Friday, August 18, 2017

False equivalency argument trivializes violence..

So I am openly stealing the premise of this argument from Scott Adams, who by the way spends way too much time on a video explaining his concept in way too much detail. But his long winded approach aside, he generally makes sense, and this time is no different. 


The argument is fairly simple. The politically approved manner in which our leaders are supposed to respond to a problem is by doing so in descending order of importance. In the case of Charlottesville, the appropriate response would have been the following:
  • Reflect on the tragedy that someone died
  • Offer best wishes for the family and friends of the victim
  • Chastise the individual who committed the act responsible for the death
  • Officially condemn the white supremacists for being white supremacists 
Then, and only then, the argument goes... would a leader be free to then call out (to a lesser degree) any other players who had a hand in what went wrong. In theory (and in all honesty) those who could be called out would be and antifascists, the actions of the police standing down, and perhaps even the local politicians who seemed very disinterested in heading off violence. 

The problem, however, seems two fold. 

First, the President apparently didn't offer harsh enough words for the individual (in the minds of some), and he pretty much skipped step four and went directly to calling pretty much everyone and their brother for what happened. In other word, he didn't follow the normal political script. 

Second, there was an obvious concerted effort on the left to push back on any sort of blame being pointed in "any" direction other than the white supremacists. The liberal talking points argument (as they generally are) appeared to be well coordinated, and was quickly launched by nearly everyone on the left. The argument being that any such attempt to blame anyone "other" then the White Supremacists was a "false equivalence". 

Now logically, the false equivalence accusation might make sense, if you were talking about whether or not you are comparing "ideology" and only "ideology".  For nearly all Americans, there is nothing lower than being a white supremacist in 2017. As much as the antifascists might have an appalling viewpoint, for most it would not rise to the level of being a White Supremacist. When you consider that about half of Americans don't know who the antifascists really are, then it's a no win proposition to compare ideologies. 

However, the President was not comparing ideologies and never brought up ideology. He was simply comparing the actual "actions" of the people involved. This seems to be what fuels the disconnect between those who believe the President's response was totally inappropriate, and those who believed it was entirely appropriate. If you believe he was comparing ideologies, you probably thought he not only missed the boat, but was miles away on dry land. But if you believe he was comparing the actions, then the facts suggests that his response was at the very least accurate. 

So where is the trivializing of violence?  Well, it's obvious. 

By demanding that there was no moral equivalence to the "actions" of those involved... you are making an obvious argument that violence is appropriate, as long as it is directed at the right (or wrong) people. To make the argument that the action of swinging a baseball bat is somehow a morally "different" action to take depending on whether you are wearing Nazi army fatigues or a antifa black mask... absolutely trivialize the action in question. 

If you were being careful "not" to trivialize violence, you would simply argue that swinging a baseball bat at someone you disagree with politically or socially is wrong one hundred percent of the time. You wouldn't demand that there is a "degree" to how wrong it is to commit this sort of violence, depending on whether or not you agree or disagree with the underlying ideology of the person committing the action. 

So the real question becomes... is there a such thing as justifiable political violence?  Are we really ready to throw out the first amendment, and allow someone (politicians, judges) to make choices as to who actually does and does not deserve a bat to the side of the head because their political views are offensive? 

Because that appears to be the argument the left is pushing here.  

38 comments:

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Dilbert: This explains the questions I have asking. (45)ism.®Roger L. Amick.

Liver doctor: In favor of release. Meeting at 10:00, discussion. Will be informed about 12:00. If I can go home.

Have a good day Mr. Block

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...


James Murdoch, chief executive of Fox News’ parent company, became the latest corporate leader to blast President Trump over his response to the recent racially charged attack in Charlottesville, Va.

“[W]hat we watched this last week in Charlottesville and the reaction to it by the president of the United States concern all of us as Americans and free people,” Murdoch wrote in an email letter to friends. “These events remind us all why vigilance against hate and bigotry is an eternal obligation — a necessary discipline for the preservation of our way of life and our ideals.”

