It is worth recognizing that at the same rate that Bob Mueller is amassing a mountain of provable factual evidence, the president is continuing to construct his national political movement based on the principle that reality should mostly be a choose-your-own-ending kind of enterprise—see this week’s dismissal of his own government’s game-changing climate report. His response to the Cohen news was equally predictable—hoax, witch hunt, he just “lightly looked at doing a building somewhere in Russia,” all very cool and very legal. But as Democrats take control of key committees in Congress in a few weeks, it will prove harder and harder to claim that the witness testimony, and facts, and evidence that the public will see with their own eyes is actually a grand-scale “Deep State” conspiracy. That is all about to happen, and as this week’s deluge demonstrated, it is likely to happen at a pace that will be challenging for many of us to keep up with.
There is no doubting that for millions of Americans, nothing Robert Mueller ever reveals will ever dislodge anything. But even without the delicious caper-movie master-plan reveal scene, it is becoming clear that Mueller’s investigators have been and are building to something that cannot be easily discounted. You can decide for yourself if all this is the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning or merely the middle of forever.
So, yeah... this is another one of those tipping points. Another bombshell. Another opportunity to demand that the walls are closing in on the President. Unless of course, you are incapable of having anything dislodge you from your previously formed believe that the President is innocent until proven guilty and that proving guilt actually takes evidence.
But let's be clear: the inability for someone to be dislodged from a position works both ways. The amount of confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance required to continue to oversell the importance of process crimes regarding actions entirely peripheral to the core issue is nothing short of astounding. I might also want to point out that if this argument was as overwhelmingly obvious as the author wants us to believe, there would be no need to throw in the analogical (and entirely irrelevant) rhetoric regarding global warming.
Now personally, none of this is happening at any pace that is difficult to keep up with. Robert Mueller has been investigating this for over a year and a half, inheriting an FBI investigation that already had been going on for approximately a year. So we are now going on two and a half years of investigating pretty much everything and anything having to do with pretty much everything and anything Donald Trump, under the less than believable pretense that this is still about election collusion.
But while Mueller seems hellbent on charging people who will never stand trial, and cutting deals for process crimes where the sentencing is measured in days, rather than months or years... he has yet to come up with "anything" that closely resembles a smoking gun regarding the very thing his special counsel was designed to investigate.
If this really "was" the week that is considered a tipping point, then it might actually be tipping entirely one hundred and eighty degrees from the direction that Dahlia Lithwick believes it is tipping. The reality here folks is that Robert Mueller has been relegated to investigating the fact that international real estate tycoon Donald Trump had been (for a handful of years) looking at the possibility of building real estate in a foreign country.
Seriously? What's next?
Investigating the fact that Vice President Pence goes to church?
60 comments:
You didn't include the conclusion by the author where he described you to a tee. Denial syndrome has irreversibly affected your ability to think.
There is no doubting that for millions of Americans, nothing Robert Mueller ever reveals will ever dislodge anything. But even without the delicious caper-movie master-plan reveal scene, it is becoming clear that Mueller’s investigators have been and are building to something that cannot be easily discounted. You can decide for yourself if all this is the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning or merely the middle of forever. But what it is not is the end—thank you Sen. John Thune—or even the middle of the end. For anyone who still allows the facts to determine outcomes, even through the confusion and the hectic pace, this was the week it got real.
You will not believe anything in the final document.
There is no doubting that for millions of Americans, nothing Robert Mueller ever reveals will ever dislodge anything. But even without the delicious caper-movie master-plan reveal scene, it is becoming clear that Mueller’s investigators have been and are building to something that cannot be easily discounted.
But you have already decided that the report is invalid.
The amount of confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance required to come to your conclusion is stunning.
But even without the delicious caper-movie master-plan reveal scene, it is becoming clear that Mueller’s investigators have been and are building to something that cannot be easily discounted.
Which is what, Rog?
Because the facts say that Robert Mueller charged Manafort with decade old tax evasion issues. He charged Russians with election tampering. He charged a half dozen or so people with process crimes, and the longest sentence he has gotten has been thirty days?
But those are just the fact, Rog.
Do the facts matter to you?
