Let's start with the underlying opinions of the nation - according to polling
- Polling - around 50% of the public believes election fraud altered the results of the 2020 election.
- Polling - around 50% of the public believes that the events of Jan 6th constitutes an coup or an insurrection.
So technically the nation is fairly split down the middle on the two main issues surrounding the 2020 election and the Jan 6th rally/protest/riot/insurrection. About half believe that there was very real fraud. The other half believes that this was the most secure election ever. About half believes that Jan 6th was an attempt to overthrow the Government. About half think it was either a protest or a protest turned riot.
Given the pretense that about half the country believes that election fraud altered the results and about 80 million or so believe that pretty strongly, there is good reason to believe that the bulk of the 60,000 so people who came to DC on Jan 6th were there in protest of the certification of the results (that they felt were corrupt). Many attended the actual rally and many others attended other gatherings across the city.
Of those 60,000 only a few thousand started the march to the actual capital. Of those who marched to the capital only a few hundred actually entered the capital ground and only a subset of those entered the building. Of those who entered the building only a small portion of those actually did anything other than walk through.
So over the next several months the| Biden DOJ and FBI has gone through all of the video that they could find and arrested everyone they could identify who was in the Capitol building or even on the Capitol grounds. To date (nearly 19 months later) that number has stalled out at around 850 people.
850 people arrested. Out of tens of thousands.
Of those 850 or so the main charges are entering a restricted building, Disorderly Conduct (generally added on top of the entering a restricted building), or Parading (carrying a sign outside of the building - but on the grounds). You can go through the charges and see there appears to be less than 300 total charges that include something violent. But violent in this case can include something as subtle as shoving or pushing.
Only 250-300 or so charged with a violent crime. Many for pushing or shoving.
Meanwhile the recent Crimson Harvard study concluded that over 90% of those arrested, charged, and punished over the events of Jan 6th were there to simply protest the results. Less than 10% said they were there to actually take any actions to prevent the certification of the votes. That is not 10% of the 60,000. That is less than 10% of the 415 or so who have plead out or were convicted and were interviewed for the Crimson Harvard study..
IOW... the actual number of people there to execute the insurrection was about three dozen.
So you start with 60,000 people and at the end of the day you have about 250-300 people charged with a violent act (many only charged with pushing or shoving) and only about three dozen who had any intention of anything remotely resembling a coup or insurrection.
However, you do have judges sentencing people who were just carrying signs to jail time. You have judges demanding that defendants disavow their belief that there was election fraud. You have had three suicides from people who were sentenced to as many as three years for something an Antifa member would not even get a second glance for doing.
So here is my question. What "real" evidence is there that there was a coup or insurrection? They can overcharge people all they want. They oversentence them all they want. That doesn't change the fact that out of 60,000 people who rode into town, they have found a grand whopping total of about three dozen who were there to do what the media and Democrats demand was driving all 60,000.
Three dozen people does not make an insurrection or a coup. Saying such is ridiculous. Demanding that the former President need to be charges for some sort of assist in planning this non-coup coup is even more ridiculous.
But yet... that is the gaslighting that is being sold. We have millions who have fallen for it.
38 comments:
It has never happened before and you are the one who has been gaslighted.
The peaceful transfer of power is the fundamental right and you don't recognize it, or you are incapable to thinking outside your political views.
Hey Roger...
Did you read the post?
If so... do you have an actual argument?
Or are you just spewing the same nonsense you have spewed 1000 times before?
Seriously Roger.
I just gave you the numbers as they exist.
No opinion. No speculation. No grasping for straws.
Just
The
Numbers
(oh and I get them from the same website you have cited before)
60,000 people in town
10,000's attend the rally in person
a few 1000 march to the capitol
850 arrested
250 arrested for violence
three dozen who say there were there for a coup
What is it that you disagree with?
Are you really arguing that three dozen people could have taken over the United States Government?
Yeah, that's it alky. A couple hundred people were going to overthrow the entirety of the US Government.
All by themselves.
Just. Like. That.
This is why you will NEVER be allowed to have the door code to your psychiatric hospital.
EVER.
Of course I read your irrational diatribe.
IED is ugly
Okay then Roger...
What part do you disagree with?
Calling me names or repeating the "rhetoric" that I have heard 1000 times before is irrelevant.
You know like the ridiculous stupid insane childish argument that because one or two people yelled something like "hang Mike Pence" that 60,000 people all wanted to hang Mike Pence or that someone who wasn't even there (like me) wanted to hang Mike Pence.
