Monday, September 11, 2017

You can't make this stuff up...

So here in Minnesota, we have what appears to be somewhat of a constitutional crisis. In a bitter budget battle, the Minnesota GOP (which holds majorities in both the House and Senate) passed a series of spending bills that Governor Dayton was not very fond of.

Now in Minnesota, the Governor has line item veto capabilities. So it's not unusual for the legislation to tie one thing to another, in order to make it more difficult for the Governor to veto specific parts of the budget. This is generally accepted at the legislative level, because without this strategy, the efforts of the two Parties in Congress to make concessions and come to agreements would be rendered moot. Otherwise whichever side held the Governorship, could simply agree to whatever it was that the other side wanted, knowing full well that the Governor would just line item everything out that they didn't actually want. The Governorship would become all that mattered.

So in this case, a new tax bill (desired by the GOP and eventually agreed to by the DFL for other consessions) was tied directly to the funding of the Minnesota Department of Revenue (where my dear old dad used to work as an auditor). So if Mark Dayton wanted to veto the new tax bill, he would risk the funding of the Department of Revenue. So of course, Governor Dayton did what any "reasonable Governor" would do in this situation.

He allowed that bill to become law without his signature, and line item vetoed out the funding for the entire legislative branch.

Yes, you read that correctly. He eliminated the legislative branch with a line item veto.

This came with demands that he would allow a special session to reinstate their funding, but only if they agreed to eliminate the new tax bill that he was unhappy with. You can have your budget or you can have a legislative branch, but you can't have both.

Now quite obviously the Minnesota constitution provides the citizens with three branches of the government. Certainly the executive branch could not use a line item veto to eliminate a the legislative branch, because a particular Governor was unhappy with a tax bill. At least one would think. Moreover... like most constitutions,  in Minnesota the appropriates for spending must start with the legislative branch. It would seem that if Dayton were to successfully eliminate the legislative branch, there would be no way to ever actually bring it back to even create a new budget that would bring fund themselves again... meaning our state would probably function on the same 2018 budget indefinitely.

So the legislative branches sued the Governor, and a Judge agreed that it would be unconstitutional for the Governor to eliminate funding for another branch, and ordered the funding back into place. But, as expected, Governor Dayton appealed (requesting an expedited hearing) to the Minnesota Supreme Court where four of the seven Judges were appointed by him. Many observers felt that the Court would almost certainly rule in his favor.

So what happened, was that they did rule in his favor, but they didn't, but they sort of did, but they sort of didn't.  This is what happens when your Judicial branch loses sight of the law, and decides to put politics front and center, even if it twists them into pretzels.

  • They ruled that the line item veto itself was constitutional
  • But they ruled that eliminating the legislative branch was unconstitutional (and you could not use constitutional means to produce an unconstitutional result). 
  • But they ruled that there were "not sure" that the courts had authority to "order" the funding back in place (as the lower court did)... in effect overturning the original ruling (for now).

Then they did what any reasonable State Supreme Court would do. They ordered mediation (in effect reopening negotiations)...  and more briefs to be filed on that specific subject (authority to order funding), just in case the mediation didn't work.

It seems to me that the shortsightedness of this move should be obvious to everyone, regardless of the issues being debated. To suggest that the Governor could line item veto out funding for the legislative branch, would be akin to suggesting that the legislative branch could simply write a budget that eliminated funding for either the Executive or Judicial branch.

This is pure "madness" as they say. Our man-child of a Governor has taken this one way over the top. He is pulling the ultimate play by my rules or I will take my ball and go home gambit. Of course, at the end of the day, what would he do if his bluff was called and the Minnesota legislative branch ceased to be funded?  No more tax increases. No more spending increases. No more state programs. No more new laws of any kind.

Sounds okay to me... but I doubt there is a Democrat anywhere who would like that end result.

42 comments:

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Interesting post. The line item veto to me almost seems like it gives the governor the same power held by the Legislative Branch. At one level at find a kind of amusing but it's not I don't think it's right. The governor cannot eliminate the legislature by one line veto. The Court ruling is kind of ambiguous. No I don't know how I could not support something like this. The governor cannot completely dismantle the legislative branch of government. At the federal level there are many presidents who would like to have had that power.