So using just the facts (without unproven speculation) Rog... what evidence does Mueller have that Trump or anyone within his campaign "colluded" with the Russians?
Show us all what we are missing?
well alky, CH certainly has managed to trigger your walker-pushing, geriatric ass, now didn't he?
slate is so fucking juvenile each article should be written in crayon.
it is becoming clear that Mueller’s investigators have been and are building to something that cannot be easily discounted.
really?
it seems to me that lithwick posits this just to keep the circle-jerk alive because remember, this narrative and the perpetuation of it are key to the democrats 2020 strategery.
when a card-carrying, dyed in the wool liberal like dershowitz is calling bullshit, you really need to take a long, hard look at what you're doing.
Well Rat...
For Rog, crayons are even a bit beyond him. We just wait patiently while he finds just the right article to "cut and paste"....
Since he obviously cannot think for himself in less than stellar physical and mental condition!
So using just the facts (without unproven speculation) Rog... what evidence does Mueller have that Trump or anyone within his campaign "colluded" with the Russians?
Show us all what we are missing?
according to roger, the evidence is out there and mueller just hasn't found it yet.
this is why at least two more years of investigations are warranted.
i'm thinking we get to the bottom of this around late october 2020 or so.
We don't know what the final document will contain. Or you say is missing.
You keep saying that you know that the investigation into the Russian intervention and possible coordination with the Trump campaign officials will not be valid no matter how convincing the evidence presented is accurate beyond a reasonable doubt.
Cognitive dissonance is required Scott.
I don't know if the investigation will contain and neither do you.
You won't believe anything it contains.
I will wait until it is released.
What is missing is the final conclusions.
You keep saying that you know that the investigation into the Russian intervention and possible coordination with the Trump campaign officials will not be valid no matter how convincing the evidence presented is accurate beyond a reasonable doubt in the final report.
Because you believe in the deep state conspiracy. Alex Jones has been replaced by Thecoldheartedtruth.
According to Scott, the evidence is out there and mueller just hasn't found it yet.
We don't know what they know.
Just because the investigation has expanded beyond just the possible Russian influence and coordination with the Trump campaign does not mean the investigation is invalid.
I wrote this myself Scott.
You keep saying that you know that the investigation into the Russian intervention and possible coordination with the Trump campaign officials will not be valid no matter how convincing the evidence presented is accurate beyond a reasonable doubt.
Cognitive dissonance is required Scott.
I don't know if the investigation will contain and neither do you.
You won't believe anything it contains.
I will wait until it is released.
The cut and paste was from your article from Slate. You omitted the final conclusion.
There is no doubting that for millions of Americans, nothing Robert Mueller ever reveals will ever dislodge anything. But even without the delicious caper-movie master-plan reveal scene, it is becoming clear that Mueller’s investigators have been and are building to something that cannot be easily discounted. You can decide for yourself if all this is the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning or merely the middle of forever. But what it is not is the end—thank you Sen. John Thune—or even the middle of the end. For anyone who still allows the facts to determine outcomes, even through the confusion and the hectic pace, this was the week it got real.
alky,
to date we've indicted 13 russians who will never stand trial in the US, and we've charged a hand full of folks with petty process crimes that were committed AS A RESULT of the appointment of the special prosecutor.
You keep saying that you know that the investigation into the Russian intervention and possible coordination with the Trump campaign officials will not be valid no matter how convincing the evidence presented is accurate beyond a reasonable doubt in the final report.
so where IS the final report???
30 months. $40 MILLION.
that's what we've invested so far. cohen might do time served and pay $9500. popadop got two weeks. two fucking weeks.
this fucking joke needs to end. mueller was charged with investigating russian collusion, not ruining the life of every person trump has ever passed on the fucking street. this has become a farce on every level imaginable.
You believe in the deep state conspiracy. Alex Jones has been replaced by Thecoldheartedtruth.
stop spamming the board with the same pull from the article, alky. are you goebbels reincarnated?
you fucking asshole.
this was the week it got real???
no, this was the week taxpayer funded NPR decided to peddle a gigantic LIE and got fucking CAUGHT.
