on every check from his cubicle job, is helping to pay for my liver transplant.

Commonsense said...

The Trump presidency is effectively over already. In the first six months is he has appointed a justice to the Supreme Court. That's it.

That one prediction from Roger is enough to convince me Trump is going to be one of the most successful presidents of the 21st century.

Loretta said...

"the GOP LIARS hall of shame:"

Swamp creatures.

Loretta said...

"That one prediction from Roger is enough to convince me Trump is going to be one of the most successful presidents of the 21st century."

So true. Roger hasn't been right about one prediction yet.

Roger Amick said...

I have to prepare for my early morning appointment. Thank you for paying for it. My co-pay is $10.00.

So far, my only expenses are lab work, radiology and prescription drugs. My maximum out of pocket $4,400

rrb said...

The fucking racist rodent bigot has to suffer from the truth of my unbelievable recovery.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

alky, now i know for certain that you are in the grip of mental illness.

for the last time - you, and your "recovery," mean nothing to me. the trash i drag to my curb every monday evening has more importance and significance to me than you do. the contents of those trash cans have more value than your pathetic and parasitic existence.

look at yourself. you're a self-described rock star orator to a pack of shitfaced drunks who meet in a vacant strip mall. you get your inspiration from the 'occupy democrats' facebook page. you're the poster child for everyone in the death grip of TDS. and your attempts at expressing your thoughts around here are akin to the diaries of an insane asylum inmate.

so, for the very last fucking time...

and please print this page for future reference...

you mean nothing to me. absolutely fucking nothing.

got it? good.




rrb said...

Blogger Roger Amick said...
I have to prepare for my early morning appointment. Thank you for paying for it.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

you're a skin tag dangling off a homeless guy's ass, alky.

rrb said...


The Myth of Trump’s Do-Nothing Presidency

Six months into his presidency, Donald Trump’s detractors portray him as a do-nothing president with no big wins on issues such as health care, taxes and infrastructure.

That may be true if the benchmark is legislation, but that is an incomplete benchmark. To gauge a president’s impact you have to go beyond the laws he signs to the vast authority he wields through departments and agencies that apply the law. On that score, Mr. Trump is on track to do a lot. On finance, the internet, immigration and drugs, to name just a few issues, Trump appointees have begun nudging the economy and the country in a more conservative, pro-business direction. Whether that is good or bad is to a great extent in the eye of the beholder. What isn’t debatable is that the imperial presidency, after expanding under Barack Obama, remains just as formidable under Mr. Trump.

In recent weeks headlines have been dominated by the Senate’s stop-start efforts to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act. Away from this drama, Mr. Trump’s Labor Department moved to undo Mr. Obama’s expansion of eligibility for overtime pay, financial regulators dropped efforts to tighten restrictions on banker pay and the Interior Department signaled it would rescind proposed rules on oil and gas fracking on federal land. On Wednesday, Mr. Trump announced transgender individuals couldn’t serve in the military, reversing an Obama-era decision.

In Mr. Trump’s first six months, rule-making has changed dramatically. The latest update on regulatory actions released last week by the White House Office of Management and Budget contained 1,731 preliminary, proposed or final rules, down 40% from its peak under Mr. Obama in 2011 and a 17-year low, according to Sofie Miller of George Washington University’s Regulatory Studies Center. Many actions taken under Mr. Trump are actually reversals of earlier rules. Ms. Miller says of 66 completed actions at the Environmental Protection Agency, a third were rule withdrawals.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-trumps-do-nothing-presidency-1501072779


opie said...

Menstrsl the cultist posted


Trump is going to be one of the most successful presidents of the 21st century.

Right after loretta flies.

opie said...

7 years to get a plan together and trump drive R's to abject failure. Yep, paybacks are a bitch, aren't they donnie. McCain and Murkowski sure are now not republicon's and will be the target of trumps wrath....He sure is a team builder like Mooch acting like rathole. Brilliant strategery to ban gays from the military. Great week so far....!!!!

opie said...

