"person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof"
Let's just say that there have been numerous arguments in the past regarding this particular amendment, and particularly what the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" actually means.
United States v. Wong Kim Ark suggested than any child born of resident aliens is a citizen. It stopped short, however, of providing blanket citizen status for anyone born in the United States. There have been several instances where the Courts have ruled in favor of children born of illegal aliens being provided many of the rights and privileges of citizenship (such as school funding, census, etc). Some have argued that these court decisions have settled the issue.
Ultimately, however, Congress did write naturalization laws that reaffirmed the language of the fourteen amendment, without doing much to clarify. So there can be some disagreement as to whether court decisions are interpreting the law, the constitutional amendment, or a combination of both.There is therefor much debate as to whether or not Congress would be able to constitutionally decide to legislate a more specific interpretation of their naturalization laws.
To be clear, I do not believe that the President has authority to use an executive action to clarify and amend a law, and most certainly the President does not have the authority to write an executive action that would clarify a Constitutional amendment. He probably has the authority to write a executive action that provides a guidance as to how to enforce these laws, but that guidance would need to be within the confines of existing law, and couldn't (IMHO) simply do a full one eighty on how we are currently enforcing these laws. The exception would be, of course, if that executive guidance were cancelling out another executive guidance that was felt to be outside of the confines of existing law.
I believe that if the President attempted to do so, that he would lose that court case all the way up to the USSC, based on the simple concept of separation of powers and the limits to Presidential authority.
Meanwhile... I certainly have no doubt that new naturalization laws (written by Congress) that undercut the idea of blanket birthright citizen would bring immediate legal challenges, and I have absolutely zero doubt that there would be lower court decisions that would rule those laws are in violation of the 14th Amendment. But the only question here would be how the new USSC would view such an argument.
To the degree that the Constitution is fairly straight forward, I would pretty much always believe that a conservative court would demand that all laws follow that portion of the Constitution. If you want to ban free speech (first amendment) or you want to ban all firearms (second amendment) then you better amend those amendments through a constitutional procedure. If you attempt to write laws that are in clear violation, they will be struck down as such.
But the question lies in where the constitution (or an amendment) is somewhat vague and open to interpretation. Would conservative Justices provide more leeway for Congress to make a declaration as to determine that interpretation, or would those same Justices believe that it's the sole place of the courts to resolve such questions? Would it be conservative to "defer" to Congress and not take it upon themselves to "legislate from the bench" or would it be conservative to take constitutional issues out of the jurisdiction of the legislation and make that determination at the Judicial level.
Personally, when the constitution is not "clear" about something I would offer that a piece of legislation that appears to bear a reasonable interpretation of the meaning in question should be considered constitutional. In those cases, I would think that we would like the Courts to defer to the legislative branch rather than supersede Congress on a matter of opinion.
In other words, I believe that the Court's job isn't to prevent our Congress from interpretation of constitutional principles, but rather to prevent Congress from blatantly "changing" the meaning of constitutional principles.
To the degree that some people believe that the Constitution should be "living" or "changing" with the times, those interpretations should "always" be left up to our legislative branch. Large legal and social changes in society should be determined by the branch that is actually elected by those people who make up society, rather than by Judges who are not accountable. To the degree that the courts have a say, would be to reign in changes that run counter to Constitutional issues or legal precedents. Never, should it be on the courts to be the ones that "move" society in a new direction, especially if that direction competes and counters with Congressional laws written by elected legislators, or with other sorts of referendums and state amendments.
So it's unclear exactly what the Roberts court would do with this if Congress wrote a law clarifying birth right citizenship. My gut tells me that they would look strongly at the legal precedent (that favors the idea of birth right citizenship) and argue that the 14th Amendment provides birth right citizenship, but I wouldn't be shocked (or upset) if they choose to let Congress settle the question.
50 comments:
The prevailing interpretation of "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" only excludes ambassadors of foreign governments and other designated diplomats.
It includes all other foreign nationals including those on tourists visas and people who enter the country in violation of the laws.
