Friday, February 7, 2020

Several layers of the acquittal

I challenge any liberal here to debate this rationally!

1) I agree with the Democratic Counsel from the impeachment hearings who was asked to compare and contrast what Joe Biden did (in threatening aid if Shokin wasn't fired) to what Trump did. He argued that it's perfectly acceptable for an Administration to engage in quid pro quo when it comes to foreign aid, as long as the quid pro quo is in line with our policy. This argument is consistent with the 1960's laws written regarding Foreign Aid, which provides the executive branch (not the legislative branch) the authority to set terms and conditions for said release of aid.

2) I agree with the argument made by Alan Dershowitz on the subject of political actions that help politicians politically not being automatically considered corrupt. His argument is that a political action that is otherwise legal (such as setting the terms and conditions for the release of foreign aid) cannot be considered illegal or corrupt simply because the political action might help that politician politically or that it might aid in his/her reelection. At the bare minimum, if there is a plausible justification that can be made for that political action, you cannot demand it to be corrupt simply because it also helps that politician politically. Arguing differently would literally handcuff any and all politicians from doing any political act (pushing a bill, voting a certain way, speaking engagements, any number of things) that also helped them politically. To argue against Dershowitz would be to argue that we turn the political world upside down and into complete chaos.

If you take parts one and two together... you have the President engaging in the legal action of negotiating terms and conditions in exchange for foreign aid (legal as argued by Democratic council and confirmed by statutory law). The request that Burisma (possibly entangling Hunter Biden) be investigated is a legitimate action that can be plausibly argued to be in the best interest of the United States. In fact, three of the Democrat's own witnesses admitted in sworn testimony that they believed that this situation deserved to be investigated. The fact that the action was well within his Presidential authority, the request was considered valid by people within the state department, makes it impossible to demand that the actions were "corrupt and illegal" simply because the byproduct might mean that Joe Biden might be harmed politically.

3) I agree with Jonathan Turley when he argued that even if the events were corrupt and impeachable, that the Democrats rushed their impeachment efforts and fell well short of proving what they were attempting to prove. So as much as I believe that the alleged quid pro quo is perfectly legal (even if possibly politically inappropriate), the fact of the matter is that the Democrats in the House refused to take the time to gather the evidence needed to convince skeptics that it was true. All in all they called 18 witnesses in to provide testimony. Much of that testimony was not released to the public, or even presented to the accused. They only interviewed one person with some first hand dealings with the President, who admitted under oath that he had no tangible first hand evidence that Ukraine was being pressured. They ended their investigation without a single witness that had evidence of any agreement between Trump and Zelensky, much less the agreement being suggested. They refused to take the time to enforce subpoenas in court, and even dropped a subpoena that was being litigated rather than get a judgement from the courts. Keeping in mind that Nixon resigned after 10 months of impeachment hearings in the House, and there had been an entire special counsel as well as a bi-partisan impeachment hearing before the Clinton Senate trial, it's clear that this Congress fell well short of the sort of complete investigation that they needed before going to trial. Asking for the Senate to make up the difference was inappropriate at best and unconstitutional at worst.

4) The reality doesn't match the accusations. Even if you concede almost everything else, the truth of the matter is that the aid was released and there was nothing provided in return. While it's one thing to argue that this sort of questionable action is impeachable, it's quite another to argue that just having some "desire" or "possible intent" to do something that didn't happen is impeachable. Especially when the allegations are simply based on accusations, opinions, speculation, and presumptions. Every last one of those accusations, opinions, speculations, and presumption automatically and logically become less believable when those "feelings" do not equate to what actually happened.

5) The Ukrainians deny any deal or being pressured. It's one thing to suggest that Ukraine had a good reason to lie, but it's another to simply "assume as much". First and foremost, such an assumption does not make much sense. To believe what Democrats are arguing, is to believe that Zelensky would have no problems double-crossing Trump over a set deal, but then would be too scared to admit a deal actually was made. By double crossing the President, Zelensky would have already burned his bridges and would have no good reason at that point to then pretend he didn't.