Our esteemed host is regaling in the trump aura of gay bashing and discrimination. How sad how our host, who is allegedly an atheist is acting just like a baptist or evangelical in his hatred of anything gay. Oh well, it will be a long long fall as trump world becomes dust in the wind... Sad..From today's fake news of NY ......

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration abruptly waded into the culture wars over gay rights this week, signaling in three separate actions that it will use the powers of the federal government to roll back civil rights for gay and transgender people.

Without being asked, the Justice Department intervened in a private employment lawsuit on Wednesday, arguing that the ban on sex discrimination in the Civil Rights Act of 1964 does not protect workers on the basis of their sexual orientation. The friend-of-the-court brief, filed at the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit in New York, was a striking shift in tone from the Obama administration, which had shied away from that question.

The move ended a day that began with a tweet from President Trump announcing a ban on transgender people serving in the military, surprising Pentagon leaders and reversing a year-old Obama administration policy.

Also on Wednesday, Mr. Trump announced that he would nominate Sam Brownback, the governor of Kansas and a vocal opponent of gay rights, to be the nation’s ambassador at large for international religious freedom.

Loretta said...

You forgot LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Commie

caliphate4vr said...

When did he ban gays from the military? You fat liar

opie said...

Anonymous caliphate4vr said...
When did he ban gays from the military? You fat liar

You know dayum well what he banned. Just like Jarerd, pushed the button to quickly. I guess your coming out got the best of me...As for loretta the cunt, she needs a new hobby, like playing the skin flute. Idiots, both of you. Go consult some poor soul that will bask in your self determined greatness,

Caliphate4vr said...

So you lied fatass

Loretta said...

"you're a skin tag dangling off a homeless guy's ass, alky."

An insult to skin tags everywhere, especially those on the ass of a homeless guy!

opie said...

Loretta posted another brilliant post

An insult to skin tags everywhere, especially those on the ass of a homeless guy!

You are a waste of O2 , loretta.

opie said...

Anonymous Caliphate4vr said...
So you lied fats

If that makes you feel bigger, asshole, yeah, I made a mistake by posting too quickly. You being perfect, have never done that;...How's your family taking you coming out??????

caliphate4vr said...

wow fatty you can't even come up with original insults.

Posting too quickly? You lied and caught yet again and aren't man enough to admit it.

Appears the only thing you're good at is shoveling pies in your face

is this you back in the day?

opie said...

Anonymous caliphate4vr said...
wow fatty you can't even come up with original insults.

I guess you coming out damaged your brilliant mind, since that is all you can come up with, so original it is funny.

d aren't man enough to admit it.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAA<, i Guess you have trouble reading, That's okay big boy, you are a winner in my book. LOL

caliphate4vr said...

You know dayum well what he banned. Just like Jarerd, pushed the button to quickly.

So i guess gay is really close to transgendered. Both have a 'g' and an 'a'. You didn't post too quickly, you lied

someone has posted your home movies on line

LMAO

opie said...


So i guess gay is really close to transgendered

Nice try genius. Again you prove why you sell insurance.....to dumb to do anything else...coming out really has affected those wounded brain cells of yours. And again, If it makes you feel better, think what ever you like. Idiot.

opie said...

Calithe gay blade posted...
someone has posted your home movies on line

U.S.
White House comms director Scaramucci: 'I'm not Steve Bannon, I'm not trying to suck my own c--k'
Harrison Jacobs,Business Insider 17 hours ago

Something cali wishes he could do......

wphamilton said...

Main in-house lawyer - ... not even license to practice law in the United States.

Right, she was the RUSSIAN lawyer involved in the case.

Huh? Why would you represent a family member of a guy accused of a crime? Reality - the firm actually represented Denis Katsyv (accused of money laundering). They never actually represented his father Petr Katsyv, who was never even named in either the criminal or civil case.

Natalia Veselnitskaya DID represent the father, Pyotr Katsyv, whom she defended against a money laundering charge in New York.

Family connections. Veselnitskaya was previously married to Aleksandr Mitusov, a former deputy transportation minister of the Moscow.

