Well it turns out that this Australian diplomat (who provided the Feds with details of the so called conversation) was a gentleman by the name of Alexander Downer. Downer, whom ironically enough is a Clinton crony as well, having donated approximately $25 million dollars to the Clintons and their foundation.
It sort of begs the question. Was Papadopoulos charged with misleading statements because of a disagreement with the Clinton donor regarding what was said that night? Did the FBI (and Mueller) simply take the word of the Diplomat over the word of Papadopoulos?
Bottom Line: The investigation was prompted by a tip from a high stakes Clinton donor, and then fueled by research that was paid for by the Clinton campaign itself. Is there anything real left to show that this investigation is on the up and up?
Oh, and by the way: Nobody in the FBI thought it relevant to inform Congress or anyone else while testifying or providing documentation... that the ultimate source who triggered the investigation was a Clinton crony to the tune of $25 million.
70 comments:
And California can kiss our collective asses...
Trump met with a Russian nuclear submarine captain
messed up the link
Since in the real world it wasn't what instigated the investigation, there's no reason for the FBI to inform Congress to that effect.
WP...
The FBI stated that the Papadopoulos drunken night was what prompted the investigation?
If it wasn't the Papadopoulos drunken night or the Steele Dossier...
Please tell us what the fuck it was that prompted this two year long fiasco?
If this two year fiasco investigation, why did Trump perhaps tamper with witnesses?
WASHINGTON — The special counsel in the Russia investigation has learned of two conversations in recent months in which President Trump asked key witnesses about matters they discussed with investigators, according to three people familiar with the encounters.
In one episode, the president told an aide that the White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, should issue a statement denying a New York Times article in January. The article said Mr. McGahn told investigators that the president once asked him to fire the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III. Mr. McGahn never released a statement and later had to remind the president that he had indeed asked Mr. McGahn to see that Mr. Mueller was dismissed, the people said.
In the other episode, Mr. Trump asked his former chief of staff, Reince Priebus, how his interview had gone with the special counsel’s investigators and whether they had been “nice,” according to two people familiar with the discussion.
The episodes demonstrate that even as the special counsel investigation appears to be intensifying, the president has ignored his lawyers’ advice to avoid doing anything publicly or privately that could create the appearance of interfering with it.
The White House did not respond to several requests for comment. Mr. Priebus and Mr. McGahn declined to comment through their lawyer, William A. Burck.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/politics/trump-witnesses-special-counsel-priebus-mcgahn.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
Nest will be the fake news claims.
Last time I checked, Roger...
Robert Mueller is still running his investigation and from all indications everyone at the White House has been more than cooperative.
It's one thing to say you can charge a President with "obstruction" for firing an FBI director or ultimately being responsible for firing a Special Counsel... a dubious claim at best, since it's been done in the past by other Presidents.
But it's quite another to suggest you could charge someone for being talked out of firing Special Counsel.
It would be like charging someone with assault because he considered beating someone up, before being talked out if by his buddies.
What started the investigation? A year and a couple of months ago, the US intelligence community confirmed Russian interference in the election and accused Putin of personally ordering it. The Special Investigation was instigated to investigate those allegations and potential involvement of Trump officials.
from the alky's anonymously sourced haberman fable:
"It can get at the issue of consciousness of guilt in an obstruction case because if you didn’t do anything wrong, why are you doing that?”
ok, so now we're down to prosecuting thought crimes.
splendid. so the left really IS using orwell's '1984' as an instruction manual. thought so.
wphamilton said...
What started the investigation?
a crock of shit cooked up by team clinton to explain away the most embarrassing loss of the most assuredly guaranteed election victory of the modern era.
I's just a straw man argument RRB, where CH says "so many people want to argue" that a drunken boast in a bar started it. He sets up a silly claim made by "so many people" and argues against it.
In fact, CH is the only person to argue that, that I have read. Pure strawman.
Well, CH and the New York Times.
How the Russia Inquiry Began: A Campaign Aide, Drinks and Talk of Political Dirt
And they also point to intelligence from British and Dutch intelligence services, the investigation of Page, and previous contacts involving Papadopoulos. It's a headline.
CH is, and has been, presenting it as entendre raison of the whole thing, " the ultimate source" that the investigation was the response to. It was one piece of data - taking a hyberbolic headline, and "the improbable match" to extremes. The whole argument is silly.