I believe that is the intreptation the Supreme Court will go with unless they determine Congress has the power to clarify what "subject to the jurisdiction" means.
ann coulter (of all people) actually wrote a very well informed column on this topic:
As the court has explained again and again and again:
"(N)o one can fail to be impressed with the one pervading purpose found in (the 13th, 14th and 15th) amendments, lying at the foundation of each, and without which none of them would have been even suggested; we mean the freedom of the slave race, the security and firm establishment of that freedom, and the protection of the newly made freeman and citizen from the oppressions of those who had formerly exercised unlimited dominion over him."
That's why the amendment refers to people who are "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States "and of the state wherein they reside." For generations, African-Americans were domiciled in this country. The only reason they weren't citizens was because of slavery, which the country had just fought a civil war to end.
The 14th Amendment fixed that.
The amendment didn't even make Indians citizens. Why? Because it was about freed slaves. Sixteen years after the 14th Amendment was ratified, the Supreme Court held that an American Indian, John Elk, was not a citizen, despite having been born here.
Instead, Congress had to pass a separate law making Indians citizens, which it did, more than half a century after the adoption of the 14th Amendment. (It's easy to miss -- the law is titled: "THE INDIAN CITIZENSHIP ACT OF 1924.") Why would such a law be necessary if simply being born in the U.S. was enough to confer citizenship?
Even today, the children of diplomats and foreign ministers are not granted citizenship on the basis of being born here.
President Trump, unlike his critics, honors black history by recognizing that the whole purpose of the Civil War amendments was to guarantee the rights of freed slaves.
But the left has always been bored with black people. If they start gassing on about "civil rights," you can be sure it will be about transgenders, the abortion ladies or illegal aliens. Liberals can never seem to remember the people whose ancestors were brought here as slaves, i.e., the only reason we even have civil rights laws.
Still, it requires breathtaking audacity to use the Civil War amendments to bring in cheap foreign labor, which drives down the wages of African-Americans -- the very people the amendments were written to protect!
Whether the children born to legal immigrants are citizens is controversial enough. But at least there's a Supreme Court decision claiming that they are -- U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark. That's "birthright citizenship."
It's something else entirely to claim that an illegal alien, subject to deportation, can drop a baby and suddenly claim to be the parent of a "citizen."
This crackpot notion was concocted by liberal zealot Justice William Brennan and slipped into a footnote as dicta in a 1982 case. "Dicta" means it was not the ruling of the court, just a random aside, with zero legal significance.
Left-wing activists seized on Brennan's aside and browbeat everyone into believing that anchor babies are part of our great constitutional heritage, emerging straight from the pen of James Madison.
No Supreme Court has ever held that children born to illegal aliens are citizens. No Congress has deliberated and decided to grant that right. It's a made-up right, grounded only in the smoke and mirrors around Justice Brennan's 1982 footnote.
Obviously, it would be better if Congress passed a law clearly stating that children born to illegals are not citizens. (Trump won't be president forever!) But until that happens, the president of the United States is not required to continue a ridiculous practice that has absolutely no basis in law.
It's often said that journalism is the first draft of history. As we now see, fake news is the first draft of fake history.
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2018-10-31.html#read_more
Amendment and Citizenship is a murky Constitutional question...
It is murky only to trump bigots and assholes like you CH......I believe the 14th was enacted right after the civil war and has never been a problem to ANYONE until the asshole in chief said he can change the constitution with an executive order....Me thinks this will die a slow death and you and your ilk will go down with trump's white nationalism....Next on the agenda good nazi's and david duke running DC......
Nice racist stump speech from Oprah talking about blacks who were lynched generations ago.
The angry, violent racist left should not be rewarded.
Black voter approval for trump has hit 40%. Blexit is real.
Senate Leader Harry Ried said.
"I introduced a bill to remove birthright citizenship".
Denise said "bigots and asshole".."white nationalism".
Black voter JOB APPROVAL approval for trump has hit 40%. in RASSMUSSEN !!! Beloit is real.
Now I understand why that poll is always outside the rest of the approval polls by a long shot....I wonder if that will translate to votes????? Even Kanye has backed away from trump and the message.....Anyone care that trump admitted he tries to tell the truth???? TRIES!!!!! And you keep slurping...
Oh Harry.
