Sunday, April 21, 2019

Sore loser WP comes back to gloat!

Bottom line: Declares that he is way too stubborn to let this go! 

After nearly 28 days of waiting, our resident conservative turned liberal came back to "gloat" about the Mueller report, just as he had promised so many times. The only problem was that WP wasn't really coming back to gloat, but to complain.
We see evidence of crimes, you think it "exonerates" Trump - I don't see how that is any different than from before the report. But rest assured, there are going to be public hearings and investigations will continue for the duration. It's never going away, and America is not ever going to accept Barr/Trump's version of the conclusions.
To be perfectly clear, WP was always in the camp that Mueller would uncover a grand conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Putin to illegally steal the election. Much like Schiff and others, he also believed that "what we saw in plain sight" was already enough to charge people within the Trump inner circle. To the degree that these two separate (but related) beliefs were wrong, they have nothing to do with any Barr/Trump "version" of conclusions.

It was Mueller and his report that offered that they never uncovered evidence of a single American who could be declared to have been working for, with, or in cahoots with the Russians regarding anything having to do with the election.

Not one American. Period. End of story.

Not only does Mueller establish this in volume I - but he repeats the broad lack of crime (specifically regarding Trump) in volume II when he talks about the President's intent.
Second , unlike cases in which a subject engages in obstruction of justice to cover up a crime , the evidence we obtained did not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference. Although the obstruction statutes do not require proof of such a crime, the absence of that evidence affects the analysis of the President's intent and requires consideration of other possible motives for his conduct.
So the fact that the President was not found to have committed any criminal acts within the scope of the 2016 election is well established by Mueller himself.  While WP argues that it's still just a matter of opinion (I don't see how that is any different than from before the report), isn't the entire concept of spending 22 months and 30 million dollars to settle this argument?

Before the report, we didn't know what Mueller was going to find. WP was in the camp that Mueller would frogmarch members of Trumps inner circle, including his family, and quite possibly the President himself. That didn't happen. It's no longer a matter of opinion. That makes him wrong. It also places him in the minority of people who still believe there is evidence of conspiracy.

Now, unfortunately, WP has fallen hook, line, and sinker for the "revised" version of liberal talking points memo. They would like to ignore the question of whether or not there was collusion, conspiracy, or coordination, and focus on whether the very investigation itself put enough pressure on enough people to make them commit enough process crimes to call it a win. As many people point out, you don't have volume II without volume I, and volume I shows that the underlying investigation was every bit the witch hunt that critics suggested.

So WP, like others, declares that the President committed crimes of obstruction (which of course is different than pre-investigation allegations of criminal actions during the campaign). You cannot investigate someone because you believe that they might obstruct the investigation. So to the degree that anyone who alleged criminal actions relating to the 2016 election can somehow declare a minor victory because there are new allegations (but no recommended charges) that obstruction was committed seems more than a bit illogical and petty.

But this is where WP is not going to "accept" the Barr/Trump version of events. Like most liberals too stubborn to let this go, he is not just moving the goalposts, but he is moving the entire field. But even allowing for the entire subject to be changed (as if the entire Russian collusion narrative no longer matters), the fact still remains that Mueller did not go so far as to suggest that he would charge the President, in spite having all the authority to do so. Ken Starr certainly suggested in his report that President Clinton committed perjury during Grand Jury questioning, witness tampering, and obstruction.

Furthermore WPs attacks on McCarthy, Dershowitz fall well short. First and foremost their viewpoints are also the viewpoints of the Department of Justice. The Attorney General and the Deputy Attorney General (who supervised the probe) both disagree as a "matter of law" that the events put forth in the report could be seen as obstruction. Furthermore, even giving Mueller and his team the benefit of the doubt on the subject of the law, they still conclude that there isn't sufficient evidence of corrupt intent to even make a charge if they agreed it was a crime to begin with.

That's a pretty harsh assessment of volume II of the report, offered by ranking members of the Department of Justice, with the assistance of many others in the DOJ. But that is what happens when none of your potential charges are anything anyone has ever been charged with before. That's what happens when you attempt to rewrite the laws regarding obstruction on the fly, because you desperately want to get someone.

Are there still disagreements and different "opinions" regarding this? Sure, but if we are not willing to take the viewpoint of the Department of Justice, then why have a Department of Justice at all. Why not have criminal trials on cable news, and allow the legal pundits to declare innocence or guilt?

Make no mistake, there are almost no legal experts outside of liberal media analysts (such as Jeffrey Toobin) who believe these obstruction charges are valid. I have combed most of the nonpartisan legal blogs and legal websites I frequent, and it's pretty consistent that they agree legally with Barr and the DOJ as a matter of fundamental law.

