Tuesday, June 2, 2020

Competing autopsy reports?

Hennepin Medical Examiner classifies George Floyd's death as 'homicide'
During a news conference Monday afternoon, two doctors hired by the Floyd family to do a private autopsy said they believe he died of asphyxia, which happens when oxygen flow is cut off, causing the brain and other organs to stop working.
 
Hours later, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office issued its final public report, stating that Floyd died as a result of “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression.” A spokesperson for the office, citing Minnesota laws, said they could not discuss that cause of death further.
The report noted that Floyd “experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s).”
It also listed “arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease,” as well as fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use as “other significant conditions.”

We've been through this before, where we learned that the term "homicide" in an autopsy was not necessarily the equivalent of murder. It simply means that the cause of death involved the actions of another person, rather than a suicide, natural causes, or something else. Nobody is denying that the officer is responsible, but calls for first degree murder at this point (because of the autopsy) make no legal or logical sense. First degree murder requires planning of the events and a motive to kill someone intentionally.

The state will charge him with third degree murder and manslaughter and hope for the best when it invariably goes to trial.

The autopsy bought and paid for by the Floyd family done on the fly is simply not as complete and likely less accurate than the one done over the course of several days by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner. I doubt anyone seriously believes that Examiners office would make up claims that he had medical conditions that seem fairly common and consistent with who the man was and what happened.

The alarming thing here, however, isn't the disagreement as to whether this was a perfectly healthy man or a man with preexisting conditions, or even whether he died of asphyxia or cardiopulmonary arrest. The main issue at hand is the intoxication at the time, and the finding of fentanyl and meth in the blood stream.

Further investigations have uncovered that the original call to the police was not because of of the fact that Floyd was attempting to pass a funny $20 bill, but that he was causing a disturbance in the store and was over the top intoxicated according to the store worker who made the complaint. The worker described Floyd to be at the point of being fall down drunk  (in fact he was high on fentanyl and meth but fall down drunk may be a similar look).

How this affects a possible trial or even if it does affect a trial is something we will have to see. But it certainly gives a good defense attorney some fodder to work with. A very large man, high as a kite, police called because of disturbing actions, resisting arrest to the point were a second unit needed to be called... is a very different narrative to a quiet man being harassed by the police because he tried to pass a counterfeit $20 bill.  It doesn't change the end result that Floyd is dead and the police officer is responsible, but it muddies the water a little bit.


45 comments:

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

The man was lying when he kept saying, I can't breathe. Please help me. I can't breathe.

Anonymous said...


jon gabriel
@exjon
·
11h

Have you considered sending all the looters to nursing homes?

Quote Tweet

Andrew Cuomo
@NYGovCuomo
· 12h

There are justified peaceful protests across the state tonight.

But there are also people criminally exploiting this pain and this moment.

We will not tolerate it.



https://twitter.com/exjon/status/1267648045753094144

C.H. Truth said...

The man was lying when he kept saying, I can't breathe. Please help me. I can't breathe.

Why would you say that Reverend? The guy died.

Obviously he couldn't breath?

Why would you believe he is lying about it?

Why are you suddenly on the side of the police officer?

C.H. Truth said...

We will not tolerate it.


If by not tolerating it... he means lubing up his anus prior to bending over and taking it up the ass, then perhaps.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Ch, even you cannot be so stupid or insensitive as not to realize I WAS BEING SARCASTIC TOWARD YOU.
____________

Do you realize even for a moment how any decent black person reading this thread article of yours would react?

You are saying that even though both autopsies indicated "homicide," that should not be regarded as a legal charge of murder, even though the man kept saying he couldn't breathe and kept begging that he not be killed.

Are you really that far out of touch with being a caring human being?

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

10:18
You have descended onto rat's level.

cowardly king obama said...

Steph
@steph93065

Imagine if @tedcruz was the one that "declined to prosecute" the bad cop that ultimately killed #GeorgeFloyd?

Would he be enjoying the favorable media that @amyklobuchar is enjoying?

No. He would have already have had to resign.


And where was the Human Resources dept or whatever they call themselves now. If you want to solve this problem you have to address them and the union protecting rogue workers. They have way too much power and are way too political.

And never have any fingers pointed at them by protestors or the press.

C.H. Truth said...

Ch, even you cannot be so stupid or insensitive as not to realize I WAS BEING SARCASTIC TOWARD YOU.