But it all began with this:
The hacking and the revelation that a member of the Trump campaign may have had inside information about it were driving factors that led the F.B.I. to open an investigation in July 2016 into Russia’s attempts to disrupt the election and whether any of President Trump’s associates conspired.
It's not silly or a straw man. It's a fact.
To state the facts requires them to be in their entirety.
The hacking and the revelation that a member of the Trump campaign may have had inside information about it were driving factors that led the F.B.I. to open an investigation in July 2016 into Russia’s attempts to disrupt the election and whether any of President Trump’s associates conspired with the Russian government.
It's not a "Witch Hunt". It's a fact.
The drunken meeting was held in May. Then it led the F.B.I. to open an investigation in July 2016 into Russia’s attempts to disrupt the election and whether any of President Trump’s associates conspired with the Russian government.
The dossier was released to the FBI in July also. But the evidence presented by the FBI, stated that the investigation in July 2016 into Russia’s attempts to disrupt the election and whether any of President Trump’s associates conspired with the Russian government was initiated by the drunken meeting.
"It's not silly or a straw man. It's a fact."
Fact.
Apparently if you don't say Russia, Russia, Russia enough you're not giving the facts in its entirety according to Roger.
Obsession is a terrible thing.
There is new information about the drunken meeting. From The Hill.
The Australian diplomat whose tip in 2016 prompted the Russia-Trump investigation previously arranged one of the largest foreign donations to Bill and Hillary Clinton’s charitable efforts, documents show.
Former Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer’s role in securing $25 million in aid from his country to help the Clinton Foundation fight AIDS is chronicled in decade-old government memos archived on the Australian foreign ministry’s website.
Downer and former President Clinton jointly signed a Memorandum of Understanding in February 2006 that spread out the grant money over four years for a project to provide screening and drug treatment to AIDS patients in Asia.
http://thehill.com/376858-australian-diplomat-whose-tip-prompted-fbis-russia-probe-has-tie-to-clintons
The money was initially allocated to the Clinton Foundation but later was routed through an affiliate of the charity known as the Clinton Health Access Initiative (CHAI), officials said. Australia was one of four foreign governments to donate more than $25 million to CHAI, records show.
The Australian diplomat whose tip in 2016 prompted the Russia-Trump investigation previously arranged one of the largest foreign donations to Bill and Hillary Clinton’s charitable efforts, documents show.
Former Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer’s role in securing $25 million in aid from his country to help the Clinton Foundation fight AIDS is chronicled in decade-old government memos archived on the Australian foreign ministry’s website.
The money was initially allocated to the Clinton Foundation but later was routed through an affiliate of the charity known as the Clinton Health Access Initiative (CHAI), officials said. Australia was one of four foreign governments to donate more than $25 million to CHAI, records show.
In the years that followed, the project won praise for helping thousands of HIV-infected patients in Papua New Guinea, Vietnam, China and Indonesia, but also garnered criticism from auditors about “management weaknesses” and inadequate budget oversight, the memos show.
Downer, now Australia’s ambassador to London, provided the account of a conversation with Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos at a London bar in 2016 that became the official reason the FBI opened the Russia counterintelligence probe.
But lawmakers say the FBI didn’t tell Congress about Downer’s prior connection to the Clinton Foundation. Republicans say they are concerned the new information means nearly all of the early evidence the FBI used to justify its election-year probe of Trump came from sources supportive of the Clintons, including the controversial Steele dossier.
“The Clintons’ tentacles go everywhere. So, that’s why it’s important,” said Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) chairman of a House Oversight and Government Reform subcommittee that has been taking an increasingly visible role defending the Trump administration in the Russia probe. “We continue to get new information every week it seems that sort of underscores the fact that the FBI hasn’t been square with us.”
Spokesman for the FBI and Russia special counsel Robert Mueller declined comment.
The Australian Foreign Ministry says the Clinton grant was handled like all its other $2 billion annual foreign aid awards, and it ultimately helped thousands in Asia gain access to antiretroviral AIDS medications.
-----
This has been grabbed by the Republicans who really don't like the investigation.
Other than speculation, the usual suspect CH for example, will claim that the drunken diplomat was motivated by the domain by the Clinton Foundation. And that this makes the entire investigation was motivated by the Clinton campaign and thereof invalid, despite the President himself said that the Russians attempted to intervene in the 2016 election.