But the governor cannot assume the powers of the legislature. So like you said it, there is no government in Minnesota right now. This is not right. Of course I haven't looked into the details he has your view might be a little slanted but it at this level it looks really a bad decision on every level.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

The Court ruling did reinstate the legislature but the whole thing is a joke. But not that amusing.

Anonymous said...

45 and 45 1/2 pay respect for those lost on 9-11 and the soldiers.


Left outraged over her choice of shoes.

C.H. Truth said...

Roger

Dayton insists that the "poison pill" that coupled the tax bill with the DOR budget was a "slipped in" without his knowledge. However the facts do not back that up. The so called "poison pill" was in every budget submitted and all of them were submitted within the time periods (that allowed for the required amount of time for review). Granted, they were fairly last minute submissions, but perfectly legal. If the public had allotted time to read and review the proposals before the Governor had to sign them, then obviously he had the same time.

I am guessing that Dayton figured he could gain concessions from the GOP on certain items, and then sort of "get away" with using the line item veto to renege (so to speak). He is getting all too bold in his last term (limited by law). But all of this budget was hashed out between both Parties in Congress and the Governor.


And the "first" ruling by the first Judge did reinstate the funding. The ruling by the MSSC left that up in the air... pending "mediation".

I expect that the GOP will stick to their guns and call the bluff. There is literally no way that Dayton would allow the legislative branch to be defunded (as some conservatives might like the idea of no new spending or no new taxes)... and the MSSC did not "rule out" ordering the funding, just seems hesitant to do so.

Which, of course, may be way more "political" than legal. Either they have the authority or they do not. The fact that they only want to address it if "absolutely necessary" (a direct quote from the ruling)... suggests that they probably would if push came to shove, but would rather not simply rule against the guy who appointed most of them, unless "absolutely necessary".

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Well we both know that the person that appointed them should not make any difference in the ruling on the constitutionality of a law . But we both know that does happen . The judges are supposed to base their rulings strictly on the constitutionality of a law not political philosophy but that doesn't happen as we both know .

This is just me but I don't think even the liberal appointees will allow the governor to basically assume the all the duties of the legislative branch of government.

Encouraged, James said...

Changing the subject:
Nice to have a Miss America with brains.

During one of the onstage interviews, Mund said Trump was wrong to pull the U.S. out of the Paris Climate Accord aimed at combating climate change.

“I do believe it's a bad decision,' she said. “Once we reject that, we take ourselves out of the negotiation table and that's something that we really need to keep in mind.

“There is evidence that climate change is existing. So whether you believe it or not, we need to be at that table, and I think it's just a bad decision on behalf of the United States,” she added.

Amused, James said...

Bannon Plots Primaries Against GOP Incumbents
September 10

President Trump’s closest allies “are planning a slate of primary challenges against Republican senators, potentially undermining the party’s prospects in 2018 and further inflaming tensions between GOP leaders and the White House,” Politico reports.

“The effort is being led by Steve Bannon, Trump’s bomb-throwing former chief strategist who is launching an all-out war against Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and the Republican establishment. Bannon has begun holding private meetings with insurgent challengers, vowing his support. He’s coordinating with conservative mega-donor Robert Mercer, who is prepared to pour millions of dollars into attacks on GOP incumbents. Bannon has also installed a confidant at an outside group that is expected to target Republican lawmakers and push the Trump agenda.”
_________________
With friends like these...

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

https://coldheartedtruthlegacy.blogspot.com/2017/09/we-will-never-forget.html#links

Miss North Dakota won the Miss America contest last night . And she address climate change directly surprisingly for somebody from North Dakota very smart intelligent and very good-looking at the same time not bad at all I hell of a dancer wife and I watch the show and we're both cheering for North Dakota especially me.

I did the link to the legacy blog and never forget never forget that day never never never it is like the Kennedy assassination. One of the days you will never ever ever forget .

I was on my way to work on the 605 freeway and I listening to KFI radio 6:40 AM and they had a report of an airplane flying into the World Trade Center I figured oh my goodness was this and then the second one came along . I knew instantly terrorism and unbelievable how bad it was going to be. I worked at the Kaiser Permanente Pasadena offices at the time and the television was set up in the side and watch the news . This primitive time on the Internet was very weak and I tried to do some emails's to people and then they would not go through. They let us go home and got paid for the day . Glued to the television of course.