Well then you are a moron.

Do you realize even for a moment how any decent black person reading this thread article of yours would react?

React to what? What was found in the autopsy?

We are not allowed to actually tell the truth or present facts anymore unless they shed a good light on the victim? That is exactly the sort of dishonesty that causes all of the problems here, Reverend.


The only underlying truth here are the facts.

None of which change the general concept that the cop was in the wrong and now someone is dead.

But that doesn't mean that the rest of this doesn't exist, that it won't come up at trial, and nobody is allowed to talk about.

Based on the original complaint and the medical examiners report, Mr Floyd was sky high (according to the complaint) and had Fentanyl and meth in his blood (according to the blood reports).

Are you suggesting that these things are either not true or irrelevant?

Are you suggesting that facts cannot be told because black people will be upset if it turns out Floyd was high on drugs?


What the fuck happens, Reverend... if this information somehow convinces people on a jury that the cop isn't guilty and he gets off? How pissed off will people be? Does it help (at all) to hide this information because we would all prefer to believe that Floyd was a nice man, out on a sunny spring day and was arrested for little or no reason (passing a phony $20) and killed in cold blood. It would make this all simpler.

But it's never that simple... Reverend.

Rhetoric and political nonsense might paint perfect pictures, but real life doesn't work that way.

In real life, this isn't that simple. I don't like it. I wish that there was no drugs in his stream and that the original story told (that it was about $20) was correct. It would have been simpler and easier to process.

But I have to confront reality...

You should too.

Stop playing politics.

cowardly king obama said...

Fentanyl can cause breathing problems...I would think this is highly relevant.


It's important to note that certain problems can develop in people taking this medication. For example, fentanyl can cause life-threatening breathing problems (called "respiratory depression").

http://pain.emedtv.com/fentanyl/respiratory-depression-with-fentanyl.html


Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...



Fentanyl can cause breathing problems...I would think this is highly relevant.


It's important to note that certain problems can develop in people taking this medication. For example, fentanyl can cause life-threatening breathing problems (called "respiratory depression").



there's a batch of cocaine laced with fentanyl floating around my region that's caused about 30 OD's in the past couple weeks.

nasty shit.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Ch SAYS
But I have to confront reality...
You should too.
Stop playing politics.
___________

JAMES SAYS

Politics?

Playing politics?

I regard what I am about to say as reality:

George Floyd could have been drunk or high on whatever, or maybe he did something earlier that justified restraining him, but when the man was lying there handcuffed and helpless pinned against the pavement, and not only he but some of the onlookers who were there kept begging the policeman who had his knee on his neck to let him breathe...
well, at this point you step in and start listing all the reasons we should not regard this as an act of police overreaction and even brutality that indicates a despicable racist hatred!

I myself am tired of seeing videos like the one of a fleeing black man being repeatedly shot in the back until he fell dead, or a nice young black man who had just arrived in a service station and was asked by an officer for some identification, and when he turned to his truck to get it, that officer started shooting him, repeatedly.

I am sick and tired of seeing things like that, and I can only begin to imagine the immensity of outrage I would feel if I were black.

So you can call that playing politics if you wish, but I call what you do a clear exhibition of racial bias.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

At least one priest was among the people whom police cleared from the patio of St. John’s Episcopal Church ahead of President Trump’s visit Monday evening.

The Rev. Gini Gerbasi said in a Facebook post that she, along with the church's seminarian, were forcibly removed from the patio less than an hour before Trump arrived to take pictures in front of St. John's while holding a Bible. The patio clearing coincided with the use of tear gas to empty Lafayette Square outside of the White House to allow the president to travel on foot to the church.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

re 11:42
By the way, even Commonsense admitted that the officer in the video of the young man at the service station should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Myballs said...

I saw a story of a Las Vegas police officer shot in the back of his head. Is James tired of that too?

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Yes.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Hell of a job, Donnie.
You've managed to bring back the 1918 Pandemic, 1929 Depression & 1968 Race Riots at the same time

Caliphate4vr said...

Warning: More police confirm reports of groups in residential neighborhoods, taking photos of homes with police cars in driveways

Myballs said...