No prosecutor builds a case the way Mueller is going about it. What prosecutor says, “Here’s our witness line-up: Michael Flynn, George Papadopoulos, Alex van der Zwaan, Rick Gates, Paul Manafort, Michael Cohen. And what is it that they have in common, ladies and gentlemen of the jury? Bingo! They’re all convicted liars.”?
For a prosecutor, like any trial lawyer, what the jury thinks is at least as important as what the law says. If the most memorable thing the jury takes into the deliberation room is that no one should believe a word your witnesses say, you are not going to convict the lowliest grifter, much less the president of the United States of America.
As a prosecutor, you build a case by having your cooperating accomplice witnesses plead guilty to the big scheme you are trying to pin on the main culprit. After all, what makes these witnesses accomplices, literally, is that they were participants in the main culprit’s crime. That’s the scheme you’re trying to prove. So, on guilty-plea day, the cooperator comes into court and admits guilt to the same conspiracy on which you are trying to nail the lead defendant.
That gets you 90 percent of the way home.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/12/robert-mueller-plan-trump-russia-investigation-report-not-case/
But if your intention is to smear by implication, rather than build an actual criminal case, you’d go about it the way Mueller is.
- stephen green
Speaking of triggering Roger, this should do it.
Conservative writer Corsi files criminal complaint against Mueller, alleges bid to seek false testimony
Conservative author Jerome Corsi on Monday filed a “criminal and ethics complaint” against Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s team, accusing investigators of trying to bully him into giving “false testimony” against President Trump.
The complaint, which Corsi had threatened for days, is the latest escalation between Mueller’s team and its investigation targets.
The 78-page document, asserting the existence of a “slow-motion coup against the president,” was filed to a range of top law enforcement officials including Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker, DOJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz, D.C.’s U.S. Attorney Jessie Liu and the Bar Disciplinary Counsel.
“Dr. Corsi has been criminally threatened and coerced to tell a lie and call it the truth,” the complaint states.
Corsi, who wrote the anti-President Obama book "The Obama Nation" and is connected with political operative Roger Stone, has claimed for the past week that he was being improperly pressured by Mueller’s team to strike a plea deal which he now says he won’t sign.
Now, of course, this will have to be investigated.
You keep saying that you know that the investigation into the Russian intervention and possible coordination with the Trump campaign officials will not be valid no matter how convincing the evidence presented is accurate beyond a reasonable doubt.
The investigation revealed other cases of the violations of federal law. Trump has been running a shaky business for decades. These are not unusual into complicated investigations.
I don't know if the investigation will contain and neither do you.
You won't believe anything it contains.
I will wait until it is released.
it will be the height of irony if this ends with the indictment of mueller and a bunch of his henchmen.
mueller's a dirty cop and all-around piece of shit from WAY back, so it would be cool to see him finally brought to justice.
Corsi is a conspiracy theorist who says that Obama was born in Kenya. No reasonable person will believe him.
You keep saying that you know that the investigation into the Russian intervention and possible coordination with the Trump campaign officials will not be valid no matter how convincing the evidence presented is accurate beyond a reasonable doubt.
no, it's just that we should've seen some results by now. russian collusion results that is.
The investigation revealed other cases of the violations of federal law. Trump has been running a shaky business for decades. These are not unusual into complicated investigations.
not really. what it did was unearth decades old shit completely unrelated to russian collusion.
this is not a "get trump at any cost" investigation alky. this is a russian collusion investigation. mueller was not given carte blanche to go freewheeling back to when trump was in his mother's womb.
I don't know if the investigation will contain and neither do you.
i don't think you even care. you just need to be rid of trump, and it's starting to look like you need to destroy his 2020 re-election chances because there is no and never was any trump collusion with the russians. you know you can't impeach him, so your backup plan is to drag this out for two more years to smear him.
it's politics all the way down for you, alky. justice is for suckers.
Well Rog...
We can only go by what we "know".
Occam's Razor suggests that the most likely answer to a question is the one that makes the "least" amount of assumptions.
It doesn't take "any" assumptions to state that Mueller has not charged anyone with, or prevented any evidence in any indictment of anyone associated with the Trump campaign with illegally conspiring with the Russians.