The daily revelations about more contacts between the Russians and the Trump campaign make that assumption invalid.
Grow up CS.
No conflict of interest there right Roger?
will claim that the drunken diplomat was motivated by the domain by the Clinton Foundation. And that this makes the entire investigation was motivated by the Clinton campaign and thereof invalid,
what???
Grow up CS.
Roger, you were the one that added "with the Russian government".
That phrase wasn't in the original New York Times story.
Maybe you should be the one to grow up.
In your opinion..
Other than speculation, the usual suspect CH for example, will claim that the drunken diplomat was motivated by the domain by the Clinton Foundation. And that this makes the entire investigation was motivated by the Clinton campaign and thereof invalid, despite the President himself said that the Russians attempted to intervene in the 2016 election.
The daily revelations about more contacts between the Russians and the Trump campaign make that assumption invalid.
You didn't provide the link to you comments, therefore I was legitimate in adding ¥with the Russian government. was a valid addition.
Yes, I did. See above.
My recovery has been interesting. No longer crippled in any way.
Except for you inability to follow a thread.
Yes I did.
As you didn't provide the link.
So what?
You plagiarism gave me the opportunity to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So help me God.
Stupid is as stupid does. See the 6:45 AM post which is just above the quote.
Learn to follow a thread idiot.
Are repeatedly posts shouting alky alky alky or pedophilia following a thread?
CH sometimes takes a day or two between threads. So we all post off topic.
I don't read every single post after I was away from the blog. You could have provided the link again.
CS it's your fault, Roger can't follow a thread
I think that people are getting too fixated on a trigger, the final impetus, and I get the feeling that they want to boil everything down to one meeting, some drunken bragging, and keystone cop Feds running with it.
The FBI did not just get a cable from the Australians, suddenly say "OMG investigate Trump" and spin up everything on that basis. Get real, that's a plot prop in poorly written fiction. It was important information, the first decent connection between Trump and the Russian interference and no doubt it triggered some action. The guy was practically confessing, and at the very least proves that a motive exists and coordination sought by at least one highly placed Trump campaign official. But really folks, that didn't happen in a vacuum. It's just a data point that in isolation would be filed and forgotten, but within all of the other data triggered action. So stop trying to isolate it.
I don't read every single post after I was away from the blog.
Well, Roger since you decide to butt into a conversion you weren't originally part of it may behoove you to read up on it a little bit.
CS it's your fault, Roger can't follow a thread
No kidding.
The FBI did not just get a cable from the Australians, suddenly say "OMG investigate Trump" and spin up everything on that basis.
Actually, it was something very much like that. This diplomate did notify the FBI of the meeting.
Which in itself was rather unusual. (SOP would have been to file a contact report with his own government.)
The hacking and the revelation that a member of the Trump campaign may have had inside information about it were driving factors that led the F.B.I. to open an investigation in July 2016 into Russia’s attempts to disrupt the election and whether any of President Trump’s associates conspired.
Within the whole constellation of intelligence data indicating Russia's attempts. I think that the article's author assumes that the reader isn't so dumb to take it to extremes and disregarding the hacking, Russia's attempts to disrupt, current investigations that tied into it, and numerous suspicious contacts with the Russians. Which is the silly straw man argument that I see here.
This diplomate did notify the FBI of the meeting.
Yes of course. That was your takeaway from what I wrote???
You don't find it unusual for a diplomate to directly contact the intelligence agency of a foreign government instead of going through his own government?
Trump upset with Sanders over Stormy Daniels response
CNN
By Jim Acosta and Veronica Stracqualursi, CNN
1 hr ago
Washington (CNN) -- President Donald Trump is upset with White House press secretary Sarah Sanders over her responses Wednesday regarding his alleged affair with porn star Stormy Daniels, a source close to the White House tells CNN.
Daniels, whose legal name is Stephanie Clifford, filed suit against Trump this week alleging he hadn't signed a nondisclosure agreement that would have prevented her from discussing their alleged sexual affair.
On Wednesday, Sanders told reporters that the arbitration was won "in the President's favor." The statement is an admission that the nondisclosure agreement exists, and that it directly involves the President. It is the first time the White House has admitted the President was involved in any way with Daniels.
"POTUS is very unhappy," the source said. "Sarah gave the Stormy Daniels storyline steroids yesterday."