I have no doubt that kneeling on his neck contributed to his death. I happen to have a black sash in kung fu and its a control technique I myself have learned. A good chokehold constricks oxygen to the brain and can render someone unconscious in seconds. To kneel on someone's neck like that for 10 minutes is grossly excessive. Even when the victim is 6 ft 6 inches. The charges against the officer are legitimate. All this violence, arson and destruction is not. These governors need to get off their politically correct asses and stop it.

Myballs said...

Trump will be another FDR. Lead the nation through multiple hard times that were not of his doing.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

re 12:06
I don't think so, Myballs.

But I'm glad to hear you say that for I guess you may actually believe it. For if you actually do believe it, it shows that you at least hope for the best for our country.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

GOP Senator Says Trump Shouldn’t Have Cleared Protesters

Sen. Tim Scott (R-SC) told Politico that protesters in Lafayette Square should not have been cleared with tear gas and rubber bullets to accommodate President Trump’s visit to a historic church, a rebuke of the president by the only black Republican in the Senate.
_______

Exactly right.
By treating peaceful protesters that way, Trump ranged himself against one of the most important and sacred principles we live by.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

GOP Sen Ben Sasse slams Trump hard: “I’m against clearing out a peaceful protest for a photo op that treats the Word of God as a political prop."

Caliphate4vr said...

h, a rebuke of the president by the only black Republican in the Senate.

How many black donks are in the senate T Bone and Kamaltoe?

Idiot

Anonymous said...

I love Joe Hidden.

"Instead of standing there and teaching a cop, when there’s an unarmed person coming at them with a knife or something, you shoot them in the leg instead of in the heart is a very different thing. There’s a lot of different things that could change,” Biden said"

A knife is not a deadly weapon.
Joe missed 911.

C.H. Truth said...

George Floyd could have been drunk or high on whatever, or maybe he did something earlier that justified restraining him, but when the man was lying there handcuffed and helpless pinned against the pavement, and not only he but some of the onlookers who were there kept begging the policeman who had his knee on his neck to let him breathe...

And?

Are you suggesting that he couldn't have been entirely disorderly, high as a kite, that it took four police to settle him down... and that having those drugs in his system might have had something to do with the fact he died.


AND

That the cop was still in the wrong for putting his knee on him for 9 minutes when it was completely unnecessary??



This isn't an either or situation Reverend...

It's a situation where quite possibly neither are completely innocent in all of this... and that that fact doesn't make the cop ANY LESS GUILTY!


So again... Just because the cop is guilty as sin...


Doesn't discount the fact that Floyd was fucked up at the time and probably shouldn't have been taking those drugs.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

A Twitter account claiming to belong to a national “antifa” organization and pushing violent rhetoric related to ongoing protests has been linked to the white nationalist group Identity Evropa, according to a Twitter spokesperson.

The spokesperson said the account violated the company's platform manipulation and spam policy, specifically the creation of fake accounts. Twitter suspended the account after a tweet that incited violence.


As protests were taking place in multiple states across the U.S. Sunday night, the newly created account, @ANTIFA_US, tweeted, “Tonight’s the night, Comrades,” with a brown raised fist emoji and “Tonight we say 'F--- The City' and we move into the residential areas... the white hoods.... and we take what's ours …”

This isn’t the first time Twitter has taken action against fake accounts engaged in hateful conduct linked to Identity Evropa, according to the spokesperson.

The antifa movement — a network of loosely organized radical groups who use direct action to fight the far-right and fascism — has been targeted by President Donald Trump as the force behind some of the violence and property destruction seen at some protests, though little evidence has been provided for such claims.

Other misinformation and misleading claims spread across Twitter on Sunday night and into Monday related to the protests.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/twitter-takes-down-washington-protest-disinformation-bot-behavior-n1221456

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

ATLANTA (AP) — Six Atlanta police officers have been charged after a dramatic video showed authorities pulling two young people from a car during protests over the death of George Floyd, a prosecutor said Tuesday.

Fulton County District Attorney Paul Howard announced the charges during a news conference.

“I feel a little safer now that these monsters are off the street and no longer able to terrorize anyone else,” said Messiah Young, who was dragged from the vehicle along with his girlfriend, Taniyah Pilgrim, while they were caught in traffic.

The Saturday night incident first gained attention from video online and on local news. Throughout, the couple can be heard screaming and asking officers what is happening.

Two of the officers, Investigator Ivory Streeter and Investigator Mark Gardner, were fired Sunday.

Anonymous said...



...has been linked to the white nationalist group Identity Evropa, according to a Twitter spokesperson.