"Harry M. Reid appeared impassioned — even upset, at times — when he took the Senate floor in 1993 and declared “no sane country” would grant birthright citizenship to children born on its soil to parents who lack legal status.
The then-Nevada senator had recently introduced the Immigration Stabilization Act of 1993, which challenged the clause in the 14th Amendment that grants automatic citizenship to any child born within U.S. borders.
“If making it easy to be an illegal alien isn’t enough, how about offering a reward to be an illegal immigrant. No sane country would do that, right?” Reid, a Democrat, asked his peers on Sept. 20, 1993. “Guess again. If you break our laws by entering this country without permission and give birth to a child, we reward that child with U.S. citizenship and guarantee a full access to all public and social services this society provides — and that’s a lot of services.”
Forgot to add fucking assholes douche bag......Your bigotry is endemic in your party.....your the Duke supporter which qualifies you as a white nationalist jag off.
Denny
Are you attempting to be three times as dumb as usual to make up for a missing James, and apparently a critically ill Roger?
"Harry M. Reid appeared impassioned
SO FUCKING WHAT!!!!! He ain't in the senate is he???? Such a douche....And what was the result.....He said it once....LOLOLOL
The rest of the story, again you and trump only provide what you wanted to hear...Harry said he made a mistake, something neither you or the fucking asshole in the WH have ever done....
“convinced us that the thing to do would be to close the borders between Mexico and the United States.”
As The Post’s Jacqueline Alemany noted, the debate over birthright citizenship has come up anew over the years, with Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R.-S.C.) bringing it up in 2010, Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) last year, and Trump himself bringing it up repeatedly himself.
On Wednesday, Reid, who served as the Senate majority leader from 2007 to 2015, reiterated in a statement that his 1993 comments were a “mistake."
“After I proposed that awful bill, my wife Landra immediately sat me down and said, ‘Harry, what are you doing, don’t you know that my father is an immigrant?’ She set me straight,” Reid wrote, adding that immigrants are the “lifeblood” of the United States.
"This president wants to destroy not build, to stoke hatred instead of unify. He can tweet whatever he wants while he sits around watching TV, but he is profoundly wrong.”
Denny
Are you attempting to be three times as dumb as usual
Is that the best you got Scotty the loser? You really need to get that aneurism under control since the quality of your posts,threads and logic have take a very dark David Duke turn.....so sad you think your shit don't stink.....LOLOLOLOL
Denise, he present a bill. That takes many steps.
As for history. Well, we try to teach you .
Like you learning you have voting right on the NOC stock.
NOC
Was $357
Now $275
Ugly
You are trying to figure out a way to disagree with your statement " do not believe that the President has authority to use an executive action to clarify and amend a law, and most certainly the President does not have the authority to write an executive action that would clarify a Constitutional amendment." Because it would in effect not only the right to vote, but it could in effect that slavery would be allowed by state governments.
Nonsense.
I do think the President and Ried agree. It will get to the US Supreme Court where the current US Constitution will be upheld.
Oh Claire just stop.
"
McCaskill: ‘I Support the President 100 Percent’ to Secure the Border."
Then why when you vote your 100% against it.
CHT any polling on the following:
California proposal to divide the state in thirds will appear on the November 2018 ballot
Democrats Still Ahead on Generic Ballot
November 1, 2018 at 1:44 pm
Poll finds that Democrats lead Republicans by nine points on the generic congressional ballot, 52% to 43% among likely voters nationwide.
Independent Voters May Be Key to a Wave
GOP pollster Glen Borger tweets:
It’s clear that, in most places, Republicans have solved our September enthusiasm problem. What’s not clear is whether we’ve solved our problem with Independent voters. And that will be the difference between winning and losing in close races.
Amy Walter: “The most recent polling suggests that Republicans haven’t ‘solved’ their independent voter problem. The Marist/PBS poll showed Democrats leading among independents on the generic ballot by 10 points. The NBC/Wall Street Journal poll shows Democrats leading the generic by 14 points. This is in line with the last three midterm wave elections (2006, 2010, and 2014), in which the winning party carried independents by 12 to 19 points.”
