The President claims he will not sign anything that doesn't include the four pillars. Democrats will not entertain any plan that includes all of the four pillars. So, what we have is a classic political "stand off". Which is to say that we can look for people to spend more time spinning blame, than solving the issue.
Some points:
- All polling shows that the general public wants overall immigration reform. The more areas that are addressed, the more popular the reform will be. While the Democrats seem to believe that they can push a clean DACA fix, or a fix with some limited changes and a few bucks for border security, that is not what the general public wants.
- The President's four pillar plan is popular. Each individual piece of the puzzle (DACA, chain migration, visa lottery, and border security) is popular on their own... and by a two to one margin the American public believes that the four pillar plan is reasonable and responsible.
- A plan being bi-partisan does not make that plan either good or fair, especially when bi-partisan is a bunch of Democrats and Lindsey Graham or a bunch of Democrats and John McCain. The issue will still be what is included. Less is not more in the eyes of the American public.
- The dreamers will not be deported if the plan falls apart. There will be very limited tangible effects, but very many political effects. This is more of a political piece of mind, and an expectation deal with many Hispanics and immigration supporters. They have been offered a pathway to citizenship.
- Fair or not, the President and conservative have created a negative stigma regarding chain migration and the visa lottery system. Defending these programs is a risk. Allowing the dreamer deal to fall apart defending them, is very dangerous.
Both sides run the risk of being blamed if this whole thing falls through. But ultimately, the President is on record with the American public as offering a reasonable compromise that includes the one thing that the Democrats have been clamoring for.
The media will certainly spin this as the GOP demanding too much for something that the public is in favor of. But that is an argument that is only half right. The mainstream public does not just see this as just an issue with the dreamers. They also are in favor of the things that the GOP is asking for.
33 comments:
If the Grassley "4 Pillar" bill gets a vote and fails, and the centrist bipartisan immigration bill comes to Trump, it would be out of character for him to reject it. Which, I think, gives more political strength to the moderate approach than one would expect in this Congress.
What's moderate?
Something that reflects what the American public wants?
Or something that reflects what the far left wants?
So what if the House passes the Goodlatte, McCaul bill that encompasses the four pillars, but the Senate passes something else?
I don't believe you will win points with the general public by offering that less is more?
Moderate Bill
Democrats get 800 thousand, wait 1.6 million growing daily , DACA ADULTS.
Trump
End chain Immigration
Insane Lottery
Wall full funding
Shakehans and be done
Blogger C.H. Truth said...
What's moderate?
what difference does it really make? what we're ultimately talking about is passing even MORE immigration legislation that we have no intention of enforcing. putting the word "comprehensive" in front of it won't matter. nothing really will.
my starting point would be a non-negotiable wall and a 3 year moratorium on ALL immigration. then every DACA beaner gets processed one at a time. so much as a fucking parking ticket gets them kicked out for life. those allowed get "legalized" with a 12 year waiting period before they can vote.
let's start there and see where it takes us.
my starting point would be a non-negotiable wall and a 3 year moratorium on ALL immigration. then every DACA beaner gets processed one at a time.so much as a fucking parking ticket gets them kicked out for life. those allowed get "legalized" with a 12 year waiting period before they can vote.
Forget all that. Require them to be gainfully employed, paying taxes and, particularly, paying (nonredeemable) into Social Security. Just that, nothing else, impose a 5 year process to citizenship. Or 10 years, I don't care, as long as they're employed and paying taxes & SS, and they do the paperwork every year.
They get to stay, social security doesn't collapse, conservative businessmen get cheap labor, everyone's happy.
i still want the wall and the criminals kicked out for life.
If you make it easy for the "good" ones to get in (meaning the people who keep a job and pay our SS), then you don't need "the wall" because you won't have people-smugglers.