C.H. Truth said...

But we both know that does happen . The judges are supposed to base their rulings strictly on the constitutionality of a law not political philosophy but that doesn't happen as we both know .

Bullshit, Roger...

The entire argument of the so called "liberal Justice" is that constitutionality is a subjective and changing ideal... and should follow the whims and desires of whatever modern day politics meets with the fancy of said liberal Justices.

If it was actually "true" that Judges ruled specifically on the constitutionality of each issue... then Judges would rarely disagree, and when they did, it would be "around the edges".

Certainly a Judge would not openly admit that he or she would rule an EO differently based on who wrote it... if they truly were only following the words of the law and the constitution.

A great American patriot named James said...

Bannon Declares War on the GOP
September 11

“Stephen Bannon — President Trump’s former chief strategist who left the White House in August — declared war Sunday against the Republican congressional leadership, called on Gary Cohn, Trump’s top economic adviser, to resign, and outlined his views on issues ranging from immigration to trade,” the Washington Post reports.

“Bannon, in an interview on CBS’s 60 Minutes, accused Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) of ‘trying to nullify the 2016 election.’ … He blamed them for failing to repeal and replace former president Barack Obama’s signature health-care law and made clear that he would use his Breitbart perch to hold Republicans accountable for not helping Trump push through his agenda.””
____________
Sounds like trouble with a capital T.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. — Cara Mund is not worried that she may begin her year-long reign as Miss America by starting a Twitter war with the nation’s Tweeter-In-Chief.

The 23-year-old Miss North Dakota won the crown Sunday night in Atlantic City after saying in an onstage interview that President Donald Trump was wrong to pull the United States out of the Paris climate accord.

Mund topped a field of 51 contestants to win in the New Jersey seaside resort, where most of the 97 Miss Americas have been selected.

She will take the traditional winner’s morning-after dip in the Atlantic City ocean Monday morning outside Boardwalk Hall, where she was crowned.

In one of her onstage interviews, Mund said Trump, a Republican, was wrong to withdraw the U.S. from the climate accord aimed at reducing greenhouse gas emissions that contribute to global warming.

“It’s a bad decision,” she said. “There is evidence that climate change is existing and we need to be at that table.”

Meeting with reporters after winning the crown, Mund stood her ground, saying she wanted first and foremost to give a real answer to the question.

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=2LG2Wc2kFcrrmAG4rqjYDQ&q=The+comment+by+Miss+North+Dakota+on+climate+change&oq=The+comment+by+Miss+North+Dakota+on+climate+change&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.12...12050.31294.0.35712.12.11.1.0.0.0.189.1329.0j10.10.0....0...1.1j4.64.mobile-gws-hp..1.6.724.3..35i39k1j30i10k1.m2AG3KJvfuc

“I wasn’t really afraid if my opinion wasn’t the opinion of my judges,” she said. “Miss America needs to have an opinion and she needs to know what’s happening in the current climate.”

She’s not concerned about any pushback from Trump, who said the Paris accord was a bad deal economically for the United States and who also called global warming a hoax.

Trump had not mentioned Mund or her comment on the Paris accord on Twitter as of early Monday morning.

“He is our president and we need to support him,” Mund said. “I may not agree with all of his opinions, but that doesn’t mean I’m not going to support the president.”

In an interview with The Associated Press before preliminary competition began, Mund, who lives in Bismarck, North Dakota, said her goal is to be the first woman elected governor of her state.

She said she wants to see more women elected to all levels of government.

“It’s important to have a woman’s perspective,” Mund, who had an internship in the U.S. Senate, told the AP. “In health care and on reproductive rights, it’s predominantly men making those decisions.”

I've been to Bismarck North Dakota . I was about 16 years old . That's only 50 years ago !😇

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Bullshit CH

You are claiming that only liberals base their decisions on constitutionality on their political opinion you've got to be kidding me . Give me a break, of course, both sides do that. That's why the president appointed a very conservative justice to the Supreme Court this year because he is a conservative. Originality is a personal opinion, and in the case of Scalia it was absolutely his judgment based on his political philosophy . You know better than that you should be if your objective but you're not anymore . It's sad

C.H. Truth said...