Trump’s Nationalism Is Breaking Point for Many Voters
New York Times:
“If the 2016 election hinged in large part on a rightward shift among working-class whites who deserted Democrats in the presidential race, Tuesday’s House election may turn on an equally significant and opposite force: a generational break with Republicanism among educated, wealthier whites — especially women — who generally like the party’s pro-business policies but recoil from strident, divisive language on race and gender.
“Rather than seeking to coax voters like these back into the Republican coalition, Mr. Trump appears to have all but written them off, spending the final days of the campaign delivering a scorching message about preoccupations like birthright citizenship and a migrant ‘invasion’ from Mexico that these voters see through as alarmist.”
________________
It ain't working, Donald. They're seeing through you.
IN PA,
College-educated white women now say they prefer Democrats to control Congress by 18 points, according to a survey by Marist College and NPR.
In moderate areas, the Republican coalition has long depended on upscale whites casting aside their more liberal views on issues like gun control and abortion to support G.O.P. economic policies. Mr. Trump’s national
0message does virtually nothing to accommodate those voters.
“I’m not hearing anything helpful at all,” said Gene DiGirolamo, a moderate Republican state legislator from Bucks County, outside Philadelphia, where Republicans are struggling to hold on to a House seat and hold back Democratic gains in state races.
In his area, Mr. DiGirolamo said, Mr. Trump’s support “among independents has slipped dramatically from when he was first elected.”
Perhaps nowhere has Mr. Trump’s persistent use of inflammatory language become as much of an issue as in Pennsylvania, where Republicans were already bracing to suffer losses in some newly drawn House districts before a gunman fixated on immigration massacred 11 worshipers at a Pittsburgh synagogue Saturday.
At a gathering in a tavern outside Philadelphia on Monday evening, supporters of Scott Wallace, a Democrat running in the state’s most hotly contested House race, denounced Mr. Trump for his “cruelty” and alluded repeatedly to the president’s rhetoric on race and national identity. Addressing a tightly packed crowd, former Representative Patrick Murphy, a Democrat who used to represent the area, warned that “people who hate feel so emboldened to act on it.”
The suburbs around Philadelphia used to be a reliable Republican bastion. But Shelley Howland, a Republican who attended the pro-Wallace event, said Mr. Trump represented a breaking point.
A supporter of abortion rights and gun control, Ms. Howland voted two years ago for Hillary Clinton over Mr. Trump, but stayed loyally Republican in the congressional election, supporting Mr. Wallace’s opponent,
Representative Brian Fitzpatrick, who is now seeking his second term. She said she would not support Mr. Fitzpatrick again.
“This year, it’s going to be a straight Democratic ticket,” said Ms. Howland, 65, lamenting “this whole movement to the alt-right, Steve Bannon in the White House, Trump in the White House.”
Mr. Wallace, an investor whose grandfather served as vice president, cast his campaign as an opportunity for Bucks County to repudiate a president who has unleashed a “Pandora’s box” of dangerous social turmoil.
“The tone that the president has set is absolutely toxic to relations between people of different faiths and different races and different sexual orientations,” Mr. Wallace said.
Pentagon Told White House Caravans Were No Threat
The Trump administration was informed by the Pentagon that “only a small percentage” of Central American migrants traveling with several “caravans” headed toward the U.S. will likely make it to the border, Newsweek reports.
“The information was received before the administration moved ahead with plans to deploy more than 5,200 troops to the border.”
__________________________
So what is our purpose, Mr President?
Provide propaganda for the election.
But people are seeing through you.
I guess the Pentagon is putting out fake news.
You guess wrong.
Your cite is PU.
The cite is click bait and nothing more.
Jane again is no cattle, all bullshit!
Oh Claire, just stop it.
"Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO) has most recently shifted gears on immigration, talking tough on border issues, although months ago the lawmaker co-sponsored legislation to end all immigration enforcement."
Or this Claire
"McCaskill: ‘I Support the President 100 Percent’ to Secure the Border."
Lol,
You guess wrong.
Well that's great. The Pentagon is correct and the troops are NOT needed.
Good thing you never served Jane.
You are proudly uninformed.
Trump was a draft dodger.