If they stop working or fund themselves by gang activities, or petty crimes, round them up and ship them out. After whatever punishment the courts dole out. My way is a much more traditional "conservative" plan than all this big government big brother stuff. Easy to track, easy to enforce - hand them an ID card, check it against SS payments, and if they're putting in then they're golden. Lapse, and you're out.
nope. i still want a wall.
a big, glorious, beautiful wall. with cameras on gun turrets. manned remotely like we do with drones. let a guy mow down illegals in air conditioned comfort from the comfort of his recliner.
Hey, you know that a lot of our border towns are as much Mexico as USA, in all but jurisdiction. Mexican gangs, cartels, practically entire communities already transplanted across the border. And growing.
After this wall is built you're going to need some way to keep them from spreading. Another wall, say 40 or 50 miles further North?
Come to think of it, if we're going to make Mexico pay for the wall in the end, doesn't it make more sense to make them build it? On THEIR side of the border so it doesn't mess with our ranches and landscape. I've got an idea how to do that, but I think I'll keep that to myself for now.
Let's see scientific proof of what actually happens when you build a wall...
_________________________________________
When men in olive coveralls began to install 18-foot-high corrugated metal fencing on the international border between El Paso and Ciudad Juarez in 2008, Carlos Marentes joined protesters who complained that building the barrier was like cutting off circulation to America's own limb.
It was no surprise to him when the city on the Mexican side of the border fence began to wither and die. As Juarez descended into years of drug-fueled violence, El Paso thrived, ranking among the safest cities in the U.S.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-trump-wall-el-paso-20170125-story.html
This is why rrb and the President wants a wall. He wants to make America White Again!
The White House is assertively working to make America white again, and Democrats are too afraid to speak that truth. The aggressive pace of deportations of immigrants of color, the elimination of the DACA program protecting immigrant children and the proposals propounded by the anti-immigration voices in the administration will all have the undeniable effect of slowing the rapid racial diversification of the United States population. Despite this sweeping attempt at racial social engineering, few voices in progressive and Democratic circles are responding with the kinds of outrage that one would expect.
The pro-white preferences of Donald Trump and his administration, especially when it comes to immigration, are legion. From the day he opened his presidential campaign in 2015 by demonizing Mexicans to the enthusiasm generated by the calls for building a wall along the Mexican border to aggressively ramping up deportations of immigrants of color to eliminating DACA to vulgarly denigrating African nations and Haiti, this administration has been quite clear about its preference for white people.
It should be no surprise, then, that the immigration policies championed by the White House would all have the effect of reducing the number of people of color coming into the country. A recent study by The Washington Post found that the administration’s proposals to curtail legal immigration by limiting family reunification would slightly delay the date when whites become a minority. “By greatly slashing the number of Hispanic and black African immigrants entering America, this proposal would reshape the future United States,” the economist Michael Clemens said.
“Decades ahead,” he added, “many fewer of us would be nonwhite or have nonwhite people in our families.”
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The administration’s focus is not random. Nor is it illogical, if one’s goal is to maximize the influence of white people. Since the passage of the 1965 Immigration and Naturalization Act, the chromatic composition of the country’s population has undergone a fundamental transformation. People of color used to make up 12 percent of the United States population in 1965, and that percentage has more than tripled over the past several decades to the point where nonwhite people are nearly 39 percent of the residents of the United States (it is no accident that the country’s first African-American president was elected when he was elected). Mr. Trump’s team understands that the specific laws it seeks to eliminate have played a significant role in that demographic revolution.
Steve Phillips, the founder of Democracy in Color and a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, is the author of “Brown Is the New White: How the Demographic Revolution Has Created a New American Majority.”
Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook and Twitter (@NYTopinion), and sign up for the Opinion Today newsletter.
This is why the racist rodent bastard wants America to be White Again.
nope. i still want a wall.
big, glorious, beautiful wall. with cameras on gun turrets. manned remotely like we do with drones. let a guy mow down illegals in air conditioned comfort from the comfort of his recliner.
Feel better alky?
I'm a very happy, married man to a beautiful, none pig chubby cheeks like yours.