LOL.

sure it has alky. sure it has.

according to twitter.

who's "head of site integrity" (LOL) in charge of correcting conservatives says the white house is full o' nazi's.

https://twitter.com/LevineJonathan/status/1265457578215124995

Anonymous said...



Hell of a job, Donnie.
You've managed to bring back the 1918 Pandemic, 1929 Depression & 1968 Race Riots at the same time



helluva job alky.

still managing to plagiarize. from twitter this time.

Anonymous said...



yes, let's put this dumb fuck in the white house...


: "Instead of standing there and teaching a cop when there's an unarmed person coming at 'em with a knife or something to shoot 'em in the leg instead of the heart is a very different thing." —Joe Biden, not only contradicting good self-defense practice but mind-numbingly suggesting that a person with a knife is "unarmed"


("Anyone who has been trained in police work or the military could tell you: Firing a gun is always potentially deadly force. You shoot for center mass, to kill, or you don't shoot at all. If you're not prepared to kill someone, you should not even point a loaded gun at them, much less fire it. If you don't have grounds to shoot to kill, you don't have grounds to shoot." —Dan McLaughlin)



joey stinkfingers has crossed over into "alky stupid" territory.


Commonsense said...

List of People giving material support to terrorist.

Justin Timberlake
Chelsea Clinton
13 members of the Biden Presidential campaign staff.

Feel free to add.

Anonymous said...

add:
NY Mayor Daughter.

Anonymous said...

Gov. of New York Trashed The BY Mayor and every single COP of the N.Y. PD.

Anonymous said...

4 Murdered Cops, 100's Injuries.

Great Job Socialist Democrats.

Anonymous said...




Democrat Engel asked Bronx Borough President Ruben Diaz Jr. if he could speak at a press conference to discuss the George Floyd riots.

Engel was caught on a hot mic saying TWICE, “If I didn’t have a primary, I wouldn’t care.”



https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/06/busted-democrat-rep-engel-caught-hot-mic-asking-turn-speak-george-floyd-presser-didnt-primary-wouldnt-care-video/

Caliphate4vr said...

Nike Releases Commemorative Shoe To Honor Looters

BEAVERTON, OR—Nike has released a commemorative shoe to honor those looting and burning down buildings across the country.

The Nike Loot Force One comes packed with features the company says will help people loot safely and efficiently. From cushioned soles to make sure you make it through shattered windows without getting your feet cut to a detachable swoosh that can be thrown at business owners or police officers like a Batarang, the shoe is the ideal footwear for those looking to incite violent riots and also coincidentally get some free stuff.

"We stand in solidarity with those looting stores and getting free stuff to show how much they care about justice," said a Nike representative. "To that end, we are releasing this $250 pair of shoes some Chinese lady made for 30 cents."

Nike has asked looters, though, to respect Nike stores while wearing the Loot Force Ones. "Please don't steal our shoes while you loot -- let's just say you should 'target' other major corporations."

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Apparently Ch thinks that if someone is "?f'ed up and shouldn't have been taking drugs"--that gives police officers the right to hold him down and asphyxiate him while he begs to be allowed to breathe and live.
Even Ch must have some black friends (doubtful) who would find that strange. If he does, he should run that past them.

--But why not go ahead and add, "especially if he's black", Ch?

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Kentucky police chief fired after shooting kills barbecue restaurant owner

The Guardian
The police chief of Louisville, Kentucky, was fired on Monday after the mayor learned that officers involved in a shooting that killed the popular owner of a barbecue spot failed to activate body cameras during the chaotic scene.

Steve Conrad, chief of the Louisville Metro Police Department was “relieved of his duties” on Monday afternoon.

David McAtee, known for offering meals to police officers, died earlier on Monday while police officers and national guard soldiers were enforcing a curfew amid waves of protests over the killing of George Floyd by police in Minneapolis a week ago – and a previous recent police shooting in Kentucky’s largest city.

Police said they were responding to gunfire from a crowd.

The US attorney said federal authorities will join state police in investigating the fatal shooting.

Louisville Mayor Greg Fischer revealed that authorities lacked body camera video for the investigation just hours after Kentucky’s governor demanded the release of police video.

“This type of institutional failure will not be tolerated,” Fischer said. “Accordingly, I have relieved Steve Conrad of his duties.”

Governor Andy Beshear later said the lack of body camera footage was unacceptable.