Troops Ordered to Murder
5-year-old Child that throws a rock at them? And YOU think This Man is NOT a F'in Lunatic?
LOCK HIM UP!
Troops Ordered to Murder
5-year-old Child that throws a rock at them? And YOU think This Man is NOT a F'in Lunatic?
LOCK HIM UP!
The beto campaign has just been busted by James O'Keefe for secretly and illegally using campaign money to assist the caravan in mexico.
Ted Cruz will crush him for it.
NBC reports early voting favors GOP.
Blue wave my ass.
Republicans vote out of fear.
Democrats vote out of hope.
Nearly 10 years ago, I led 154 people to safety as the captain of US Airways Flight 1549, which suffered bird strikes, lost thrust in the engines and was forced to make an emergency landing on the Hudson River. Some called it “the Miracle on the Hudson.” But it was not a miracle. It was, in microcosm, an example of what is needed in emergencies — including the current national crisis — and what is possible when we serve a cause greater than ourselves.
On our famous flight, I witnessed the best in people who rose to the occasion. Passengers and crew worked together to help evacuate an elderly passenger and a mother with a 9-month-old child. New York Waterway took the initiative to radio their vessels to head toward us when they saw us approaching. This successful landing, in short, was the result of good judgment, experience, skill — and the efforts of many.
Today, tragically, too many people in power are projecting the worst. Many are cowardly, complicit enablers, acting against the interests of the United States, our allies and democracy; encouraging extremists at home and emboldening our adversaries abroad; and threatening the livability of our planet. Many do not respect the offices they hold; they lack — or disregard — a basic knowledge of history, science and leadership; and they act impulsively, worsening a toxic political environment.
As a result, we are in a struggle for who and what we are as a people. We have lost what in the military we call unit cohesion. The fabric of our nation is under attack, while shame — a timeless beacon of right and wrong — seems dead.
This is not the America I know and love. We’re better than this. Our ideals, shared facts and common humanity are what bind us together as a nation and a people. Not one of these values is a political issue, but the lack of them is.
This current absence of civic virtues is not normal, and we must not allow it to become normal. We must rededicate ourselves to the ideals, values and norms that unite us and upon which our democracy depends. We must be engaged and informed voters, and we must get our information from credible, reputable sources.
For the first 85 percent of my adult life, I was a registered Republican. But I have always voted as an American. And this critical Election Day, I will do so by voting for leaders committed to rebuilding our common values and not pandering to our basest impulses.
When I volunteered for military service during wartime, I took an oath that is similar to the one our elected officials take: “I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” I vowed to uphold this oath at the cost of my life, if necessary. We must expect no less from our elected officials. And we must hold accountable those who fail to defend our nation and all our people.
After Flight 1549, I realized that because of the sudden worldwide fame, I had been given a greater voice. I knew I could not walk away but had an obligation to use this bully pulpit for good and as an advocate for the safety of the traveling public. I feel that I now have yet another mission, as a defender of our democracy.
It should be no surprise that homemade bombs have been sent to high-profile officials, a news network and a philanthropist, opinion writer Paul Waldman says. (Gillian Brockell/The Washington Post)
We cannot wait for someone to save us. We must do it ourselves. This Election Day is a crucial opportunity to again demonstrate the best in each of us by doing our duty and voting for leaders who are committed to the values that will unite and protect us. Years from now, when our grandchildren learn about this critical time in our nation’s history, they may ask if we got involved, if we made our voices heard. I know what my answer will be. I hope yours will be “yes.”
We must vote for the Democrats despite their differences with your beliefs because he is the biggest threat to the Republic in history.
Chesley B. “Sully” Sullenberger is a safety expert, author and speaker on leadership and culture.
Thecoldheartedtruth has been surrendered to a dictator.
Arizona's Green Party candidate announced she is dropping out of the state's Senate race and is endorsing the Democratic candidate Rep. Kyrsten Sinema.
Sinema is locked in a tight race with Republican Rep. Martha McSally to replace retiring Sen. Jeff Flake.
Angela Green told her supporters "to vote for a better Arizona, and that would be for Sinema."
Green said she was endorsing Sinema because her views more closely aligned with the Democratic candidate.