In fact, Mueller charged the Russians themselves with what he believes were the criminal actions involved, and not only did the indictments specifically state that no Americans were involved, he pushed those cases off to field offices for them to pursue.
If you make no assumptions, those facts seem to dictate that no Americans were involved and that that portion of investigation has been handed off to field offices because it was no longer a priority. A tiny assumption must be made to conclude that if there were really co-conspirators to come, that Mueller would have kept those cases on ice, till he could charge them all together and then pursue them himself. Because as a fundamental matter of logic... you do not split a conspiracy (crime involving multiple parties cooperating) case, by having the various Parties charged and prosecuted separately. I am not even sure that you could get a Judge to agree to allow one half of a criminal conspiracy to face charges in one court, while the other half is charged somewhere else.
Your only defense seems to be a complete strawman argument where you continuously insist that I hold viewpoints that I don't.
The fact that you continue to resort to strawman lies... means you have no actual argument to make.
It's not the fact that Clinton lost the election.
This is about the nation I love. We have been the longest organized Democratic government in history.
Donald Trump is attempting to impose a dictatorship and you are just riding along side. People like you are the reason why dictators have ruled throughout modern history.
Your only defense seems to be a complete strawman argument where you continuously insist that I hold viewpoints that I don't.
You have made it clear that no matter what he says beyond a reasonable doubt that you will choose not to believe it. Because you have bought into the deep state conspiracy theories.
You do hold these viewpoints based upon your history of comments since Trump was elected.
Corsi is a conspiracy theorist who says that Obama was born in Kenya. No reasonable person will believe him.
Criminal complaints have to be investigated.
In fact, Mueller charged the Russians themselves with what he believes were the criminal actions involved, and not only did the indictments specifically state that no Americans were involved, he pushed those cases off to field offices for them to pursue.
it's even worse than that.
if mueller truly cared about indicting those 12-13 russians, he would've secretly issued sealed indictments and snagged those guys in the dead of night when they were actually here. instead he kicked in manafort's door in a pre-dawn raid...
...what a profile in courage.
it was that incident that convinced me that mueller was only ever interested in removing trump, and everything else was just a nuisance.
Blogger Roger Amick said...
It's not the fact that Clinton lost the election.
sure it is. just because you lack the courage to admit it doesn't make it not so.
This is about the nation I love. We have been the longest organized Democratic government in history.
if you truly loved this nation you wouldn't advocate for purely destructive policies like open borders to garner the votes to perpetually win elections.
and we're a representative republic. get it right.
Donald Trump is attempting to impose a dictatorship
perhaps you'd like to include a single piece of evidence to back up this claim. just one. in your own words.
go for it, alky.
start by listing the government agencies trump has weaponized against his political opponents like 0linsky.
then tell us which members of the media were unlawfully scrutinized like james rosen and several members of the AP.
all you have are various levels of psychological projection that accuses trump of doing what 0linsky has actually DONE.
now get to copying and pasting, chief.
You have made it clear that no matter what he says beyond a reasonable doubt that you will choose not to believe it.
you be sure to let us know when he actually DOES, 'k alky?
and btw, what he says does not magically clear the reasonable doubt hurdle just because it contains mueller's signature.
it is not entitled to be automatically believed.
Donald Trump is attempting to impose a dictatorship and you are just riding along side. People like you are the reason why dictators have ruled throughout modern history.
And this has "what" to do with Mueller's investigation?
Objectively and legally. Nothing.
In your mind. Everything.
You have made it clear that no matter what he says beyond a reasonable doubt that you will choose not to believe it.
No Roger...
I have made it clear that without evidence of collusion, that it's unreasonable and illogical to believe that there was collusion. That requires "faith" without fact.
It's simple logic that works across the board in every situation (not just this particular case).
In fact, in pretty much every other investigation that was not politically charged... you would agree with me 100% that someone is not guilty unless there is evidence that proves otherwise, and that unless there is evidence, that it's irresponsible and problematic to simply demand guilt in spite of it all.
alky,
mueller hasn't issued a single word on a final report, but just because you fully expect it to be damning of trump you're prepared to believe what hasn't even been written yet.
that's fucked up.