This week's developments are the latest installment in a continuing controversy for the White House involving Daniels, and a distraction from Trump's attempted rollout of tariffs on steel and aluminum imports.
Just weeks before the 2016 election,Trump's legal counsel Michael Cohen paid Daniels $130,000 of his own money, which he admitted to in February. Cohen has said the President "vehemently denies" any sexual encounter between the two.
__________________
Vehemently lies, IOW. He might as well admit what a craven skirt chaser and "grabber" he is.
A Growing Health Care Gap Between Red and Blue
Ron Brownstein: “The most immediate effect of the recent steps taken by Donald Trump and congressional Republicans to unravel the Affordable Care Act will be to create an even deeper gulf between red and blue states in the availability and quality of health insurance. An array of blue states are exploring ways not only to blunt Trump’s moves, but also to reach beyond the ACA with new mechanisms to expand coverage. Simultaneously, many red states are leaning into the rollback—both by seeking to limit access to Medicaid, and by embracing Trump’s efforts to deregulate insurance markets in ways that will restore the pre-ACA separation between the healthy and sick…
“That means health insurers are likely to announce major premium increases during the next ACA open-enrollment period—just weeks before the midterms. In a January national Kaiser poll, three-fifths of Americans said they would blame Trump and the GOP for any further ACA problems. By creating the conditions for big premium hikes this fall, Republicans in Washington and the states appear determined to test that proposition."
Some things just don't same to change.
Looks like the "pastor" is back with his idiotic off-topic spamming. What a fucking asshole
Well it's always fun to point out his shit.
ROFLMFAO !!!
James Boswell of Normal, Illinois is a pedophile.
Who "pastor" jimmy supports through Obama:
In spite of Farrakhan’s long history as a racist, bigot and anti-Semite, Obama thought favorably enough of him to join Farrakhan’s 1995 march on Washington, D.C. Reportedly, Obama joined Reverends Jeremiah Wright and Al Sharpton in organizing the march.
Farrakhan’s bona fides as a purveyor of hate are well-documented. He called Jews “bloodsuckers,” Judaism a “gutter religion” and referred to Adolf Hitler as a “great man.” Farrakhan said, “The God who taught me calls the white man the skunk of the planet earth.”
Farrakhan promoted the anti-Semitic conspiracy theory that “the AIDS epidemic is a result of doctors, especially Jewish ones, who inject the AIDS virus into blacks.” According to Farrakhan, blacks are prevented from progressing in the arts, sports, academia and politics because of Jews.
It's always AMUSING to see how ineffective their comments are.
"spamming"
"pedophile"
YAWN
lol I have never "supported" Farrakhan.
YAWN.
WP...
Both the Nunes memo and the Schiff memo state that Peter Strzok opened the initial FBI investigation in July 2016 into possible collusion after the reports from the Australian Diplomat stated that Papadopoulos suggested he had information about Clinton emails. Both memos suggest that the Dossier was introduced a couple months later and led to an escalation of the investigation, including the FICA warrant on Page.
While you suggest that "Coldheart" is the only person in the world who is claiming this, it would be closer to the truth to state that you are the last person left who still believes there was some other undisclosed (even to congressional inquiries) information that prompted the investigation.
Both the Democrats and the Republicans in Congress with security clearance to view this information state the same thing. There is no disagreement here (other than yours).
Today's polls....pay special attention to the Rasmussen #'s.....
2018 Generic Congressional Vote Reuters/Ipsos Democrats 38, Republicans 31 Democrats +7
2018 Generic Congressional Vote Rasmussen Reports Democrats 46, Republicans 40 Democrats +6
President Trump Job Approval Reuters/Ipsos Approve 40, Disapprove 54 Disapprove +14
President Trump Job Approval Rasmussen Reports Approve 45, Disapprove 54 Disapprove +9
But our sycophants will slurp away like nothing is wrong.....
"Blogger Commonsense said...
You don't find it unusual for a diplomate (sic) to directly contact the intelligence agency of a foreign government instead of going through his own government?"
It is literally the diplomat's job description to talk with foreign governments "instead of going through his own". Intelligence agents, yeah probably pretty common. Not that it's important either way. Are you reading some kind of conspiracy into that?
Your takeaway SHOULD have been " ... suddenly say "OMG investigate Trump" and spin up everything on that basis", which is the silly argument that you folks keep presenting.
Wp thinks he's entitled to his own facts because he's able to eloquently express them.