She also represented interests of FSB (Russia's Security Service).

She was a lawyer for Prevezon Holdings, the fraud laundering company that Katsyv was involved with.

If Petr Katsyv was really "high ranking" they would refer to him by his "high rank" (you know like "defense minister" or "intelligence director").

Vice Premier of the Moscow regional government. Minister of Transport. And all around crime boss neck deep in fraud and government corruption, perhaps the highest "rank" in Russian governments.

It doesn't seem so benign does it CH, when you "decipher" it with facts. Rather than rewording it to soft-pedal the connections and the past history of the individuals, as you sought to do.

These are criminals, HC. She is a lawyer representing crime bosses, in the hip pocket of crime bosses. Why on Earth are you supporting them ... they aren't even bribing you. Not threatening you. Do you just identify with them? Why?

C.H. Truth said...

Right, she was the RUSSIAN lawyer involved in the case.

Her whole firm is Russian. She is one of many RUSSIANS.

Pyotr Katsyv, whom she defended against a money laundering charge in New York.

- Denis was accused of money laundering. There is no record of Pyotr ever being charged...
- Veselnitskaya could not have represented "either" in any case in New York, as she is not licensed to practice law in the United States.

So whoever your sources is for both of these bits of information is entirely wrong.

Vice Premier of the Moscow regional government

How about Moscow regional transportation minister? That is the official title he has been said to hold by numerous sources?


Where are you reading your bullshit?
A) The Daily Kos
B) The Daily Beast

C.H. Truth said...

But you certainly have a good point when you point out that a law firm has clients who are involved with criminal activity. Because that hardly ever happens.

wphamilton said...

The case was settled Prevezon (owned by Denis) was settled with the DOJ two days before trial. There is no law that Veselnitskaya cannot represent him, or anyone else, in such matters. You need to re-examine your assumptions.

wphamilton said...

Would you believe a pdf bearing the letterhead of the US House of Representatives, Committee on the Judiciary?

https://www.scribd.com/document/353611353/Letter-to-AG-Sessions-7-12-17?irgwc=1&content=10079&campaign=Skimbit%2C%20Ltd.&ad_group=35871X943606X271f5393200b2c92b953439cd9438ed8&keyword=ft750noi&source=impactradius&medium=affiliate#from_embed

C.H. Truth said...

Two things W.P.

1) this document confirms that it was Denis (not Pyotr as you suggest) who was facing charges. This is a significant degree of separation from claiming "ties to the Kremlin" by representing a former Russian government official.


2) part of the questions surrounding her temporary Visa was the fact that she was not licensed to practice in The US. But was offered the visa because she claimed she was representing this client (when she was actually spending her time lobbying to overturn this law). It wouldn't be hard to look up the case and find her name as attorney (but I would bet you don't see it anywhere)

So the facts here are vague and don't make sense. But the one fact we CAN establish was that she was not representing Pyotr.

C.H. Truth said...

You "used" to be at least marginally cynical of these things. Now you run with every rumor you read.

For instance... Just because someone says she postponed a meeting to be I court... isn't evidence that she was in court... Just because there is an official letterhead on the memo.

wphamilton said...

The document states that she represented Prevezon Holdings in Federal Court. That pretty much destroys your basic tenant that she couldn't do so, as that would be "practicing law".

The company is described as "Russian Criminal organization", which destroys a second of your premises,

The document was written by the Judiciary Committee, which is not as you surmised, "Daily Kos".

Face it, you missed on every count. It not only "seems really really bad", but it IS bad. Certainly not "fairly trivial". Not according to your Republican House of Representatives, quoting a US Attorney for the District of New York.

C.H. Truth said...

No, WP... the document actually asks the question as to whether she was invloved in the settlement of that case.

It's question number one. (More of an allegation)

If she was an attorney of record in this case, she would be listed on the documents... as attorneys of record are in most every legal document. (Check your legal docs, divorce, etc... Your attorney will be listed and most likely signed it).

So she obviously wasn't listed "officially" or they wouldn't have to ask the question. They would know.