“This is the entire reason that we have those cameras,” the Democratic governor said at the state Capitol in Frankfort. “And every other officers’ cameras should be reviewed, and if they captured any part of the scene it ought to be released.”


Beshear authorized state police to independently investigate the shooting. He pledged the probe will be conducted in an “honest and transparent way that will not take months.”

The governor said he had counted on body camera footage to help determine “the truth in a way that spoke for itself, at a time when trust is difficult and people deserve to be able to see and evaluate.”

Deputy Chief Robert Schroeder will step in immediately as chief, Fischer said.

The mayor also said the city’s curfew was being extended until 8 June.

Police did retrieve video from crime center cameras that showed how the shooting unfolded, Schroeder said.

“It is taken from a distance, but it gives an overview of the scene and clearly shows the officers reacting to gunfire,” he said.

Two Louisville officers and two Guard soldiers returned fire, he said. The two officers violated policy by not wearing or activating body cameras, Schroeder said, adding they have been placed on administrative leave.

McAtee, whose YaYa’s BBQ Shack is near where the shooting occurred, was mourned by hundreds of people who returned to the site hours afterward.

Christopher 2X, an anti-violence activist and executive director of the group Game Changers, said McAtee was well-liked.

“I’ve never known him to be aggressive in any kind of way,” he said.

Schroeder agreed that McAtee was friendly to police officers. “Over the years he’s been a good friend to the police officers ... frequently making sure our officers had a good meal on their shifts,” he said.


Last week, before the National Guard was mobilized, seven people were wounded when gunshots erupted during a protest in downtown Louisville. Police said none of the seven, who are recovering, were shot by police. They have not announced any arrests.

Protesters have been demanding justice for Breonna Taylor, a black woman killed in her home in Louisville in March. The 26-year-old EMT was shot eight times by narcotics detectives who knocked down her front door as they attempted to enforce a search warrant. No drugs were found in the home.

After Taylor’s death, the mayor said Louisville police would be required to wear body cameras.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Some typical instances of the kind of justice blacks in this country CANNOT GET.

JAMES'S FUCKING DADDY said...

thebradfordfile™
@thebradfordfile

If Joe Biden knows how to end "systemic racism" in America--how come he didn't tell Obama?

C.H. Truth said...

Apparently Ch thinks that if someone is "?f'ed up and shouldn't have been taking drugs"--that gives police officers the right to hold him down and asphyxiate him while he begs to be allowed to breathe and live.


You know Reverend...

Where in the bible does it tell clergy that it's okay to lie?


Where have I ever stated that it was okay to hold him down for 9 minutes?


Show me where, Reverend...

Or admit you are a liar!!!!



Your problem is that you don't want to admit that George Floyd was not the poster child of love and affection and maybe, just maybe... he was a meth head who got out of control at a store where he was trying to pass a fake $20.


Excuse the fuck out of me...

If I don't believe that one has anything to do with the other.

George Floyd can be a meth head

and the Cop can be a criminal who is likely going to jail.


You just apparently are not smart enough to get this...

or you are just a fucking serial liar!!!

Commonsense said...

For James, I'll go with serial fucking liar.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

Such language.

For some reason, Ch, you seem to think it makes some big difference if you can establish that the victim was in some ways not perfect.

None of the video that we have shows him resisting arrest. There is one strange scene where an officer has him in the backseat of the police car and seems to be struggling with him -- perhaps pummeling him?

Regardless of all that, George Floyd still had the human right to be arrested without that turning into an execution, especially while he was begging to be allowed to breathe and not to be killed.

Honest, decent, truthful Rev. said...

I can hardly believe this. Even the hard line biblical fundamentalist televangelist Pat Robertson is compassionate enough to criticize Trump.
__________

The Washington Post:
Pat Robertson Joins Criticism of Trump

Televangelist Pat Robertson joined the religious leaders criticizing President Trump for his “law and order” response to the nationwide unrest following the death of George Floyd in the custody of Minneapolis police, the Washington Post reports.

Said Robertson:
“It seems like now is the time to say, ‘I understand your pain, I want to comfort you, I think it’s time we love each other. But the president took a different course.”

He added:
“You just don’t do that, Mr. President. It isn’t cool!”

_____________

Actually, Trump only wants to appeal to his base. That's all he cares about. But he seems to have miscalculated this time.