:Patriot James said...

Maybe Ch wants us to start using bullets with pigs' blood on them.

james said...

I mean, using pigs blood is just an action, isn't it?

amused, James said...

The Worst Week in Trump’s Presidency

MaryAlice Parks: “Left alone and shunned this week, President Trump has taken to screaming and lobbing insults at folks from his Twitter account as they turn their backs and head for the door. Isolated, he has retreated to extreme nativist and racially charged language. He began Thursday, verbally spitting on two Republican lawmakers, an astounding move considering that, despite their rebuke of his recent comments, party members remain some of the only potential allies he has left. Hours later, Trump doubled-down on his defense for Confederate statues, echoing phrases used by white nationalists over the weekend about the country’s ‘culture’ being under attack.

“He ended the day tweeting a discredited legend about a World War I-era U.S. general’s killing Muslims with bullets dipped in pig’s blood. The timing appeared to be in reference to the attack in Barcelona, begging the question: Was the president of the United States suggesting that tactic? This week has arguably been the worst in his presidency and has left members of his party unsure how to pick up the pieces.”

Commonsense said...

Killing murderous ISIS thugs with pig's blood bullets works for me.

If it facilitates sending them the hell for all eternity I'm all for it.

C.H. Truth said...

I wonder if anyone left of center can actually think for themselves anymore?

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Steve Bannon is gone! Per the New York Times.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

It is not some people c h. From Senator Corker who is the chairman of the Senate defense committee went off on the President yesterday specifically! Unbelievable but you continue to claim you're in the majority you are not at least in the people that matter those in the house the Senate his own damn staff. The Joint Chiefs of Staff made it clear yesterday or 2 days ago they did not agree with the president. I do not hate this guy he scares the holy s*** out of me I save hope hate as they hate hate hate hate hate for the people that killing people by the millions like Hitler and people's like that okay I don't hate Donald Trump. I think he's a mentally disturbed man that should never be in the office. But you continue to find a way to excuse it using a cartoonist!

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

I make up my own mind no one tells me how to think or what to think. I'm a mature intelligent man and I don't need that. I've been a very good judgment of character my entire life. It doesn't take me long to figure somebody out. For years I thought we disagreed but you were thoughtful. I simply don't understand what is motivating you to take the stands you do.

KD said...

HB is that the same intelligence that Sai today that Isis no longer has any power in Iraq?

Or that Hillary wins by over 75 electoral votes?

Or still so late in life own a home mortgage?

KD said...

When paul Freddie krugman said a Pres Trump would crash the Dow Jones, Nov 9th you cheered the futures drop and a dow 17000.

Or your news election prediction, the landslide in 2018 giving the US House and US Senate majority to the Dems, but,you are unable to endorse the "better deal" of granny Polosey and granddad Schummer nor can you give your own reasons going forward.

C.H. Truth said...

I make up my own mind no one tells me how to think or what to think. I'm a mature intelligent man and I don't need that.

Roger... none of you could go a day without a half dozen cut and pastes. It's actually quite remarkable when you compare it to other comment threads where people think for themselves.

So while you can "claim" all you want.

Your actions betray you.

Commonsense said...

I wonder if anyone left of center can actually think for themselves anymore?

I think you got your answer.

Commonsense said...

A state senator in Missouri has called for the assassination of the president of the United States and none of the three stooges here have the decency to call her out on it.

They enable the political violence with their tacit approval.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

On the Democratic Party:

There is nobody that I have seen emerge that may turn to the next leader we need not yet . I have a couple in mind I'm not gonna mention any names both of them are of minorities one is Hispanic and one is Asian . One is from Texas and one is in California you can probably figure out what I'm talking about if you look around.