But either way... you are still dead wrong as to your assertion she represented Pyotr... and I suspect that you know you are wrong about his standing in the Russian Government.

Just the facts Jack. I don't buy the hype, the rumors, or the allegations. In fact, I am more inclined to believe she (the lawyer) is tied closer to Fusion GPS than she is to the Kremlin.

C.H. Truth said...

Lets be clear here WP.. this is a letter of allegations from four Democrats in the House.

The footnotes reference media reports.

You can mindlessly be fooled because it's on letterhead if you want.

I don't just believe congress members citing media reports as Gospel as you apparently do.

wphamilton said...

Every reference I find shows him as former Minister of Transport of the Moscow region, or similar description with different phrasing. How do you figure that I'm wrong?

BTW, their quoting of the US Attorney for the NY district was hardly "citing media reports". You've got a handful of losing cards here CH, best to just drop it.

C.H. Truth said...

Every reference I find shows him as former Minister of Transport of the Moscow region, or similar description with different phrasing. How do you figure that I'm wrong?

That is actually the same description I have provided, WP... and for the life of me, I cannot find Regional Ministers listed in the high levels of the Russian Government anywhere. (go figure) It appears to be a position somewhere under the Ministry of Transport, but it is not one of the positions listed as reporting "directly" to that Minister. So at best, the regional minister would report to someone who reports to an actual Federal Ministry. In an org chart of a major corporation, it would be a middle manager who answers to a department head, who answers to Vice President.

So you can deem this to be some "high level" position if it suits you... but you and I would simply agree to disagree with that description (especially considering the implications is that this persons somehow represents the direct tie to the Russian election meddling). Not to mention, that is not the guy's current profession. It's his former profession.


Either way... I stand by my points.

Veselnitskaya does not practice law in the United States... in fact she doesn't even speak English. The idea that a non-English speaking attorney with no license to practice law in the United States was the "main attorney" in this extremely high profile case (but nobody seemed to know who she was till she met with Don Jr) is ludicrous. By all accounts, she spent most of her time in the United States, lobbying for her cause.

The Son Denis (not the father Pyotr) is who was charged and who was represented by Veselnitskaya's firm. You argued otherwise, but have failed to bring any evidence that Pyrotr was ever accused, charged, or had any need to be represented.

Pyrotr's title does not suggest "high ranking" by any standard applied to "influence" and for the most part, those who are making this argument continue to suggest he is "still" part of the Russian Government, when he is not.


You can choose (if you like) to be swayed by this argument... and you can even choose (if you like) to believe that four Democrats in Congress suddenly gain objective credibility because of letterhead. You can choose (if you like) to believe everything you are told.

I will continue to do my own research, not take politicians at their word, and continue to be skeptical of these sorts of seven degrees of separation arguments.

C.H. Truth said...

By the way... a bass player I played with back in the 80's used to room in the Air Force with a guy who played in a band with Brian Setzer of the Stray Cats. The Stray Cats once toured with the Rolling Stones, who knew the Beatles.

That pretty much makes me close personal friends with Ringo Star and Paul McCartney.

wphamilton said...

"nobody seemed to know who she was" you say, because she spoke Russian and practiced in Russia, representing a Russian criminal organization?

But that's "trivial" you think, and only "looks bad", because according to you she can't be "representing" anyone in the US. And you don't think it was really a criminal organization, because it was "only" the House Judiciary Committee, the US Attorney, courts, settlements and so on. You know, "Daily Kos" type sources per you.

You can "stand by" your points if you want, but it looks more like you're falling on them.

C.H. Truth said...

I guess when you accept everything you read in the Daily Beast or believe every accusation from Democratic members of Congress as if it's always the Gospel truth...

then it's going to be difficult to consolidate those beliefs with someone a little more cynical and who demands some actual evidence before assuming an international criminal conspiracy is being led by a British Publicist representing a Russian pop singer and a Russian Lawyer/Lobbyist...

Pretty much entirely because the lawyer (or her firm) has a criminal client (who actually broke the law) who's dad once worked as a mid level Minister in the Russian Government.