No rhetoric.
Prove to us that you have half a brain.
Prove to us that you read my post.
Show me where I am wrong.
And for sake of argument... lets just say that rather than 200-300 or so who were arrested for violence... lets say there was 500-600 arrested for violence...
and instead of three dozen people trying to wage an insurrection and stop the votes from being counted (that would not have mattered anyways) - there were double that... or even 100 people.
Do you seriously believe that 100 people armed with bear spray and flagpoles are going to take over the US Government?
Oh... and it's been 19 months, Roger?
Where is the evidence that Trump was "behind it" as you suggest?
You think that the recent "raid" on Trumps house where they went through Melania's underwear door and cracked open a personal safe and spent hours in Trump office... was needed if there was ANY proof that he was involved?
Wouldn't you think that someone they arrested (850 people) would be able to provide (or otherwise have) the evidence that they were in cahoots with Trump?
It's been 19 months... and all we have is crazy judges sentencing people to jail time for carrying signs and demanding they make a statement in court that Biden won fair and square (like that has any fucking thing to do with the law).
IED is ugly
Lydia sure thought so.
Your psychological projection never takes a day off, does it alky?
Loyalty to one person in political context, history shows how dangerous it is.
We had founding fathers, because we didn't want a kingdom like the British government of that era.
Right now the majority of Republicans are loyal to Donald Trump.
He is not the King but millions of Republicans treat him like he is the King
So Roger...
By your last comment...
I guess we can assume that you agree with everything I wrote and cannot take issue with any of the numbers.
I am curious why you believe we should ignore the numbers and evidence and rather just listen to the media and political rhetoric?
Can you explain why facts and evidence is not as important as what Pelosi or Cheney tells you?
Blogger Coldheartedtruth Teller said...
Loyalty to one person in political context, history shows how dangerous it is.
Says the 'man' who spent 8 long years with 0linsky's scrotum nestled comfortably on his chin.
His own website.
Users on Trump's Truth Social platform threatened FBI agents after the raid on his Mar-a-Lago home. But Truth Social — which touted its lenient content policies — would work with law enforcement if needed.In a help section of the site, the platform notes it would comply with court orders to turn over user information.
Donald Trump's Truth Social — a social media platform designed to be a "inviting, nonpartisan 'Big Tent' of ideas" — was a hotbed of outrage after FBI agents searched the former president's Mar-a-Lago home last week.
Some users made threats against the FBI or vowed that a "war" was beginning. But anonymous posts won't offer much protection against possible prosecution.
According to the site's fine print, Truth Social will turn over user information in compliance with law enforcement — just like other social media sites.
In its "guidelines for law enforcement," Truth Social states that it complies with court orders to reveal user information, restrict access to accounts, or preserve posts.
The site also works with law enforcement on "emergency requests," where they quickly turn over user information when it appears there's an immediate threat.
"If we receive information that provides us with a good faith belief that there is an exigent emergency involving a danger of death or serious physical injury to a person, we may provide any available information necessary to prevent that harm," the website states.
Truth Social didn't respond to multiple requests by Insider for comment.
Threats of "civil war," and violence against the FBI increased on sites like Truth Social after the agency's raid of Trump's Mar-a-Lago home.
Ricky Schiffer, the man who authorities said tried to breach an FBI office in Cincinnati before being shot and killed by police on Friday, had apparently posted violent messages on Truth Social and urged others to kill federal agents.
Truth Social's law enforcement policies are in line with the rules of other mainstream social media sites, such as Twitter and Facebook.
Both have dedicated departments for handling requests from law enforcement.
Barbara McQuade, a former federal prosecutor, told Insider that social media companies must comply with court orders to turn over user information, including private information like IP addresses or linked email accounts.
"If they get a court order, there's not much they can do about it," McQuade said.
A Pennsylvania man was arrested for posts he made threatening FBI agents on Gab, another social media site that markets itself to users seeking less content moderation.
The website turned over his user information, including his IP address, which led agents to him.
Scott he is very dangerous
I'm sorry for bothering you with this. Of course I read the mathematic and percentage rate.
But you used it to excuse the insurrection on January 6th in 2021 a day that will go down as the most dangerous thing in our history.
Talking to you is like talking to my roommate Mark Shipper has IED and he is completely irrational.
Get help to delay for IED. They can slow it down but it is incurable.