Pelosi and the others are wonderful people but their time has passed. I'm a member of the generation of baby boomer . We're fading fast I'm going to make a few more years no matter what is going on with my liver all that good stuff. But the Democrats do have to get their stuff together and put together a coherent pro person pro workingman party policy and very carefully keep diversity part of it. But sometimes that bothers some people and we don't quite know how to handle that.

I don't either I'm not gonna say that I understand how to do that.

But mainly we got to forward with a way to put the economy much more equal basis, and make it progressive, with increasing wages and benefits and universal medical care. that is the bottom line. The top 1% is going to fight it every inch of the way. The middle class has a much smaller percentage of the gross domestic product since the election of Ronald Reagan. We have to find a way to bring that and turn that around. Universal Medical Care would be a one-step but it's going to be difficult. But if we'd actually work together there might be a way to get something done may not be in quite in the style of Western Europe but it can be done. But both sides must honestly work together as they used to do right now and I'm not going to blame either side but right now they do not work with each other and they have to start doing that now. If you noted in the last few weeks the John McCain he mentioned that again and again and again that we need to go back to the days when we would sit down at the desk and figure it out. Right now it does not happen and that is how we have to make it work and is going to have to take work from both sides.. President number 45 will not do that so the Congress is going to have to make that happen without him.

The Donald Trump types, no not you but rrb, will consistently use racism and white superiority to use the discomfort felt by many with the changes in United States. His use of Birther Bs, succeed unfortunately.

To the eternal shame of the Republican party, is when they did not denounce the birthism of Donald J Trump, history will judge them harshly. It was a based on a racial view of the world and that is not acceptable and is United States.

This is just me.

commie said...

United States and none of the three stooges here have the decency to call her out on it.

Wonder if anyone from the right will see the light.....haven't seen the story but if true....she's another idiot who should resign.....

commie said...


They enable the political violence with their tacit approval.

Like donnie winking at the nazi's and giving them cover.....Dayum you are an idiot....

Commonsense said...

“Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans,"

Donald J. Trump


That's some racist dog whistle there Opie.

Anonymous said...


Blogger C.H. Truth said...
I wonder if anyone left of center can actually think for themselves anymore?
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

it dawned on me that roger's problem could be that he's been lacking his daily dose of 0linsky man gravy since inauguration day.

Anonymous said...

Blogger Roger Amick said...
I make up my own mind no one tells me how to think or what to think. I'm a mature intelligent man and I don't need that.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


KERRY BY A LANDSLIDE!!!11!

HILLARY BY A LANDSLIDE!!!11!

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

I need to shoot every Mexican trying to cross the border and let the bodies rot as a warning to others. Rrb can f*** himself. I made a comment comment and all you have is a stupid insult one of the times you perhaps one day you'll grow up but I doubt it it's too damn late go have another PBR and shut the f****** up

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

This is important news that isn't regards to the problem with number 45 they just keep getting worse and worse and worse. The Republican party is going to have to step forward or he is finally going to have to start listening. But I don't think he's capable of it he is defensive and impulsive and old and will no longer adjust to what the world really is.

Three charities announced Thursday that they were canceling fundraisers at Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort, a sign the president's business is starting to suffer backlash from his comments Tuesday about the violence in Charlottesville, Virginia.

The Cleveland Clinic said in a statement that it decided not to hold its annual event at his Palm Beach resort after "careful consideration" of a number of issues. It didn't elaborate, but the Ohio-based hospital was already under pressure to shift venues.

Doctors, nurses and medical students of the hospital had signed a public letter earlier this year objecting to Mar-a-Lago given President Trump's plans to cut funding of medical research and other policies.

The Cleveland Clinic has held its annual fundraiser at the resort for eight years.

A few hours after the hospital pulled out, the American Cancer Society said it also planned to shift the venue of its annual fundraiser, called the 2018 Island of Palm Beach gala.