Generally in the absence of anything else, you might be prone to accept the obvious. The President denies making a deal with Zelensky. Zelensky denies there was ever a deal. Nobody has any evidence that such a deal ever existed between the two Presidents. Such an alleged deal never became reality. Perhaps the deal never actually existed? Sure seems to be the safest assumption given the facts.

But what do the "facts" matter anyways?

Impeachment was always a political act based on raw emotion.

24 comments:

Anonymous said...




I challenge any liberal here to debate this rationally!


yeah right.

expect an alky-lanche of copy/pastes as soon as the nurses station at green grove reboots the wireless router.


Caliphate4vr said...

225,000 jobs

Anonymous said...



I enjoyed Trump’s speech because it was a magnificent statement about America becoming a nation that benefits not the 1% but the 99%. In a funny way, Trump is the real “Occupy Movement,” because his policies, by taking the regulatory yoke off American necks, unleashed American energy, innovation, and creativity — and the 99% did the rest. Trump is not a plutocrat or an oligarch; he is the answer to the plutocracy and oligarchy of the Obama era, a time during which we saw an almost fascistic fusion between government and big money.

I enjoyed Trump’s speech because, despite his subdued affect (I prefer him in rip-roaring stump-speech mode), he is a showman and knows how to entertain. His guests didn’t just illustrate his political points; his guests got something for showing up, such as private school admissions or husbands home from war. The most moving moment for me was Rush Limbaugh’s face when he received that well-deserved Medal of Freedom (starting at 1:38).

[...]

And lastly, I enjoyed Trump’s speech because it was absolutely wonderful watching the angry, petty, anti-American Democrats impotently fuming as Trump reeled off success after success — for all Americans — in the same country that they insist is a sterile, hate-filled, broken dystopia. From the first minute of the speech, I was riveted by Nancy’s theatrics. As she frowned, riffled through papers, mimed words, sucked her dentures, waved to people in the crowd, I laughed. She was the exact equivalent of an angry teenager forced by her parents to do something against her will and getting her revenge in as petty a way as possible. Her theatrically ripping up the speech at the end of the evening was the perfect drama queen moment of a frustrated 15-year-old girl denied an evening at the mall with her friends.

In the same way, the Democrats seated in the audience who refused to rise as Trump touted how well America and Americans are doing, were also utterly adolescent. They were going to cut off their collective noses out of spite if it killed them. There they all were, making a grand point about their disapproval for the utterly evil man who . . . ran concentration camps? No. Sent people to gulags? No. Cast gays in prison or hanged them? No. None of that.


http://www.bookwormroom.com/2020/02/05/sotu-another-reminder-if-one-was-needed-about-the-lefts-juvenile-narcissism/

Anonymous said...

jobs rocket up Adding 225,000
Participation Rate Up
And.
Unemployment up slightly 
ALL great Numbers

Anonymous said...



heh:



Emerald Robinson ✝️

@EmeraldRobinson

I don’t understand why Bernie Sanders supporters are so upset about the Iowa caucus.

You wanted more socialism.

Last night, you got more socialism.

Third world tech, missing vote counts, chaotic rules, rigged elections.

The only thing missing: food shortages.

11:49 AM · Feb 5, 2020



Anonymous said...

Too funny.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

History will not say what Ch says, and he knows it.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

@8:42AM
I guess it was socialism that caused the GOP to experience problems in a previous Iowa caucus.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Ch's first argument:
If quid pro quo is legal when it accords with official government policy and is offered through normal government channels, Ch, why did Trump go outside those normal channels and work through his sleazy personal lawyer to offer Ukraine a political quid pro quo which they resisted because they did not want to get involved in American politics?

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

And why were so many of his own people so deeply disturbed by that method of doing what Trump wanted to do?

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Fucking Bullshit Pedo

Anonymous said...

Blogger KansasDemocrat said...

Fucking Bullshit Pedo


the dumb fuck doesn't realize that everything was done in accordance with the treaty clinton signed to prosecute criminality and corruption in ukraine. i posted the treaty language in its entirety for alky's benefit about a week ago.

C.H. Truth said...

If quid pro quo is legal when it accords with official government policy and is offered through normal government channels, Ch, why did Trump go outside those normal channels and work through his sleazy personal lawyer to offer Ukraine a political quid pro quo which they resisted because they did not want to get involved in American politics?