Roger is now getting his political advice from beauty pageant contestants.

Ummmm... probably a step up from his usual sources.

JAMES'S FUCKING DADDY said...

TWITCHY:

POPCORN: Dems get in pissing match after Kamala Harris tweets she agrees with Bernie Sanders

ROFLMFAO !!!

JAMES'S FUCKING DADDY said...

Twitchy:

Ooh that’s gotta HURT: Smug Hillary so sure of 2016 win she bought house for STAFF near WH

ROFLMFAO !!!

JAMES"S FUCKING DADDY said...

Twitchy:

BINGO! Jonah Goldberg demolishes, rebuilds LA Times’ headline about what Berkeley’s ‘bracing’ for

LA TIMES "Berkeley braces for right-wing talk show host Ben Shapiro's visit"

GOLDBERG " FIFY: "Berkeley Braces for Violent Mob Demanding Heckler's Veto of Mainstream Conservative Speaker."

ROFLMFAO !!!

C.H. Truth said...

Originality is a personal opinion, and in the case of Scalia it was absolutely his judgment based on his political philosophy.

By definition, Roger.. originalism is designed to take the constitution and laws and interpret the words as they were written within the context of when and why they written.

In other words, once you establish a legal standard (either constitutional or legal) - that standard is static (not dynamic) and only changes if the law changes or the constitution is amended. By definition, the personal opinions of those making the interpretation are irrelevant.


The follows with the logic that when society changes or when there is a need to change the law, then it's up to the lawmakers (not Judges) to make those changes to the law.

_____

Simply put... a law that "was" considered constitutional for 150 years cannot suddenly "become" unconstitutional... simply because a Judge feels that things are different today.

Does that make sense?

James said...

Roger is now getting his political advice from beauty pageant contestants.

LOL I don't think it would be wise for THE DONALD to get into a twitter war with HER. But bring it on.

Amused, James said...

Meeting with reporters after winning the crown, Mund stood her ground, saying she wanted first and foremost to give a real answer to the question.

C.H. Truth said...

Well James...

People would have to follow her twitter feed. Are you the type who likes to follow the twitter feeds of pretty young women that you don't otherwise know?

Yeah, probably...

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

CH gets his advice from a cartoonist. I will take an educated young woman over and her informed views then a cartoonist. Unbelievable he has become so close minded that just just amazing.#sad

Already amused, James said...

If Trump overrides good advice and goes after her on twitter, and she answers, a lot of people will be paying attention. And laughing.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

I get my opinions out of my own damn mind get over it. You're accusing me of all kinds of this stuff like that when you're full of s***. I can read and other stuff that I make up my own mind I don't let somebody else carry my brain around and tell me what to think like you do with Donald J.Trump

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

At one level up makes sense okay but stop for a second and think. Circumstances change. We didn't even know that the Earth revolve around the Sun at the time some of the people didn't believe it. Remember the Catholic Church what they did well guess what that was originality original thought the government and the country has to change the circumstances as necessary. Not necessarily using a constitutional amendment to change things know we've done this both ways like the decision on the give incorporation of the same power as a person as a human being that's a stupid judgement based on a political philosophy to the right of anything to do with reality.

Loretta said...

"Are you the type who likes to follow the twitter feeds of pretty young women that you don't otherwise know?"

It's what pedophiles do...

Loretta said...

"I get my opinions out of my own damn mind get over it. You're accusing me of all kinds of this stuff like that when you're full of s***. I can read and other stuff that I make up my own mind I don't let somebody else carry my brain around and tell me what to think like you do with Donald J.Trump"

Stand back guys, he's out of control again.

LOL

C.H. Truth said...

Roger...

Why do we elect 535 legislatures to create, update, and repeal laws... and are held accountable by the electorate every two years?

If we just want to outsource legislative decisions to the Judicial branch of the Government, who are not held accountable to any electorate?


The very concept of providing a lifetime appointment for a Judge was that they could remain independent of the whims and desires of a changing society, and stick to calling balls and strikes (regardless of the popularity of those decisions).