"Our values and commitment to diversity are critical as we work to address the impact of cancer in every community," spokeswoman Miriam Falco said in statement. "It has become increasingly clear that the challenge to those values is outweighing other business considerations."

Anonymous said...

I made a comment comment and all you have is a stupid insult one of the times you perhaps one day you'll grow up but I doubt it it's too damn late go have another PBR and shut the f****** up
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

WHAT???

LOL.

slow down and relax alky. if you don't calm down the doctors will never loosen your restraints.

you want to go home someday, don't you? without the straightjacket?



commie said...


That's some racist dog whistle there Opie.

Too bad he backtracked the following day telling us all how there were good nazi's in the crowd of thugs....The dog whistle is your air rushing through your head.....

Commonsense said...

It would be.

But he didn't.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

I am going home!

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

I made a coherent comment and all you had was an insult. Rrb you are a stupid I mean seriously stupid man. And you're racist comments on the shooting Mexicans on the border or is you call them beaners. Why in the hell would anybody take you seriously. Your family must hate your hate-filled life because you hate everything that isn't White and hates black and you know whatever anything that isn't just a generic white white white white white white white thing shut the f****** you drunken fool

Anonymous said...

Roger Amick said...

I am going home!
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


YAY ALKY!!!


"Your family must hate your hate-filled life because you hate everything that isn't White and hates black and you know whatever anything that isn't just a generic white white white white white white white thing shut the f****** you drunken fool"


don't let them see that comment alky, or they may just roll you from the drunks r us wing straight to the looney bin.

Anonymous said...




hey alky,

do we have a motive for the barcelona attack yet, or are we going with cnn's charlottesville copycat "theory?"

A great American patriot named James said...

It is interesting how you in your analysis, Ch, you studiously put all the emphasis on "white supremacists" but never specifically on KKKers and Nazis whom you studiously avoided mentioning.

Interesting too, that you think there is some sort of "normal political script" for dealing with white supermacists, KKKers and Nazis. Most Democrats, Independents, and many Republicans would not look at it that way.

Strange that you do.

Trump is so far out of the bounds of normalcy, it is appalling.

But not to you, obviously.

We shall see how great a price the GOP must pay for trying to excuse the inexcusable.

Encouraged, James said...

Washington Post: “The potential for Bannon to wreak havoc and mischief on the White House from the outside is among the reasons Trump had been skittish about firing his chief strategist. And Bannon himself had used wartime metaphors to signal to friends and confidants that he would continue to pursue his nationalist, populist agenda if he leaves his government perch.”

James said...

What Bannon Does Next

Jonathan Swan: “Steve Bannon’s next moves will be all about the billionaire Mercer family. I’m told Bannon, who visited New York this week, met with Bob Mercer and together they will be a well-funded force on the outside.

“Bannon has felt liberated since it became clear he was being pushed out, according to friends. He’s told associates he has a ‘killing machine’ in Breitbart News, and it’s possible he returns to lead their editorial operation.

“A source familiar with Breitbart’s operations told me they would go ‘thermonuclear’ against ‘globalists’ that Bannon and his friends believe are ruining the Trump administration, and by extension, America.”

KD said...

Portland knows of antifa and the millions of dollars of damage they did there.

KD said...

Antifa international facebook has chapters of "resistance" in sweden,norway,germany,UK and US.

Opie knows so little.

commie said...

Sure they do.....I'm sure anyone could start a facebvook page and claim anything they want...KD doing what he does best, admiring nazi's.......asshole....

commie said...

And KD knows shit....just as I thought...there really is no organization as you claim....asshole

Antifa activists, who operate without any centralized leadership, told CNN that their goal is peace and inclusivity. They often denounce capitalism and government. Since Trump entered the world stage, they've condemned his push to tighten immigration rules and what some view as his tendency toward racism.

wphamilton said...

Fringe groups screaming their whack-out ideas at each other, stirring each other up that they dream of violence and delusions of relevance.

I'm talking about antifa and racists btw ...