KD,
This is an outstanding post:
rrbAugust 16, 2022 at 11:56 AM
If they get control over the Congress and the White House in 2024, the American dream will die.
So... your idea of the 'American Dream' is a police state with an FBI that has become the DNC's STASI, and 87,000 ARMED IRS agents to harass, intimidate, and confiscate the hard-earned wealth of average middle class Americans.
An 'American Dream' where BLM has legitimacy after fleecing the unsuspecting of over $90 MILLION.
An 'American Dream' where children are taught to overtly HATE via the teaching of CRT.
And an 'American Dream' where elementary school children are brutally scarred for life through trans surgery that would make Dr. Josef Mengele proud, or where little kids are groomed by those sicko's who would sexually harm, molest or exploit them for their own sick and twisted pleasure.
If we are 50/50 divided in our opinions, this will need to be decided by the Department of Justice and by the American judiciary, the courts.
Did Trump illegally in numerous ways and at numerous times attempt illegally to interfere with the correct tallying of votes in the states, and did he finally on January the sixth send citizens, some of whom he knew to be armed, to the Capitol in an illegal attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power?
This must all be decided by the courts along with the numerous other illegalities Trunp is accused of.
Georgia is on my mind Scott.
They can charge them with that crime — even if it’s Donald Trump.
“Georgia has a law that prohibits criminal solicitation to commit election fraud [as well as] a racketeering statute in Georgia which is broader than federal racketeering law,” Hallerman said. This creates opportunities for Georgia prosecutors to pursue indictments that would not be possible under federal statutes.
In particular, Trump’s infamous phone call to Raffensperger could be considered solicitation to commit fraud and the state’s racketeering statute could broadly encompass Trump’s coordinated efforts to overturn the 2020 election.
Let us say that Trump is legally charged with robbing a bank, and the American people are divided 50/50 on whether he did that or not.
We don't get the American people to vote on that.
We get the courts to adjudicate that.
Cut the crap. There’s absolutely no question that the former president has been issuing threats since last week when federal agents searched his Florida home for secret government documents.
There’s no question that the Republicans have joined the effort with lightning-bolt rhetoric that makes political violence seem like a legitimate option after running out of all other legitimate options.
There’s no question that this rhetorical bile and grume is being swallowed whole by subterranean paramilitaries who are heavily armed thanks to Republicans gun policy and who have been prepared to accelerate an insurgency that’s been underway for many years.
Reverend....
I think you miss the entire point.
If there was no "insurrection" then Trump could not have been responsible for an insurrection. The 50/50 aside... that just goes to state of mind and the ridiculous notion that the DOJ can "PROVE" beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump is not part of the 50% who believes that the election was fraudulent.
Again....
Reality is simple.
There were about 3 dozen or so people in Washington D.C. with the intention of preventing the counts or otherwise mounting some sort of violent overthrow.
There appears to have been another 200-300 or so who were just there to protest the results and got caught up in some form of violence... many being charged for literally just pushing and shoving...
The leave the what is left over of the overall 850 people charges as being charged with non-violent crimes. And that leaves the other tens of thousands who were no violent, did not break the law, and did not get involved in anything nefarious.
Simply protesting something 50% of the public believes IS NOT A CRIME. For a judge to demand that someone make some sort of statement on the subject should have that judge disbarred from anything legal. Should not be working as a law clerk.
But hey I get it Reverend.
This is called "cognitive dissonance"
What I am telling you is the factual truth. It will go in one ear and out the other because your mind cannot process something that goes against your hard fast gas lighted set in stone position that it was a "coup" to overthrow the Government...
apparently by about three dozen people.
Ricky Schiffer, the man who authorities said tried to breach an FBI office in Cincinnati before being shot and killed by police on Friday, had apparently posted violent messages on Truth Social and urged others to kill federal agents.
Lil Ricky had a lot of nerve.
Federal agents are allowed to murder the citizenry with impunity and without consequence, but NOT the other way around. See: Babbitt, Ashli
I for one can't fucking wait until we get 87,000 ARMED IRS agents directed to use DEADLY FORCE out on the streets. That is going to be fucking LIT. Make a clerical error on your 1040-EZ? First the audit, then some government stooge blows you away. They have to do SOMETHING with the FIVE MILLION ROUNDS of ammunition they've purchased.
It's interesting. The left continues to insist that they do not want a hot civil war, yet every step they are taking marches us ever closer to a hot civil war.