Hmmmmm....

Perhaps because he didn't trust any of the sleazy state department anti-Trump hangers-on to not undermine him and try to screw everything up! Especially considering you have people working for him who have been "trying" to get him impeached!

I am not a fan of Trump using Giuliani...

But it's 100% clear he cannot trust much of the State Department to follow the plan he and the SOS want to implement. So until there is an overhaul and a mass firing of disloyal employees, it's hard to trust that the State Department will do their jobs.

C.H. Truth said...

Ch, why did

So Reverend Hypocrite....

If quid pro quo is illegal... how can you justify the former VP telling the Ukrainian Government that a billion dollars was contingent on firing of a prosecutor!

Remember... to argue that it was "consistent with US Policy...

Is to argue that quid pro quo is legal!


So take a side!

Did BOTH Biden and Trump "break the law"

or was the Democratic council and the foreign aid laws correct?

Anonymous said...




well, son of a bitch!!!...




LOL.

the fucking pederast doesn't even know which end is up at this point.


Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

You are not stupid, Ch, nor am I.

You cannot hypocritically twist this around:

Anyone should be able to see that
there is a difference between a quid pro quo in support of open, fully admitted, well known, widely supported non-partisan government policy carried out through the usual government channels by government officials

and a quid pro quo done behind the scenes without open, admitted, well known, widely supported government policy by unofficial cronies in support of a president's own partisan political interests.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Several Republican Senators who voted for acquittal admitted that the President had done wrong in seeking that kind of quid pro quo.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Richard Millhouse Nixon:
I am not a crook.

Donald John Trump:
I did nothing wrong.

Anonymous said...




Donald John Trump:

acquitted for life!


C.H. Truth said...

Anyone should be able to see that there is a difference between a quid pro quo in support of open, fully admitted, well known, widely supported non-partisan government policy carried out through the usual government channels by government officials


Nobody in Congress knew that the Obama administration was threatening to withhold a billion dollars in Financial aid to Ukraine contingent on firing of a prosecutor. At least not any Republicans knew about it.

Americans as a whole didn't find out about it until Biden bragged it up in front of some Democratic big shots, trying to make himself seem more potent and powerful than he was... and it went viral on YouTube...


So save the cheap rhetoric, Reverend Hypocrite... it wasn't open. Firing a prosecutor was not a congressional priority, just a White House (or possibly just a Biden) priority.


But you are clearly admitting that it's legal as long as Joe Biden does it and there is some claim that it was "policy".

Which, of course, is Dershowitz's argument.

That as long as there is a plausible argument that the action is in our country's interest (even when the argument is in direct contrast to why the fuck would anyone care about a Ukrainian prosecutor)... then it's legal.



But I ask you this, James....

If three of the Democrat's own impeachment witnesses admitted under oath that they felt that investigating Burisma was a good idea, and that they felt that Hunter Biden's situation was questionable...

How can you "not" argue that bringing that up is not in our best interests?

Are you saying that the Democrat's own witnesses were full of shit?

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

I didn't say everyone knew about the withheld money, Sherlock. I said it was withheld in support of a legitimate, well-known, and widely supported policy decision on the part of our officials and the officials of our allies and of decent officials in Ukraine that the corrupt prosecutor Shokin had to go because because he was not fighting corruption as he was supposed to be doing but was actually encouraging it.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

But you are clearly admitting that it's legal as long as Joe Biden does it and there is some claim that it was "policy".

No, I'm not "clearly" admitting that at all.

I'm saying that it's legal NOT on the basis of "some claim" that it was 'policy,' but because it actually WAS policy. It WAS widely supported policy on our part of us and on the part of our European allies and on the part of decent anti-corruption Ukrainian officials that the corrupt prosecutor Shokin had to go.

C.H. Truth said...

Well Reverend Hypocrite...

There are a lot of people on both sides of the aisle and from both the current and the previous Administrations, as well as people who have been in the State Department for years...

Who all believed that Hunter Biden's position was an issue and that Burisma should be investigated.


How can you continue to argue that this would not be a legitimate request to have made? Do you believe you are just smarter and better informed than all of those Government employees?