Scott you have said that the people inside the investigation are politically motivated, not just the pursuit of the evidence wherever it goes.
This is not a politically motivated investigation. Trump has been claiming that since day one. You have been agreeing with him every day.
The investigation was triggered by the information that the Russians were aggressively targeting Clinton in favor of Trump.
The freedom to elect our leaders is the fundamental right of the people. Foreign involvement is a non partisan motivation. If the candidate was involved is not politically motivated. The sanctity of the election is a foundation of the Republic.
it's irresponsible and problematic to simply demand innocence in spite of it all.
This has been your started belief since day one of the investigation.
That was my response to the racist rodent bastard who hates beaners and so on who aren't lily white.
it's irresponsible and problematic to simply demand innocence in spite of it all.
Innocents is presumed. It's irresponsible and problematic to simply demand guilt without a shred of evidence or even the existence of a crime.
Scott you have said that the people inside the investigation are politically motivated, not just the pursuit of the evidence wherever it goes.
Because the people who started the investigation were politically motivated, as is well known based on the fact that they have been fired, demoted, and multiple investigators were referred by the IG for possible criminal prosecution.
To say that the FBI investigation was not politically motivated is to simply ignore the facts.
Which, Rog... seems to be a real issue for you. You simply cannot handle the facts. You spend pretty much all of your time "ignoring the facts" while continuously pretending that "possibilities" should be taken with the same value as known facts.
Everytime you are confronted with a fact, you come back with some sort of "potential" of something unknown.
The "FACT" is that Rosenstein appointed Mueller to investigate Russia and Trump. Not Russia and Americans. Not Russia and anyone else who might have been involved.
But very, very, specifically... investigate Russia and Trump (and his associates).
BY FACT Roger - that creates an investigated that by the rule of law is required to be completely motivated by whether or not the person in question is associated with Trump to determine the degree that the person is investigated.
Nobody "else" (other than those associated with Trump) will be investigated, because that is the way that the Special Counsel was set up.
Had it been set up to be what you claim you want it to be... it would have been set up to figure how the Russians influenced the election and whether or not "ANY AMERICANS" took part. That would have (by nature) included Steele, the DNC, Clinton, etc... as they all had dealings (through Steele) with the Russians. It would have also incluced investigating GPS (who was working with the Russian who attempted to set up the Trump Tower meetings as well as other Russians).
It it simply factually incorrect (not a matter of opinion) to say that the investigation is not politically partisan. The entire special counsel appointment was politically partisan BY DESIGN!
Obama spent eight years writing his own laws and weaponizing the IRS, doj and FBI. But trump is the dictator??
Blogger Roger Amick said...
it's irresponsible and problematic to simply demand innocence in spite of it all.
well alky, in this country you claim to love so much, innocence is presumed until guilt is proven beyond reasonable doubt.
you're just so fucking desperate to be rid of trump you want him found guilty IN SPITE of the fact that he may very well be innocent.
the same with kavanaugh. you despised him, hated him, and were desperate to find him guilty no matter what to prevent his appointment to the USSC.
you leftists are fucking evil when you don't get your way.
When 2nd Generation Alky goes for it he goes Bigly. So wrong. Someday failing weak alky might pick up a US History book.
"We have been the longest organized Democratic government in history." Wrong
The Roman republic lasted about 481 years and Athenian democracy lasted about 250 years. However no republic or democracy has ever has ever cherished equality, inclusiveness and freedom as much as the American experiment.
Nor has there ever been a republic that has governed such a huge and diverse land in history. I suspect that is the genius of the federal system the founders created.
I have not drank any alcohol for 2,352 days. 😀 one day at a time.
The previous comment by the kput'z was destroyed by CS.
The Roman republic lasted about 481 years and Athenian democracy lasted about 250 years. However no republic or democracy has ever has ever cherished equality, inclusiveness and freedom as much as the American experiment.
Nor has there ever been a republic that has governed such a huge and diverse land in history. I suspect that is the genius of the federal system the founders created.
The Roman empire was not a federal republic. Neither were the Greek empires. They had royal family rulers.
Scott we are going to agree to disagree about the investigation.
I don't agree with your opinion.
The entire special counsel appointment was politically partisan BY DESIGN!
