Tuesday, August 15, 2017

Yes, liberals have become science deniers...

So ever since the James Damore memo circulated there has been a sort of "circling of the wagons" regarding the liberal ideology of a fluid gender spectrum where as a society we should demand that there are no actual differences between the sexes. The ideology suggests that when the only real equality is sameness, that anyone who suggests otherwise has to be shut down and discredited. Especially if such an argument has the audacity to include anything "scientific".

typical angry white alt right attitude
Today I read another piece today from The Guardian where James Damore is declared to be part of the "radicalization of angry white men" as well as an "alt-right hero". All because he pointed out that there are studies within biology, neuroscience, and behavior psychology that suggest there is an actual difference between the sexes. I am not exactly sure how citing scientific studies makes you an "angry white man" or why neuroscience, biology, and behavioral psychology is suddenly part of the "alt right"... but perhaps that is why I am not a liberal.

This author uses the classic argument that because there is an alternate opinion or study that suggests differently than what the original argument or study suggests... that the first study is now "debunked". Ironically, by the same logic, wouldn't the existence of the original study debunk the alternate opinion as well?

Of course the link to the other article that "debunks" the claims, actually admits that the science cited by Damore does exist, but uses a typical straw man logical fallacy as the attempt to debunk it. The author of the debunking piece (who wrote a book called "how science got women wrong") suggests that all of the neuroscience arguments are tied to autism and testosterone. Of course, neither Damore or any of the neuroscientists cite any studies dealing with autism, but rather more specific studies that study brain activity of males and females. I guess the argument is that if you can question "something" that some neuroscientists might suggest, that anything anyone from that field concludes can now be deemed "debunked".  Of course, let's also not forget (as the debunker would like us to do) that the neuroscience study was only one of the many studies Damore included in his paper.

Moreover, the debunker even admits that "are" differences between the sexes, exactly in the manner that Damore and his cited studies suggest, but that they are what she calls the "tiniest of gaps".  But, as pointed out by many others, even small biological and neurological gaps between the sexes can promote tangible differences in behavior. In fact, its fair to argue that in the grand scheme of things, the biological and neurological difference between a person of genius level IQ and someone with well below average intelligence to the degree of mental retardation would be (as a matter of scale) extremely tiny (or almost non-existent).

At the end of the day, science is never perfect. Sometimes it even gets things entirely wrong. But science is supposed to be objective and removed entirely of any ideological beliefs. Any science that is predisposed to prove or disprove something for any reason "other" than the pursuit of the truth is not real science. There is no indication that any of the scientific studies that Damore cited were politically motivated by the alt right or anyone else. They appear to be simply scientific studies that draw a conclusion that runs counter to what certain political ideologies would like to believe.

24 comments:

commie said...

When you publish some actual science....Let us know...Demore is a wannabe, just like you.....

caliphate4vr said...

And you're a never was, Fatty

wphamilton said...

I'd like to see the actual science purporting to demonstrate this:

"But, as pointed out by many others, even small biological and neurological gaps between the sexes can promote tangible differences in behavior. "

Damore's memo was not a "study" by the way.

"Ironically, by the same logic, wouldn't the existence of the original study debunk the alternate opinion as well?"

No. The "alternate opinions" that you're referring to demonstrated that the original results could not be reproduced. There is no reciprocity nor equivalence here. When experimental results cannot be reproduced, the original conclusions are indeed debunked. It's one of the ways that science differs from (and is superior to) semantic debate.

wphamilton said...

As for "gender fluidity" I don't see that as reflecting a "liberal" political philosophy. Perhaps a small group, who tend to stake out an extreme doctrinal position with respect to genders, tend to also be generally liberal in politics.

You know, if someone denies any biological and neurological differences between the sexes, that denial also denies their fundamental assumption that every strange variant is somehow genetically determined.

C.H. Truth said...

Damore's memo was not a "study" by the way.

Nobody has argued as such. Both articles were in regards to the studies Damore references in his memo... with the latter author specifically addressing the neuroscience studies that he referenced.

At least both of these authors acknowledge that he did actually cite real scientific studies (even as certain people here denied as much).

C.H. Truth said...

No. The "alternate opinions" that you're referring to demonstrated that the original results could not be reproduced.

Yet, there are still multiple neuroscientists who have stated "in the past week" that the concept of male and female brain patterns being different is a bona-fide fact that nobody within their field disputes? So if there is a study that has debunked "that" claim, apparently these neuroscientists have not seen it (or do not find it credible). They stand behind their studies.

I think what the author suggests... is that a completely different study regarding autism and testosterone has not satisfactorily proven the suggested theory that they were related. Although I did not recall if she provided any of those studies for us to review... or if we were just to take her word for it.

Either way... the former science seems rather independent of the latter study (in spite her suggestion otherwise).

Anonymous said...

wphamilton said...
As for "gender fluidity" I don't see that as reflecting a "liberal" political philosophy.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


if there is a person on the right espousing the "gender is fluid and is a social construct" meme, i'd love to see it.

currently that nonsense flows exclusively from the left.

KD, oDopie dreams of mens cocks said...