The Nevada law requires a 50% majority vote. The libertarian party generally gets a pretty decent percentage from Republicans. If these people show up to vote against Trump.
Trump has been making this election is upon him, not the Republican party candidates.
I can't even find the story even on Breitbart news or Fox Faux News or anything else.
Republican wave?
CNBC.com
A survey from Harvard Kennedy School's Institute of Politics shows a more politically mobilized crop of young Americans leaning away from Trump and the GOP in the midterms in near-equal proportions.
At the same time, the 18-to-29-year-old respondents appear to exhibit more support for some progressive policies.
Forty percent of them said they will definitely vote in the upcoming elections, according to the study.
The newest generation of voters is more energized to vote in the midterm elections than it has been in previous cycles — but not for President Donald Trump or the Republican Party, a recent poll found.
The survey, released Monday by Harvard Kennedy School's Institute of Politics, shows a more politically mobilized crop of young Americans leaning away from Trump and the GOP in the midterms in near-equal proportions, even as the majority party's core issues — immigration, jobs and the economy — rank among their highest concerns.
View interactive content
At the same time, the 18-to-29-year-old respondents are more aligned with some progressive policies, though they have yet to fully embrace the label of "Democratic Socialist" applied to politicians such as Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders or New York Democratic congressional candidate Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Critics of the president were quick to draw dire implications from the poll. Bill Kristol, who founded the conservative political magazine The Weekly Standard and is often lambasted as a "Never Trumper" by the president's allies, said the GOP needs to "dump Trump" if it wants a future.
CNBC.com
A survey from Harvard Kennedy School's Institute of Politics shows a more politically mobilized crop of young Americans leaning away from Trump and the GOP in the midterms in near-equal proportions.
At the same time, the 18-to-29-year-old respondents appear to exhibit more support for some progressive policies.
Forty percent of them said they will definitely vote in the upcoming elections, according to the study.
The newest generation of voters is more energized to vote in the midterm elections than it has been in previous cycles — but not for President Donald Trump or the Republican Party, a recent poll found.
Florida Republican Senate candidate Rick Scott and gubernatorial standard-bearer Ron DeSantis also look to be benefiting from early voting. As of Tuesday night, Republicans have cast 41.9% of early and absentee ballots, versus 40.1% by Democrats. This represents a 3-point swing toward Republicans in a state President Trump carried by 1.2 points in 2016.
No. Dems vote out of hatred and rage
Republicans vote out of want for prosperity.
Anonymous Myballs said...
No. Dems vote out of hatred and rage
And you and your ilk vote out of fear of losing your white privilege and power.....loser...
Blogger Roger Amick said...
Trump was a draft dodger.
so were you. what's your point?
Trump got a medical deferment. He's no more a draft dodger then Clinton was.
Because it would in effect not only the right to vote, but it could in effect that slavery would be allowed by state governments.
well, first of all alky, the word you're seeking is "affect," not "effect."
second, you have it exactly backwards. the 14th was written explicitly to acknowledge the citizenship of slaves and only slaves. it didn't even address native americans. so if trump's exec order were to be found legitimate, the prohibition of slavery remains at both the federal and the state level.
it simply returns the 14th to its original meaning as it was originally written.
Roger Amick said...
I can't even find the story even on Breitbart news or Fox Faux News or anything else.
Here you go Roger
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/kyrsten-sinema-gets-boost-in-arizona-senate-race-as-green-party-candidate-drops-out-backs-her
Now can you help me find stories about Beto funding caravan, Gillum hosting anti-Israel event or the Veritas videos, updates on the Kavanaugh accusers etc etc etc on CNN or MSNBC. TIA
Jobs smash estimates with gain of 250,000, wage gains pass 3% for first time since recession
Jeff Cox | @JeffCoxCNBCcom
Published 3 Hours Ago Updated 40 Mins AgoCNBC.com
Nonfarm payrolls increased by 250,000 for October, well ahead of Refinitiv estimates of 190,000.Average hourly earnings increased by 5 cents an hour for the month and 83 cents year-over-year, representing a 3.1 percent gain, the best pace since 2009.The unemployment rate stayed at 3.7 percent, the lowest since December 1969."
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