I'm clean and sober. Not addicted to opioid drugs. And not a stupid man who inherited everything he has.
Moo moo.
Blogger Roger Amick said...
This is why the racist rodent bastard wants America to be White Again.
i posted that just for you alky. thanks for taking the bait just as i knew you would.
HB, caught in Rat Trap.
Alky, good for you, your now on day 17 of being opium detoxed, day 1234 of alcohol free, still smoking pot?
What opium head alky really said, is the illegals are people of color. Nothing special, more on Welfare then not.
I haven't smoked weed for??? 15 years or so.
Jimmy, it wasn't a trap. It was what you truly believe. You can't deny your let them rot as a warning. You really are a white supremacist. Nor are you a "Good person "
Your hate filled, racist rant in third grade English, are an embarrassment to the blog, and rational discussions .
The aggressive pace of deportations of immigrants of color, the elimination of the DACA program ... the undeniable effect of slowing the rapid racial diversification of the United States population
Roger what is this? There may be some truth in the depiction of Trump's attitudes and his goals, but this is ridiculous.
121 million non-white people living in the USA, and the USA arrested 111,000 suspected illegal immigrants last year. If ALL of them were deported, that amounts to .01% "slowing the rapid racial diversification".
Also of note, the actual deportations in 2017 dropped 6% from 2016, and were lower than at any time during the Obama administration. Which, considering the big horse laugh from the rest of you when I mentioned this trend last year ... but I'll not be merciless on this point. Just note for future reference.
Roger sees everything through a racial filter because he's pretty much a racist himself.
He just doesn't want to admit it.
I have never been addicted to opioid drugs. I'm clean as a whistle. Unless you actually believe that Profax and Lyrica are addictive. Profax is the anti-rejection medication. Lyrica helps pain management . Vitamin D,C, and others are just life as age takes it's toll on the body. Come back in ten years and if you haven't committed suicide because the United States elects a Beaner President, let's guess the list of medications and etc.
When fewer people are illegally crossing of course deportations are going to go down.
and as I posted above El Paso is proof positive that building a wall works
wp, I didn't fact check the post.
But note, that illegal immigration dropped dramatically under the Obama administration, in comparison to the Bush administration's efforts .
I find it amusing that the Menstra mind declared me a racist. But never, ever condemns beaners etc.
It was an AR-15. It is the same weapon used at Sandy Hook, Vegas, Texas church, Orlando, Parkland, Aurora and San Bernardino.
Why is this weapon easily available?
NRA contributions to the Trump election year 2016. $21,000,000
wp, I would ban all military style rifles. Semi-automatic, large capacity, weapons should be restricted like machine guns. They are only allowed in gun shows, and shall always be locked in approved armoured storage businesses approved by the Bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms.
"NRA contributions to the Trump election year 2016. $21,000,000"
Union contributions in 2016 $ 1.7 billion, mostly to Democrats and their causes.
Semi-auto weapons are not "military style" except cosmetically. What you accomplish by restricting them is diminished self-defense capability.
I'd probably agree with you about high capacity magazines, except that I don't see that as practicably achievable. You could ban their sale from legal vendors, but there is and will be an adequate supply. It also won't be difficult to modify one to extend the capacity - it's just a spring and guide mechanism after all. We need to concentrate on measures that could work, not superficial refinements of what style of weapons are allowed to be sold.
I find it amusing that the Menstra mind declared me a racist. But never, ever condemns beaners etc.
Why would I condemn beaners, they're some of my best friends. ☺
wp, I would ban all military style rifles. Semi-automatic, large capacity, weapons should be restricted like machine guns
Congratulations you banned every modern firearm created in the last 40 years.
No bill involving a socialist Big Government wall (with its ever-increasing taxpayer-funded price tag) is acceptable to any real conservative. This should be the basic understanding for any negotiations towards any Constitutionally-minded solution.
After that is established, other provisions such as Nuremberg-style trials for the fat, anti-Constitutional criminal ICE Gestapo scum are up for debate.
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