Either that, or he's just being argumentative for it's own sake.
ch struggles with ... "after the reports from the Australian Diplomat stated that Papadopoulos suggested he had information"
And in your mind, anything happening "after the reports" must have been due to them alone. The ultimate trigger, the thing that started it all. If that's not your point, what point did you think you were making with that?
Why are you and CS pointing out the obvious, already assumed by everyone else involved that everyone is aware of them? Obvious facts that I've already written about? Not following the meaning?
Both the Nunes memo and the Schiff memo state that Peter Strzok opened the initial FBI investigation in July 2016
Does it really matter what begat the investigation? It started and there was much more data presented than we will ever know....at this point, it is nothing but sour grapes on CH's part to be correct at something that means absolutely nothing since the toothpaste is out of the tube.....The application is still classified so you claiming there is nothing else is pure fiction....and not provable....
OK MyBalls, to what do you refer to as my "own facts", that I've expressed here? Quote it.
You don't find it unusual for a diplomate (sic) to directly
Menstral thinks it is unusual for anyone to actually do their job...It is good to know he is now an expert on diplomatic protocols knowing he is an expert in GW, statistics and cultism.....
"Commie said ... Does it really matter what begat the investigation? "
No, it doesn't. But CH, I guess echoing some Trump camp talking point, holds forth "so many people want to argue" that the drunken meeting was the cause of it all and then hounds that position. It's an argument that he attributes to the media, investigators and "everyone else" just so he can criticize it. Classic straw-man.
CH, CS and MyBalls have all missed, or deliberately disregard, the undisputed facts that the intelligence community's findings, ongoing investigations, and intelligence data all contributed to instigating this investigation.
"deliberately disregard,"
I prefer brainwashed to thinking it is important.....Oh well, fire away CH....it is an argument for arguments sake and will not cause trumps travails to go away.....that will only occurs when mueller is done and exonerates all involved.....not likely,
It is literally the diplomat's job description to talk with foreign governments "instead of going through his own". Intelligence agents, yeah probably pretty common.
So that means you have have no problem with say Carter Page making contact with persons connected to Russian intelligence?
Just wondering.
CH, CS and MyBalls have all missed, or deliberately disregard, the undisputed facts that the intelligence community's findings, ongoing investigations, and intelligence data all contributed to instigating this investigation.
What WP is denying is that there was no suspicion of any connection to the Trump campaign until the Australian Diplomat reported the Papadopoulos meeting to the FBI and the Steele dossier was brought to the FBI's attention.
Both sources that are coincidentally connected to the Clintons.
So that means you have have no problem with say Carter Page making contact with persons connected to Russian intelligence?
Page was a diplomat? Wow, who knew.
What WP is denying is that there was no suspicion of any connection to the Trump campaign until the Australian Diplomat reported the Papadopoulos meeting
Yeah, I'm going to "deny" false statements like that. Page, among others, had connections which were most definitely known - not suspected, but known - to US Intelligence.
Yeah WP, it's call the invincible ignorance fallacy.
And you're simply full of it today.
Page was a diplomat? Wow, who knew.
According to your fevered interpretation, he was.
My fevered interpretation? How else am I to interpret your rhetorical question equating Page talking to Russian intelligence with diplomats talking to intelligence?
This was YOUR question, CS: "So that means you have have no problem with say Carter Page making contact with persons connected to Russian intelligence? "
You think that because I said that diplomats talk to foreign governments, directly, as is their job, that I'd be hypocritical to hold it against Page. Therefore you think he was a diplomat or in a position equivalent to a diplomat. The real quandary is why I'm even responding to such frankly stupid questions.
"Yeah WP, it's call the invincible ignorance fallacy. "
And now you insist that Page's contacts with Russian intelligence were unknown prior to 2016. Flynn. Manafort. Talk about your invincible ignorance.
Your really bending over backwards to not answer that question.
Which means you already did.
Really, CS, you want that spelled out? OK then, like any other patriotic American with more than half a wit, yes I have a problem with Page having contacted Russian Intelligence agents.
hey wp,
assuming the whole carter page thing is not bullshit (which i think it is btw) why hasn't page been indicted?
You'd have to ask the investigators why they haven't indicted Page, or why they haven't indicted anyone else. We mostly get information about what they DO do, and not much about what they DON'T do, so you're asking me to speculate.
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