More to the point, every legal expert arguing that these events constitute obstruction, were the same ones who argued that the actions we all saw in plain sight would also be criminal. That should tell us something about the so called expertise of media legal analysts. They are not interested in being correct, but rather interested in telling people what they want to hear.

Bottom line: Toobin and gang were wrong all along. McCarthy and Dershowitz were correct all along. Just as WP was wrong all along and I was correct all along.

24 comments:

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

You are a classic example of a conservative who has abandoned everything you ever stood for on the day after Trump was elected.

Some conservatives have principles.

You do not.

Commonsense said...

In other words Roger has no argument in rebuttal.

anonymous said...

WP 1 LIL SCOTTY MINUS 20 !!!!!!!

You lost handily and completely understand WP's chagrin......dumb fucks like you and cramps.....BWAAAAAAAAAAA

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Oh I have spent many hours showing that his evaluation of the investigation and this irresponsible President. But he never actually looks at it from outside his closed mind.

Quite a few Republicans are saying that he is an embarrassment to the party and the country.

But he's so deep into the conspiracy theory, that he can't see reality.

Commonsense said...

But he's so deep into the conspiracy theory, that he can't see reality.

Now this is a textbook definition of psychological projection.

Anonymous said...




In other words Roger has no argument in rebuttal.


has he ever?



Now this is a textbook definition of psychological projection.


that combined with invincible ignorance, never takes a day off.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

Dennis, these people who attack me, are classic examples of what I have been saying for years now.

wp left because CH lost his ability to see outside of his conspiracy theoretical blindness. rrb and Mensa have the same condition.

Commonsense said...

wp left because CH lost his ability to see outside of his conspiracy theoretical blindness. rrb and Mensa have the same condition.

God you are so lost in the wilderness of mirrors. I can almost see you driving a taxi with a tin foil hat on.

Coldheartedtruth Teller said...

“There’s nothing wrong with taking information from Russians.”

Giuliani

While accepting foreign campaign help is illegal, Mueller said in his redacted final report released Thursday that he did not charge Donald Trump Jr. or others on the Trump campaign for seeking Russian help — in the form of a meeting they took during the campaign at Trump Tower with several Russians they believed had dirt on Hillary Clinton — because there wasn’t sufficient evidence to establish the Trump officials knew they were breaking the law.

anonymous said...


Now this is a textbook definition of psychological projection.

Which is you defending the slurper in chief and his lies.....complete projection and lacking the ability to think for ones self.....see menstral and his idiocy.....LOLOLOLOL

Anonymous said...



because there wasn’t sufficient evidence to establish the Trump officials knew they were breaking the law.

yet you applauded comey's decision not to prosecute hillary on actual crimes committed because he said she lacked intent.

your hypocrisy is staggering alky.

C.H. Truth said...

“There’s nothing wrong with taking information from Russians.”

Well if there was, then Steele would be under arrest, as would every one associated with hiring him.

Remember Roger...

Your the one who claimed that foreign agents going to Russia to dig up dirt on political opponents is perfectly legal and known as "opposition research".

So please clarify?

Information from Russian sources?

Illegal? (in which case Steele, Fusion, Clinton, all need to be arrested)

Legal? (in which case it's just opposition research)

C.H. Truth said...

wp left because CH lost his ability to see outside of his conspiracy theoretical blindness. rrb and Mensa have the same condition.

Did it escape your attention that WP was dead wrong about Trump/Russia collusion conspiracy? That he demanded he would come back when Mueller frog marched out Trump's inner circle and gloat about it?

Well the investigation is over. Nobody was frogmarched, and WP isn't gloating.

C.H. Truth said...

Btw Roger...

A while back you called me batshit crazy or something to those regards when I suggested that the Steele Dossier was likely "misinformation" provide by Russians to Steele to throw intelligence off and to sow discord!

Now the exact same thing is being reported by the NYTimes regarding the Steel Dossier likely being part of a disinformation campaign by the Russians.

anonymous said...

Once again, Lil Scotty can't keep his facts straight......let alone cornect

Headline from the NYT's

Tech Firm in Steele Dossier May Have Been Used by Russian Spies NOT DISINFORMATION !!!!!!!! you posted

Gee nothing close to what you posted you fucking idiot....!!!!! Your ability to read anything correctly especially after your idiocy about uninsured which you had trouble reading correctly sure makes everything in your posts is complete BS!!!!