It's almost like they're knowingly lying or something.
Weird.
Reality is simple.
There were about 3 dozen or so people in Washington D.C. with the intention of preventing the counts or otherwise mounting some sort of violent overthrow.
There appears to have been another 200-300 or so who were just there t
BWAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! Simplistic and naive bullshit, lil scotty....your opinion of counts again is most amusing and I doubt you have the ballz of Liz to post this.......LOLOLOLOLOL
The bigger problem is simple...
Within the political bubble of Roger and the Reverend (people who refuse to read anything other that crazy liberals while continuously spamming the thread with that nonsense)...
Nobody believes that there was election fraud.
Every accepts that Jan 6th was an coup or insurrection.
but when pressed on the point, they immediately go into a fetal position, close their eyes and ears and sing la la la la la to drown out everything they do not want to hear.
The percentage of the people at the Jan 6th rally who where there for a coup or insurrection in the mind of Roger and the Reverend is about 99%.
The reality is that 99.94 percent of the people there had nothing to do with any insurrection. There could literally fit the entire cast of people arrested that claimed they wanted a coup or insurrection (or even wanted to stop the counting of the votes) in my living room. It might a bit cramped... but they would fit.
But you used it to excuse the insurrection on January 6th in 2021 a day that will go down as the most dangerous thing in our history.
And there’s the reason you will never ever breathe fresh air again, stale urine smell will waft through your nostrils the rest of your life
Let me tell you something, Ch.
Keep your eyes on Georgia.
THERE'S where, in additin to everything else, Trump's getting into deeper and deeper doodoo.
And that will be decided by our legal system, not by opinions.
Harsh reality.
Cold hearted truth.
Nobody believes that there was election fraud.
Every accepts that Jan 6th was an coup or insurrection.
Only extremists who have lost their mind over trump believes he won with out a shred of truth and those who actually think for themselves not only accepts the fact 1-6 was not a good people in the capital touring the site!!!!!! Keep up your forced rationale as the likes of Walker and the GOP are losing the week!!!!!!
The reality is that 99.94 percent of the people there had nothing to do with any insurrection
The reality is that you are full of shit......sorry sport, but opinions like yours do not constitute reality to all!!!!
And there’s the reason you will never ever breathe fresh air again, stale urine smell will waft through your nostrils the rest of your life
His quarterly psychiatric evaluations must be a laugh riot. But it's Shipper who's nuts.
BWAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! Simplistic and naive bullshit, lil scotty....your opinion of counts again is most amusing and I doubt you have the ballz of Liz to post this.......LOLOLOLOLOL
Occasionally I have to post something from Denny just to remind people how much pure stupid he adds to the blog!
Let me tell you something, Ch.
Well there you go...
Once again the Reverend NEVER listens NEVER responds NEVER has a valid argument to back the rhetoric.
But he could win the gold medal in olympics if they introduced the "change the subject when you are losing a debate" event.
Giuliani has been told that he's a target.
Keep your eyes on Georgia, Ch.
In a million years you will not get 12 jurist to find Trump guilty of a crime in Georgia...
Oh... if you can actually convince the Georgia court system that Trump can be tried locally under a county prosecutor for what would be a hypothetical state crime. This DA will likely have to (like it or not) refer her findings to the AG of the state. I don't see how this prosecutor believes she will ultimately have the authority (with a GJ that cannot offer an indictment) to bring charges (without an indictment).
But it does just go to show how out of their skin, wildly crazy scared the left is that Trump will run in 2016....
Worse yet, the candidate who is currently leading the Democratic polling for the 2024 nomination?
is.....
drumroll please.....
Harris!!!!
Trump leads Harris in 2024 RCP polling by 7 points!!!!!
As Denny would write: Bwahahahahahahahawwhhhahwhaa
The reality is that you are full of shit......sorry sport, but opinions like yours do not constitute reality to all!!!!
Sorry Denny....
I pushed that "math" stuff on you again. I know that is a bit much for your feeble mind to handle.
I will save you the trouble of your response:
Bwaaaawaaabwaa!
Right?
A president trying to get, even force, state officials to perform illegal falsifications of a state election that would impact a federal election is not prosecutable by the federal as well as the state government?
Guys like John Bolton talk about how difficult it is to get him to pay attention to highly complicated and technical elements in nuclear power 🔋
He is actually not qualified to be the most powerful man on earth
Outside of his loyalists, they were very concerned about him.