Kind of ironic since it's the same federal system you hated so much and blame for Hillary Clinton's loss.
But it's the federal system I support in all of it's forms including equal sufferage in the senate and the electoral college.
The dumbass goat fucker once again can't find his own ass in the dark....Another example of American failure to learn kids....LOLOLOL
"We have been the longest organized Democratic government in history." Wrong
Neither the Roman Republic nor the Democracy at Athens were governed by royal families (what would be the point).
senate and the electoral college.
Of course you love the electoral college....It allowed your party of stupid to win 2 modern presidents while losing the popular vote the last one by a significant vote count.....
It's a feature of federalism, whine about it all you like it ain't going away.
whine about it all you like it ain't going away.
Your predictive abilities at best are suspect....If I were a betting man I would go with it will go away, maybe not in your menial lifetime, but will go away...
One thing about trump.....he'll be the first to toss your ass under a bus......sad that he demands such loyalty only when he needs it.....
President Trump on Monday sounded off on the Russia investigation, suggesting his former personal attorney Michael Cohen should not receive leniency for cooperating with the probe and declaring that former Trump campaign adviser Roger Stone had “guts” for refusing to testify against him.
“I will never testify against Trump,” the president wrote on Twitter. “This statement was recently made by Roger Stone, essentially stating that he will not be forced by a rogue and out of control prosecutor to make up lies and stories about ‘President Trump.’ Nice to know that some people still have “guts!”
In an interview on ABC’s “This Week with George Stephanopoulos” Sunday, Stone said there was “no circumstance under which I would testify against the president.”
“I’d have to bear false witness against him,” Stone said. “I’d have to make things up and I’m not going to do that.”
The entire special counsel appointment was politically partisan BY DESIGN!
So you factually disagree that Mueller's appointment letter specifically tells him to target Trump and associates?
Or do you disagree that an appointment telling special counsel to target Trump and his associates (when no crime had been established) is not a partisan act.
Partisan (Adj) prejudiced in favor of a particular cause.
.If I were a betting man I would go with it will go away, maybe not in your menial lifetime, but will go away...
Sure all you need is 2/3 of the house and senate and 3/4 of the states to be stupid enough to disenfranchise themselves.
Yeah I'l take that bet.
Watching the ceremony in DC....America sure knows how to do a proper send off......as long as donnie stays home and avoids embarrassing us again....
Cramps our GED restating the obvious while missing the point I said not in our lifetime....
Sure all you need is 2/3 of the house and senate and 3/4 of the states to
Yep, it would take that plus time....I really doubt many would feel disenfranchised with winner take all like in all local and state elections...idot...
CS is correct.
I am correct.
2nd Generation Alky , wrong.
Despite the obvious progress of the Mueller investigation — more than 30 indictments or guilty pleas, including Trump’s campaign chairman, personal lawyer, national security adviser, deputy campaign manager and foreign policy adviser — consistently argued that “no collusion” has been proved. Collusion is not a crime.
While it is true that the charges made public have not alleged conspiracy (there is no crime of “collusion”) it should be clear to all but the most obtuse you Scott by now that the endgame is drawing near. Mueller is laying out the predicate for a wide-ranging conspiracy case that will likely ensnare the president’s family and, quite likely, Trump himself.
They were colluding with the Russians and did business with Russians during the campaign and administration officials his lawyer"s".
The entire special counsel appointment was politically partisan BY DESIGN!
Are your words.
You cognitive dissonance is required to come to your conclusion.
It was not prejudiced against him for a political cause.
particular does not apply in this duscusions.
cog·ni·tive dis·so·nance
noun - PSYCHOLOGY
the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change.
on the contrary, oh ye of the second hand liver...
CH's thoughts, and mine have been COMPLETELY CONSISTENT with regards to the mueller probe.
it's been a partisan sham since day one. it will remain a partisan sham until complete, and it will go down in history as nothing more than a failed coup attempt by democrats who sought to subvert democracy because they would not accept the results of a legal and completely lawful election.
it is partisan by design when every person on the case is a rabid partisan democrat.
and please, spare us the bullshit about mueller being a republican. so was mcstain. in name only.
Post a Comment