If we really want our Judges being the ones who get to decide when laws change or when they should be repealed... then we should probably put them up for election, huh?

Or just get rid of the legislative branch all together... as you seem to be arguing that both branches (legislative and judicial) are responsible for the same thing. That would be a silly waste of 1/3 of our Government functions... wouldn't it?

Anonymous said...

Blogger C.H. Truth said...
Roger is now getting his political advice from beauty pageant contestants.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


a modest improvement over kevin drum at mommy jones.

Laughing loudly, James said...

Miss America is too old for pedophiles.

"Lorretta" is getting softer and softer in the brain.

Anonymous said...

Originality is a personal opinion, and in the case of Scalia it was absolutely his judgment based on his political philosophy .
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


how fucking stupid was this remark?

this fucking stupid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrSUe_m19FY


James said...

Rat can't speak without propping himself up on f word crutches.

Loretta said...

"Miss America is too old for pedophiles."

James Boswell would know...

Loretta said...

"Rat can't speak without propping himself up on f word crutches."

Says the obnoxious spammer.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

https://www.facebook.com/pages/La-Puente-A-A-Center/113418775357570

Anonymous said...

CHT, Jan likes little boyd.

Anonymous said...

HB, is your bro- mane with 45 over?

Anonymous said...

Like clock work James spams this the adult side, when the hospice side was design for low IQ gutter dwellers like opie, jane and alky.

Anonymous said...

Blogger Roger Amick said...
https://www.facebook.com/pages/La-Puente-A-A-Center/113418775357570
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


hey alky, i heard a very funny and clever name for facebook the other day. credit goes to jonah goldberg, but the inspiration could easily come from you...

"satan's urinal"


Amused, James said...


Some here say I like little girls.
Some here say I like little boys.
Some here have even said I like little animals.

I know I like Miss America, her intelligence as well as her looks.
;-)

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Some people behind the President acceptance of this is amazing.

Arguing that there are terrorist sympathizers in the United States, Donald Trump says he saw "thousands" of New Jerseyans celebrating after the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001.

"I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down," the Republican presidential candidate said at a Nov. 21 rally in Birmingham, Ala. "And I watched in Jersey City, N.J., where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering."

The next day, ABC This Week host George Stephanopoulos asked Trump if he misspoke, noting that "the police say that didn't happen."

Trump -- who has said he was in his Manhattan apartment the morning of the attack -- doubled down.

"It was on television. I saw it," Trump said. "It was well covered at the time, George. Now, I know they don't like to talk about it, but it was well covered at the time. There were people over in New Jersey that were watching it, a heavy Arab population, that were cheering as the buildings came down. Not good."

We looked back at the record to see what we could find about American Muslim celebrations in New Jersey on 9/11. While we found widely broadcast video of people in the Palestinian territories celebrating, we found no evidence to back up Trump’s description of events on American soil.

Urban myth

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...


Polls
ArrowQuick Poll/Map LinksFind Any Poll
Try 'Clinton,' or 'Trump'

President Trump Job Approval
Job Approval on Economy | Job Approval on Foreign Policy | Congressional Job Approval | Direction of the Country
Polling Data
Poll Date Sample
Approve
Disapprove
Spread
RCP Average 8/16 - 9/10 -- 39.7 56.1 -16.4
Gallup 9/8 - 9/10 1500 A 38 57 -19
Rasmussen Lies 9/6 - 9/10 1500 LV 44 55 -11
Economist/YouGov9/3 - 9/5 1309 RV 42 54 -12
Reuters/Ipsos 9/1 - 9/5 1672 A 40 57 -17
FOX News 8/27 - 8/29 1006 RV 41 55 -14
IBD/TIPP 8/23 - 8/31 905 A 38 57 -19
Quinnipiac 8/17 - 8/22 1514 RV 35 59 -24
PPP (D) 8/18 - 8/21 887 RV 40 53 -13
ABC 8/16 - 8/20 RV 39 58 -19
-15.4 Average

Anonymous said...




Kerik: Trump Correct, New York Area Muslims Were Celebrating After 9/11

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/12/02/kerik_trump_correct_new_york_area_muslims_were_celebrating_after_911.html