His niece was 100% correct
A president trying to get, even force, state officials to perform illegal falsifications of a state election
Well that would have to be a real thing, Reverend...
So far we have a phone call where apparently you have only heard edited portions of it. The entire phone call is not that nefarious. Nor is the extremely legal by the books set of alternate electors.
McCarthy has an article about that today in fact. He explains how the Georgia law actually set up the idea of creating alternate elections if there is a challenge to the state.
You can read if you would like:
Part of this effort, which is also at the center of the Justice Department’s federal criminal investigation, is the so-called fake-electors plot. As a part of that plot, a group of prominent Georgian Trump supporters convened in December 2020 as if they were an alternative slate of electors, intending to cast the state’s 16 electoral votes for Trump. While the matter is still under investigation, the prosecutor’s assessment of the evidence is dubious and, shall we say, evolving.
The contingent electors were assembled out of a legal concern that, if the election were lawfully overturned, Georgia’s electoral votes could not be counted for Trump unless they had been cast by December 14, the day the Electoral College met. They executed provisional electoral ballots and produced a certificate that even Willis has conceded was “unofficial.” This, the electors’ lawyers point out, is consistent with what’s supposed to happen under Georgia law if an election is still being contested in court when a deadline for certifying the election occurs. The electors maintain that their actions were never meant to have any legal force unless the courts or the legislature invalidated Biden’s victory, which never came close to happening.
This exculpatory explanation makes sense. It is thus not surprising that Willis’s prosecutors initially advised the would-be Trump electors that they were regarded as mere witnesses. As a result, some of them agreed to sit for informal interviews, beginning in April 2022. Then, however, June rolled around. That’s when the House January 6 committee geared up and began its nationally televised presentations, while the Democratic base complained that the Biden Justice Department was not being aggressive enough in the quest to nail Trump for a Capitol riot-related crime.
Suddenly, on June 1, Willis’s prosecutors issued grand-jury subpoenas to the contingent electors. This was strange, since the prosecutors had already been getting voluntary cooperation from the subpoenaed individuals. But it did advance the narrative that the Georgia activities highlighted by the committee were the subject of a very active state criminal investigation.
McCarthy points out that there has been no actual new evidence to justify the move to turn witnesses into "targets" other than this prosecutor (who has been barred from investigating one of the electors because she was found to have given campaign donations to his political opponent - conflict of interest) seems to be playing along with the Jan 6th commission. Specifically after the "Hutchinson testimony".
Giuliani has also been labeled as just a witness but without any new evidence or any explanation is now a "Target".
Again... as McCarthy points out... the entire logic of the investigation is dubious and seems to ignore that technically nothing they did on it's own (from the phone call to the alternate electors) is actually against any specific law.
Racketeering? An excuse. A hail mary.
But McCarthy's point is he believes that the Raid on Trump was mostly because the Feds are looking for Jan 6th information. He believes the raid was entirely under false pretenses. He believes that that Garland doesn't want to look like someone else (Fani Willis) is being more aggressive going after Trump and may be desperately looking for some smoking gun that would justify ramping up the Federal side of things.
That being said... he (among many others) have stated that they would not be surprised if the raid ended up just "recovering" the documents in question and that nothing else will ever come of it.
Other than more political fallout.
Hey Roger...
I am still waiting for you to actually dispute anything... just one thing I wrote that was incorrect.
Not sure why you expect me to publish comments where you just call me names without explaining exactly why you feel my post was anything other than legitimate.
Blogger C.H. Truth said...
Hey Roger...
I am still waiting for you to actually dispute anything... just one thing I wrote that was incorrect.
Not sure why you expect me to publish comments where you just call me names without explaining exactly why you feel my post was anything other than legitimate.
Here’s a thought that will send these 2 sprawling for the fainting couch
The DOJ by saying items were improperly collected has also inadvertently admittedly stated that its evidence collection process was tainted and conducted improperly. Thus placing all collected items suspect and challengable for court use.
No court in hell allows this forward..
LOL
Trump wins again and he’s going to dismantle the leviathan
Make DeSantis your veep announce you’ll retire after 2 years and it’ll be a shellacking worse than Reagan/Mondale
"Blogger C.H. Truth said...
Hey Roger...
I am still waiting for you to actually dispute anything... just one thing I wrote that was incorrect"
Roger simply can't, he is always out worked,out reasoned and out classed.
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