The fairy dust solar panel crowd is demanding more power be put on the grid on the day of the full Eclipses, funny, demanding that they be bailed out, ok, for a price, sure, burn more coal.

KD, oh so good Pocahontas 2020 said...

wphamilton said...
As for "gender fluidity" I don't see that as reflecting a "liberal" political philosophy. "

Blind , get WP a white cane .


Would sure be nice to see the Democrats explain the "better deal", I have been told it exists.

Madam Pocahontas has told us the problem why Hillary lost is she listen to the men, like her so called Hubby Bill and other men and the other reason really, the other reason is Hillbilly was not willing to defend the left, to go left more and to go all in for single payer. Pocahontas 2020, I am all in for that.

wphamilton said...

Yet, there are still multiple neuroscientists who have stated "in the past week" that the concept of male and female brain patterns being different is a bona-fide fact that nobody within their field disputes? So if there is a study that has debunked "that" claim

You keep bringing that up as if it proves something, and pretending that some people including me are disputing it. So I'll be blunt.

Who cares that nobody "debunks" that particular claim? Nobody even thinks it's implausible. Not earthshaking. Not different than what one would expect. Doesn't imply that Demore's claims are true.

All you did there was avoid answering the simple question: who, if anyone, declares that "even small neurological differences can promote tangible differences in behavior." Where is this "science" that you declare everyone is denying? If you can't find it, doesn't it occur to you that it doesn't exist, not in the way that you believe it to?

wphamilton said...

rrb, currently that nonsense flows exclusively from the left.

If so, it doesn't mean that it's leftist nonsense.

Any more than the overt white supremacist nonsense flowing from right-wing fringe groups is conservative nonsense.

C.H. Truth said...

WP...

First of all, yes... one of the referenced studies made specific reference to how little difference there has to be in our biological and neurological make up to create a vast difference in our behavior. It was pointed out that a human's DNA is somewhere between 99-96% the same as a Chimpanzee (depending on the source)... but quite obviously the behavior of these two species is vastly different. The theory is that any consistent measurable difference (regardless of how small) can scientifically account for many differences in human behavior. No, I don't recall off hand, which one it was.

But aside from that...

You realize that in many ways you are simply proving "exactly" what I am projecting will happen with much of this...

The reality is that when it comes to these sorts of scientific questions, there is never going to be 100% consensus. As long as someone can cite some study that seems to show something even slightly different than what the other study shows, there will be demands from someone that all conclusions to the contrary of whatever they believe are true are debunked and discredited.

Therefore, someone can always move in with some political, ideological or even religious motivated claim and demand equal respect for their position, because whatever "general consensus" there is isn't 100% and therefore their theory might as well be taken as seriously as the next theory.


So let me ask it to you this way... would it be wrong to give "more" credence to those scientific conclusions that appear devoid of championing some political, ideological, or religious agenda?

Would it be equally wrong to react with skepticism to scientific claims where those responsible seem to have an obvious personal bias or predetermined idea of what a particular scientific conclusion would help prove their own cause?

commie said...

aliphate4vr said...
And you're a never was, Fatty

And you are just a bucket cunt lapping asshole who thinks he is gods gift to humanity....Obsessed and always in your menial head is most enjoyable to observe. Gee I want to be a sales man just like Paulie....what a dream life.....LOLOLOL

Real scientists said...

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=scientists+who+say+the+earth+is+not+circling+the+sun&view=detail&mid=CAEF728836B43170754FCAEF728836B43170754F&FORM=VIRE

Real scientists say the earth is not circling the sun.


caliphate4vr said...

Obsessed and always in your menial head is most enjoyable to observe

You never have an original thought, fatty

It's pitiful

wphamilton said...

But aside from that...

LOL I should hope so, aside from the genetic difference of humans and chimpanzees, the y chromosone difference ... you're a funny guy sometimes.

So have you found any study, or an opinion yet, that small neurological differences manifest in "significant" behavioral differences? We're all still waiting ...

good old decent democracy minded james said...

Trump approval plunges to new Gallup low.

James said...

Trump Gives White Supremacists an Unequivocal Boost

The New York Times 25 minutes ago

caliphate4vr said...

My apologies to all, Jimmie is a fucking moron, whom I should never react too.

He has the brain of a turd, I let go of this morning

Loretta said...

"good old decent democracy minded james"

Doesn't exist.

Real moniker is James the pedo.

commie said...

Anonymous caliphate4vr said...
My apologies to all, Jimmie is a fucking moron, whom I should never react too.

He has the brain of a turd, I let go of this morning

The big man spews his bile....no wonder he loves trump being the white supremacist he is.....

Loretta said...

You forgot LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Russian commie.

commie said...

“Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth,” David Duke, a former Ku Klux Klan leader, wrote in a Twitter post shortly after Mr. Trump spoke.

commie said...

He spoke of “very fine people on both sides.” And of the demonstrators who rallied on Friday night, some chanting racist and anti-Semitic slogans, he said, “You had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest.”


Those wonder people also wonder how donnie could give his daughter up to a Jew......And Jared says nothing and continues to stroke his ego and work for a bigoted WH....the kid has now pride or balls, sorry for a group of people who the nazi's tried to exterminate and trump supports....