By Matthew Rosenberg
March 14, 2019

WASHINGTON — Aleksej Gubarev is a Russian technology entrepreneur who runs companies in Europe and the United States that provide cut-rate internet service. But he is best known for his appearance in 2016 in a dossier that purported to detail Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election — and the Trump campaign’s complicity.

Mr. Gubarev’s companies, the dossier claimed, used “botnets and porn traffic to transmit viruses, plant bugs, steal data and conduct ‘altering operations’ against the Democratic Party leadership.”

On Thursday, new evidence emerged that indicated that internet service providers owned by Mr. Gubarev appear to have been used to do just that: A report by a former F.B.I. cyberexpert unsealed in a federal court in Miami found evidence that suggests Russian agents used networks operated by Mr. Gubarev to start their hacking operation during the 2016 presidential campaign.

[Read the report here.]

His networks also appear to have been regularly used by cybercriminals and Russian agents to conduct other attacks, such as an assault on Ukraine’s power grid in 2015, the report found.

C.H. Truth said...

That's a different article Denny...

C.H. Truth said...

Try this one Denny...

Daniel Hoffman, a former C.I.A. officer who served in Moscow, said he had long suspected the dossier was contaminated by Russian fabrications. The goal, he said, would be to deepen American divisions and blur the line between truth and falsehood.

“How many times have hearings on Capitol Hill used information from the dossier?” Mr. Hoffman said. “How much damage has it already caused?”


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/19/us/politics/steele-dossier-mueller-report.html

anonymous said...

Daniel Hoffman, a former C.I.A. officer who served in Moscow,

More speculation from another source you pray is correct and again proves nothing!!!! BWAAAAAAAAA!!!! Fucking idiot

Commonsense said...

Invincible ignorance is how Dennis rolls.

anonymous said...

Invincible ignorance is how Dennis rolls.

And our christian extremist advocates that whoremongering and lying is acceptable to those who live with their head stuck up trumps old tat white ass......Yeah Ignorance thy name is Scott McPhee!!!!

C.H. Truth said...

Well Denny,

The source is the NYT, but if you and I want to make the agreement moving forward to not believe anything they ever state again, I would be up for that.

I was just pointing out to Roger, that my theory about the dossier (which he called complete bullshit) is now being repeated by a source that you and him live by (NYTimes).

I suspect at the end of the day, the idea that the Steele Dossier was Russian misinformation will be the conventional wisdom.

wphamilton said...

I'm not going to argue with all of the absurd fantasizing that litters this blog. But I will point out that I was 100% correct that charging obstruction comes down to proving intent - and that you, Derschowitz and McCarthy were 100% wrong, at least according the legal framework that Mueller operated under.

The report shows clearly numerous, factually documented acts of obstruction committed by the President. Mueller cannot charge the President due to DOJ guidelines. You can pretend all that you want - and I know that you will - that I laid down stakes over Mueller frog-marching Trump out of the Oval Office but we all know that for a lie. The report demonstrates strong evidence of high crimes by the President, and the only question now is whether Congress has the will to pursue it.

Either way, you lose. Enough Americans see through the Trumpist BS that he's "exonerated" and that there is "no evidence" that Trump and his band of enablers are finished politically. Regardless of whether Congress fulfills its Constitutional obligation. But we all know, Coldheart, that it's only just begun.

C.H. Truth said...

I'm not going to argue with all of the absurd fantasizing that litters this blog. But I will point out that I was 100% correct that charging obstruction comes down to proving intent - and that you, Derschowitz and McCarthy were 100% wrong, at least according the legal framework that Mueller operated under.

Not sure how it is wrong.

The Attorney General, Deputy Attorney General, along with others within the Department of Justice disagreed as a matter of law that the list Mueller put together constituted obstruction.

Mueller himself (who is an inferior officer to Barr - as well as less qualified as a bona-fide fact to make the call) still never actually stated that he had a good enough understanding of the law or the facts to make a judgement call.



Either way, your Predictions of Trump's family and inner circle being arrested and frog marched out of the White House ended up being just as wrong as most of us reasonable logical people suggested it would be.

But even if you want to quickly "divert" attention from the fact you were wrong about collusion/conspiracy by screaming "obstruction" - there still is not a single recommendation from anyone with authority (Mueller, Rosenstein, Barr) that Trump "actually" committed obstruction.

That still remains just an opinion that was shot down by the very person with authority to shoot it down!

Commonsense said...

Invincible ignorance seems to be the debate style for all liberals nowadays.

Typically such people would never be taken seriously ever again. We live in strange times.